Encroachment Question

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 hour ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

Didn't know that, gotta go try it.

It's very useful for this sort of situation, to make sure there is no encroaching, because the boundary lines become tall yellow walls instead of the little yellow line we usually see.

It's also very helpful when dealing with water parcels (or partial water parcels), where you can't see the usual border line unless you put on a snorkel and go down there for a look. 

[Lucia Nightfire]

Encroachment return relies on whether the bounding box of any individual link encroaches over a parcel line, not physics shape nor visible vertices.

[Rabid Cheetah]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

You can also use gth (go to height)   and use whatever height you want to go to..in local chat....gth1000 and the replay in local that will rez a platform.  I always set the platform size small first as it defaults to a larger size than I usually need.  Those are in the preferences/chat/Cmd line tab.

Rez a platform (rezplat): Assuming the avatar has build privileges in the parcel, this command rezzes a circular platform of the given diameter beneath the avatar. Example: “rezplat 25” rezzes a 25m diameter platform below the avatar.

Teleport to altitude (gth): Teleport to the specified height. Example: “gth 2800” teleports to a height of 2800 meters. It is also possible to teleport higher. Example: “gth 6500” teleports to 6500m above the region.

Thanks, yeah, I've seen those codes before, but THIS time made sure to save them to a file in Notepad.  The only one I can remember from the last time I saw such a list is "Teleport Home"/tph -- I use that quite frequently.

 

[Dorian Meredith]

So I was lucky enough that the creator of said offending tree was sweet and sent me a copy of the tree with a prim showing the actual bounding box around it ( boy was it big btw ).  Using that I was able to pull my trees back to where it can no longer be returned.  Thanks for the help and advice guys, this was certainly a learning experience for me.  And FYI, its not the physics model, and its not the actual object, as a previous responder here said its the invisible BOUNDING BOX around the object which to my knowledge has no effect on anyone or anything, except people who want to exploit glitches to be rude to their neighbours.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Dorian Meredith

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Encroachment return relies on whether the bounding box of any individual link encroaches over a parcel line, not physics shape nor visible vertices.

Is there any way to see the bounding box? 

It seems like that would be very important in preventing encroachment issues.

[Pussycat Catnap]

That tree looks like a sculpty.

Sculpty objects are often VASTLY LARGER than they appear. Sometimes 2-3 times larger. Sometimes this includes the physics and sometimes it doesn't. So just because a sculpty appears to be in your house, the actual bounds of the object might be all the way into the other side of the neighbor's land.

Avoid sculpties.

 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Is there any way to see the bounding box? 

Maybe. There's Develop / Render Metadata / Bounding Boxes, but that seems to show the bounds oriented to world axes (except attachments?) instead of the local (root prim's) axes. I presume the latter must be the bounding box that determines encroachment -- and is the only way I know to interpret results of the llGetBoundingBox() function.

One could use that function to scale a linked "bounding box" cuboid rotated to match the object root, but that should be equivalent to zeroing the object's rotation and that of a linked zero-rotation "bounding box" and scaling it to match the Render Metadata "bounding box", then rotating the linked assembly as desired.

Part of the confusion with physics shape here may be because encroachment is calculated by the Havok physics engine for efficiency, but that wouldn't necessarily limit the calculation to physics shapes.

[ETA: Whoa. I just realized what it means for encroachment to be determined by an object's bounding box. That's not the union of the theoretical bounding boxes of the object's component links, but rather the minimal box to surround all the component links in a single box. Now imagine you have a concave parcel boundary (some zigzag edges, say) and you've linked some landscaping across your "zigs"; those linked objects will almost always encroach on the neighbor's "zags" even though there was no encroachment before linking. That sucks -- especially in Bay City.]

Edited March 8, 2021 by Qie Niangao

[Kyrie Deka]

1 hour ago, Dorian Meredith said:

as a previous responder here said its the invisible BOUNDING BOX around the object which to my knowledge has no effect on anyone or anything, except people who want to exploit glitches to be rude to their neighbours.

 

I wanted myself to be clear on this also.  Is this one of those beautiful cherry blossom trees or the like?   I always loved those!  I suspect the bounding box around those kind of trees might impact the neighbors as the cherry blossoms when turned on travel over the property line.  I remember seeing auto-return on many a cherry blossom in my early days, until I understood things a bit more.  If that's what is used here, then those floaty blossoms can affect neighbors and a neighbor returning an object with a bounding box over it, or even their having a right to "return" anything on their own parcel that the system gives them control of, might be understood.  Wishing you fun!

 

 

[Dorian Meredith]

So the bounding box on the tree I put up in my picture is about another 2 meters farther out than any visible part of the tree.  Its just a big cube so that if you rotate the tree at all at the edge of your property you're probably cutting into the other guy's parcel.  I could not find any way to have seen this box except to have the creator send me a tree with a prim attached to represent it.  Even when the tree is not set to phantom, you will still not be impeded by this invisible box, unless the person made the physics model just as big as said box.

The tree in question comes from Happy Moods, I'm not in world at the moment to give you the exact name.  There were no particle effects running and other than the invisible bounding box there was no part of it within 2m of my parcel edge and he was still able to return it.

On a funny note, I had long ago perma derendered everything on his parcel because I didn't like the way it looked.  After all this nonsense my partner pointed out to me today that objects from the bylaw thumping neighbour's parcel are actually encroaching on to ours in the same manner.  I can't begin to tell you the satisfaction I felt as he named off the pieces he was returning.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Y'all have some real Hatfields and McCoys action brewing over there.

