SL Content and YouTube COPPA Compliance

[Jackson Redstar]

Not sure if there is any 'official' position from Linden Labs concerning COPPA and You Tube compliance - the primary issue for us as users of SL who make vdeos for YouTube would be will the FTC view SL as "animation" and "cartoon" content regardless of its intended audience? For those that are not aware, all YouTube creators must mark all content on their Chanel 'made for kids; or 'not made for kids' and starting in January 2020 the FTC will start sweeping all YouTube channels looking for compliance. That is, uninformed human moderators looking at content  to determine if it is geared towards kids. A violation can cost the content creator up to 42.000 per video - regardless of the fact the channel is monetized, the youtube analytics showing the average oge of the viewers = if the FTC determines the content is 'geared for kids' you will be in violation. 

For instance alot of us in SL make cutesy videos with our little prim  babies or even child avatars that are  our "children" or other videos with "children" in them , I for instance have some wedding videos that also have 'children' as flower girls or ring bearers and while of course a wedding video is directed to adults - how the FTC overlords will see this is unknown

Marking a channel or a individual video 'made for kids' means the video wont be searchable, comments are disabled, can't be added to playlists or favorites, and won't be counted in any youtube indexing

So I was wondering if Linden has any guidance on how the FTC might view Second Life (and by extension, Sansar) as a whole. I have actually written a comment to the FTC to ask for the FTCs view but i expect at most a generic answer
 

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

I'm only halfway kidding when I say the presence of the words "Second Life" in a video's title or description should be a strong argument that it is not intended for kids. Most of the YouTube videos on COPPA are just fearmongering clickbait that are based on the assumption that Baby Shark and Fritz the Cat are essentially the same thing and the FTC can't tell the difference. The FTC does know the difference, and we know that from what they've said and the complaint against YouTube. See pp. 10-14 for examples of the content that got YouTube into hot water: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/172_3083_youtube_revised_complaint.pdf . There is no question about the intended audience. These are videos explicitly directed at children.

After looking at what YouTube and the FTC have to say about it, I set my channel to "No, set this channel as not made for kids. I never upload content that's made for kids.", because it's accurate. 

[Syo Emerald]

13 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Most of the YouTube videos on COPPA are just fearmongering clickbait that are based on the assumption that Baby Shark and Fritz the Cat are essentially the same thing and the FTC can't tell the difference.

If a normal human with common sense would be deciding which videos are for kids and which aren't, then I would agree, but this is youtube. And youtube does what youtube does best: Providing an automated system with extremely vague descriptions on what is considered kids content/child appealing content. Some of those markers include animation and cartoon characters. Of course, if your video tips into the other direction and can't be considered "family friendly", then you are probably safe.

There are entire communites on youtube fearing the next year and rightfully so. Best example would be the art community. They make content for all ages and are not targeting children at all. Yet some creators have already seen the notion, that their videos are going to be labeled as if it was child content, simply because they include a few of the things, that youtube sees as indicator for child content (for example: bright colors, characters that are popular with kids, cartoon elements etc.). 

The FTC has no idea about the giant pool of videos on youtube. I do believe, they had good intentions, but youtube is treating its creators like garbage in recent years and is only concerned with securing their own butt, even if that means wiping out entire channels in an unmonitored process.

[Lindal Kidd]

Syo is spot on.  Google/YouTube is throwing its content creators under the bus.

If I had a lot of videos on YouTube, or was making content for money there, I would seriously consider leaving the platform.

[FairreLilette]

This is the first I'm hearing about it and it sounds like a stupid law.  

If YouTube were operating outside of the USA, then the COPPA law would not apply.  So, why don't they just move their operation...because of the U.S. stock market or what?   Google owns YouTube as far as I know.  Goog is a USA stock.  

Why do I think it's stupid...because they should have had a filter system in the first place like SL does.  I also think it's stupid because it's the adult-rated stuff that should have a rating and a filter you need to be allowed into, and this sounds like it's the other way around.  

But, I'm sure this will make the stock of Goog "crash" some what.

