SL Blogger Network

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, halebore Aeon said:

it specifically states in the TOS behaviour such as the RPs you described is totally a no no

And THIS is precisely my point. LL is already "cherry picking" what is allowed, and what is not. They have, for instance, decided, for whatever reasons, that it's perfectly permissible to RP the rape and disemboweling (not necessarily in that order) of a woman avatar because she is a woman, but not permissible to do the same thing to an avatar targeted because of their ethnicity. The logic of "it's all consensual" can't explain that distinction, and neither can an "all this or all that" understanding of how the TOS and the CS is applied.

The decision that determined that women are apparently acceptable targets of represented abuse, murder, sexual assault, and discrimination, while children and so-called "racialized" residents are not was presumably made because LL finds the one much less embarrassing than the other -- a fact that probably says volumes about the continuing misogyny of our culture.

My point, then, is that these are arbitrary decisions that have been made by LL for their own reasons. And the decision about what to include in the SLBN will be made on the basis of the same corporate priorities.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Beth Macbain]

Gor isn't a lifestyle. It's a world created in a series of really horribly written books by a man who wants nothing to do with the strange RP that has sprung from it. 

It's basically the incel's dream world. No one is actually living as a Gorean in real life - at least, I hope they aren't because if they are they're kidnapping and abusing women who have absolutely not given consent. The entire premise is based on women basically being objects, and as far as I know, the true BDSM community looks upon Gor as disdainfully as I do since informed consent is a huge part of BDSM. 

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Gor isn't a lifestyle. It's a world created in a series of really horribly written books by a man who wants nothing to do with the strange RP that has sprung from it. 

It's basically the incel's dream world. No one is actually living as a Gorean in real life - at least, I hope they aren't because if they are they're kidnapping and abusing women who have absolutely not given consent. The entire premise is based on women basically being objects, and as far as I know, the true BDSM community looks upon Gor as disdainfully as I do since informed consent is a huge part of BDSM. 

 

Some women, not all women like to be looked at in that way. And that is not a problem, if there are two consenting at adults. How is it harming anyone?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Some women, not all women like to be looked at in that way. And that is not a problem, if there are two consenting at adults. How is it harming anyone?

And by this logic, how is it "harming anyone" if we have a jolly game of "let's lynch black people"? And yet, I think we'd agree that there is harm involved.

The "harm" isn't physical, and it may (or may not) be to those actually involved. It is social harm.

You were the one who argued that we needed to be "consistent" in our understanding of this. So, be consistent. Why is one "harmful," and the other not?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Annie Nova]

58 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Heck, I came to SL cause I saw an article in a business magazine about Anshe Chung talking about virtual real estate. I read through the article, mind you this was back in 2007. But even then, I never once thought that SL was about sex, nor had intentions to do so. My Intentions were to try and make a name for myself on the grid. Fast Forward almost 12 years later, I am kinda doing that but not as I originally intended to. I blog, and found enjoyment out of doing that. But yeah as you said, not a lot of people come in just for the sex. Most of us have heard it by word of mouth, or even by seeing it on TV or even in magazines. I know a lot of people who came here, cause they saw it in the office or CSI: NY. Actually I watched that episode of CSI:NY, it was really good. Now I want to watch it now.

Exactly my point, halebore, and the reason I came into SL was because of that episode of CSI:NY lol, had no clue there was sex in SL, that came much later, but the other things that make SL, SL blew me away. I never had a thought to become rich because I honestly i can't put two prims together straight lol but later, as I became more aware of what SL was about, sure, sex became part of the equation and I've no regrets in finding that aspect very nice 🙂 

Now I need to see if I can find that episode on my Roku lol it was really good but some of it was misleading because they made SL seem like there was no learning curve at all, WRONG! lol

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And by this logic, how is it "harming anyone" if we have a jolly game of "let's lynch black people"? And yet, I think we'd agree that there is harm involved.

The "harm" isn't physical, and it may (or may not) be to those actually involved. It is social harm.

You were the one who argued that we needed to be "consistent" in our understanding of this. So, be consistent. Why is one "harmful," and the other not?

