SL Blogger Network

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You misunderstand. It's not the blog writers. It's LL's high handed "guidelines" where everything has to be Better Homes & Gardens magazine picture perfect. It's also because it's all free advertising for LL but you have to advertise SL their way, not in a way that actually works.

I'm not interested in reading any blog that paints everything pertaining to SL in rainbows, glitter and unicorns because that is nothing more than a load of bull manure. 

I get your side of it, but look at the other side of it. This will also paint a better picture for SL, right now SL is viewed as being perverted essentially akin to well a sex simulator. Yes their guidelines maybe strict. But you do kinda gotta put your best foot forward and show off the best of what SL has to offer. Yeah I get it seems like it's sugar coating it, but I am getting tired of SL being looked at as a sex simulator, and not as the amazing platform it is. SL has way more to offer than what people have perceived it as.

[Love Zhaoying]

This is cool, it appears LL gets to use others’ hard work to promote their product. Smart marketing! 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

it appears LL gets to use others’ hard work

LOL

That's pretty much the entire premise of a virtual world built with user-created content.

So, what's new?

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

This is cool, it appears LL gets to use others’ hard work to promote their product. Smart marketing! 

I really don't think they are using other's hardwork to promote their product. If that were the case, than they would just take your blog and photos without permission. In all actuality, if you sign up they can use your content to promote their platform. So it's not using other's hard work to promote their platform. If you feel that way, then don't sign up. No one is forcing you, it's not like LL will all of a sudden force all bloggers into this. It's a volunteer basis. It's just like YouTube, if you become a partner, they too have a right to use your content as they see fit. It is their platform after all, and if you sign up, than yes they have every right to use your content to promote a platform. But the thing is, again you have to sign up to even allow them to do it.

[Sammy Huntsman]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, ok, this. I really like your idea of a hub for adult blogs -- curated, I guess, by LL -- behind a wall that includes a content warning.

The rank hypocrisy of LL's tendency to hide adult content, all the while profiting from it -- and indeed, allowing just about anything to be represented in-world -- has always rankled. And I agree that, while it's not my thing, the expression of sexuality here is as valid as anything else that appears in-world.

I guess my only slight reservation is that I worry that SL might be perceived, more than it already is, as a purely sexual platform. But I don't think that'd be much of an issue if there were content warnings.

SL is already perceived as a purely sexual platform. Have you seen Flickr? A lot of people are taking pornographic images. Which in turn gives potentially new users a bad taste. Do I agree that is has to be driven underground, no. But I do think that as you said, there has to be some sort of content warning. As SL's sexual scene is not a thing for me. I tried it, and yeah didn't really like it.

[Beth Macbain]

37 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But, that kind of thing isn't, as Selene puts it, rainbows, glitter, and unicorns, so it won't likely interest LL much.

I had a much longer response written out, but this pretty much sums it up. Even though LL is based in one of the most liberal cities in the US, compared to the rest of the world it might as well be a Shaker Village. 

I know LL employees like sex. Even have sex. Totally approve of sex. 

Yet someone (hi, marketing department) has their head buried so deep under the puritanical sand and no one (hi, Ebbe) will kick that person or persons in the pants and tell them to embrace ALL kinds of diversity, not just the popular ones, when thinking about how to present SL to the world. 

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I really don't think they are using other's hardwork to promote their product. If that were the case, than they would just take your blog and photos without permission. In all actuality, if you sign up they can use your content to promote their platform. So it's not using other's hard work to promote their platform. If you feel that way, then don't sign up. No one is forcing you, it's not like LL will all of a sudden force all bloggers into this. It's a volunteer basis. It's just like YouTube, if you become a partner, they too have a right to use your content as they see fit. It is their platform after all, and if you sign up, than yes they have every right to use your content to promote a platform. But the thing is, again you have to sign up to even allow them to do it.

Now I’m confused. You both agreed and disagreed. That’s ok!

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Now I’m confused. You both agreed and disagreed. That’s ok!

Let me try to clear this up, if you don't want LL to not use your content as they see fit. Then don't sign up. It's that simple. That is not agreeing or disagreeing, that is just giving you the blunt and honest reality of the situation. It's just like my example on YouTube, if these content creators didn't want YouTube to use your content to promote their platform. Then they needn't apply to the partner program. In essence, this is LL's partner program for bloggers.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I had a much longer response written out, but this pretty much sums it up. Even though LL is based in one of the most liberal cities in the US, compared to the rest of the world it might as well be a Shaker Village. 

