I'm done with BOM, HD and everything new ;D

[FairreLilette]

23 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

A very good point. Many users believe exactly that and the most creators strengthen this believe.

As far as BOM skins, yes one can try a skin on all bom-readied heads.  It doesn't have to be Catwa to Catwa or Genus to Genus, etc.  I tried BOM for awhile; I don't like it as much.  Fits can be random, a gamble or a problem.   I love SL and have been through many changes.  BOM and EEP, I'm not a fan of and worry about beginners with these two especially.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Nalates Urriah]

18 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

As far as BOM skins, yes one can try a skin on all bom-readied heads.  It doesn't have to be Catwa to Catwa or Genus to Genus, etc.  I tried BOM for awhile; I don't like it as much.  Fits can be random, a gamble or a problem.   I love SL and have been through many changes.  BOM and EEP, I'm not a fan of and worry about beginners with these two especially.  

EEP is an interesting change. I often use Windlight changes when taking photos in SL. The controls did change with the introduction of EEP. But not much. We did gain several new features and those required new controls. We can now change the textures used for the moon, sun, and more. None of those controls are anything a noob would not understand.

Prior to EEP exchanging WL Settings was complicated and had a steep learning curve. We had to trade XML files and one had to know how to work in the system files to install them. With EEP that all went away. We can trade an environment setting, permissions permitting, as easily as we share images in inventory. And we can sell those settings assets in the MP.

Prior to EEP changing WL was a bit complicated. EEP provides a much simple way by allowing right-click on any WL/EEP setting in inventory.

So while we gained more controls to deal with we also gained easier ways to work with the environment. Over all I think it got much simpler for noobies.

BOM is another change but one that is way misunderstood by those coming into SL during the Applier Era. Appliers have long been a part of SL. They are simply a way to control texture changes via scripts. To deal with changing skin and makeup the designers had to learn scripting. Those scripts require some learning and awareness of how scripts work in SL. Without that knowledge it is common for noobs to write scripts for appliers that easy break or make the textures easy to steal.

Prior to mesh bodies we had a simple way to make skins, tats, underwear/langerie, clothes, and pants... by using system layers. No scripting needed. But, system layers could only be used with the avatar not mesh. Anyone with little learning could make skin, clothes, etc. All they needed was Robin Woods templates and GIMP.

With the addition of mesh things got complicated. One had to understand 3D modeling and scripting to build appliers for skin, tats, etc. and figure out how get their creations to work with the various bodies.Thus the need for Omega.

BOM extended Server Side Baking (SSB) to work with mesh. Now we can wear skin, tats, underwear, and etc. made using the much simpler system layers and not have to script appliers. You probably know people use their old stuff made pre-mesh/appliers with there new BOM bodies. We went back to an older simpler way of doing things.

At the time appliers were becoming a thing, we had no choice. Residents learned to work the system and figure out ways to make what was easy with system layers and the avatar work with mesh bodies. We got high ACI onion skin bodies and scripted appliers. The Lindens simplified the system making high ACI onion skin bodies appliers unnecessary. We know have the old easy way of doing things back. So, noobies will have an easier time.

And there are those of us that still like some of our appliers. But for noobs, the learning has returned to more of a ramp than stairs. The system is now simpler for the new. HOWEVER, because there are so many that do not understand EEP and BOM the new are often WAY misinformed and confused by what they are told. I see no easy way to fix that.

[Marianne Little]

I have always thought that BoM is simpler than appliers. Avatars from the Applier era get the impression that it is super complicated.

The only thing with layers, is that the inventory grow faster. With an applier, all the options was on the screen. But on the other side... most my lipsticks and such are HD and only an applier. For BoM lipsticks, it can be a long list of layers, and often without understandable names. Like ::enc1::, ::enc2::, ::enc3:: and so on.

I don't know how to explain it easy. I have tried to say that the applier skins are blocking the default avatar and only allow the appliers over, while BoM skins act like a canvas to use both appliers and multiple layers on.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Marianne Little
added a word

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I have always thought that BoM is simpler than appliers. Avatars from the Applier era get the impression that it is super complicated.

   I think this is something that, in time, will go away. Just like people got the impressions that appliers were difficult when mesh bodies first came, it's something we got used to. I still remembered how to use system layers from the old days, so for me BoM was pretty easy to understand once I was just told what exactly it meant. And once people in general get used to it, new people should find it easier to get help.

