Gacha category? or still just dump everywhere...

[Bebe Bunny]

I feel like as much as the gacha category is nice, it should have subcategories with almost all of existing categories inside it to better separate items since gachas go from decoration to apparel, hairs, accessories, all that kind of stuff and having it all under a single category makes it more messy than when it was under a specific category like "female clothing > tops" or something like that.

[Tari Landar]

It seems, to me, that coding in (including, I'm certain someone already has the code written) a tick/option box for *merchants to "mark as Gacha" * is a far better option which would solve nearly all complaints and needs from as many sides of the fence as we seem to have in sl. Well, much better than adding in yet another category that is merely optional(and it is, to be frank for a minute, because why not) and is going to continue to cause eye rolls and flustered merchants, and shoppers, that can't make heads or tails of why the category was added at all if it's purely optional, since it literally appeases no sides of the fence......phew, nice run on there. 

Speaking purely from a programming perspective, both tasks are, well, to be blunt, easy to accomplish and can be done in relatively the same amount of time. From a business perspective, I'd go with whichever option both appeases the most and pisses off the least-with room for growth in the future. From a PR standpoint...uh...duh ^

Scratches head...this entire one has me confused. I am neither impressed nor, would it be depressed, ok unimpressed, by this particular change. I am also not even remotely affected by it. But, I'm kinda wondering where the lightbulb moment happened when THIS was the proposed solution to the whole "we like/hate gacha" war, and everyone else agreed. 

Ok, ok, I'll be nice...if someone can explain why this is better than the alternative I described, please do (and yes I'm being serious, not a smartass)

*Then it could also be used as a search option  

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tari Landar

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Limited Quantity means No Copy. 

Every product listing on the Marketplace that is No Copy will show as Limited Quantity. 

I have never thought the term "No Copy" = "Limited Quantity".   To me, Limited Quantity means that there are a limited number "available to buy, regardless of the permissions" - not that I will only have a limited quantity after I buy it simply because I cannot make a copy.  

I would gather, that if you polled the Residents, the vast majority think of the terms pretty much the way I do.

[MirandaBowers]

7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I have never thought the term "No Copy" = "Limited Quantity".   To me, Limited Quantity means that there are a limited number

I agree with this completely. I had always assumed the same thing.

[Bebe Bunny]

28 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I have never thought the term "No Copy" = "Limited Quantity".   To me, Limited Quantity means that there are a limited number "available to buy, regardless of the permissions" - not that I will only have a limited quantity after I buy it simply because I cannot make a copy.  

I would gather, that if you polled the Residents, the vast majority think of the terms pretty much the way I do.

There are stores that sell no copy items that are not limited, like Pamella Galli's store, she sell dinning chairs and other pieces as no copy but they are not limited in quantity. It is true that when you send a single no copy item to marketplace (one that you already got as no copy and don't have full perms over it) it goes as limited quantity.

[Blush Bravin]

I have to agree, I never thought limited quantity had anything to do with permissions, it simply meant there were a certain number to be sold and once those were gone the item was retired never to be sold again. This is a very common practice with full perm template sellers, but it also is used for special releases or events. We used to have a regular in world shopping event that had limited quantities sold. Once they were gone they were gone, period. Nearly all of those items were copy items. 

So, I do think there's some confusion on the terminology. The thing is that gachas aren't necessarily limited quantity items (unless the gacha was retired after the event, typically they are simply no copy items). Just because there aren't any available now doesn't mean there won't be latter. Also, most of the time those gacha machines are still located in world so again in reality the item isn't a true limited quantity. Just because one seller only has one to sell IMO does not make the item limited quantity. 

I honestly don't think there's a win in this dilemma. It's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. I'm just glad it's not my job to figure it out.  

Edited December 8, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Ethan Paslong]

12 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

 Your personal opinion, my personal opinion, the personal opinion of anyone else does not matter. 

What matters and what counts and what applies and what we use in determining whether or not a Product Listing is in a wrong category/sub-category is what is listed in the Legal Documents that we ALL agree to abide by in the Terms of Service, Terms of Use, and related policies, including the Marketplace Listing Guidelines. 

We will not, based on "personal opinion"

this response makes me think you are on a total different thread than this one because it's not  about what this thread is meant to be and posted about. Nobody here talked about action on personal opinion.

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Tari Landar]

I think the whole "we don't define limited quantity the same as you" thing, centers around one very important fact.....Dakota is focusing answers around objects people want to list which are no copy to *them (gachas are a good comparison here, but it could be anything). Of course if you have a no copy, but yes trans items, you can sell it if you so choose, but it's going to be limited quantity (giant duh here, I think we all understand this part). 

What everyone else was talking about, is simply listing an item that is no copy to *everyone else.