I know LL employees like sex. Even have sex. Totally approve of sex. 

Yet someone (hi, marketing department) has their head buried so deep under the puritanical sand and no one (hi, Ebbe) will kick that person or persons in the pants and tell them to embrace ALL kinds of diversity, not just the popular ones, when thinking about how to present SL to the world. 

True, nothing wrong with sex.
But think of it this way, would you want to be considered as ONLY a sex object, as women often have been through the ages.
We want to be seen as people with many other attributes too, brains even.
Likewise with SL, it had the reputation of only being about sex, when it has always been about so much more.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I had a much longer response written out, but this pretty much sums it up. Even though LL is based in one of the most liberal cities in the US, compared to the rest of the world it might as well be a Shaker Village. 

I know LL employees like sex. Even have sex. Totally approve of sex. 

Yet someone (hi, marketing department) has their head buried so deep under the puritanical sand and no one (hi, Ebbe) will kick that person or persons in the pants and tell them to embrace ALL kinds of diversity, not just the popular ones, when thinking about how to present SL to the world. 

Yes SL is a diverse world with a wide range of cultures. Kinda like Canada, where we are a mosaic of cultures. If we were to just put sex at the forefront of promoting the platform. People would get the wrong idea. That and in the SL official Flickr group nude photos are officially deleted and that user removed from the group. So yes while I do agree with your premise, I don't think that we should promote stuff like that and put it at the forefront. As I said before, SL is already looked at as a sex simulator. We don't want to give potentially new users the wrong idea.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True, nothing wrong with sex.
But think of it this way, would you want to be considered as ONLY a sex object, as women often have been through the ages.
We want to be seen as people with many other attributes too, brains even.
Likewise with SL, it had the reputation of only being about sex, when it has always been about so much more.

This is actually the first time I will actually agree with you, you have a good solid argument that actually is pretty similar to mine. Not being sarcastic, but literally I am actually agreeing with you on this one.

[Beth Macbain]

41 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I get your side of it, but look at the other side of it. This will also paint a better picture for SL, right now SL is viewed as being perverted essentially akin to well a sex simulator. Yes their guidelines maybe strict. But you do kinda gotta put your best foot forward and show off the best of what SL has to offer. Yeah I get it seems like it's sugar coating it, but I am getting tired of SL being looked at as a sex simulator, and not as the amazing platform it is. SL has way more to offer than what people have perceived it as.

Best foot forward to who? Because sex sells. I think pretending adult content doesn't exist has hurt SL immeasurably. To a great many people, the adult side of SL IS the best of what SL has to offer. It IS a sex simulator, along with a billion other things.

While you (and many others) think SL is viewed as being "perverted", I think the truth is that SL is mostly viewed as nothing. Few know what it is or anything about it. When I mention SL to people, 9 times out of 10, I get a blank stare, or people have heard of it but know absolutely nothing about it. 

33 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

SL is already perceived as a purely sexual platform. Have you seen Flickr? A lot of people are taking pornographic images. Which in turn gives potentially new users a bad taste. Do I agree that is has to be driven underground, no. But I do think that as you said, there has to be some sort of content warning. As SL's sexual scene is not a thing for me. I tried it, and yeah didn't really like it.

Again, by whom? I have seen Flickr. I've posts thousands of adult images from SL on there. From the years and years I've spent on there, there are far more G and PG rated SL-related Flickr accounts than their are adult ones. 

And which potential new users? I don't know a lot of adults who want to go online to play grown up Barbies or Legos, but I do know a hell of a lot that want to go online and get their sexy on. 

This gets to the crux of it - LL needs to be marketing to a very diverse audience in a plethora of different ways on a plethora of different platforms. Sex is a biggie, possibly bigger than a lot of other draws. I think LL needs to capitalize on that. 

Hiding it under the carpet is the wrong way to go, I think, including when it comes to their new blogger network.

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Best foot forward to who? Because sex sells. I think pretending adult content doesn't exist has hurt SL immeasurably. To a great many people, the adult side of SL IS the best of what SL has to offer. It IS a sex simulator, along with a billion other things.

While you (and many others) think SL is viewed as being "perverted", I think the truth is that SL is mostly viewed as nothing. Few know what it is or anything about it. When I mention SL to people, 9 times out of 10, I get a blank stare, or people have heard of it but know absolutely nothing about it. 

Again, by whom? I have seen Flickr. I've posts thousands of adult images from SL on there. From the years and years I've spent on there, there are far more G and PG rated SL-related Flickr accounts than their are adult ones. 

