Hacking in Land

[e7ssas]

Greetings,

My friend has owned land and always getting hacking from out side of his land since he's geeting crash all the time not solved from SL yet. Can you advise how can we help him.

 

Regards,

[Cindy Evanier]

3 minutes ago, e7ssas said:

Greetings,

My friend has owned land and always getting hacking from out side of his land since he's geeting crash all the time not solved from SL yet. Can you advise how can we help him.

 

Regards,

what do you mean by getting hacked?  What exactly is the problem?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

what do you mean by getting hacked?  What exactly is the problem?

Maybe viewer crashing due to griefer textures, or complexity not supported by OP’s pc?

[e7ssas]

He always getting crash from his land I heard that hacker is using IP number for his land out of SL to crash his group and i am not sure. How can we help him.

[Lindal Kidd]

What you're saying doesn't make any sense.  Land doesn't have an IP address, and groups cannot be crashed.

But in any case, "crashing all the time" does not necessarily mean the problem is hackers.  It's more likely that your friend has connection problems, computer problems, or has been hit by some of the outages that Second Life has been experiencing over the last week.  Or maybe some of each.

It would probably be best if your friend could post here directly, and give us some more details about what's going on.

[e7ssas]

I thought the same think Lindal Kidd until i saw it anyway if you want to see you can visit that land or if you guide me who suppose to contact with to solve his issue.

NOTE: landen labs came to his land without solving his issue. 

[Cindy Evanier]

6 minutes ago, e7ssas said:

I thought the same think Lindal Kidd until i saw it anyway if you want to see you can visit that land or if you guide me who suppose to contact with to solve his issue.

NOTE: landen labs came to his land without solving his issue. 

If linden lab are aware and investigating.  That is where he should be directing his questions.

[e7ssas]

That was almost 2 years up to now still the issue not closing yet.

[Lindal Kidd]

I'm sorry the problem has been going on so long.  But if LL can't solve the problem, and your friend is sure it's not something in her computer or her internet connection, there's not really much we can do about it here!

[e7ssas]

Ok thank all and i really appreciate your support

[Whirly Fizzle]

3 hours ago, JessieStanwick said:

and also a lot of them area scripters who use firestorm. LSL scripting able to hack the viewer and grief you.

I was mostly curious what you meant by this....
What is an "area scripter who uses Firestorm" ?

[Lindal Kidd]

I think Jessie is giving us an SL version of "Star Trek Technobabble"...words that sound cool, but don't actually make any sense.

[Rolig Loon]

4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

What is an "area scripter who uses Firestorm" ?

I'm pretty sure that's a typo.  As one who makes more than her own fair share of typos, I think I recognize one when I see it.  Take a look ...

7 hours ago, JessieStanwick said:

this problem is unfortunately common among griefers. they use huds and also a lot of them area scripters who use firestorm.

The part that doesn't make sense is the bit about "they use HUDs."  Everyone uses HUDs, after all.  There's nothing evil about using HUDs. Or about using Firestorm, for that matter.  More people use Firestorm than use the standard LL viewer.  I'm willing to bet that includes the majority of scripters, too.  ( Disclosure: I use Firestorm at least some of the time and I spend a lot of time every week scripting. )   There's a tenuous web of innuendo and disconnected information in the post.  There are certainly griefers in SL, and there are certainly many nasty things that you can do to with LSL scripts or by modifying your viewer code.  There's quite a leap from that to the scary conclusion that "this problem is unfortunately common among griefers."

[JessieStanwick]

11 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

I'm pretty sure that's a typo.  As one who makes more than her own fair share of typos, I think I recognize one when I see it.  Take a look ...

The part that doesn't make sense is the bit about "they use HUDs."  Everyone uses HUDs, after all.  There's nothing evil about using HUDs. Or about using Firestorm, for that matter.  More people use Firestorm than use the standard LL viewer.  I'm willing to bet that includes the majority of scripters, too.  ( Disclosure: I use Firestorm at least some of the time and I spend a lot of time every week scripting. )   There's a tenuous web of innuendo and disconnected information in the post.  There are certainly griefers in SL, and there are certainly many nasty things that you can do to with LSL scripts or by modifying your viewer code.  There's quite a leap from that to the scary conclusion that "this problem is unfortunately common among griefers."