Edit to add:  Does what this COPPA law want to do is to be able to collect data on kids under age 13?  To me, that is a stupid law.  Kids are not very big consumers.  Google and YouTube rely mostly on their advertisers as their source of revenue...so this collection of data of those under age 13 would mostly be about consumerism.  Kids under age 13 just are not big consumers on their own.   I guess by kids clicking on the kids videos, it's more or less agreeing to allowing the website to collect data on your child.   *shakes head*  

Edited November 26, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Lyssa Greymoon]

YouTube is covering its butt by telling content creators to identify their own videos as made for kids or not. YouTube and the FTC have guidelines for people who don't know who they are making videos for. The FTC has a very good idea what's on YouTube and what they consider made for kids, that's obvious from the complaint. YouTube was egregiously violating COPPA, and it wasn't because of some grey area videos, or videos of incidental interest to children. Google was explicitly marketing YouTube as the new Saturday morning cartoons, are your videos Saturday morning cartoons? Look at YouTube kids, do you think your videos are going to end up there? If you search YouTube kids for "Second Life" what do you see? Not a whole lot of videos from SL, that's what.

[panterapolnocy]

Hmr... I wasn't as active as I'd like here in the last month or two due to some RL business, but Whirly poked me with the link to this topic and, well - some of this "business" was COPPA/FTC stuff related to my YouTube channel. Some may know, some may not, I record Second Life stuff myself for years now - mostly TPVD meetings, but not only that. My channel also does consist of many game-related videos - not that many views or subscriptions, but enough to think: I'd be dead in January because of FTC fines, or not. Here is what I've gathered so far in the topic myself... by any means do not treat this as a kind of legal advice. It's just a set of observations of mine. Everyone is responsible for him/herself.

First of all, some definitions. COPPA is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act focused on kids privacy, where kid is less that 13 years old. We all do agree that this is something we should keep safe, I think. YouTube ignored that for years, gathering info about kids' browsing the platform where it shouldn't do it, so FTC finally got "fed up" and told YT to do something about it, fining Google as well. YouTube however went a bit overboard with it ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JzXiSkoFKw ) and decided to divide movies without any middle ground, into "for kids" (with comments disabled - so no creeps - notification bell, extended Google Analytics tracking etc.) and "not for kids" - telling in short, that if you mark video as "not for kids" and FTC would find out that the intended audience was kids (or rather, "content in the movie would be appealing to kids", which may be anything really), you'll get fined 42k USD per video. And if you set movie as "for kids" and it won't be intended for kids, you'll get some repercussions as well for serving not safe content to kids. So, "find golden middle or die". After the initial week of panic and listening FTC decided to issue a document that would kind of clarify the vague and vast terminology that was used. Of course, channel owners are STILL responsible, not the platform itself, but they're listening to creators until - I think - 9th of December, still. Things may still change. And so, from https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2019/11/youtube-channel-owners-your-content-directed-children

Quote

The determination of whether content is child-directed will be clearer in some contexts than in others, but we can share some general rules of thumb. First, unless you’re affirmatively targeting kids, there are many subject matter categories where you don’t have to worry about COPPA. For example, if your videos are about traditionally adult activities like employment, finances, politics, home ownership, home improvement, or travel, you’re probably not covered unless your content is geared toward kids. The same would be true for videos aimed at high school or college students. On the other hand, if your content includes traditional children’s pastimes or activities, it may be child-directed. For example, the FTC recently determined that an online dress-up game was child-directed.

Second, just because your video has bright colors or animated characters doesn’t mean you’re automatically covered by COPPA. While many animated shows are directed to kids, the FTC recognizes there can be animated programming that appeals to everyone.

Third, the complaint in the YouTube case offers some examples of channels the FTC considered to be directed to children. For example, many content creators explicitly stated in the “About” section of their YouTube channel that their intended audience was children under 13. Other channels made similar statements in communications with YouTube. In addition, many of the channels featured popular animated children’s programs or showed kids playing with toys or participating in other child-oriented activities. Some of the channel owners also enabled settings that made their content appear when users searched for the names of popular toys or animated characters. Want to see the FTC’s analysis in context? Read pages 10-14 of the YouTube complaint.

