A Terrible Bug Where Search/Places Ads Have Stopped Working

[Prokofy Neva]

I put this thread in the Land forum just because it is directly pertinent to rentals companies but it's a much larger issue.

Search/Places, for which we pay $30/parcel, has stopped working.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I put this thread in the Land forum just because it is directly pertinent to rentals companies but it's a much larger issue.

Search/Places, for which we pay $30/parcel, has stopped working.

 

you'r so proud on your post you go place announcements of them on other sections??

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you'r so proud on your post you go place announcements of them on other sections??

Maybe we will see an announcement about this thread on other forums!

[Phil Deakins]

Actually, if the problem is widespread, posting a link to the thread here may cause people, who don't regulary look in the Land forums, to check search for their own places.

[LittleMe Jewell]

This is actually one of the few times when I think it was a good idea to create a General Discussion thread, linking to the other thread.  General Discussion gets a lot more viewing than the Land forum does and there are many people that never look at the Land forum unless they are specifically dealing with buying/selling/renting of some sort.  This bug impacts everyone that pays for Search, including store owners, as well as all residents that use Search to find Places.  I wasn't able to find any store via Search yesterday unless I used Firestorm's legacy Places search.

I wonder if LL will refund the Search fee for this borked period.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Interestingly enough, I just checked the Grid Status page, under Websites, and there is no mention of the problem.  Apparently, as long as the page functions at all, it is good enough.

[Alwin Alcott]

58 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is actually one of the few times when I think it was a good idea to create a General Discussion thread, linking to the other thread.  General Discussion gets a lot more viewing than the Land forum does and there are many people that never look at the Land forum unless they are specifically dealing with buying/selling/renting of some sort. 

i disagree.. why not simply stop with the sections, and post doesn't belong at the forums in the first place

OP should be at support. not here.

But we all know how she works... lets see the if thread derail as all hers do... the whole big world against one...( it already started, people who don't agree to her are already putted aside as not knowing where they'r talking about )

[Prokofy Neva]

Support tickets take days -- weeks -- to get processed. I filed one. It is finally "in process" now but days -- weeks -- could go by before it is answered. Given that a Linden already said "it's not reproducable" it may be closed.

JIRAs are obscure things that only some Lindens pay attention -- when they do, if they validate them, which hasn't happened yet.

This isn't about me. It's about search/places for $30 a parcel not working FOR EVERYONE who uses it. It's about a product you pay for not working, and draining your money away.

The class of people who use it is not a big lobby for Linden Lab. That's why it isn't validated, let alone fixed yet.

I am trying to contact some big name stores to get them to care, but given that their traffic doesn't depend on search/places as much as smaller businesses, this will be hard.

 

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Search/Places, for which we pay $30/parcel, has stopped working.

Thanks for letting me know. One of my store sims has lots of parcels, and while the cost might not amount to a whole lot it's still a few real dollars a month I'd rather keep..

[Prokofy Neva]

Just now I refreshed Search and saw that Search/Places is working again. I'm glad.

But I'm also quite weary because of what it takes to get these fixes. I'm also weary that this is just one of a number of things lately that have really drained the joy out of Second Life -- griefing, the LindEx, rezzing bugs, sim crashes, avatar glitches, you name it.

Bit by bit, I lessen Second Life so it won't diminish *me*.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But I'm also quite weary because of what it takes to get these fixes.

I thought the fix to this was actually handled very well and quick.  Jagix replied in this thread 6 hours ago, which would have been 7:00 am my time, so 6:00 am LL time.  The fix was rolled out at 11:00 am LL time.  I know that a lot of people that don't work in IT might think that was too long, but I'd call 5 hours for fixing a fairly critical but not 'down' situation to actually be pretty good customer technical response.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm also weary that this is just one of a number of things lately that have really drained the joy out of Second Life -- griefing, the LindEx, rezzing bugs, sim crashes, avatar glitches, you name it.

Hell, those issues have all been going on, in one way or another, since the beginning of SL days, yet for the most part the number of instances and severity are drastically reduced from what I remember of my early SL time.

[Cindy Evanier]

17 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I thought the fix to this was actually handled very well and quick.

Not really related but my offline sim was fixed and moved to a new server yesterday 12 mins after support opened at 5 am slt.   I was super impressed. Just wanted to add that  

[Callum Meriman]

nvm

 

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I thought the fix to this was actually handled very well and quick.  Jagix replied in this thread 6 hours ago, which would have been 7:00 am my time, so 6:00 am LL time.  The fix was rolled out at 11:00 am LL time.  I know that a lot of people that don't work in IT might think that was too long, but I'd call 5 hours for fixing a fairly critical but not 'down' situation to actually be pretty good customer technical response.