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

EEP is an interesting change. I often use Windlight changes when taking photos in SL. The controls did change with the introduction of EEP. But not much. We did gain several new features and those required new controls. We can now change the textures used for the moon, sun, and more. None of those controls are anything a noob would not understand.

Prior to EEP exchanging WL Settings was complicated and had a steep learning curve. We had to trade XML files and one had to know how to work in the system files to install them. With EEP that all went away. We can trade an environment setting, permissions permitting, as easily as we share images in inventory. And we can sell those settings assets in the MP.

Yeah, without derailing about EEP.  I am going to have to try it soon but I would prefer it be an option.

My first experience with EEP was horrid and I lost my home because of texture thrashing or something.  I'm not sure, but I had to take things out slowly to see what was going AND FS support inworld I could not get a message through in local chat - it went down so I had to spend a frantic week trying to hopefully figure out what the heck was going on.  But, I didn't have the heart to build the home back again after it seemed stated the initial texture thrashing or whatever it was was fixed.  Plus, I thought it was way weird finding and working the controls.  So, I've wondered about newbies here.  

Also, we had a thread about 8 months or so ago about which light people use and the vast majority was MIDDAY.  Most people, and oldies too, don't mess with WL from what I learned from that thread.  But, now you say it might be easier for them.   Last I heard it will be necessary to change to EEP but after my experience, I'm dreading it, and still wish it would be optional not mandatory.  

7 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

At the time appliers were becoming a thing, we had no choice. Residents learned to work the system and figure out ways to make what was easy with system layers and the avatar work with mesh bodies. 

I know about "the applier generation"...I'm one of them, as far as mesh avatars.  Once I got the relay though, I was up and running great, no stopping me now and it's so easy.  

But, I really have had skins that just don't quite fit - the most difficult one is Lelutka's Origins though as the OP has, and Izzie's nose and lip fix did not work to solve my problems on my Origins head.  I'm a bit of an odd-ball though I'd guess because I am not always human and when I am "human" it's more a hybrid maybe like a fairy-human, elf-human or mermaid-human, etc.  Being human all the time, I could understand the thinking towards make-up and BOM might be different than mine.  

But, I can't see it being good for newbies, in local help chats, to be copy and pasted walls of text.  I'd be put off by that as too complicated and I'd look at the wall of text regarding BOM like...wha?.  0.o  This is my concern.  However, this does not included Skell and his blogs.  Blogs are one.  Copy and pasting walls of text to newbies sounds like not a good idea as Doc said he's seen in local help chats.  It's all in a desire to learn though, but time is needed too.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, without derailing about EEP.  I am going to have to try it soon but I would prefer it be an option.

My first experience with EEP was horrid and I lost my home because of texture thrashing or something.  I'm not sure, but I had to take things out slowly to see what was going AND FS support inworld I could not get a message through in local chat - it went down so I had to spend a frantic week trying to hopefully figure out what the heck was going on.  But, I didn't have the heart to build the home back again after it seemed stated the initial texture thrashing or whatever it was was fixed.  Plus, I thought it was way weird finding and working the controls.  So, I've wondered about newbies here.  

Also, we had a thread about 8 months or so ago about which light people use and the vast majority was MIDDAY.  Most people, and oldies too, don't mess with WL from what I learned from that thread.  But, now you say it might be easier for them.   Last I heard it will be necessary to change to EEP but after my experience, I'm dreading it, and still wish it would be optional not mandatory.  

I know about "the applier generation"...I'm one of them, as far as mesh avatars.  Once I got the relay though, I was up and running great, no stopping me now and it's so easy.  

But, I really have had skins that just don't quite fit - the most difficult one is Lelutka's Origins though as the OP has, and Izzie's nose and lip fix did not work to solve my problems on my Origins head.  I'm a bit of an odd-ball though I'd guess because I am not always human and when I am "human" it's more a hybrid maybe like a fairy-human, elf-human or mermaid-human, etc.  Being human all the time, I could understand the thinking towards make-up and BOM might be different than mine.  

But, I can't see it being good for newbies, in local help chats, to be copy and pasted walls of text.  I'd be put off by that as too complicated and I'd look at the wall of text regarding BOM like...wha?.  0.o  This is my concern.  However, this does not included Skell and his blogs.  Blogs are one.  Copy and pasting walls of text to newbies sounds like not a good idea as Doc said he's seen in local help chats.  It's all in a desire to learn though, but time is needed too.