And which potential new users? I don't know a lot of adults who want to go online to play grown up Barbies or Legos, but I do know a hell of a lot that want to go online and get their sexy on. 

This gets to the crux of it - LL needs to be marketing to a very diverse audience in a plethora of different ways on a plethora of different platforms. Sex is a biggie, possibly bigger than a lot of other draws. I think LL needs to capitalize on that. 

Hiding it under the carpet is the wrong way to go, I think, including when it comes to their new blogger network.

But should we just start putting SL porno on the front page to promote the platform as a whole? Btw I said people perceive it as perverted, not that I think it as that. That all being said, have you seen Flickr? There are tonnes of people who upload and do promote SL sex in a positive way. Sure we can capitalize on it, but SL is more than that. And the only thing that people can think of is that we need to capitalize on just sex, than there is a problem. The problem lies in the fact that when people see SL, they will only see that side and much more diverse and richer culture that is. Nowhere did I say to hide it, I think a lot of things should stop being shoved underground. And by capitalizing off of just sex, than SL would be viewed as just a sex simulator. There is nothing wrong with sex, or wanting to bump pixel uglies. But SL is worth more than just sexual encounters.

Edited September 27, 2019 by halebore Aeon

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Oddly enough, I agree with Prok about this, albeit for mostly different reasons.

It wouldn't be difficult for SL to put adult blogs behind a page where you accept that you're about to see adult material. SL is full of adult material and I'm really bloody sick and tired of SL acting like it isn't full of adult material.

Some of the adult material is absolutely trashy, yes, and should never see the light of day, but other adult material can be, and often is, more erotic in nature. There are beautiful adult destinations, events, clubs, stores, lifestyles, and some amazing bloggers featuring these things. 

Adult material needn't be treated like SL's dirty secret. Even where adult content is acknowledged by LL, it's hidden at the bottom of the page, like in the destination guide or on these forums, and that is inexcusable and oh-so prudish in my opinion. Sexual activity between consenting adults is healthy. 

Sexuality, and the exploration of it, IS a positive implementation of the Second Life experience, and I this is the mountain I will die on.  

I presume that LL is creating this SL blogger network to advance the business. If so, your argument requires that promoting SL's erotic use, however tastefully, does that. It might. I don't know. I don't know if LL does either.

This argument reminds me of Dick's Sporting Goods stopping the sale of guns. While 2nd amendment advocates howl, sales are increasing. Though I came to SL for the sex, I've stayed for everything else. SL, in whatever form it takes, is better than no SL at all. My faith in The Law of Unintended Consequences leads me to wonder whether the idea you'll die for will leave no mountain for your burial.

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

But should we just start putting SL porno on the front page to promote the platform as a whole? Btw I said people perceive it as perverted, not that I think it as that. That all being said, have you seen Flickr? There are tonnes of people who upload and do promote SL sex in a positive way. Sure we can capitalize on it, but SL is more than that. And the only thing that people can think of is that we need to capitalize on just sex, than there is a problem. The problem lies in the fact that when people see SL, they will only see that side and much more diverse and richer culture that is. Nowhere did I say to hide it, I think a lot of things should stop being shoved underground.

No where am I saying to only promote the adult side of things, but as it stands, it gets zero promotion and that has lead to people believing the absolute wrong thing about the adult side, thanks to decade old media stories that were never properly challenged or countered. Since that scare, LL has been utterly terrified to say "Yeah, you know what? People do have sex in SL and we're okay with that."

I'm saying to stop pretending it doesn't exist. To give it equal acknowledgement. 

Not to mention that a lot of people come to SL for the sex, and then discover how much more it is, like me. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

No where am I saying to only promote the adult side of things, but as it stands, it gets zero promotion and that has lead to people believing the absolute wrong thing about the adult side, thanks to decade old media stories that were never properly challenged or countered. Since that scare, LL has been utterly terrified to say "Yeah, you know what? People do have sex in SL and we're okay with that."

I'm saying to stop pretending it doesn't exist. To give it equal acknowledgement. 

Not to mention that a lot of people come to SL for the sex, and then discover how much more it is, like me. 

But how do we promote it? Do we show two people pixel boinking? That and they may show it on YouTube and other social media that has a no nudity policy. How are we to promote it, if you have to cover up bits and bobs? No one is pretending it doesn't exist, I just think in all retrospect. Most people came for that, and then found other things that piqued their interest and sex was not the main focus of why they are there now. Sure Sex is a good thing, and yes we need to start showing it off in a positive light. That I totally agree with, but this raises the question. How do we promote it in a way, that A gives a good light, and B doesn't automatically generate this predisposed idea that this is what SL is all about?