There' actually a big distinction between the two, and since neither side seems to be making it super clear which one they're referring to, I can only hope my interpretations are correct. Items that are no copy TO THE PERSON SELLING THEM, will always be limited quantity on the MP (not in totality, just from that seller, on that mp, lol). Items that are not no copy to the seller, but the seller wants to limit the number, can also be limited quantity (anything can be, regardless of permissions). Items that are yes copy TO THE PERSON SELLING THEM, that the seller does not want to limit the number of sales, are not limited quantity.  These are being used interchangeably, and it's confusing some, apparently, lol. 

Anything that is no copy, is often referred to as no copy, regardless of other permissions, where the person got it, what it is, etc....No copy does NOT equate with limited quantity, except in one particular instance, wherein it has to. So, nope, no copy isn't always limited quantity, lol..and the part where Dakota said every item that is listed as no copy would show as limited quantity, is actually not accurate. It is only accurate when the item begins by being no copy to the seller *before the seller can then sell the item , or resell if applicable,  (again, like most gachas, they make a good example, but it's not limited to them). I'm fairly certain that line is back where things got confused, lol.

Though my other point in my other post still stands..this became unnecessarily confusing for literally no reason at all, aside from a misunderstanding of what "no copy" means. That's a bit worrisome to me, an sl user, considering how very important understanding these concepts is, coupled with the idea that there are people working with the MP(back end, LL side) that don't even understand the basics. It makes total sense why the MP hasn't really been repaired in all these years and why LL has to play catch up(or is playing anyway) on repairs, updates, upgrades, changes, etc.. for the MP., they don't understand it themselves, how could they possibly remedy issues. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tari Landar

[LittleMe Jewell]

46 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

I think the whole "we don't define limited quantity the same as you" thing, centers around one very important fact.....Dakota is focusing answers around objects people want to list which are no copy to *them (gachas are a good comparison here, but it could be anything). Of course if you have a no copy, but yes trans items, you can sell it if you so choose, but it's going to be limited quantity (giant duh here, I think we all understand this part). 

What everyone else was talking about, is simply listing an item that is no copy to *everyone else.

There' actually a big distinction between the two, and since neither side seems to be making it super clear which one they're referring to, I can only hope my interpretations are correct. Items that are no copy TO THE PERSON SELLING THEM, will always be limited quantity on the MP (not in totality, just from that seller, on that mp, lol). Items that are not no copy to the seller, but the seller wants to limit the number, can also be limited quantity (anything can be, regardless of permissions). Items that are yes copy TO THE PERSON SELLING THEM, that the seller does not want to limit the number of sales, are not limited quantity.  These are being used interchangeably, and it's confusing some, apparently, lol. 

Except that Dakota specifically said that you could filter out any Limited Quantity item by checking the Copy box to eliminate No Copy permission items.  However, checking that box is eliminating items that will be No Copy to the Buyer, regardless of what the permissions are for the Seller.

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Except that Dakota specifically said that you could filter out any Limited Quantity item by checking the Copy box to eliminate No Copy permission items.  However, checking that box is eliminating items that will be No Copy to the Buyer, regardless of what the permissions are for the Seller.

I know, hence why I said it became unnecessarily confusing, for literally no reason at all.

[Fionalein]

21 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

I agree with this completely. I had always assumed the same thing.

And there is, some stores like a famous vehicle store sell copy enabled special vehicles as limited quantity. No idea if the MP allows this though.

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

And there is, some stores like a famous vehicle store sell copy enabled special vehicles as limited quantity. No idea if the MP allows this though.

It does, you can make *anything listed as limited quantity, permissions has nothing at all to do with it, really.

[HunniHope]

from the KB page 

"Note that while it is still possible to sell a limited quantity of copiable items using the appropriate listing field"

 

that sentence in and of itself says to me that Limited Quantity means Limited Quantity not no-Copy

[Blush Bravin]

I think this needs a more refined definition because any time anyone is selling a no-copy item that item is limited quantity to them and to them ONLY. Just because something is no copy doesn't mean that the item is from a limited quantity release. IMO only those items, where the supply has been terminated, should be considered as limited quantity.  Limited quantity items by their nature are more valuable than regular items. There is a certain amount of prestige associate with a limited quantity item. So labeling no-copy unlimited supply gacha items as limited quantity is misleading IMO.

[Callum Meriman]

On 12/8/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dakota Linden said:

So you want to eliminate seeing any and all items that do not have Unlimited Quantities available, regardless of the permissions

Optionally eleminate. Yes, because it's the only "hack" that will allow us to browse the marketplace without seeing pages and pages of the same spam.

On 12/8/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dakota Linden said:

All No Copy items, including Gacha items are Limited Quantity items.

No, this is not the case Dakota! A person can create something themselves and make the permissions No Copy - they can sell unlimited copies of this item. Or people can swamp the market with no-copy items that they have bought from other people. These are limited quantity, they can only sell as many as they have obtained. Resales be they used items no longer wanted, or the bulk - gatcha - fall into this category.

