What's up with sim crossings?

[MBeatrix]

25 minutes ago, nikita Jefferson said:

As described by Aishagain is exactly what i and my partner are experiencing , i get  that same grey screen after freezing , i would say on sim crossings but its more like no hand over to the next server when crossing you describe  then i have to quit and then when i go to teleport back to the airport it becomes a joke , i generally go to a different viewer  to get back , but no matter what viewer its the same  Alchemy , SL viewer , singularity .

My viewer settings have always been the same , 

 

I've just re-logged after my second crash. Two crashes within less than 10 minutes. All under a "black sky" (no sky rendering.)

First I tried sailing, and crashed at Blake Sea - Spyglass, after leaving from Nuggy to South and circling Nautilus City without any issues. Actually, the crossings were quite peaceful, most even smooth, till I reached Spyglass. I took this crash as "normal", though, as my boat seems to have been "eaten". Next, I tried flying from Honah Lee Trudeau to Nuggy, via Blake Sea - Crows Nest and then North of Nautilus City. It all ended at Weiland, as Cervera wasn't there (yes, no hand over.) In both cases I barely saw any traffic.

Apparently, many people suffering from the teleports issue aren't having the problem anymore if they keep the sky rendering disabled. So, possibly, awful crossings and the teleport issue are not related. But it's yet too early to know or draw any conclusions.

[Aishagain]

Just a little additional info.  As regard my forced quits during flying there is an important difference between my settings and those of my partner.  I use whatever region windlight is set on that region, she does not and always has the same windlight set (this she uses because she sailed a lot).

I believe that difference may well be crucial.

 

While it is clear that Linden Lab ARE aware of this issue, there has been to date (no surprise) radio silence on the blogs and forums from them about this.  I suppose they are a bit miffed that their latest "shiny" is causing so much trouble on the Grid.  I don't suppose they tested the EEP code without EEP-enabled viewers.  Moerover I wonder if you can even walk/fly across region borders on Aditi or Snack. Pity, it could have saved a lot of irritation and much frenzied speculation as to the cause. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Aishagain

[MBeatrix]

49 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

Just a little additional info.  As regard my forced quits during flying there is an important difference between my settings and those of my partner.  I use whatever region windlight is set on that region, she does not and always has the same windlight set (this she uses because she sailed a lot).

I believe that difference may well be crucial.

 

While it is clear that Linden Lab ARE aware of this issue, there has been to date (no surprise) radio silence on the blogs and forums from them about this.  I suppose they are a bit miffed that their latest "shiny" is causing so much trouble on the Grid.  I don't suppose they tested the EEP code without EEP-enabled viewers.  Moerover I wonder if you can even walk/fly across region borders on Aditi or Snack. Pity, it could have saved a lot of irritation and much frenzied speculation as to the cause. 

Sailing or flying always with the same windlight settings never prevented me from crashing. Also, today I crashed twice in a short time while having the sky rendering disabled. So, as I wrote before, possibly crashes on crossings and the teleport issue may not be related. But who knows?

Now, some people claim to have experienced the same issues using the SL Viewer... So, presumably, the issues don't affect only non-EEP viewers. But, again, I'm just guessing.

(I want my sky back!!!!!)

[Aishagain]

1 hour ago, MBeatrix said:

Sailing or flying always with the same windlight settings never prevented me from crashing. Also, today I crashed twice in a short time while having the sky rendering disabled. So, as I wrote before, possibly crashes on crossings and the teleport issue may not be related. But who knows?

Now, some people claim to have experienced the same issues using the SL Viewer... So, presumably, the issues don't affect only non-EEP viewers. But, again, I'm just guessing.

(I want my sky back!!!!!)

MB, the current release LL viewer is not EEP able yet, the EEP viewer is still a project viewer so yes, it has the same issues as FS' current release.  What bothers me even more is that some are saying the even when using the RC/Project viewer they are getting disconnects, so that would tie in with those getting disconnects even with the sky de-rendered.  No, disconnects due to bad region hand-offs have been an issue in SL for quite some time now and I too suspect that is another issue that may or may not be connected.