Finally, if you’ve applied the factors listed in the COPPA Rule and still wonder if your content is “directed to children,” it might help to consider how others view your content and content similar to yours. Has your channel been reviewed on sites that evaluate content for kids? Is your channel – or channels like yours – mentioned in blogs for parents of young children or in media articles about child-directed content? Have you surveyed your users or is there other empirical evidence about the age of your audience?

(...)

The Rule allows for civil penalties of up to $42,530 per violation, but the FTC considers a number of factors in determining the appropriate amount, including a company’s financial condition and the impact a penalty could have on its ability to stay in business. While Google and YouTube paid $170 million, in another COPPA case settled this year, the operator paid a total civil penalty of $35,000.

Bolding is mine. So, first of all, if you don't deliberately aim content at children, even if it has animated content, there is a level of safety... probably. Also, 42k USD fine most probably won't be issued to everyone, plus - if you live outside USA - well, FTC probably don't have jurisdiction over you. YouTube may have, though. And Google.

What I've did to "protect" my channel the best I've could? I've just found time to review all my 1000+ movies along with some other things. Bulk updates in new YouTube Studio helped a lot; First of all, I've added "(...) channel is aimed at the older audience - teens (over 13 years old), at least, that can understand context of the videos. This channel is a hobbyist one and has interest-based (personalized) / remarketing ads and monetization completely disabled in settings, due to owner's personal decision." into my channel's "about" section and indeed, I've disabled (or rather, kept disabled) everything mentioned; also set channel as "not for kids". Then every non-SL game footage I have, I've checked against ESRB ratings database and put notes at the top of every description, I've also manually changed a lot of thumbnails - adding info on them. Then... I've went on a trip of rating my videos and clicking these for kids / not for kids checkboxes on each of them. Racing or platform games? For kids... Shooters? Not for kids...

... Second Life videos? Not intended or appealing for kids, for me at least. Every SL video's rating I've based on http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Teens_in_Second_Life which states clearly that "Second Life is generally for adults 18 years and older; however, if you are 13 years of age or older you can use Second Life with some restrictions" - so formally, there is no place for kids under 13 years old at all in SL. And I've put this in all of my SL recordings, and on dozen of thumbnails. Would this be enough?

I hope. Am I sure about that? No. Yet, I've did what I've could. I'll observe now, until the end of December, how the situation would develop.

Fun fact... the whole storm is about kids' presence on the platform, yet YouTube ToS ( https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms ) clearly states, that the user may use the "Service " if he/she is at least 13 years old. Hmm... would that probably mean that kids lied during registration about their age or they just venture over internet unsupervised, with parents throwing the responsibility from them to channel owners on YouTube, and FTC noticed that?... Naah, must be my imagination...

Few useful links, I guess; Some of them were published before FTC's clarification:

Quote

YouTube support:
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9527654

"The REAL Problem with FTC & COPPA Rules EXPLAINED – Viva Frei Vlawg":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHTQlM8zdA4

"Is my channel safe from the coming COPPA crackdown in January?"
https://yttalk.com/threads/is-my-channel-safe-from-the-coming-coppa-crackdown-in-january.292776/

"YouTube creators may also be held liable for COPPA violations, following FTC settlement":
https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/04/youtube-creators-may-also-be-held-liable-for-coppa-violations-following-ftc-settlement/

"YouTube’s new kids’ content system has creators scrambling":
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/13/20963459/youtube-google-coppa-ftc-fine-settlement-youtubers-new-rules

"YouTube’s next big change could penalize anyone who creates for kids":
https://thenextweb.com/google/2019/11/15/youtube-change-child-videos-ftc/

"What YOUTUBE's Not Telling You About COPPA" - laywer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwDrHOe43E

"Game Theory: Will Your Favorite Channel Survive 2020? (COPPA)":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd604xskDmU

"COPPA INSIDER Update!!! What MORE YouTube Is HIDING":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnvjuCTb54

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by panterapolnocy

[Syo Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

by telling content creators to identify their own videos as made for kids or not.