Why do you always pull out the sympathy arguments, to make what I say sound immorally wrong? I had said nothing about Race, yet you seem to be constantly bringing it back to that. But here is the thing, it had nothing to do with race. I was meaning in the Gor or any other lifestyle, some women like to be coddled and nurtured and clingy, and that is totally fine. Some men too. Why is it not harmful, because in these cases. And we are talking about Gor, not about Race and Lynching, which you sound so obsessed about. These women, who are into stuff like this are totally fine with it, and want to be subservient to a man or a woman and be considered property or an object. It's just like the women and men who like to be considered household objects, like couches chairs or even lamps. Do I agree with that lifestyle? No, not at all. But let me better rephrase, women and men who enjoy stuff like this, are not harming others by enjoying it.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, anniepany said:

Exactly my point, halebore, and the reason I came into SL was because of that episode of CSI:NY lol, had no clue there was sex in SL, that came much later, but the other things that make SL, SL blew me away. I never had a thought to become rich because I honestly i can't put two prims together straight lol but later, as I became more aware of what SL was about, sure, sex became part of the equation and I've no regrets in finding that aspect very nice 🙂 

Now I need to see if I can find that episode on my Roku lol it was really good but some of it was misleading because they made SL seem like there was no learning curve at all, WRONG! lol

It's called Down the Rabbit Hole, I hope that helps. Now i want to watch both parts tonight. It was really good. Speaking of which, the CBS actually recreated the Lab from CSI:NY and people could come check it out for a bit. I think that sim is down now, but they did have it up at one time.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

i was working from the current rules for having an sccount

18+ maingrid level access. G + M + A

16-17. maingrid level G

13-15. restricted private estate level G. The restricted private estate level G also allows 16+ accounts including adults, access as invited by the estate owner. To get this kind of estate, Linden have rules governing RL identity

at the moment 16-17 yo's  can go to any G rated region on the grid

my view is that while under 18s (16-17s) are allowed to have an account with this access level, then all of the G mainland regions should be on a continent of their own

edit add: what I am advocating is that the inworld view for the different levels should be consistent for the residents. A practical way to do this is by continent ratings

So you want the adults who are not interested in A ratings to be forced to deal with kids? That isn't going to work.The only real solution is total separation of adults from kids which means the kids have their own continent while the adults have what we have now. One continent for the underaged, rated G, is more than sufficient. No need to change anything else.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

So you want the adults who are not interested in A ratings to be forced to deal with kids? That isn't going to work.The only real solution is total separation of adults from kids which means the kids have their own continent while the adults have what we have now. One continent for the underaged, rated G, is more than sufficient. No need to change anything else.

So essentially Belissaria but for minors. That is what I am kinda getting from how you explained it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why do you always pull out the sympathy arguments, to make what I say sound immorally wrong? I had said nothing about Race, yet you seem to be constantly bringing it back to that. But here is the thing, it had nothing to do with race. I was meaning in the Gor or any other lifestyle, some women like to be coddled and nurtured and clingy, and that is totally fine. Some men too. Why is it not harmful, because in these cases. And we are talking about Gor, not about Race and Lynching, which you sound so obsessed about. These women, who are into stuff like this are totally fine with it, and want to be subservient to a man or a woman and be considered property or an object. It's just like the women and men who like to be considered household objects, like couches chairs or even lamps. Do I agree with that lifestyle? No, not at all. But let me better rephrase, women and men who enjoy stuff like this, are not harming others by enjoying it.

/me facepalms

I am "pulling these out" because you are sidestepping the implications of your own argument. The contention that "it is causing no harm" to those actually involved can be used to justify any kind of role play whatsoever in Second Life.

Please face up to those implications. The argument you are using to justify Gor can also be used, has been used, to justify all sorts of horrendous forms of RP and representation in SL. If you don't believe that these forms of RP should be allowed, then you need to explain why they are different. If you continue to maintain that one is "ok," but the other isn't, without explaining why there is a distinction, you are simply highlighting the flaws and inconsistency in your own reasoning.

[Selene Gregoire]

22 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

No one is actually living as a Gorean in real life

Sorry but you are incorrect. I, personally, know people in real life who do live the Gorean lifestyle.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

/me facepalms

I am "pulling these out" because you are sidestepping the implications of your own argument. The contention that "it is causing no harm" to those actually involved can be used to justify any kind of role play whatsoever in Second Life.