That this issue remains largely uncommented on by LL suggests they have not (yet) found the source of the issue and no info is forthcoming at time of writing about possible fixes being rolled out this week.

[MBeatrix]

8 hours ago, Aishagain said:

MB, the current release LL viewer is not EEP able yet, the EEP viewer is still a project viewer so yes, it has the same issues as FS' current release.  What bothers me even more is that some are saying the even when using the RC/Project viewer they are getting disconnects, so that would tie in with those getting disconnects even with the sky de-rendered.  No, disconnects due to bad region hand-offs have been an issue in SL for quite some time now and I too suspect that is another issue that may or may not be connected.

That this issue remains largely uncommented on by LL suggests they have not (yet) found the source of the issue and no info is forthcoming at time of writing about possible fixes being rolled out this week.

Guess what... I logged in a few minutes ago and right at the first teleport attempt with the sky rendering disabled I got...

... and was disconnected when I tried to bypass the issue the way I explained a few posts ago.

We don't know if those who say they get the issue with the SL Viewer were using the project viewer or not. At least, I have no info about it. Well, I don't even know if they really did try the SL Viewer, I just take their word for it... But wouldn't it be kind of silly if those who supposedly are actively testing stuff were not using the project viewer? I don't know, people are strange. 😋

[EDIT] It just occurred to me that no one even knows if the issues are caused by the EEP code... But I'm starting to suspect they aren't.
Last Sunday, I went to a bingo test at KittyCatS. I sat on a cushion and after more than 5 minutes there I was suddenly disconnected. Why would EEP be the cause? I know, different disconnects at different locations may have different causes but... Oh well... I'm sick 'n' tired of it all. Let the Lindens do their job, which means testing stuff properly — that's what we pay them for.

Edited April 2, 2019 by MBeatrix
adding a comment

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, MBeatrix said:

Oh well... I'm sick 'n' tired of it all. Let the Lindens do their job, which means testing stuff properly — that's what we pay them for.

Would that include needing to move to Portugal?

[MALIFAX]

On 3/31/2019 at 5:49 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Whirly isn't talking about any sort of "advanced" sky, but the regular sky itself.  The steps she gave will stop rendering the normal sky -- the sun, the clouds, the blue, etc... -- and just result in you seeing nothing but black where the sky would typically be.

Right I tried that, so now it means I have to play my SL in the dark ????? Are you SERIOUS ??? And what about TPs, it changes NOTHING...

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:38 AM, Whirly Fizzle said:

There has been interesting feedback from some users affected by these teleport disconnects, but not enough yet to know if this is actually a thing.
Some users are saying that if they disable sky rendering, they no longer get disconnect on teleport.

Can those of you who can easily reproduce the teleport disconnects try disabling sky rendering & see if that fixes the problem?
To disable sky rendering, activate the Advanced menu in the top menu bar with CTRL+ALT+D.
Advanced -> Rendering Types -> Untick sky (or use shortcut CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+6 to toggle sky rendering on & off).
With sky rendering disabled (you will just see black sky), teleport about using landmarks or the world map - do you still get disconnected?

Please test this with normal teleports, not crossing regions on a vehicle.

Have you looked into whether people on Firestorm who are getting disconnected have teleport screens enabled/disabled? The teleport screen turns off all rendering during the teleport; turning off the sky could be similar.

[Aishagain]

Theresa

I have always had teleport screens enabled and this has made no difference to the frequency of TP disconnects 

Secondly the region border crossing disconnects are instantaneous, so having those screens disabled would be irrelevant.

Whether or not the two have any common cause I do not know.  I only know that something is broken and it needs to be fixed, and quickly.

 

ETA: I should clarify that I HAVE tried TPing without the black screens but I find it most unappealing so I don't use it.  It may be possible to do that via debug settings in the Linden viewer but I detest the UI among other things, so I only use it when absolutely necessary!

Edited April 2, 2019 by Aishagain
clarification

[nikita Jefferson]

Well this is new , they restarted my homestead 4 hours ago , i have had it for 5 years.

