Gacha category? or still just dump everywhere...

[Callum Meriman]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

I didn't set to newest first .. never do. That might be why. Let me test.

yeah, if you don't you only see the same old same old. You will never get to see fresh items.

[Blush Bravin]

Now I'm seeing what you're seeing. I can't help but notice that one of the merchants has listed a separate listing for the identical same gacha instead of doing one listing with all the copies in that same listing. That doesn't help. I've helped a few people with their listings when they didn't realize they could put copies of the same item in the same folder.

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

yeah, if you don't you only see the same old same old. You will never get to see fresh items.

I don't ever window shop the marketplace. I do my window shopping in FB or Flickr or through group notices so relevance doesn't mean anything to me. When I go looking for something on the marketplace I typically know exactly what I'm looking for from doing my research elsewhere.

[Callum Meriman]

That 1 listing per item instead of loading them all into the same folder is very common. And it adds the the punishment the Lab are doling out to us.

[Blush Bravin]

Okay here is an idea that has been going through my head. I don't know if it's even feasible but it could make life easier. So you know how we all would like it if merchants could do one listing and then have the color choices available on that listing instead of doing a separate listing for all the colors? Well, what if something like that could be done for gachas. So one listing for a gacha, period! Then anyone who is selling a product of that gacha has their listing go under that original listing. So you see a gacha you're interested in. You click on that and a page comes up with all the listings for that item. Might be totally not doable. But it could make life easier.

[ErikaKotov]

Oh my God that would be a great idea that's like going into a regular MMO game and checking the auction house seeing all the listings of that one item with variance prices from different sellers.

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Okay here is an idea that has been going through my head. I don't know if it's even feasible but it could make life easier. So you know how we all would like it if merchants could do one listing and then have the color choices available on that listing instead of doing a separate listing for all the colors? Well, what if something like that could be done for gachas. So one listing for a gacha, period! Then anyone who is selling a product of that gacha has their listing go under that original listing. So you see a gacha you're interested in. You click on that and a page comes up with all the listings for that item. Might be totally not doable. But it could make life easier.

Or they could take the route that is literally the easiest, less costly(consider all resources, not simply financial) and will appease far more people than any solution thus far(and this is a solution that was made right after Gachas started hitting the grid, so, it's been a while, lol). Simply add a set of tickboxes, checkboxes, whatever you want to call it, that merchant *must* select before they can list an item. "Gacha", "not Gacha". There, problem almost entirely solved. People looking for gachas can find them SUPER simple with this option. People that want to exclude them, can do that SUPER simple too. 

Of course you'll have the odd ones that say it's not a gacha when it is, but I have a feeling, by making this a *requirement for listing purposes, there will be a lot less folks trying to "game" or get around this kind of system.

I dunno why they keep shooting this down, and instead attempting to replace it with some other kind of solution that, at best, might appease a very select group of people in sl, when they have a simple solution. It is NOT any more difficult to code this kind of option in, than it is to add a gacha category that is *always going to be optional. Who the hell is going to use it if they aren't forced to, when the item is more likely to be seen elsewhere-since most people probably have no clue there even IS a gacha category now, lol?

I said this doesn't affect me, and it really doesn't, except for the fact that this is one of those LL moves that isn't one step forward two steps back, but a HUGE leap backwards...and no one else seems to know where they were aiming to land, but we all know they missed the mark by miles. 

[Fionalein]

4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I didn't set to newest first .. never do. That might be why. Let me test.

I only ever do within a merchants store myself, true. I never saw the gacha problem either.

[Callum Meriman]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

I dunno why they keep shooting this down, and instead attempting to replace it with some other kind of solution that, at best, might appease a very select group of people in sl, when they have a simple solution.

Money, I'd guess.

 

[Tari Landar]

Just now, Callum Meriman said:

Money, I'd guess.