You are correct it was a typo, sometimes a human is capable of making a mistake. also to be exactly clear because it seems that people need led by the hand, huds like the combat huds and other where you can track and locate people, control their viewers, chat spy, and even make your own "attacks". also, lsl scripters do in fact create scripts to greif people, not all mind you in case you want to make a reference to "well that doesn't mean all scripters are bad"

it seems people who reply to some forum posts just want to brush off any concerns other people have about the game. i wonder why that is? why not help people understand and you explain exactly why the huds and lsl scripting wont work? why is that confusing?

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, JessieStanwick said:

it seems people who reply to some forum posts just want to brush off any concerns other people have about the game.

It's not a matter of brushing off concerns but of clarifying them.  There are some things that LSL scripters cannot do, like control your viewer.  We don't have that capability.  Scripters can create devices to push you, drop things on you, track you, and do all sorts of things that can be used for griefing (as well as for a number of perfectly good things, depending on the context).  When scripts are used to annoy or harrass people, you should indeed submit Abuse Reports. 

The part that I take issue with is the implication that this is "common" or at least common enough to be a matter of serious concern.  That's a hard one to justify because it's subjective and situational.  I am not aware of any statistics to tell us how frequently people encounter griefers, and how many of them are using scripted devices.  For every person who says that griefing is a common and serious problem, you can find many others (like me) who haven't seen a griefer in years.  People also differ greatly about what they consider "griefing".  I think that the responsible reaction is to say quite honestly that griefing does occur, and not to either dismiss it or overexaggerate it as an issue.  Learn how to recognize and avoid situations and places where griefing is most likely, just as you would in RL  Learn strategies for protecting yourself.  And don't hesitate to submit good, well-documented Abuse Reports when you need to.

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, PenelopeWinthorpe said:

there is a ultima hud that will allow you to control someones viewer if they click on something.

I would like to see that to believe it.  Please send me an IM with information.

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, PenelopeWinthorpe said:

I think you are mistaken you can create a way to control someone else's viewer. so that's not quite correct in your explanation. in fact Jessie is right there is a ultima hud that will allow you to control someones viewer if they click on something.

The true part of this is that there is a device called the "Ultima HUD".

The incorrect part is that it can "control someone's viewer if they click on something."

According to its advertising the Ultima HUD is a "spell casting" and "combat" device.  As such, it can create a whole bunch of impressive particle effects.  It can push, follow, and do all sorts of things that a clever scripter can come up with.  It can NOT take control of another person's viewer.

[ellestones]

8 hours ago, PenelopeWinthorpe said:

With regards to your question. There is a way to send massive amounts of streamed fragmented files to your computer once a hacker has your ip address or is in control of your viewer. I think this is a common problem as Jessie has said because if it wasn't then people wouldn't be posting help questions on second life forums and i also think that Linden Labs needs to take second life greifing and hacking a lot more seriously. If it was you griefed or hacked wouldn't you want something done about it?

if LL were to take it to the seriously nth degree then they would nerf  all media functionality in the viewer. And ban all 3rd party viewers that allow users to enable RLV

as opposed to how these function now.  Which is for us to not turn RLV on, and to turn media off. Which allows those who do want these things to enable them

if you want LL to take griefing seriously then they have already. In the viewer, don't enable stuff that worries you. And don't click on random stuff inworld, same way that we don't click random stuff on the internets generally

[Wulfie Reanimator]

22 hours ago, PenelopeWinthorpe said:

With regards to your question. There is a way to send massive amounts of streamed fragmented files to your computer once a hacker has your ip address or is in control of your viewer. I think this is a common problem as Jessie has said because if it wasn't then people wouldn't be posting help questions on second life forums and i also think that Linden Labs needs to take second life greifing and hacking a lot more seriously. If it was you griefed or hacked wouldn't you want something done about it?

1. You can't just "send stuff" to an IP you're aware of.

2. To reiterate what others have already said; As a very experienced scripter who has scripted and deconstructed combat stuff, and seen first-hand what it looks like when people pull out the viewer crashers and sim crashers/laggers, there is nothing you can do through LSL that would allow you to "take control of someone's viewer."

LSL is very securely self-contained, the closest you can get to directly controlling what someone else's viewer is doing, is through RLV commands (which are not LSL but a feature built into the viewer that makes the viewer respond to certain kinds of chat messages), but even RLV won't allow you to turn on media or otherwise expose someone's IP address.