Created No copy items, do not.

On 12/8/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dakota Linden said:

Some template creators/sellers may set a restriction on how many items can be purchased by putting in the number available, which makes them Limited Quantity, even if they are Copy Enabled.

Absolutely, and people who wish to browse for limited artwork, limited full perm mesh, limited vehicle paints can. The default for this optional restriction is show them. However, everyone who wants to shop for the vast bulk of non-gatcha items can toggle it off and bypass the pages and pages of useless spam.

On 12/8/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dakota Linden said:

that can be done by checking the Copy option after a search is done

This doesn't work. There is way more stuff that is created and set to no copy. Sex furniture is one example.

Limited quantity is closer to the optimum. Optionally losing a few full perm items, or a few artworks is a small price to pay.

On 12/8/2018 at 4:14 AM, Dakota Linden said:

you are willing to punish sellers by hiding their Full Perm, but restricted sales, items?

Throwing this one back at you Dakota, why is the lab punishing people trying to innocently browse the marketplace with pages of this useless gatcha spam? It's a blight, it wastes our time and it's not enjoyable.

Why won't the Lab find a proper solution - like add a new field [x] Gatcha - that listing people MUST tick, and then let us filter properly?

Why are the lab punishing people who don't want to see gatcha spam?

Now that I've thrown that "punishment" back at you, a Limited Quantity filter is not perfect, but because the Lab can't offer us a decent and proper solution it's the only way we can come up with to hack one together. As it's optional and off by default those people selling limited quantity items they create won't be punished.

Those who are reselling gatcha and spamming us, harassing us with pages and pages of the same item can be hidden.

Don't like my idea, then PLEASE, PLEASE fix it properly. But please do something, anything, so we can hide this useless spam.

[Fionalein]

Limited quantity is a technical term. This gacha reseller only has a certain number of items to resell - not misleading to me.

[Fionalein]

14 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

This doesn't work. There is way more stuff that is created and set to no copy. Sex furniture is one example.

Works for me - I never buy that inferior no copy stuff anyways.

16 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Why won't the Lab find a proper solution - like add a new field [x] Gatcha - that listing people MUST tick, and then let us filter properly?

Can you imagine the backlash on previoulsy put on sale items or resellers to stupid to adapt to changing rules of the game? Nope, not gonna happen.

[Blush Bravin]

The way you are using the term limited quantity it is not a description of the item for sale but the sellers supply of the item. I really think this is misleading. For instance, if I were going to buy a particular limited edition hair and the supply was limited to only 5 items, that product would be far more valuable than one that has no cut off as to how many can be sold. I believe a category should describe the item being sold. Shoes in shoes, clothes in clothes, etc. The fact the a person has only one of those for sale doesn't mean a darn thing to me. I don't care if they have 1 or 200 unless it is a TRUE limited edition and I'm going to pay a premium price for it. I want to know what the product is not how many a person has to sell. @Dakota Linden when did limited quantity stop meaning the same as limited edition?

If you want to fix what you deem to be a problem, then find another solution. This one doesn't work IMO. We have the same spam problem when creators release an item in 20 colors. Get a few doing that at the same time and you have the same result. 

@Callum Meriman I still don't understand why you can't use the NOT exception in the field when you search. It might not be perfect but it works pretty well if you spell the word correctly. And if you say that people get around that by gaming the system, think about it. Anything you come up with now people will find a way to game it and you're still going to end up with gachas where you don't want to see them.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Callum Meriman]

33 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

 

@Callum Meriman I still don't understand why you can't use the NOT exception in the field when you search. It might not be perfect but it works pretty well if you spell the word correctly

sorry Blush "NOT gacha" doesn't work. Picking a word at random "cyber":

Edited December 10, 2018 by Callum Meriman
Made the .gif even longer

[Blush Bravin]

@Callum Meriman  @Dakota Linden

 

I am going to rescind my opinion after taking a look at some of the listings marked "limited quantity" in the Marketplace.  It's just a catch all for everything. It basically means nothing. I just hope that gachas don't get thrown into that mess. 

[Blush Bravin]

12 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

sorry Blush "NOT gacha" doesn't work. Picking a word at random:

nevermind

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

What word did you use? So I can run the same search.

Cetainly: "cyber NOT gacha" set it to newest first which is how I like to shop when I desire to see the freshest releases.

Then do

"kimono NOT gacha" wanting to see if there are some new styles, and you will see this:

Pretty much pick any word. You will always find 2 pages of gatcha spam. It's out of control.

Culling limited quantity would mean we were not punished by this endless junk, and we could shop and buy without frustration.

[Blush Bravin]

My results from the same search. I don't know why you are getting so many gachas.

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

My results from the same search. I don't know why you are getting so many gachas.

Change from RELEVANCE to NEWEST FIRST.

[Blush Bravin]

I didn't set to newest first .. never do. That might be why. Let me test.