The ease for new people and BOM is that in actuality, they can purchase a new skin now and wear it even without buying any mesh body parts.  Can't do that with applier skins OR makeup.  It won't exactly look like the picture nor fit exactly in all.areas but it's probably a heck of a lot better than some of the old skins they pick up.

Then, if and when they decided to upgrade, it will be even easier.  Simply wear your new body, head or both with no alpha, turn on BOM, done!

[FairreLilette]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

  Simply wear your new body, head or both with no alpha, turn on BOM, done!

I can see that.  Finding that BOM button is somewhat like finding that relay for appliers.  The complications come in elsewhere then...folders perhaps to make outfits or what I'm not sure?  And, then the problems with the Origins line though.  This is a problem.  I wear applier skins with my AIDA origins.  I've spent money like the OP thinking it was fixable.  It wasn't fixable though, not even with Izzie's stuff.  But, the other thing is I'm not disappointed with the applier skin for Aida, a origins head.  

Edited March 23, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

I can see that.  Finding that BOM button is somewhat like finding that relay for appliers.  The complications come in elsewhere then...folders perhaps to make outfits or what I'm not sure?  And, then the problems with the Origins line though.  This is a problem.  I wear applier skins with my AIDA origins.  I've spent money like the OP thinking it was fixable.  It wasn't fixable though, not even with Izzie's stuff.

Well, new people don't need to learn it all in a day and simply asking someone where the BOM button isn't hard.  If we're just talking new people, I'm sure to start, they won't be all that fussy about a little something off here or there.  I wore a skin for over a year that had a small imperfection on the cheek.  Didn't really bother me since I'm seldom staring that closely or search for things my that are wrong.  

Old skins/BOM are what we're born with in SL. If anything, appliers are the more difficult process to explain.  What we see in the forums more often is people who know appliers and don't grasp the concept of BOM.  "What?  No alpha?  Omg!"

[FairreLilette]

48 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

"What?  No alpha?  Omg!"

Yeah, that is part two.  First, it's locate all the BOM buttons and then take off the alpha as step two that needs to be remembered.  But, with different heads there are some issues with the eyes.  I had to ask for help about the eyes with a few heads in the inworld groups, so eyes could be step 3 confusion.  But, right now...I'm happy where I'm at except for my Dinkie in that Dinkie's never had alpha and we'd like to layer too...so BOM bodysuits or tops under jackets sounds great but my Dinkie mod that I love is NOT BOM up-date-able as it stands now.  The main Dinkie cat avatars are BOM updated though.  So, I am currently a BOM drop-out.  I love my Dinkie mod and prefer it right now over being able to wear tops underneath.  We cannot always have everything, I say to myself.  But, aside from all this, when it comes to the Origins heads, I know how the OP feels.  

 

8 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

For BoM lipsticks, it can be a long list of layers, and often without understandable names. Like ::enc1::, ::enc2::, ::enc3:: and so on.

I understand this too.  Many textures I buy come with no-name names such as 1, 2, 3 etc but at least with textures, since they are full perm, I can rename them.  If make-ups are sold in a pack, I don't see why they cannot be copy and modify since one buys the whole pack.

[Irina Forwzy]

Honestly, I think neither appliers nor BOM is a complex process.  For both you have to search your inventory, for one you have to right-click and add, for the other you right-click and add, and lastly then press the button to apply the layer. It's just one click extra.  That being said, there are individuals that just putting on clothes is a hassle, so you can't expect them to like either of these methods.  

Personally, I prefer BOM. Why?  Because I can layer several different effects on my skin to add freckles, veins, imperfections, blush,  highlight, and if I want then I can go for HD eyeshadow/lipstick.  And sometimes it's nice to wear my old Tres Blah and FD skin just to troll.

[Cougar Sangria]

2010 was my rezz year.  I remember when appliers came out and I struggled at first.  But I got the hang of it.  When it clicked that BOM is just system layers, more or less, for mesh bodies I had no issue whatsoever.  I use a combination of appliers and BOM for face makeup, and strictly BOM for body.  I wear no tattoos, freckles, etc on my body.  I rarely wear system clothing.  I keep saying I am going to pull out my heirloom clothing but have to get around to it.  I did try some of my old makeups and skins and said to myself "Oh hell no!" , and I've said before I have spent a small fortune outfitting my avatar with applier makeup and I like what I am using.  Until such time that creators give us the option to modify what they offer us I am not looking any further.  I am such a control freak.  No HD for me, not at this time.  I like my Catwa Catya head far too much to switch.  For me, any new head I have tried pales in comparison.