I've heard the infamous Ultima HUD brought up before, but it's always someone who is technically illiterate on how SL, LSL, the internet, or computers in general work. The Ultima HUD can't control a viewer. You can't prove that it does. If you think you can, you have my permission to use it on me to prove me wrong.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Cronix Byron]

 There is the possibility a) to control the animations of avatars b) use the rlv functions of the viewer remotely c) If someone is able to change settings of your viewer... then they are very good at it d) if besides that they control your avatar/viewer without infecting your computer... they are very good at it

A and B are most common ones. If you encounter C and D simply consider to take security precautions intended to protect your whole computer (passing antivirus, deleting temporal files, checking internet connection works correctly before hand, using vpn, changing to a secure linux distribution for example through live usb-cd [yes, you can use second life through a usb-live operating system]) and router and internet connection (for example, using wireshark to check on connections to ip addresses).

Edited December 18, 2018 by Cronix Byron

[bigmoe Whitfield]

1.  Firestorm is a 3rd party viewer.
2. Crashing the region with an IP attacker,  LL has anti DDOS protection services running,  they will not hurt the region or server the sim lives on.
3. Controlling avatars is possible with scripting,  using to take over the persons PC is not, There is no possible way without the other person installing malware crap from the person and that person uses a custom VIEWER with said functions, otherwise, LL would of banned Firestorm if it had the abilities or any viewer that could do that, it's very easy to tell on LL's backend what is taking place.
4. 2 years???  really... LL has even been there.  IF LL is not finding an issue,  it's the users side that is the problem,  "IT'S NOT THEM" I can hear it now,  if LL cant find it and it's their system, that means it's the USERS issue.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

7 hours ago, Cronix Byron said:

c) If someone is able to change settings of your viewer... then they are very good at it
d) if besides that they control your avatar/viewer without infecting your computer... they are very good at it

If you encounter C and D simply consider to take security precautions intended to protect your whole computer

I totally agree, the griefer must be REALLY good at it if they can change the files or memory on your computer without infecting your computer first. And if they can do that, what's the point of protecting your whole computer? Your computer hasn't been infected, so having the world's best security system installed isn't going to save you. 😂

[Cronix Byron]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I totally agree, the griefer must be REALLY good at it if they can change the files or memory on your computer without infecting your computer first. And if they can do that, what's the point of protecting your whole computer? Your computer hasn't been infected, so having the world's best security system installed isn't going to save you. 😂

If they can change settings or control viewer (somehow) then they could use that to hack computer (afterwards).

In any case, unless you use QubesOS (free operative system) there is not worlds best security system (nor even payed one, not that is difficult to get better security than win10 anyway) unless we talk about routers. So to use a usb-live to make sure nothing touches your OS for example would be first step if you were worried about some serious hacking.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Cronix Byron

[VenKellie]

On 11/18/2018 at 3:18 PM, PenelopeWinthorpe said:

I think you are mistaken you can create a way to control someone else's viewer. so that's not quite correct in your explanation. in fact Jessie is right there is a ultima hud that will allow you to control someones viewer if they click on something.

yea its called RLV but the person being controlled has to enable RLV and consent to being controlled. Theres no other way for someone to control someone else's viewer.

The whole crash thing sounds more like theres something rezzed that the person's viewer spazzes out on, happens to me all the time. a simple cache clean usually does the trick.

As for hacking with lsl. NOPE no way, no how. Only damage someone can do with lsl is spam and theres no way for someone to get someone elses IP address with lsl. The victim will have to go to a website to expose their IP to the bad guy.

[konebii]

JessieStanwick is right. anyone can do this so easily. those scripts are being sold on market even for free. i saw many people crashing  parcels from next parcel. in fact  it s very simple.  u ban  a person from your parcel. he lands to the parcel next to you. and starts attcking sim with those cheap huds.. and everyone on the sim disconnects. u tell it to sim owner. he estate bans that person. but that person comes with another avi next day and screws the sim again..LL dont do anyhting about these people. i dont know why. i think ll already surrendered to a few poor griefers. they dont even band them from sl eventhough they r reported. weird

[JessieStanwick]

this problem is unfortunately common among griefers. they use huds and also a lot of them area scripters who use firestorm. LSL scripting able to hack the viewer and grief you. It happens its real and it continues. also some of these griefers already own "security systems" on sl marketplace, so when you buy them they hack you. Linden labs needs to know about every instance of this type of griefing as it is against federal law to hack a persons computer. The best option is to take print screens of the incident as it happens save as much information as you can about the avatar who griefed you, and report all of the information and logs to Linen labs for investigation by the proper authorities.