Quinn Lysette Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 6:08 PM, IvyLarae said: A while back I was trying on some hairstyles that I was showing a friend while we talked. I tried on this hair because I absolutely loved the curls on it: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/dafnis-FAT-PACK-CURLY-MESH-HAIR-Demo/14911414. I can't remember the exact words that lead up to this, but he said I shouldn't make a black avatar because I am white in RL. Said it was the same as doing black face. I've had many looks for my alts over the years, where they have all been different races, both mythical and human alike so it had never even crossed my mind to think of it that way. At first I didn't think anything of it but the more I pondered it the more I kept thinking " Is it?" So I figured I would ask here on the matter to get a broader perspective Do you all think having an avatar a different race than what you are born is wrong? What are your thoughts? The conversation: I omitted names for the sake of privacy Friend: Gah, I like that hair, but SO NOT ANY of your AVs Me: I know, I love the curls but uuuuuuuugh, so not any of them, except MAYBE Rhia lol Friend: Oh yea, but...... hmmmmm...... nah not really Friend: Yanno... honestly it's kind of a "black girl" hair Me: Hehe I see that Friend: and NO, you will NOT make a black girl AV! Me: I personally coulda seen AJ wearing it lol Me: ...why not? lol Friend: That would be like the SL equivallent to doing Black Face Friend: =P Me: Lol yeah okay sure, and me making Ivy look Asian is fine? lol Friend: Well... not really, no. But it's more acceptable than black =P Friend: Native American would be bad as well Friend: yanno... that actually does bring up an interesting question Friend: is it really bad to chose to RP as a different race than you really are? Me: Even though I have native american ancestory? lol Me: No, I don't think so, because the characters I play arent real lol Me: And you wree totally fine with me trying to make Rhia indian a while back, why exactly is a black person off limits? Friend: It would depend on your portrayal really, but here is the thing... anyone that you came into contact with on that character (or any that is of another race, not just black), if they found out you were white the whole time, it COULD cause a lot of bull***** drama for you. Friend: But also, you have to admit that there is a certain racial history that white America has, and that does kinda effect how things are percieved Friend: when it comes to certain races over others Me: Uhm no, I have Met ALOT of people who were white in RL and RPed as black characters, because most people in the RP community understand that its just a character Friend: I get that, and I agree with you Friend: My stance is that I wouldn't do it just because I would want to avoid the possible drama that might come along with though Me: I get that Friend: but also, i don't RP as much as you, so you do know the community better Friend: I can see it from the perspective of "everything here is a story, and we're just writing characters and cooperatively writing this *****" standpoint Me: but wit hthat being said, would you also say that if a white american person walked around with one of those anime characters, since anime is a big part of japanese culture, that it would also be inappropriate? Me: *avatars Friend: No not at all Friend: what I'm saying though is... Friend: while YOU and I might be able to see the clear cut difference between an "RP character" and what is RL; other's who aren't quite so involved might not get it that way did i already answer this i forget but just make whatever avatar you want its always ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: The concept of war has been around since well civilizations started. There have been many big wars throughout history. You seem to go by the whole, the conquered are the victims, and always will be the victims. There is blood on their hands too, they are not innocent. Can you please provide proof, that history is written by only these people? There are many historical accounts, where significant breakthroughs were made, and how is one a conqueror or even a victor? Example, Sir Frederick Graham Banting, figured out how to aid with diabetes. Alexander Graham Bell and the Telephone. Tell me, with these two good examples, where bloodshed and an abundance of human life lost, is present? You can start with Charles Eastman. And follow up with: http://college.cengage.com/english/heath/syllabuild/iguide/mathews.html ETA: You may also want to read Russell Means' Where White Men Fear to Tread. Edited November 5, 2018 by Selene Gregoire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: Can you please provide proof, that history is written by only these people? Good God it's all over the place. Only recently have minority voices been integrated into History...and even then only marginally so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Quinn Lysette said: did i already answer this i forget but just make whatever avatar you want its always ok Now im confused. I thought you are the one who always needs a verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Lysette Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, Resi Pfeffer said: Now im confused. I thought you are the one who always needs a verification. was talkin bout the hair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: The concept of war has been around since well civilizations started. There have been many big wars throughout history. You seem to go by the whole, the conquered are the victims, and always will be the victims. There is blood on their hands too, they are not innocent. Can you please provide proof, that history is written by only these people? There are many historical accounts, where significant breakthroughs were made, and how is one a conqueror or even a victor? Example, Sir Frederick Graham Banting, figured out how to aid with diabetes. Alexander Graham Bell and the Telephone. Tell me, with these two good examples, where bloodshed and an abundance of human life lost, is present? Let