Please face up to those implications. The argument you are using to justify Gor can also be used, has been used, to justify all sorts of horrendous forms of RP and representation in SL. If you don't believe that these forms of RP should be allowed, then you need to explain why they are different. If you continue to maintain that one is "ok," but the other isn't, without explaining why there is a distinction, you are simply highlighting the flaws and inconsistency in your own reasoning.

It's really simple as to why these are not allowed, A RL it is against the law to go and do stuff like that. B is very morally wrong  and C it is against TOS. There is a big difference in something that is allowed by TOS and something that isn't allowed by TOS and can land you in Jail RL. I should reword it, as long as it follows TOS and isn't against the law than it won't harm anyone. Happy with that sentence, than the previous one?

[Annie Nova]

5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

It's called Down the Rabbit Hole, I hope that helps. Now i want to watch both parts tonight. It was really good. Speaking of which, the CBS actually recreated the Lab from CSI:NY and people could come check it out for a bit. I think that sim is down now, but they did have it up at one time.

I remember the name 🙂 When I first entered SL was on that grid and it was the first time I have even played anything that was interactive and boy was I hooked lol after I solved the murders, I ventured onto the main grid and even then it was ages before I knew that sex existed in SL and yes it's down now, I tried to find it once but it was gone. I wish they would bring it back just for the interactive murders. It was fun.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, anniepany said:

I remember the name 🙂 When I first entered SL was on that grid and it was the first time I have even played anything that was interactive and boy was I hooked lol after I solved the murders, I ventured onto the main grid and even then it was ages before I knew that sex existed in SL and yes it's down now, I tried to find it once but it was gone. I wish they would bring it back just for the interactive murders. It was fun.

I never got to see it But I never went down the sex rabbit hole, until 2011, and I was 22 years old. It wasn't until about 2013, that i got bored of bumping pixel uglies, and just started RPing on family Communities, did that for like 3 years, and now I blog and explore. So yeah, I have been down all those rabbit holes, and find that I get great enjoyment out of blogging and exploring second life. Heck, I even tried building and meshing. Definitely wasn't for me. But through all that, I definitely learned a lot in all those years.

[Beth Macbain]

4 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

It's really simple as to why these are not allowed, A RL it is against the law to go and do stuff like that. B is very morally wrong  and C it is against TOS. There is a big difference in something that is allowed by TOS and something that isn't allowed by TOS and can land you in Jail RL. I should reword it, as long as it follows TOS and isn't against the law than it won't harm anyone. Happy with that sentence, than the previous one?

Not sure where you live, but here in the states it's illegal to kidnap and enslave a woman. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Not sure where you live, but here in the states it's illegal to kidnap and enslave a woman. 

I live in Canada. And that is illegal too. But how are they committing a crime, if the woman or man have literally given their permission for this to happen? That and the big difference, is they are "roleplaying" no one is harmed, and it's all in good fun and it's following TOS. Unless it's breaking TOS, then they are not breaking any rules.

Edited September 30, 2019 by halebore Aeon

[Annie Nova]

4 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I never got to see it But I never went down the sex rabbit hole, until 2011, and I was 22 years old. It wasn't until about 2013, that i got bored of bumping pixel uglies, and just started RPing on family Communities, did that for like 3 years, and now I blog and explore. So yeah, I have been down all those rabbit holes, and find that I get great enjoyment out of blogging and exploring second life. Heck, I even tried building and meshing. Definitely wasn't for me. But through all that, I definitely learned a lot in all those years.

Even when I discovered sex in SL I wasn't the type to just jump in the sack willy nilly, as I've stated in another thread I have to feel that connection which I do now with a wonderful man and even though we engage in SLex, we also enjoy the other things that SL has to offer and I'm also not into the open relationship thing that a lot of people seem to enjoy, but hey whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. 

The CSI grid was amazing, I wish I knew about taking pictures back then...sigh...hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it? 🙂

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by anniepany

[Mollymews]

12 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

So you want the adults who are not interested in A ratings to be forced to deal with kids?

this is the reality now on G-rated regions. And has been since January 2011. It has been this way for over 8 years, and nobody who engages in G rated activities on G rated regions has a problem with this

those who did have a problem with this back in the day, moved to M or A regions. M and A being for adults only

[Beth Macbain]

10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I live in Canada. And that is illegal too. But how are they committing a crime, if the woman or man have literally given their permission for this to happen? That and the big difference, is they are "roleplaying" no one is harmed, and it's all in good fun and it's following TOS. Unless it's breaking TOS, then they are not breaking any rules.