I logged in and also logged in my 2 alts which i have done tons of times before , after about 15 minutes we were all logged out , 

I logged us all back in again , they sit on the back of the boat and i went to the boardwalk  ,when i got there i as logged out , the other two were not ,

I logged back in , went for the walk around the island , when i got back they were gone , i checked their screens , both were logged out .

Logged us all back in again , ,about 10 minutes later i was logged out , shortly after they were both logged out . i haven't been to the mainland airport yet , that was restarted this morning  so until we fly tonight i wont know , i do know i went there this morning after the restart there and could not telport home so i just logged out .

In all the years i have been on my homestead i have never been logged out 

This is getting silly , i could understand if SL was free but we all pay through the nose to be here and LL could at least keep us informed as to what the H is going on 

I use singularity viewer which i have used forever , i have no fancy skies , and atmospheric shaders in unchecked , everything is as it has always been 

We did fly on the mainland airport last night and it went ok,as i said we just do circuits , go out 2 sims, turn around and land , we try to beat each other in scoring , 

just now i checked my screen , i was logged in just myself, i wanted to get the server info and guess what i had been logged out again , this is unbelievable , i have a large shop i hope customers are not getting logged out too
Second Life Server 19.03.15.525315

Edited April 2, 2019 by nikita Jefferson
insert server info

[Whirly Fizzle]

57 minutes ago, nikita Jefferson said:

Well this is new , they restarted my homestead 4 hours ago , i have had it for 5 years.

I logged in and also logged in my 2 alts which i have done tons of times before , after about 15 minutes we were all logged out , 

I logged us all back in again , they sit on the back of the boat and i went to the boardwalk  ,when i got there i as logged out , the other two were not ,

I logged back in , went for the walk around the island , when i got back they were gone , i checked their screens , both were logged out .

Logged us all back in again , ,about 10 minutes later i was logged out , shortly after they were both logged out . i haven't been to the mainland airport yet , that was restarted this morning  so until we fly tonight i wont know , i do know i went there this morning after the restart there and could not telport home so i just logged out .

In all the years i have been on my homestead i have never been logged out 

This is getting silly , i could understand if SL was free but we all pay through the nose to be here and LL could at least keep us informed as to what the H is going on 

I use singularity viewer which i have used forever , i have no fancy skies , and atmospheric shaders in unchecked , everything is as it has always been 

We did fly on the mainland airport last night and it went ok,as i said we just do circuits , go out 2 sims, turn around and land , we try to beat each other in scoring , 

just now i checked my screen , i was logged in just myself, i wanted to get the server info and guess what i had been logged out again , this is unbelievable , i have a large shop i hope customers are not getting logged out too
Second Life Server 19.03.15.525315

@nikita Jefferson

Which viewer are you using?
The "OS update" went to the main channel regions today.
There may be problems with some outdated viewers getting disconnected ~ every 15 mins on regions with the OS update.
I know the LL Obsolete platforms viewer and Singulrity Alpha viewer was affected last time - the OS update was rolled back a few weeks ago because of a different problem.

If you happen to be a Singularity viewer user, in the top menu bar. go to Help -> About Singularity & paste the first line, which will show the viewer number & build date.

Singularity did have a fix for the random disconnects & TP failures in their latest alpha build BUT I've seen some feedback it isn't actually fixed.
The Singularity issue is totally separate from the current TP disconnect problem too - it has a different cause.

Edit to add:  Sorry, I missed you said you used Singularity in your post.
Are you sure you are using the latest Singularity alpha build?

Are all your friends who are also being disconnected on Singularity?

Edited April 2, 2019 by Whirly Fizzle

[nikita Jefferson]

WHIRLY FIZZLE  on my homestead i always use singularity , when flying on our mainland airport singularity is useless so i have used the SL viewer or the Alchemy viewer, the described condition of being logged out on border crossings was with both the SL viewer and the Alchemy viewer , my partner always uses the Alchemy viewer. and she had the same problem .