 

Possibly, except, if that IS the case, their thinking is backasswards. It would cost less, in all resources, to implement the option  mentioned, since the code is literally already in place(already being used for the perms, for example) , just needs duplicated with the proper info.  Customer service wouldn't take as much of a hit, because there won't be fifty million new flags (ok, I exaggerate, you get my point I'm sure, lol) from people reporting things for not being in the right category. People ARE going to do that, even if LL tells them not to because that category is optional. There are enough people around, on both sides of the fence, miffed with this whole gacha debacle, to make customer service on those flags alone a complete and utter headache that LL simply can't handle. 

I just don't get it, lol. I'm extremely critical at times of LL, though I do give props when I feel warranted, but this whole thing really does have me scratching my head. I'm trying to figure out how anyone would even validate the mere selection of adding in an optional category as being a solution to the ever present problem. I literally cannot think of one singular reason(and I usually can, whether or not it changes my mind) why this choice was made. It didn't cost less, in any amount of resources. It didn't appease pretty much anyone. The category itself is 100% optional, which pretty much renders it pointless. It didn't help to clear any amount of clutter. It's going to cost LL in reports/flags. There is literally no benefit to anyone..not residents, not merchants, not creators, not shoppers, not even LL, lol. 

[Callum Meriman]

1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

Possibly, except, if that IS the case, their thinking is backasswards. It would cost less, in all resources, to implement the option  mentioned

Ah no, Tari, I mean the Lab earn a lot of money from gacha gambling. There is a sizable cohort who spend a lot of USD hoping to strike it rich with a rare jackpot. I used to have one as a SL-Brother. They put the spins up on the MP, it sells, they cash it out. At each point of this the Lab are taking a cut.

I'm currently thinking that if the Lab give us a way to avoid the MP spam, the gacha fanatics lose the impulse buy, and the Lab lose their cut.

That's the only reason I can think for the Lab not wanting this, and Dakota suggesting we would be punishing people.

[Tari Landar]

5 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Ah no, Tari, I mean the Lab earn a lot of money from gacha gambling. There is a sizable cohort who spend a lot of USD hoping to strike it rich with a rare jackpot. I used to have one as a SL-Brother. They put the spins up on the MP, it sells, they cash it out. At each point of this the Lab are taking a cut.

I'm currently thinking that if the Lab give us a way to avoid the MP spam, the gacha fanatics lose the impulse buy, and the Lab lose their cut.

That's the only reason I can think for the Lab not wanting this, and Dakota suggesting we would be punishing people.

Gotcha, that makes more sense, lol. Still a really, really, stupid reason, but I understand what you meant now  

[Fionalein]

18 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Ah no, Tari, I mean the Lab earn a lot of money from gacha gambling. There is a sizable cohort who spend a lot of USD hoping to strike it rich with a rare jackpot. I used to have one as a SL-Brother. They put the spins up on the MP, it sells, they cash it out. At each point of this the Lab are taking a cut.

I'm currently thinking that if the Lab give us a way to avoid the MP spam, the gacha fanatics lose the impulse buy, and the Lab lose their cut.

That's the only reason I can think for the Lab not wanting this, and Dakota suggesting we would be punishing people.

Not sure if this is gambling or a service. A lot of us are tired of playing for a gacha, even those willing to accept a no copy item. So they willingly pay double price to immediatelly get the colour they want. Gacha resellers provide the Gacha creators with a constant flow of money, by taking the risk wether a thing sells or not away from the creators to the resellers. They invest money and if they choose right they earn well by bulk buying and giving people what they originally wanted. I am sure without the service provided by resellers the gacha fad would by now have broken away.

When you can establish gamling as a service... another one of those "only in SL" moments.

 

[Paul Hexem]

Wait. 

We added a gacha category, but no one has to use it?

What's the point of that? That's stupid.

[Blush Bravin]

On 12/10/2018 at 2:32 AM, Fionalein said:

So they willingly pay double price to immediatelly get the colour they want.

I never pay double the pull price for a gacha. I pay pull price or lower. I don't buy rares period. I might try an actual machine if I want a rare. I will pull a maximum of 3 times and then stop. But that is extremely rare as there are very few rares that I actually want. 

Though there have been a couple of times when I wanted a rare bad enough that I played far longer than I should have, in those cases I have sold the extras for pull price or lower myself  (Debi) on the Marketplace. 

