Child Avatars and Adult Regions

[CJ Ravenhurst]

I went looking into Linden Lab TOS and had a hard time finding what they define as child avatar completely or if that is up to owner of parcel or sim to determine that. I am trying to find exact wording on what child avatar determiners such as physical appearance, actions, groups in profile. I am an estate manager for a Sim and was asked to look into this matter since the sim I manage is adult region and the owners want to stay within Linden Lab TOS.  And this inquiry is in regards to all species in SL, since some species are naturally small size in stature.  I tried to locate the live chat on my dashboard to talk to a Linden about this but was not able to locate that option on my dashboard and I am a Premium account. Anyway if I can get any legit, actual factual responses to this that would be awesome. I am looking for solid facts not opinions on this inquiry.  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. 

[Marigold Devin]

1 minute ago, CharylieSilver said:

I went looking into Linden Lab TOS and had a hard time finding what they define as child avatar completely or if that is up to owner of parcel or sim to determine that. I am trying to find exact wording on what child avatar determiners such as physical appearance, actions, groups in profile. I am an estate manager for a Sim and was asked to look into this matter since the sim I manage is adult region and the owners want to stay within Linden Lab TOS.  And this inquiry is in regards to all species in SL, since some species are naturally small size in stature.  I tried to locate the live chat on my dashboard to talk to a Linden about this but was not able to locate that option on my dashboard and I am a Premium account. Anyway if I can get any legit, actual factual responses to this that would be awesome. I am looking for solid facts not opinions on this inquiry.  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. 

 

You are asking a question on a forum, you are more likely to get opinions. The only facts you will find regarding this issue is in the Community Standards/Terms of Service that we all have to agree on before entering Second Life, and as you can see, they are not specific.

Live Chat is only there for technical issues, not for abuse reporting issues.

If YOU feel something is in breach of Terms of Service, you have to submit an abuse report via the help option in your viewer's menus. Then it is up to Linden Lab themselves to take the appropriate action.  

As an estate manager, YOU can of course decide who stays and who goes. Your land, your rules. 

 

[Cindy Evanier]

14 minutes ago, CharylieSilver said:

I tried to locate the live chat on my dashboard to talk to a Linden about this but was not able to locate that option on my dashboard and I am a Premium account.

From the dashboard - Help - Support - Contact Support... but as Marigold says, they will likely just refer you to the TOS

Child avatars are allowed on adult regions but not if there are adult things happening or available for them to use such as adult furniture

[Alwin Alcott]

15 minutes ago, CharylieSilver said:

I went looking into Linden Lab TOS and had a hard time finding what they define as child avatar completely or if that is up to owner of parcel or sim to determine that. I am trying to find exact wording on what child avatar determiners such as physical appearance, actions, groups in profile. I am an estate manager for a Sim and was asked to look into this matter since the sim I manage is adult region and the owners want to stay within Linden Lab TOS.  And this inquiry is in regards to all species in SL, since some species are naturally small size in stature.  I tried to locate the live chat on my dashboard to talk to a Linden about this but was not able to locate that option on my dashboard and I am a Premium account. Anyway if I can get any legit, actual factual responses to this that would be awesome. I am looking for solid facts not opinions on this inquiry.  Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. 

child avatars or underaged looking avatars áre allowed to enter adult regions. They are nót allowed to be near or engage in adult activities.

Underaged players are a different thing
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Teens_in_Second_Life

[Lyssa Greymoon]

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

Quote

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide, including whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as *****, we request you err on the side of caution and desist. Please note that some countries' laws may impose penalties for graphics, drawings, or anime that resemble child pornography, even where no children have been involved.

There isn't a clear cut definition, but they give you guidelines and if you're in doubt, kick 'em out.

[Odaks]

@Lyssa Greymoon's quote comes from discussion following this clarification:-

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

I strongly suggest you note the following important aspects:-

Participation by Residents in lewd or sexual acts in which one or more of the avatars appears to represent minors .....is straightforward enough, once you have decided what appears to be a child avatar.