As per my post re. being constantly logged out on my homestead with singularity  , i decided to try the SL viewer and when i brought up the log in screen  there was an update  to the latest version . 

I have myself and my 2 alts logged in on the SL viewer and it seems fine , that is on my homestead , i will be flying tonight so we will see how that goes , i will try the SL viewer there but quite frankly i hate it with a passion , i have used singularity forever ,but it looks like i can't use it anymore and that degrades the SL experience for me ,

Just to add, re your question on Singularity , today when i had the constant being logged out on my homestead ,i was on the regular singularity , i have the alpha build and sometimes i use that but not for flying , i use neither singularity for flying , i haven't tried the  singularity alpha build on my homestead yet re the being logged out , that is just new today after the rolling restart ., just wanted to see how the SL one does and it seem good , no being logged out , i will let you know re the alpha build singularity. i hope it is ok . 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATEI checked the Singularity website and my alpha build was not the latest , i uninstalled both singularity viewers , restarted and installed the latest alpha build , 

I logged in myself and my 2 alts , ( In my homestead ))after about 15 or 20 minutes i  got logged out , then shortly after both my alts got logged out .

So it looks like i can't use singularity anymore , i have to use that sl viewer which i hate .

As for flying i might not get to our mainland airport for a day or two to fly and see how sim crossings are ---------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE 2 , well i am on the latest updated SL viewer, my homestead was restarted this morning as a rolling restart .

So latest  region restart . latest SL updated viewer, 

I went to teleport to our mainland airport and it hung and hung , then logged me out , it gets worse and worse, 

I have been in sl 13 years and never experienced   this , is this what we pay good money for , damn 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE  3  i logged back in again and this time i could teleport to the mainland sim , , i guess we just have to put up with it 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by nikita Jefferson
update info again and again

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, MALIFAX said:

Right I tried that, so now it means I have to play my SL in the dark ????? Are you SERIOUS ??? And what about TPs, it changes NOTHING...

Don't yell at me about it - I was just clarifying what Whirly said.  

If you want to yell, go open a support ticket and yell at LL.

[nikita Jefferson]

UPDATE  3  i logged back in again and this time i could teleport to the mainland sim , , i guess we just have to put up with it 

[MBeatrix]

11 hours ago, nikita Jefferson said:

[...]

UPDATEI checked the Singularity website and my alpha build was not the latest , i uninstalled both singularity viewers , restarted and installed the latest alpha build , 

I logged in myself and my 2 alts , ( In my homestead ))after about 15 or 20 minutes i  got logged out , then shortly after both my alts got logged out .

So it looks like i can't use singularity anymore , i have to use that sl viewer which i hate .

As for flying i might not get to our mainland airport for a day or two to fly and see how sim crossings are ---------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE 2 , well i am on the latest updated SL viewer, my homestead was restarted this morning as a rolling restart .

So latest  region restart . latest SL updated viewer, 

I went to teleport to our mainland airport and it hung and hung , then logged me out , it gets worse and worse, 

I have been in sl 13 years and never experienced   this , is this what we pay good money for , damn 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE  3  i logged back in again and this time i could teleport to the mainland sim , , i guess we just have to put up with it 

 

Are you using the EEP project viewer?

Edited April 3, 2019 by MBeatrix
corrections

[MALIFAX]

12 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Don't yell at me about it - I was just clarifying what Whirly said.  

If you want to yell, go open a support ticket and yell at LL.

I wasn't yelling, I forgot to put smileys, this was just to indicate the non-sens of such a procedure that is just a kill-joy to me ;)

[nikita Jefferson]

MBEATRIX    you asked "Are you using the EEP project viewer?"

Yes when i opened the sl viewer the update was there and the EEP documentation was there , so yes i was using the EEP sl viewer when i had that failed teleport from my homestead to our mainland airport .

My partner uses the alchemy viewer and she went ok , i will say once i relogged back in and tried to teleport again , it went ok 

[MBeatrix]

46 minutes ago, nikita Jefferson said:

MBEATRIX    you asked "Are you using the EEP project viewer?"