me add this, the many people of colour, and in the LGBT community, that fought for the rights you have today. They won, not the victors. How about the many inventors of colour, I can name one. The guy who invented the respirator, for firefighters. That ultimately saved many firefighters lives, and we still use it today. Not the same design, but the same concept. Please stop, using the most negative stuff in history, to further a cause. Because there has been so many positives in history too. I am not white. I am Lakota. Oglala Lakota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Quinn Lysette said: was talkin bout the hair Im sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: What the? I'm pointing out a fact to you and you call me a racist? You have no idea how absurd that is. Racists hate facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Be careful, next we won’t be able to discuss history! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: I am not white. I am Lakota. Oglala Lakota. I never said you were white, I was just pointing out that history has amazing achievements too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, Quinn Lysette said: did i already answer this i forget but just make whatever avatar you want its always ok It really shouldn't matter, how you as an individual play SL. If you want to be a race, other than your own, that's fine. If you want to be a dude or a chick, that is totally fine. If you want to be a furry or feral, that is totally fine. It's your Second Life, after all, be whatever you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: I never said you were white, I was just pointing out that history has amazing achievements too. Depends on the point of view. Humans do some really crappy things to other humans simply because people are different and some have an irrational fear of those differences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: I am not white. I am Lakota. Oglala Lakota. My grandson is half Native American, and I fear for his safety in these times... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Depends on the point of view. Humans do some really crappy things to other humans simply because people are different and some have an irrational fear of those differences. Yes, they do, but not just cause of race or gender identity or sexual orientation. They just may be intimidated by that person's intelligence, or even they have more friends, than the other person. Like prejudices are not just black and white, there are shades of grey there too. Bullies will bully, based on anything, not just the three things, that seem to thought as so prevalent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 55 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said: Yes. Just keep reading through the results. I said you would have to sort out the wackos... The first two I've already discussed. Number 3 appears to be based on the same original source as #2, a book published some 60 years ago, The Naked Communist, which apparently purports to discuss the "45 goals of the Communist Party of the USA" from 1958. Number 3 provides a short list of Communist countries round the world, which doesn't seem particularly relevant, #4 is a history of the Soviet Union (again, of questionable relevance), #5 is a lesson plan for studying communist countries, #6 is from How Stuff Works about how Communism works in theory and practice, and doesn't seem to have much about plots to overthrow the USA, #7 is someone on Quora asking how to overthrow a Communist government and #8 is the Wikipedia article on Communism. At this point I gave up looking. Can you please direct me to any particular link on the subject you have read and find at all convincing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: Yes, they do, but not just cause of race or gender identity or sexual orientation. They just may be intimidated by that person's intelligence, or even they have more friends, than the other person. Like prejudices are not just black and white, there are shades of grey there too. Bullies will bully, based on anything, not just the three things, that seem to thought as so prevalent. Preaching to the choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Racists hate facts. They tend to not like themselves very much too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said: Rather simplistic answer, isn't it? It's always easy to point fingers. There's enough blame to go around including those who find themselves in these situations. There are no easy answers or solutions. But I think it first has to start with leaving behind the victim mentality and picking yourself up and refusing to be a victim any longer. except i can privide proof of my assertions unlike others in here. The simple fact is if you believe something is true you will find overwhelming evidence that it exists everywhere you look. Take systemic racism, which one forum motormouth cant stop talking about. They believe it truly exists so they blame everything on that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I honestly think, with this divide, we as humans have brought ourselves 300 steps, instead of furthering the Human Species as a whole. We have forgotten one fundamental thing, we are all human. That is plain and simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Phorumities said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Ya got some work to do, buddy ole racism denier. PROVE when racism ended and its effects were alleviated. Show, WITH DATA AND PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES supporting your argument, exactly WHEN the effects of the hundreds of years of anti-Black racism from chattel slavery through Old Jim Crow leveled off. Show when the WEALTH expropriated during that oppression was repaid to those it was expropriated from and through. And please remember, after you’ve addressed the end of anti-Black racism you’ll still have to explain when anti-Latinx, anti-Asian, anti-Arab, and anti-Native racism came to an end as well. no YOU show the proof of the hysterical claims you have