On 12/10/2018 at 2:32 AM, Fionalein said:

I am sure without the service provided by resellers the gacha fad would by now have broken away.

I agree. Gachas would still be around but I too doubt they'd be here to the magnitude they are now. That's another reason why the Lab would be foolish to harm the gacha market by relegating it to some dark hole category in the marketplace.

[Solar Legion]

The solution is simple, yes ... but it isn't anything at all to do with adding in check boxes.

1. Move all Gacha/Gatcha items into the Gatchas category - yes, all of them.
   1. Give said category several basic sub-categories.
   2. Remove any/all found outside said category - no matter when they were listed, no exceptions.
2. Code in the ability to exclude entire categories and sub-categories from Search Results/General Display.

Simple? Yep, for end users anyway. Likely not for the coders. Time consuming? Certainly parts of it would be, yes.

It's certainly a bit more worthwhile than trying to add in new sub-categories for varied Fantasy Races, especially since it would appear that said endeavor is a bit ... skewed.

[Blush Bravin]

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Move all Gacha/Gatcha items into the Gatchas category - yes, all of them.

NO!

 

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Remove any/all found outside said category - no matter when they were listed, no exceptions.

NO!

 

This boils down to a prejudice against gachas in general. They are products for sale as any other. They belong in the category that fits what the object is and not how it is sold. Period. To force everyone who ever listed a gacha correctly in the proper item category to have to relist their items is ridiculous.

[Solar Legion]

Oh dear ....

Calm yourself.

There is no "prejudice" here - at all. That is you reading your own reaction into my response. Nothing more and nothing less.

They have a Category: Gatcha. That is where they belong. That is the "proper category" - and nowhere did I say anything about forcing anyone to relist. Read what I wrote - move them all. That means all existing Gatchas get moved, by the Lindens. After that, further listings outside the proper Category get removed.

You may disagree all you'd like but do not pretend for a single second that what you believe is reality nor that what you read into another's post is what has actually been said.

ETA: To make something a bit clearer - I shop for Gatcha items myself on rare occasion. Funny thing about it? I've always had the thought that they'd be easier to find and manage in general if they were all in their own Category.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Solar Legion]

And like clockwork ...

[Blush Bravin]

32 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

nowhere did I say anything about forcing anyone to relist.

 

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Remove any/all found outside said category - no matter when they were listed, no exceptions

If you remove, no exceptions, that will force relisting. 

 

32 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

They have a Category: Gatcha. That is where they belong. That is the "proper category"

I've been vocal about my opinion on having a gacha category in the first place. But it's here, so it's reality, but it's not the only place for gacha items as per Dakota's statement on the first page. 

 

[Blush Bravin]

On 12/4/2018 at 3:19 PM, Dakota Linden said:

If a Gacha item is in an appropriate category, then we will not be taking any action against the Product Listing.

As an example, if a Gacha item is a Mask, and it is in the Masks category, please do not report the item as we will not be forcing the seller to move the item.

 

[Solar Legion]

Read what I wrote - not what you want it to mean.

Dakota's statement is little more than a statement of intent - it is not a statement of fact. They have no intent to actually move all existing Gatcha listings into the new category. That does not mean they belong where they are currently sitting.

[Solar Legion]

Laugh all you'd like.

It really doesn't change anything.

You read your own reactions into what I wrote and assumed a meaning that was not present - at all. When it was made clear to you, you persisted with your erroneous assumption.

You even added to it by pretending a statement of intent was something far more.

You may disagree if you wish: That is your prerogative. It really does not change what has been stated thus far however nor am I going to see things your way.

[Ethan Paslong]

37 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

about my opinion

as DL responded, you have no opinion, you have the rules, guidelines and marketplace regulations, other things don't matter

[Blush Bravin]

26 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

nor am I going to see things your way.

My intent is not to have you see things my way, but more to champion those who sell and want to buy gachas without being hindered. I am simply adding my voice to the conversation. I disagree with you and you disagree with me. That's fine. We all have a voice in the conversation.