Yes when i opened the sl viewer the update was there and the EEP documentation was there , so yes i was using the EEP sl viewer when i had that failed teleport from my homestead to our mainland airport .

My partner uses the alchemy viewer and she went ok , i will say once i relogged back in and tried to teleport again , it went ok 

What you wrote just adds to my suspicion that EPP may not be the culprit.
One thing is sure: there's something very wrong, and it's becoming ridiculous.

[EDIT] And it seems to have gotten worse — I can't now bypass the TP issue the way I explained a few posts back nor any other way.

[EDIT 2] Inara Pey has the available info about it: https://modemworld.me/2019/04/02/2019-sl-user-groups-14-1-sug-teleport-disconnects/

Edited April 3, 2019 by MBeatrix
adding more info

[Whirly Fizzle]

There is a potential fix for the teleport disconnects that was rolled to all 3 RC servers today - BlueSteel, Magnum & LeTigre.
Is anyone still able to reproduce the teleport disconnects when TPing between two RC regions?
If all goes well with this potential fix, I expect it will be rolled to the main channel regions next Tuesday.

NOTE!
If you are a Singularity viewer user, there is another bug affecting Singularity that is causing a disconnect ~ every 15 minutes &/or teleport disconnects.
This is a separate bug with a different cause to the one filed at BUG-226577 - TPs (Teleports) causing Grid Disconnects and grey screen QUITS
Singularity have a proposed fix for this Singularity specific bug in their latest viewer build that can be downloaded here: https://virtual-nexus.xyz/down/
As far as I'm aware this Singularity fix will not fix the main TP disconnect bug that's affecting all viewers though.

[nikita Jefferson]

I was going to post that i downloaded firestorm and it  is pretty well identical to singularity and i would be happy using that, i have been in a while with all avys of mine , that makes 3 of us , i teleported from my homestead to the mainland  air strip , that went ok , after a while i went to teleport back to my homestead, well it hung so i stopped it but i couldn't move so had to log out .

Anyway i saw Whirly Fizzle's post and i will try that singularity download , if it doesn't work i think i will be happy with firestorm , what i like about both of them is the 1024 m draw, instead of the SL viewer and Alchemy 512 m draw , i will add though i did find Singularity hopeless for flying even before this latest problem of sim crossing and being logged out , i found  the viewer froze a lot on sim crossings and i got dumped to the ocean floor ,

I had used singularity to build the mainland airport and also the marina with no problem , but last week when i tried to do some runway work the FPS dropped to around 1 and i could hardly move so i had to use Alchemy 

Thanks Whirly Fizzle 

Edited April 3, 2019 by nikita Jefferson
further info on link

[nikita Jefferson]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whirly Fizzle

I tried that singularity viewer build at the link you gave , not sure what you do with it , its a bunch of files and not a viewer download , ,when i click the download it asks what program do i want to open them

I just did a flight on our mainland air strip , i used Firestorm , first run was ok , second run i came over edge of runway to land and froze then a short time later i was logged out , i didn't fly anymore after that , tomorrow night i will be doing more 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by nikita Jefferson
update

[Fluf Fredriksson]

Well since the great *maybe a fix* only rolled out to LeTigre, Bluesteel and Magnum servers, even if it does fix the EEP related problems, sim crossings are still messed up, and for general SL use, TP's are still messed up for many users (but not all? Huh?).

I know of some users who don't seem to have any trouble with sim crossings and TP's. They are mystified why I keep disconnecting. Until now I've fallen back to using a viewer that has no clue at all about Windlight/EEP, and that was working ok ... until today after the updates to LeTigre, Bluesteel and Magnum servers. It could just be coincidence, but I'm back to significantly high sim crossing failures again, but now I get them even when I use a non-windlight capable viewer! YAY! (raises fist!) "Progress!" Maybe because the fix is only rolled out to some servers? Who knows!? But it ain't good.

The whole thing is a mess. It doesn't make logical sense to blame the sim code alone when some users are having no problems, but others are disconnecting regularly.