But that's not what you said here...

19 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

It's really simple as to why these are not allowed, A RL it is against the law to go and do stuff like that. B is very morally wrong  and C it is against TOS. There is a big difference in something that is allowed by TOS and something that isn't allowed by TOS and can land you in Jail RL. I should reword it, as long as it follows TOS and isn't against the law than it won't harm anyone. Happy with that sentence, than the previous one?

It's entirely possible for things to not be against the TOS but to be illegal in the real world. 

I can buy a bomb on the MP, but it would be illegal to do so in the real world. I can buy heroin on the MP, but it would be illegal to do so in the real world. I can sell my body for sex in SL, but it would be illegal for me to do that in the real world (at least in my part of it). 

[Selene Gregoire]

13 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this is the reality now on G-rated regions. And has been since January 2011. It has been this way for over 8 years, and nobody who engages in G rated activities on G rated regions has a problem with this

those who did have a problem with this back in the day, moved to M or A regions. M and A being for adults only

I go to all 3 just as many others do. There's no reason we can't have adult G rated regions as well as M and A along with the kids having their own continent. 

You say no adults on G rated regions has a problem with being completely cut off from the majority of other adults. Sorry, not buying it. Show me some evidence to back that claim up with please. I mean hard evidence, not just a few disgruntled people complaining about SL sex.

The simplest, easiest, most cost efficient way is to create a teen continent and leave the rest of SL for the adults with all ratings intact and without needing to rate every continent which, frankly, I doubt LL would be willing to do. The system they have already in place works, although I do think there should be at least one more category. I've always felt the old movie style ratings were best, G, PG, R and X. Which in SL speak would be G, PG, M and A.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

But that's not what you said here...

It's entirely possible for things to not be against the TOS but to be illegal in the real world. 

I can buy a bomb on the MP, but it would be illegal to do so in the real world. I can buy heroin on the MP, but it would be illegal to do so in the real world. I can sell my body for sex in SL, but it would be illegal for me to do that in the real world (at least in my part of it). 

Okay, but why are we comparing an RP, to Real World Crimes? That is my big issues here. It's just like a movie, where people are acting a part. Yes some of it may be illegal, but they are acting a part and everyone person involved on set are consenting for this to happen. So let's look at RP as a movie, and realize that they are all actors in one big ass story line.

[Beth Macbain]

26 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Sorry but you are incorrect. I, personally, know people in real life who do live the Gorean lifestyle.

So they're kidnapping women and holding them against their will? You should probably report them to the police. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

21 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

So they're kidnapping women and holding them against their will? You should probably report them to the police. 

No, they are consenting adults who are doing something they find fun. How is that hard to understand? By your logic, we should also be calling the police for women who are into bondage, and are being tied up and whipped. Because Torture and well having a hostage is quite illegal. Use your brain, in these lifestyle both parties are consenting adults. Both parties know full well what they are going through, and both parties are willing and wanting to do it.

Edited September 30, 2019 by halebore Aeon

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I go to all 3 just as many others do. There's no reason we can't have adult G rated regions as well as M and A along with the kids having their own continent. 

You say no adults on G rated regions has a problem with being completely cut off from the majority of other adults. Sorry, not buying it. Show me some evidence to back that claim up with please. I mean hard evidence, not just a few disgruntled people complaining about SL sex.

The simplest, easiest, most cost efficient way is to create a teen continent and leave the rest of SL for the adults with all ratings intact and without needing to rate every continent which, frankly, I doubt LL would be willing to do. They system they have already in place works, although I do think there should be at least one more category. I've always felt the old movie style ratings were best, G, PG, R and X. Which in SL speak would be G, PG, M and A.

Actually M means moderate, so that usually means moderate content. So imagine that as a T rated game, and A is for adult, and Imagine that as an M or AO rated Game.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

So they're kidnapping women and holding them against their will? You should probably report them to the police. 

Not the people I know.  They don't do that.

That is not to say it hasn't happened or won't happen again. Back before SL ever existed there was a man who did exactly that and then hunted those women with bow and arrow. He lived the Gorean lifestyle in RL. There have been many since him.

Here's one kajira who lives the lifestyle in real life: https://thereallifekajira.wordpress.com/about/