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Dorian Meredith said:

After all this nonsense my partner pointed out to me today that objects from the bylaw thumping neighbour's parcel are actually encroaching on to ours in the same manner.  I can't begin to tell you the satisfaction I felt as he named off the pieces he was returning.

Tit for tat seldom ever ends well.

[Kyrie Deka]

One learns to really appreciate respectful, communicative, mannerly, civil neighbors, and give a bit here and there until someone moves at the very least.  Flies with honey first, silence and patience second, moving and forget-ya-quickly third.  Hope it works out quickly for ya'll!

[Rabid Cheetah]

Remind me what a "bounding box" is again?

[Kyrie Deka]

Just the first one I found, an old discussion.  What is a bounding box? - Mesh - Second Life Community

[Rowan Amore]

They are HPMD trees and they've always been like this.   

[Zero Starchild]

Living alot on mainland I have also encountered this situation with a tree in the center of my land. First time it got returned I asked neighbour directly and friendly what it was sticking out and he stood there and helped my roatate the tree until the branches cleared the boundry. It was easy, co=operative and we ended up allowing each others trees to overlap to look good overall for both our lands. Sometimes that is all it takes, instead of stewing and trying to get revenge!

[Crim Mip]

It's best to try to be nice about it, but I've had times when I either got a rude response or no response within a few days. At that point any and everything sticking over gets returned with no explanation or warning. So sorry if you linked your entire build. Next time be more careful.

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 3/8/2021 at 11:03 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Tit for tat seldom ever ends well.

True.

Although, as someone who tires very hard to make sure I'm using good quality stuff, I actually appreciate when a neighbor returns some of my stuff on me. It tells me the item was not made to the standards I had thought and wanted it to be made to.

 

My first land in SL, I was on this wonderful region that as I stayed there started to get more and more laggy, eventually being so extreme I felt like I was walking through thick soup.

I recall ranting all the time that there must be some total jerk living around here somewhere rezzing laggy junk just to ruin it all for the rest of us. I really wanted to know who that absolute jerk was and tell them what for and put up all kinds of nasty banlines and signs, and abuse reports about them and so on...

 

One day I took the trees in my garden back into inventory for some reason, and ZAP. All the lag was gone in an instant and I was seeing 'action gamer FPS' responsiveness.

I quietly noted who that jerk had been all along and decided I would switch brands on garden items...

Years later when the ability to return things on other people's land that was encroaching you was added, I took out one of those trees again to look at it's bounding box - that sucker was maybe 2-3 times bigger than it looked on screen... Yeah... It not only went over my neighbors plot, it would have been going all the way through and into the next neighbor after them - and I had never noticed that.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Pussycat Catnap

[Zero Starchild]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:19 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

True.

Although, as someone who tires very hard to make sure I'm using good quality stuff, I actually appreciate when a neighbor returns some of my stuff on me. It tells me the item was not made to the standards I had thought and wanted it to be made to.

 

My first land in SL, I was on this wonderful region that as I stayed there started to get more and more laggy, eventually being so extreme I felt like I was walking through thick soup.

I recall ranting all the time that there must be some total jerk living around here somewhere rezzing laggy junk just to ruin it all for the rest of us. I really wanted to know who that absolute jerk was and tell them what for and put up all kinds of nasty banlines and signs, and abuse reports about them and so on...

 

One day I took the trees in my garden back into inventory for some reason, and ZAP. All the lag was gone in an instant and I was seeing 'action gamer FPS' responsiveness.

I quietly noted who that jerk had been all along and decided I would switch brands on garden items...

Years later when the ability to return things on other people's land that was encroaching you was added, I took out one of those trees again to look at it's bounding box - that sucker was maybe 2-3 times bigger than it looked on screen... Yeah... It not only went over my neighbors plot, it would have been going all the way through and into the next neighbor after them - and I had never noticed that.

 

Just out of curiostity what brand of trees were these? I am wondering if this is my same problem?

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

Just out of curiostity what brand of trees were these? I am wondering if this is my same problem?

It was a '1-prim only' sculpty brand and that was 2009.

That noted, I have seen people regularly recommend the brand in the Bellisseria homes forums. But it's been 12 years, and while I looked to confirm that they are still using sculpties at that store. I'd have to dig again to refind the name.

That said, I often read people complain about lag in Bellisseria, and I have no lag there... so... I suspect people using these trees and/or the Legacy body are blaming the regions instead.

While it is possible to have extremely laggy mesh. As in 'viewer crashing mesh'... it is not required. But Sculpty is almost always bad - albeit to varying degrees depending. Mesh is like the extreme ends of the spectrum - really good or really bad. Sculpty is closer to the middle of the 'bell curve' but slightly leaning to the bad side.

 

While I can't recall the name of the bad trees off-hand, I CAN recall the names of some good brands because they're sitting on my land right now:

[ddd] - they mostly make low land impact 'fantasy themed' mesh, but they also have some plants and trees and these have been staples on my land for years now because they give me no issues. This is probably the lowest lag stuff I have.

Horizons land owner kit - yeah, this is a mole kit for anyone who gets land on Horizons, the precursor to Bellisseria. I used to have land there, and I kept the pack and use some of the trees on my mainland now.

Lightstar - this is a Sculpty brand. But it's never given my FPS issues, so I still use one tree from them because it's a giant 42m tall redwood. Noting them just to note that while most sculpty is bad, every now and them someone does it well.

LOVE by krystali rabeni - the swamp kit on my Bellisseria land is by this brand, and I use some more normal trees on my mainland plot. This maybe ties [DDD] for low lag, but uses a little more land impact, yet also has a little more variety.

LAQ Decor - they has some 'fir trees'. These are a little more 'resource intense than the above stuff, but still in the realm of good.