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

This argument reminds me of Dick's Sporting Goods stopping the sale of guns. While 2nd amendment advocates howl, sales are increasing. Though I came to SL for the sex, I've stayed for everything else. SL, in whatever form it takes, is better than no SL at all. My faith in The Law of Unintended Consequences leads me to wonder whether the idea you'll die for will leave no mountain for your burial.

Isn't it possible to look at this the other way as well? SL starts acknowledging the adult side of things - While the puritans howl, new residents are increasing.

A website that rhymes with corn stub has the 7th highest traffic ranking in the US, ahead of Instagram, Wikipedia, Netflix, Walmart, Yelp... Is there really a fear that acknowledging that adult content exists in SL will bring down the mountain? 

2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But how do we promote it? Do we show two people pixel boinking? That and they may show it on YouTube and other social media that has a no nudity policy. How are we to promote it, if you have to cover up bits and bobs? No one is pretending it doesn't exist, I just think in all retrospect. Most people came for that, and then found other things that piqued their interest and sex was not the main focus of why they are there now. Sure Sex is a good thing, and yes we need to start showing it off in a positive light. That I totally agree with, but this raises the question. How do we promote it in a way, that A gives a good light, and B doesn't automatically generate this predisposed idea that this is what SL is all about?

Would you advertise your church bake sale at an atheist's convention?

Yes, you show people pixel boinking, but no, you don't show those particular ads on YouTube or in Better Housekeeping. See, again, that 7th most trafficked website in the US that rhymes with corn stub.

SL is a million different things - advertise it in a million different ways in a million different places. 

Or get really creative and mix it up. DO show it in Better Housekeeping and watch the bored, unsatisfied housewives with plenty of disposable spending money come flocking into SL. Put a banner ad on corn stub showing sailing. See what happens. 

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This seems rather . . . cynical? I don't doubt for a moment that LL had particular bloggers already in mind when they first pitched this idea (it's hard to imagine this working without the inclusion of Inara's blog, and it's nice to see Sasy and Kess there too), but I can't imagine why LL wouldn't want to promote other bloggers who fit into their (admittedly rather narrow) definition of suitability.

What struck me about the Content Guidelines was this, in the very first bullet point: "The blog post highlights a positive implementation of the Second Life experience . . ." What that suggests to me is that LL isn't much interested in "critique" or cultural criticism of any sort. I haven't blogged about SL in 5 years, and I'm unlikely to pick it up again, but if I did I'm pretty sure that most of my posts wouldn't qualify as "positive" implementations (although, they also wouldn't be especially "negative," either). I think that what this is about is promotion and PR, first and foremost, as well, possibly, as "education," in the sense of the provision for tutorials in things like BOM, navigating the viewer, photography, etc.

But . . . it also seems to fit in very well with what seems to be LL's newish emphasis on nurturing community with SL. And that's a good thing -- even if I don't think I'd be invited as a featured speaker at the block party.

Scylla, do you really want to read blogs that are only about Happy People Eating Noodle Salads? Even Inara Pey will have something critical to say once in awhile about some policy or place. It's not what you read in RL so it shouldn't be the limit of SL, either. 

Why does "community" have to be suburbia and campers and "positivity"? There are all kinds of things that make communities. 

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I feel your pain, Prok.

I too hate that childhood tennis coach who picked another girl for the first double's tennis team because I kept hitting my partner in the back of the head with wild serves.

I have never hit anyone in the back of the head with a wild serve, in RL or SL. No one is required to read my blog or rent my rentals.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

Isn't it possible to look at this the other way as well? SL starts acknowledging the adult side of things - While the puritans howl, new residents are increasing.

A website that rhymes with corn stub has the 7th highest traffic ranking in the US, ahead of Instagram, Wikipedia, Netflix, Walmart, Yelp... Is there really a fear that acknowledging that adult content exists in SL will bring down the mountain? 

Would you advertise your church bake sale at an atheist's convention?

Yes, you show people pixel boinking, but no, you don't show those particular ads on YouTube or in Better Housekeeping. See, again, that 7th most trafficked website in the US that rhymes with corn stub.

SL is a million different things - advertise it in a million different ways in a million different places. 