Also rolling the fix out to some servers and then asking users to test it is just crazy. A list of say 12 of each kind of server for people to hop around would have been helpful for the truly dedicated? I gave up. Trying to randomly TP to find Bluesteel servers I kept disconnecting, and since I can't comment on the JIRA entry anyway (LL support ticket still waiting to find out why on that one). What's the point in me trying to test it?

And the icing on the cake? Even if this was 100% fixed tomorrow. We'd still have messed up skies, lighting models that change from sim to sim, and mainland day time all over the place for months.

It's a complete and utter mess up from just about any angle you care to look at it.

EDIT: And it just gets better. Apparently I disconnected so much that the account I was using got locked out for around 5 hours (and yes apparently it means it). I've never seen that before in all the years I've been in SL. Also I've noticed that when someone gets disconnected on one of these new failures, they appear to still be logged in for hours (until you send them an IM in fact). This doesn't just look like an EEP problem, this looks like something is probably also messed up on the account servers. (Or the EEP errors are so bad and continue for so long without proper disconnect that they are messing up the account servers?).

Anyway. It's the first night in a long time I just give up on loading up SL. Until this gets fixed it's just a nightmare.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Fluf Fredriksson
Got locked out of SL after the new "fix"

[MBeatrix]

8 hours ago, Fluf Fredriksson said:

[...]

EDIT: And it just gets better. Apparently I disconnected so much that the account I was using got locked out for around 5 hours (and yes apparently it means it). I've never seen that before in all the years I've been in SL. Also I've noticed that when someone gets disconnected on one of these new failures, they appear to still be logged in for hours (until you send them an IM in fact). This doesn't just look like an EEP problem, this looks like something is probably also messed up on the account servers. (Or the EEP errors are so bad and continue for so long without proper disconnect that they are messing up the account servers?).

[...]

As weird as it may sound, recovering from my disconnects has been much different. Even different from those in the past.

Typically, when we are disconnected due to a bad crossing or TP failure, it takes at least a couple minutes before we can log back in, and we either get a message telling us to retry within a few minutes or the exact time when we can do it again. But now, every time I am disconnected I can log back in immediately. I mean, I close Firestorm, start it again as soon as it closes and log in without any delay.

Edited April 4, 2019 by MBeatrix
corrections

[Fluf Fredriksson]

2 hours ago, MBeatrix said:

As weird as it may sound, recovering from my disconnects has been much different. Even different from those in the past.

 

No that doesn't sound weird at all! Usually I ignore the specific time to log in messages as well, and it all works fine. Not this time. When I could eventually try to log in, it got stuck on "Requesting region capabilities", so I had to log in to a random sim name instead of "Last location". So it appears perhaps my saved account details didn't know which region I was in? New to me, and yes, definitely different.

[MBeatrix]

17 minutes ago, Fluf Fredriksson said:

 

No that doesn't sound weird at all! Usually I ignore the specific time to log in messages as well, and it all works fine. Not this time. When I could eventually try to log in, it got stuck on "Requesting region capabilities", so I had to log in to a random sim name instead of "Last location". So it appears perhaps my saved account details didn't know which region I was in? New to me, and yes, definitely different.

Indeed! And like you I'm now suspecting that part of the problem may be with the login service due to so many login attempts after so many disconnects. But the thing is, what is causing teleport failures and such bad sim crossings? LL's network issues? Redundant code delaying the hand-off? I have no idea, I can only tell what I am experiencing.

Almost always, I try re-logging as quickly as possible at the place where I was disconnected (so that I can retrieve the vehicle I was on, if SL hasn't "eaten" it.) So, as I wrote above, typically the system tells me the region is still logging me out and that I should retry within a few minutes, but that's not what is happening now.

[EDIT] I mentioned this in a previous post to this thread, but let me remind you: many times, despite trying to login at the last place I was, I end up being logged at one I previously were. Sometimes, that can be 3, 4 or 5 regions back.

Edited April 4, 2019 by MBeatrix
adding more info