...and for the "wrong" decision, the creator can get fined (in the worst case) up to 42k. Nobody is going to take that risk.

3 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

YouTube and the FTC have guidelines for people who don't know who they are making videos for.

Which are (as I said) incredible wishy-washy and are very open for interpretation. And who is going to make that interpretation? Probably not a human, that the creator can actually talk to. Most creators do not aim for a target audiance based on age (some do, but not all). They have a topic they want to present...and their audiance can go from their youngest viewers being 6 to their oldest being 60. They do not aim to make entertainment for kids. Take my example with the art & crafts communtiy: After the whole COPPA thing got announced, creators started making videos about this, talking to their fans etc. and the comment section showed just how broad the ages ranged in their fan base. Now, youtube isn't going to care about that, because thats not really what the COPPA thing considers either...

11 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

and it wasn't because of some grey area videos, or videos of incidental interest to children. Google was explicitly marketing YouTube as the new Saturday morning cartoons, are your videos Saturday morning cartoons? Look at YouTube kids, do you think your videos are going to end up there?

The whole deal with COPPA can be summed up really quick: The problem is not with the creators, not with the videos. Youtube has two types of adds: Contextual and targeted adds. Contextual adds are adds based on a videos content. Just like adds on TV. A make up video will get make up add, a video about the perfect BBQ sauce will get an add about camping etc. And thats fine with COPPA! But its not as lucrative for companies (and therefore youtube), compared to targeted adds. Those adds use information gathered about your IP and your online activity. They see something like: "Oh, Lyssa lives there and she watches a lot of videos with cute kittens. Lets show her an add for a pet supply brand, that has stores in your county." And thats where the COPPA violation comes in, because apperently you aren't allowed to track kids online behavior, if they are under 13. And youtube made the mistake to be a tiny bit too open about them being fully aware that their platform is full of children. They made the mistake to advertise themselves to companies as being the most popular site for children between 8-12. Thats how they ended up with a fine of multiple milions.

Would have been fine being the new Saturday morning cartoons...if they didn't track their viewers. But now they will do everything to cover their butt, to avoid that the FTC thinks they are wiggeling themselves around the law again. And youtube is not going to rely on creators clicking that box, you can be sure about that. And that was why I mentioned their criteria is so fuzzy and why that is problematic and honestly...their past behavior doesn't really make me opptimistic either.

What happens when a video gets labeld as "for kids": Comment section disappears and gets turned off, adds vanish almost completely (at leat for now) and definitly drop in monetary value for the creator and also the notification function gets turned off. Thats terrible for creators.

I'm not making videos on youtube and I don't think all SL videos are in danger (or at least not the ones which are the most in danger), but I don't think that we can say, that this is all fine and going to turn out good, at least not at the moment.

[FairreLilette]

@panterapolnocy Yes, of course everybody would agree on protecting kids.  But, an adult rating would be better.

Your post is so involved, panterapolnocy, I don't have time to comment on it.

I wanted to say regarding this law, I think it is a way for YouTube to be able to put advertisements into the kids rated videos that are geared towards kids.

This COPPA law is about not allowing websites to collect data on those of the age 13 or under without a parent's consent.  But, if you don't rate it kids because your video may contain something for kids to be fined 42K is frankly nuts.   And, if you rate it kids, then it might likely not be seen by adults...is that what part of the problem is?  

Unbelievable and what a mess this is.  I love YouTube.  Maybe I won't love it so much anymore.  

[FairreLilette]

I also just wanted to say...I was wondering why some of the videos I was browsing recently had no comments.  I guess the person of that channel decided to allow the videos I was watching to be for kids...so comments were turned off.

The videos I was browsing and listening to recently were Celtic music videos, some traditional and some modern.  

I was wondering why comments were vanishing.  

