Sit on wearable object

[AngelTheTickleSuccubus]

Hello.  I asked a question in the LSL forum page about if this was possible. 

You can find that quick post here: 

 

I wanted to discuss how useful something like this could be, vs what there is now, what kinds of problems it could cause or exploits it could open up. 

 

I wanted to start by throwing out some ideas that I had on its usage.  they are simple, and there are ways to do this, but they dont work well and are extremely limited.  My idea was couples walking.  For example having someone ride on your back or cradle them. Obviously a similar idea can apply but with 18+ styled animations.  Another example is that you find a chair and sit in it, but its not for 2 people, but you want to sit with your partner.  No problem, attach your object and have your partner sit with you. Then you could use NPose to adjust things as needed.  This way you dont need create permissions to put down a vehicle to do this, its calculated into the attachments and complexity of the avatar

 

Thoughts?  I think this could be a very useful tool, but I need more to go off of to create a solid Feature Request. 

 

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

can we reply in your other thread then?

[Love Zhaoying]

I suggest a thread merge.

Thread1=Forum.OpenThread(thisURL);

Thread2=Forum.OpenThread(otherURL);

Forum.MergeThreads(Thread1, Thread2);

[Fionalein]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suggest a thread merge.

Did you report yourself for that suggestion? (not for being a bad lion, simply because I see no other way to alert the Forums mods)

[AngelTheTickleSuccubus]

6 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

can we reply in your other thread then?

the other thread was meant as a technical question about "is it possible with any LSL or other method".  This thread is meant to be a discussion about its viability and other aspects that could make it worth a feature request or not. 

 

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suggest a thread merge.

Thread1=Forum.OpenThread(thisURL);

Thread2=Forum.OpenThread(otherURL);

Forum.MergeThreads(Thread1, Thread2);

However this would be fire I suppose. but ive never merged a forum post before, so forgive me, but how do I perform these function?

 

With all of that said, could we please stay on topic as much as possible? Simply as the nature of a forum. 

[Rolig Loon]

Once a thread is launched, it goes where it wants to.  The suggestion in your other thread was the correct one.  If you want to make a feature request, submit a JIRA.  This particular request has been made dozens of times in the years that I have been in SL. I give its chances slightly above zero, but go ahead and try.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

Did you report yourself for that suggestion? (not for being a bad lion, simply because I see no other way to alert the Forums mods)

Is not my job!

[AngelTheTickleSuccubus]

45 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Once a thread is launched, it goes where it wants to.  The suggestion in your other thread was the correct one.  If you want to make a feature request, submit a JIRA.  This particular request has been made dozens of times in the years that I have been in SL. I give its chances slightly above zero, but go ahead and try.

thats fine, and thank you for the information.  However, again, could we stay on topic in this thread?  If, as you say, its been made so many times, then clearly its something that people want.  However if a Jira ticket is to be made then a good user case needs to be made.  This discussion is to build a user case, so please talk about the topic.  This thread has gotten so far off track already

 

[Ethan Paslong]

14 minutes ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

If its been made so many times, then clearly its something that people want.

 

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

This particular request has been made dozens of times in the years

dozens of times during 15 year isn't really "so many times" and also not "clearly something people want" ...it's something that is asked once or twice a year, and with 35 k  + online players at any time that's not really a lot.

17 minutes ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

thats fine, and thank you for the information. 

purpose of information is doing something with it.

17 minutes ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

 This thread has gotten so far off track already

as soon you hit "submit" the control over the thread is gone, and only have control about the post you write yourself.

Seeing your other thread and the things already said, there might be added some yes/no answers, but the details are mostly mentioned already.

File the JIRA and see if there comes a response

[Fionalein]

28 minutes ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

However if a Jira ticket is to be made then a good user case needs to be made.

If the horse avatar creators didn't file a successful JIRA for saddles yet, how do you think you will launch a successful one?

BTW the whole naimation system will just bork up it up if the sitable prim is attached anywhere but to avatar center

... maybe understanding how animatiosn work made them stop doing a JIRA? One can only guess...

[AngelTheTickleSuccubus]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

If the horse avatar creators didn't file a successful JIRA for saddles yet, how do you think you will launch a successful one?

BTW the whole naimation system will just bork up it up if the sitable prim is attached anywhere but to avatar center

... maybe understanding how animatiosn work made them stop doing a JIRA? One can only guess...

I work in development. We used Jira.  One thing we did is track how many occurances of requests were made.  When they started to bubble up in number and we deemed that the feature would be a good idea for the time spent based on all of the usages of that feature, we added the ticket to our current sprint.  

The 'Horse avatar people" are just another example of how this could be used.  Thats more information for the case. Furthermore "its been made a couple times a year" by who? only the people who specifically ask for it? What if more people were made aware of it? and it became more and more of a popular request? 

lastly, I dont control the thread directly, but by asking people to stay focused on a concept work can actually get done.  In many forums, if a post goes off topic they just delete it, to simply allow random crap is just a waste of space and reduction of search efficiency.

this thread is all but ruined now though, so whatever. 