Or get really creative and mix it up. DO show it in Better Housekeeping and watch the bored, unsatisfied housewives with plenty of disposable spending money come flocking into SL. Put a banner ad on corn stub showing sailing. See what happens. 

The biggest issue here is that do we want people to come to SL thinking it's all about sex? Like again Sex sells I get that, but what should we do to let future users know that SL is worth more than that. There is more to this world than sex, and same goes for SL.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Scylla, do you really want to read blogs that are only about Happy People Eating Noodle Salads? Even Inara Pey will have something critical to say once in awhile about some policy or place. It's not what you read in RL so it shouldn't be the limit of SL, either. 

Why does "community" have to be suburbia and campers and "positivity"? There are all kinds of things that make communities. 

Yes, but again should we let people who are absolutely gonna crap on SL into the fold? They are trying to positively promote SL, not have mixed reviews where we have say someone Like Wagner James Au who mainly does fear mongering and craps on SL, it's users and creators and then insert some nice thing into the mix. People would just get ideas. He already compares SL to AAA games and says that SL should downgrade to allow for a small minority of users to use it too. Like I get your point, and you do raise a very valid point. But to what point do we allow critics into this? Do we just let them go ham and rip SL a new one, or do we allow for people to constructively criticize SL?

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

The biggest issue here is that do we want people to come to SL thinking it's all about sex? Like again Sex sells I get that, but what should we do to let future users know that SL is worth more than that. There is more to this world than sex, and same goes for SL.

Personally, I don't mind people thinking that. I believe they will be very surprised when they arrive and learn that it is much more than just sex. 

I think you aren't reading all my words. You're skipping over all the parts where I say to diversify the advertising (and I do count blogs in this, just to keep it on topic). 

Currently, if a potential new resident goes solely by what they see on the SL website or LL's current methods of advertising SL, they wouldn't have a clue that adult content exists since LL pretends it doesn't and refuses to acknowledge it. 

To twist your last sentence around, sex is part of this world, and same goes for SL. 

[Eva Knoller]

I think the number of naked noobs with their ‘let’s sex’ IMs shows that SL is already known for sex. It’s the other stuff that LL needs help promoting. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

Personally, I don't mind people thinking that. I believe they will be very surprised when they arrive and learn that it is much more than just sex. 

I think you aren't reading all my words. You're skipping over all the parts where I say to diversify the advertising (and I do count blogs in this, just to keep it on topic). 

Currently, if a potential new resident goes solely by what they see on the SL website or LL's current methods of advertising SL, they wouldn't have a clue that adult content exists since LL pretends it doesn't and refuses to acknowledge it. 

To twist your last sentence around, sex is part of this world, and same goes for SL. 

Never said it wasn't, but you also gotta look at it from this point of view. Sure there isn't that much about SL sex, actually you can practically find it anywhere if you really look. Like look on MP, type in anything you want to buy. Sexualised versions are usually the first ones to pop, up depending on the users rating settings. But yes I do agree there needs to be diversity, but to what degree. Like right now, I will search for Nun and I will find tonnes of Slooty nun costumes and outfits. So when you say it's not really brought to the forefront and there is no real diversity, look on MP. Look at a lot of poses you can, save for a very few pose companies. You can see a lot of these companies, put their poses into very suggestive positions. Which makes it hard for people like me, to find normal everyday looking poses. But now I am rambling. Look at events, and a lot of stores these days. They are pushing sex heavily. It's not really underground as much as people say it is.

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

Never said it wasn't, but you also gotta look at it from this point of view. Sure there isn't that much about SL sex, actually you can practically find it anywhere if you really look. Like look on MP, type in anything you want to buy. Sexualised versions are usually the first ones to pop, up depending on the users rating settings. But yes I do agree there needs to be diversity, but to what degree. Like right now, I will search for Nun and I will find tonnes of Slooty nun costumes and outfits. So when you say it's not really brought to the forefront and there is no real diversity, look on MP. Look at a lot of poses you can, save for a very few pose companies. You can see a lot of these companies, put their poses into very suggestive positions. Which makes it hard for people like me, to find normal everyday looking poses. But now I am rambling. Look at events, and a lot of stores these days. They are pushing sex heavily. It's not really underground as much as people say it is.

Potential new residents aren't going to be on the MP. You have to be logged in AND have your ratings set to view A rated items. Potential new residents aren't going to even know the MP exists.

Potential means they are not residents. Remove being a resident from this equation. This is not about current residents. 

Potential. NEW. Residents. 

What creators make and sell on the MP has no bearing on this.