I know now why.  Celtic music is considered for kids.  That's helpful to know.  (sarcasm here).  Much of Celtic music now cannot receive comments.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Drayke Newall]

16 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

I'm only halfway kidding when I say the presence of the words "Second Life" in a video's title or description should be a strong argument that it is not intended for kids. Most of the YouTube videos on COPPA are just fearmongering clickbait that are based on the assumption that Baby Shark and Fritz the Cat are essentially the same thing and the FTC can't tell the difference. The FTC does know the difference, and we know that from what they've said and the complaint against YouTube. See pp. 10-14 for examples of the content that got YouTube into hot water: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/172_3083_youtube_revised_complaint.pdf . There is no question about the intended audience. These are videos explicitly directed at children.

After looking at what YouTube and the FTC have to say about it, I set my channel to "No, set this channel as not made for kids. I never upload content that's made for kids.", because it's accurate. 

When youtube/Google's response to people asking the question of how do they know if their content is kid's friendly and wont incur a fine is "Consult your lawyer" I would say it deserves a little fearmongering. 😉

[Jackson Redstar]

I think it is easy to say "let's hope the FTC doesn't see SL videos as kids content" but with the fines and penalties the FTC is proposing, would be nice if "hope" were more defined. It's true that the FTC would likely only go after the big fish - creators that are truly trying to skirt the law, and while SL has age restrictions itself, certainly there are ALOT of sl content with prim babies or adults who play very young children for family role playing, etc..

Im not expecting it to be an issue with the content I make, but again we will also be dealing with a government oversight board, and we all know what happens when a government agency tries to make an example of something....

[Lyssa Greymoon]

“I wanna watch Second Life wedding videos instead of Teen Titans Go!” said no kid ever.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2019/11/youtube-channel-owners-your-content-directed-children

”To be clear, your content isn’t considered “directed to children” just because some children may see it. However, if your intended audience is kids under 13, you’re covered by COPPA and have to honor the Rule’s requirements.”

is your intended audience under 13?

In this case we do know exactly what happened when the government decided to make an example of someone. 

[lucagrabacr]

Second Life is the least "intended-for-kids" 3D virtual world IP out there. If you make SL YT videos and don't deliberately try to gain minors as your audience, you shouldn't be too worried. The FTC would have a very hard case against you and they don't have a reason to, whoever's in charge of issuing fines or responsible for COPPA vague wordings won't risk damaging their image and reputation by fining innocent people they clearly don't have a strong case against

Edited November 27, 2019 by lucagrabacr
typo

[Drake1 Nightfire]

21 hours ago, panterapolnocy said:

Fun fact... the whole storm is about kids' presence on the platform, yet YouTube ToS ( https://www.youtube.com/static?template=terms ) clearly states, that the user may use the "Service " if he/she is at least 13 years old. Hmm... would that probably mean that kids lied during registration about their age or they just venture over internet unsupervised, with parents throwing the responsibility from them to channel owners on YouTube, and FTC noticed that?... Naah, must be my imagination...

Perhaps you missed the whole "Youtube Kids" part of the issue.. There is an app, called Youtube Kids, that is aimed directly at kids under 13. That is what the whole issue is. Will my videos end up on Youtube Kids? Hopefully if i set my channel as "not for kids" they wont. 

[panterapolnocy]

58 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Perhaps you missed the whole "Youtube Kids" part of the issue..

Nope, I didn't. Problem is, kids just tend to watch the "main" YouTube anyway, on parents' accounts or just on their own ones with fake age, and FTC noticed that. This app also didn't help with / wouldn't help with Elsagate if the problem would emerge again, so it clearly doesn't work as intended. And FTC noticed that as well, that's why the lawsuit and ruckus. Maybe it would show better content now (soon?), after literally everyone on YouTube declare if their videos are for kids or not. Maybe. And remember, that if you set your channel as "not suitable for kids" it doesn't mean that YT robot would not be able to set individual videos as "for kids" and lock them as such.

What YouTube could do to fix all this storm is just to allow "content that appeals to all ages" because FTC agrees on that clearly / add age gate, where everyone by default (everyone's account) is kid under 13 years old unless they prove that they are not such - and FTC would be happy. That's what YouTube Kids does, but in opposite. But, that would need a bit more programming than introducing a checkbox and would also lower potential revenue from ads for YouTube, methinks.

Edited November 27, 2019 by panterapolnocy