[Fionalein]

3 hours ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

I work in development.

Then you really should know better than to tell the Lindens how to do their jobs...

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

I work in development.

Me too. Your explanation of what you want was almost incomprehesible, sorry.

[AngelTheTickleSuccubus]

20 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Then you really should know better than to tell the Lindens how to do their jobs...

im not telling them how to do their job, im pointing out that in business if something keeps popping up or there is a popular demand, there is typically a response from the company to deal with it.  That just basic economics, that has nothing to do with development. 

 

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Me too. Your explanation of what you want was almost incomprehesible, sorry.

you didnt ever ask for clarification for anything in a technical way to help lead to a better understanding and solution.  for shame as a professional,  awesome as a forum lurker!

[Lindal Kidd]

I thought that Angel's feature description was pretty clear.  She wants functionality that would let someone sit on something that someone else was wearing.  So, for example, I could sit on my partner's gloves and he'd appear to be carrying me in his arms, or I could sit on his shirt and ride around on his shoulders.  Or, for a horse, I could sit on their saddle and ride them.

I see three problems with the idea, though.

1.  There are already ways to achieve these effects.  The most common is through a "vehicle" which both avatars sit on.  Then the one who sits first is the "driver" and carries the other avatar around.  Another way is with a "hugger" which performs various couples animations.  A third is with a collar that contains couples animations.  Yes, there are some limitations and irritations involved in doing it this way, but...
2.  Allowing an avatar to sit on a worn item has its own set of problems.  The worst one I see is the potential for griefing.  If you are wearing your favorite "sittable" dress and visit Social Island, you could have twelve or fifteen jerks trying to ride around on you.
3.   I have no idea of the technical hurdles involved, but I suspect they are significant.  What happens to the sitter's animation, for example, if the sittee changes the attachment point of her sit-enabled clothing?

[ellestones]

technically it could be done. Be lots of work tho for the devs

the way it works now is:

agent -> object:attachement

object:seat -> agent -> object:attachment

whats needed to realise this:

agent1 -> object:attachment -> agent2 -> object:attachment

object:seat -> agent1 -> object:attachment -> agent2 -> object:attachment

from a permissions pov to prevent griefing then agent2 would have to accept a sit-on-me invitation from agent1. The invitation would have to be issued manually to prevent an agent from auto-spamming everyone nearby with sit-on-me requests

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I see three problems with the idea, though.

They are great observations, but they are better made in the other thread.

9 hours ago, AngelTheTickleSuccubus said:

This thread has gotten so far off track already

It's better to make one thread, and only one thread. It keeps the discussion together and in the one place. Otherwise you get people making suggestions in one, and others making suggestions in the other, and never the twain shall meet.

[animats]

SL, unlike almost every other graphics or game program, does not have a general object hierarchy. There are just root prims and child prims. Philip Rosedale has said that was his biggest design mistake when he designed SL.

Avatars are a special case. Attachments are a special case. Sitting is a special case. Clothing is a special case. Animesh is a special case. Each has specific code in sim and viewer. There's no general feature which would allow sitting on an attachment to be easily implemented in SL.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

11 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

• Allowing an avatar to sit on a worn item has its own set of problems.  The worst one I see is the potential for griefing.  If you are wearing your favorite "sittable" dress and visit Social Island, you could have twelve or fifteen jerks trying to ride around on you.
•   I have no idea of the technical hurdles involved, but I suspect they are significant.  What happens to the sitter's animation, for example, if the sittee changes the attachment point of her sit-enabled clothing?

These problems are no different to other "touchable attachments" or furniture.

Assuming that an attachment could be made sittable by giving it a sit target, you could automatically boot off a avatars as soon as they sit, based on whatever conditions the script has, or the sit target could be removed/disabled as normal which will prevent sitting entirely.

Same with the sitter's animations, if the attachment is detached, they are forced to unsit because the object no longer exists.

As for the sittable attachment being on a "moving bone" rather than avatar center, their visual position should be treated like any other attachment. They will be positioned relatively to the bone and move with it.

Server-side, the sitting avatar's position is equal to the avatar they are sitting on, as with regular attachments.

The sitting avatar can be animated via the script just like on regular furniture.

The benefits of sitting on an avatar are notable over "vehicles" or llMoveToTarget with an offset animation. The avatar being sat on retains more fluid control over their avatar, can use a more complex AO compared to sitting on an object, the sitting avatar's animations are guaranteed to line up as expected unlike with llMoveToTarget, etc.

Maybe someone can use this as a JIRA draft.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Lucia Nightfire]

References:

Sitting on user attachments.

Scripted rigging of a sitter to a bone of an Animesh object's skeleton.