 Promoting or catering to such behavior..............if you are in any way responsible for management of the parcel concerned, I believe that you might potentially fall foul of this if you don't take steps to make sure it can't happen. Depending which country you are from, you may find that RL laws are more concerned about this than LL's ToS.

The graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner.......The possibility that some wag might find it amusing to post, publicly on the internet, an image of a child avatar looking on at an "adult activity" , that they just happened to stumble across while exploring, leaves me very worried indeed. There are people out there  that might find this amusing.

Tread very carefully!

[CJ Ravenhurst]

Thanks for the responses and no worries on the tread carefully. We don't promote or cater to kid avatars on the sim period and we are trying to prevent any kid avatars from being on the sim, staff needed to know what factors to use to determine if the avatars were kids especially when it is furry forms involved since we cater to all species in SL and I know different species have different sizes and so on. We are just trying to actively prevent issues from happening. 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

41 minutes ago, CharylieSilver said:

Thanks for the responses and no worries on the tread carefully. We don't promote or cater to kid avatars on the sim period and we are trying to prevent any kid avatars from being on the sim, staff needed to know what factors to use to determine if the avatars were kids especially when it is furry forms involved since we cater to all species in SL and I know different species have different sizes and so on. We are just trying to actively prevent issues from happening. 

 

It's your call, Charylie (and your staff's).

If your region contains a lot of Adult content (Sex clubs, escort services, strip joints, BDSM, porn, etc. etc.) then you probably want to "prevent any kid avatars from being on the sim".  This is in contrast to a region that merely has an "A" rating.  There are lots of Adult regions that don't look like a red light district, and it would be perfectly acceptable for child avatars to be there.

As far as that goes, the ToS doesn't actually prohibit child avatars from being in an Adult region that looks like a red light district, as long as they themselves do not participate in the Adult activities, or look like they are soliciting sexual activities.  But that is edging very close to the line where someone may decide to file a report.

You will never get in trouble for ejecting and banning anyone from your land, for any reason (or even for no reason at all!), although you may wind up with some irate ex-customers.  So a lot of land owners will err on the side of caution.

[brodiac90]

Child avatars are allowed on A rated land. 

You could have a brothel out in a red light district and so long as the child avatar does not engage in adult activities (sex) then technically that is in line with TOS. 

Most if not all child avatars will avoid such places like the plague, and equally estate managers of such places don't allow child avis. 

Where it becomes frustrating is when people blanket ban kid avis from A land because they don't understand TOS. 

If you just don't want kids around then fair enough .... it's your land. It's the misinformation that annoys me. 

 

 

 

[Polenth Yue]

There are only facts for human avatars. If they look like a human child, they are a child. They can't roleplay a thousand year old vampire or anything like that. Looks are all that matter for human (and similar) children.

Nothing is officially stated for non-humans, so the rest will be my opinion as a small mushroom, as I don't want to be banned whenever I take part in a hunt. My suggestion is that if the avatar is not human and doesn't seem to be taking part in anything adult (for example, they are clearly there for a hunt or shopping) you don't worry about it. If they do something that would get a child banned, ask them directly if they are a child.

I get that there are concerns. You don't know if the slime blob avatar has a dummy because they're a baby or because they just ate a baby. However, you're not going to be able to come up with a list of set rules for it... you're going to have to look at what's in front of you, ask them, and make your best judgement.

Just don't start banning people randomly for being short and cute. There was a trend of banning all short avatars for a bit and it was very silly.

[CJ Ravenhurst]

Polenth, as a shape shifter in SL I am aware of the various types of avatars including short ones and trust me I do understand various species and such have different sizes and heights...my main concern is staying in LL tos on the sim and not having no troubles. Our staff on the sim I manage is well aware of the variety and no bans happen without just cause but we also do not want to get into trouble with Linden Labs for anything either which is why I been working to figure out how to classify things in order to prevent any issues from happening that breaks rules yet stays fair to all forms of life in SL.  

[CJ Ravenhurst]

and also if you look for me inworld it won't be under this name, ironically, my name change has not hit the community secondlife on change yet. .. my SL actual name is CJ Dallas. It's just one of them things as to why the name has not updated to the new one I have no idea. 