made through hundreds of posts. I see it in the Native American reservations, where alcoholism is rampant and too many lead wrecked miserable lives. I see it in generational poverty in many black communities, where generation after generation too few are able to move beyond their circumstance. I saw it when I viewed an infant lying on the cold floor near a plastic sack in a Hispanic home of new citizens to this country needing to hide. And I hear it repeatedly from my Social Worker friends who report the forgotten homeless vet sleeping on the streets because society will only allocate so many resources to the disadvantaged, yet funnel excess resources to our military and the wealthiest in our society through more tax cuts. There's a reason for this, Phorumities, and it's not policies of the 'left' as you claim, creating dependency. It simply takes a long time, extending beyond one generation, to overcome the effects of such abuse. All you'd have to do to understand this is study some Developmental Psychology to comprehend how people form their identity and how abuse stunts it, and to read some Sociology to understand why poverty problems extend far beyond any one individual. And study some Psychology that focuses on how trauma and abuse actually affects people in real life. But you won't, will you? Because you don't trust in academics or experiments run by them, and you distrust any data compiled by the government. You're stuck in an endless loop of believing what you do because you believe it, and any other data is 'fake news'. As your beloved guy always says, it's sad, really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, halebore Aeon said: Look let's step back into time here, I am part black, but that has nothing to do with this. I know for a fact, that blacks were selling blacks to slave traders for the wealth. That Slavery wasn't a white person thing, it was a rich person thing. There are documented cases of, blacks owning slaves, whites being slaves. And let's not forget about the Irish. Now let's step further back, Natives weren't innocent either. They were waging wars with other tribes, for more territory. That all being said, even when the settlers came down, they were specifically asked, to be diplomatic. But one can only do so much when constantly being attacked. Yes, Racism still exists, but not on the scale that it claims to be. You see most anti racists dont care about minorities treating each other horribly. its well documented that blacks and arabs were the ones that sold blacks to white slave traders. But they don't care about that. All they care about is white on black oppression. And why? Because in the final analysis, they are anti-white. Its not their fault though, all their lives they have been taught that whites are evil and that all the ills of the world can be blamed in the white race. Who teaches such lunacy? Those same socialists that are bent on destroying western civilization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, Luna Bliss said: I see it in the Native American reservations, where alcoholism is rampant and too many lead wrecked miserable lives. I see it in generational poverty in many black communities, where generation after generation too few are able to move beyond their circumstance. I saw it when I viewed an infant lying on the cold floor near a plastic sack in a Hispanic home of new citizens to this country needing to hide. And I hear it repeatedly from my Social Worker friends who report the forgotten homeless vet sleeping on the streets because society will only allocate so many resources to the disadvantaged, yet funnel excess resources to our military and the wealthiest in our society through more tax cuts. There's a reason for this, Phorumities, and it's not policies of the 'left' as you claim, creating dependency. It simply takes a long time, extending beyond one generation, to overcome the effects of such abuse. All you'd have to do to understand this is study some Developmental Psychology to comprehend how people form their identity and how abuse stunts it, and to read some Sociology to understand why poverty problems extend far beyond any one individual. And study some Psychology that focuses on how trauma and abuse actually affects people in real life. But you won't, will you? Because you don't trust in academics or experiments run by them, and you distrust any data compiled by the government. You're stuck in an endless loop of believing what you do because you believe it, and any other data is 'fake news'. As your beloved guy always says, it's sad, really sad. So in your eyes, its the fault of the rich people? You can't sit there and blame alcoholism, or anything on anyone, but the person who is doing it to themselves. Nothing is holding these people back, from being successful, only themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: I honestly think, with this divide, we as humans have brought ourselves 300 steps, instead of furthering the Human Species as a whole. We have forgotten one fundamental thing, we are all human. That is plain and simple. We say Mitákuye Oyás'iŋ. All are related. Aho! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, Selene Gregoire said: We say Mitákuye Oyás'iŋ. All are related. Aho! I say we are all humans and should treat each other as such. But either side doesn't seem to want to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said: I honestly think, with this divide, we as humans have brought ourselves 300 steps, instead of furthering the Human Species as a whole. We have forgotten one fundamental thing, we are all human. That is plain and simple. I'm not understanding the '300 steps' reference. Google isn't helping... In our 7000+ years of written history, I see no indication human nature has changed. We know way more about our physical universe. But, our treatment of each other remains barbaric. I see nothing to indicate we will EVER change that. The advances in overcoming racism from the 60's to the 2000's have mostly been erased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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