 

[FairreLilette]

Hello Charylie,

I am a Dinkie in SL some of the time.   Dinkie's are a tiny cat avatar that walks upright and has human characteristics, kind of like Mickey Mouse is a mouse but wears clothes and talks, kind of like that.

Dinkie's are part of what is generally referred to as "tinies".  Tinies are all different kinds of animal avatars with human characteristics but are small in size, thus the name "tiny".  Tinies generally are about the size of human mesh avatar's calf or smaller.   There are other unique tiny avatars such as dancing flower avatars or Polenth as a mushroom in this thread, but most are in the "tiny" range because that is why we have the name tinies.

I belong to a group of sims that mostly are for us tinies; however, there are sims that in their description may say "tiny-friendly".  When a sim says it's tiny-friendly, it means us tiny animal with human soul avatars, not human child avatars.  However, some sims are tiny-friendly and family-friendly so child avatars could be allowed there, and those are rarely Adult-rated or never that I've seen.  

Most of our events are G to PG-friendly and guests are asked to act accordingly as G and PG is NOT Adult.   We have General events because people may have kids at home in real life who could see the computer screen, so there are rules of respect for the parents or grand-parents on G sims.  

I don't go to many Adult places nor events as a tiny.  I went twice and simply don't like it.  They don't mix well for me.  Most tinies are on G to PG.  We like to be tinies because the Dinkie's dance about as cute as Shirley Temple and are just adorable as are the other tinies but we also love our lag-free SL existence.

As far as my being a Dinkie, I mostly go to tiny related sims where other tinies are.  I go to one club once in a blue, a very famous club in SL for humans, and they don't mind my being there once in awhile.  I think the guests think I am a dancing animesh thing anyways which a lot of clubs have.  So, it really depends on the sim.

As far as child avatars, I think what other's are saying in this thread, don't have anything Adult rated.  You need to decide what you clientele is and then rate and design your land accordingly.

If you are indeed asking about us tinies who are animals with human characteristics plus other non-human tiny avatars, you simply put "tiny-friendly" in your description as again tinies are not child avatars.  

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Polenth Yue]

1 hour ago, CharylieSilver said:

Polenth, as a shape shifter in SL I am aware of the various types of avatars including short ones and trust me I do understand various species and such have different sizes and heights...my main concern is staying in LL tos on the sim and not having no troubles. Our staff on the sim I manage is well aware of the variety and no bans happen without just cause but we also do not want to get into trouble with Linden Labs for anything either which is why I been working to figure out how to classify things in order to prevent any issues from happening that breaks rules yet stays fair to all forms of life in SL.  

Keep in mind that virtual child activities are restricted as part of the protection of real children from harm. Real children are human. The greater the difference between an avatar and a human, and the harder it is to tell if they're intending to be a child, the more likely it is that you are not going to get in trouble for not knowing that avatar was a child after all.

Some furries are edge cases because they have human bodies with an animal head stuck on. But a child of that type of avatar is still likely to ping your looks-like-a-human-child senses, in a way that an avatar with a more animal-like body will not. It's looking like a human child that is the big thing here.

[Sister Nova]

2 hours ago, CharylieSilver said:

and also if you look for me inworld it won't be under this name, ironically, my name change has not hit the community secondlife on change yet. .. my SL actual name is CJ Dallas. It's just one of them things as to why the name has not updated to the new one I have no idea. 

 

I had the same problem, just log out of the forum and log back in again.

[CJ Ravenhurst]

Thank you for the responses everyone. My staff and I got it figured out to a workable thing.  And to further clear up what I had mentioned earlier, the sim I manage caters to all species in SecondLife but we are adult region, we do have adult items and stuff....the main focus was determining what qualifies any species as kid or cub avatar etc as in any avatar that would break LL tos by being on an adult sim with sexual items to prevent any LL tos breaking to happen on our estate by anyone. Due to the responses from here and the chat with livechat with a Linden Lab personnel over this, I got the answers needed to help me in this matter. Thank you for taking time time in responding to my inquiry.  Have a good weekend and stay safe.