 

Hell, those issues have all been going on, in one way or another, since the beginning of SL days, yet for the most part the number of instances and severity are drastically reduced from what I remember of my early SL time.

I appreciate that this is your experience. It's not mine. Say, are you in business in SL? I don't see that you own any business or make anything or do anything. Your picks consist of the Forums Cartel hangout area and a jewelry company. So I dare say you have no idea what it is like to have hundreds of people IMing you over some crisis in SL. Or to have hundreds of customers affected by something.

Oh, and Theresa Tennyson? What business do you run in SL? I see your picks are only full of exploring and escort sims. 

I don't see either of you in the names of merchants on the Marketplace.

Lina Pussycat, er, you're in the rentals business, is it? I see links to two parcels on your picks. Tip of the iceberg, perhaps? I don't see your little ganja store that used to be out in the moth temple, is that gone now? Does the exclusive members-only-even-to-TP club you run bring in any Lindens?

Of course, people don't put everything they do on their picks, there isn't enough room there, for one. But if you are a merchant in SL with even a modest number of customers, you usually have an inworld store on your picks or you're at least on the MP in the merchants' list. I don't see you gals there anywhere.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Oh, and Theresa Tennyson? What business do you run in SL? I see your picks are only full of exploring and escort sims. 

 

Perhaps I know better than to post irrelevant comments on forums with my business account.

[Prokofy Neva]

So...The failure of paid search/places ads to show up in search for a day didn't rate as an "incident" to report.

That's quite a telling indication of the management's attitude toward Mainland, I would say.

I'll bet you that the small businesses of Second Life who mainly use this feature aren't going to get a charming apology like Strawberry Singh did, either LOL.

Surely LL isn't going to hand out any compensation for lost service because it would be difficult possibly to calculate and administer.

Often the Lindens talk about how they want to improve the features of premium accounts. They don't even really think of them in terms of LAND because they want to get away from land as their core revenue generator. They like to think of Premium as an account people get to have Lindens automatically delivered into their accounts like trust fund kids (although of course they're paid for by the subscription fee) and get various free gifts every few months (not every month, like any decent store manager in SL does) and the use of sandboxes, which they still glorify as solemn temples of creation as they did in the beginning.

I doubt it would occur to the Lindens to remove the $30 fee for placing your land in search although that's not really because it "costs them money". It's a sink -- a removal of Lindens from the supply to keep money supply tight and the value up. So sure, they get something out of it directly but it is not revenue.

That might be a perk they could offer for Premium land owners who use their 512 to buy land, however and it would save some people thousands of Lindens a month and others would just be glad not to have the thing debiting to their group officers or even all group members (which is how the payment is made, via groups).

Linden could shut off debiting of groups which are only used for land ads even for one week -- they've done that accidentally at times. One week without debits for search ads would be just the sort of compensation I would expect them to make, but they won't, likely. Still, I live in hope that some day the Lindens will realize Philip Linden's dream of the Mainland.

 

 

[Tari Landar]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

? I appreciate that this is your experience. It's not mine. Say, are you in business in SL? I don't see that you own any business or make anything or do anything. Your picks consist of the Forums Cartel hangout area and a jewelry company. So I dare say you have no idea what it is like to have hundreds of people IMing you over some crisis in SL. Or to have hundreds of customers affected by something.

Oh, and Theresa Tennyson? What business do you run in SL? I see your picks are only full of exploring and escort sims. 

I don't see either of you in the names of merchants on the Marketplace.

Lina Pussycat, er, you're in the rentals business, is it? I see links to two parcels on your picks. Tip of the iceberg, perhaps? I don't see your little ganja store that used to be out in the moth temple, is that gone now? Does the exclusive members-only-even-to-TP club you run bring in any Lindens?

Of course, people don't put everything they do on their picks, there isn't enough room there, for one. But if you are a merchant in SL with even a modest number of customers, you usually have an inworld store on your picks or you're at least on the MP in the merchants' list. I don't see you gals there anywhere.

 

Why do you always assume you're all knowing, and the only one with any amount of experience, and therefore, the only one with a valid opinion?  People do not HAVE to be merchants/creators/business owners to have a damn opinion, sheesh. 

I don't own land right now with my store on it..but I have, since 2008, owned one, and have, up until roughly July of this year, had land with a physical store on it (and why I do not at this moment, is absolutely none of anyone's business...nor relevant here in this discussion).

I do know how problematic grid-wide issues can be for merchants/creators/business owners. I have had to deal with hundreds of complaints from irate customers when the grid goes wonky as hell, or something goes terribly wrong that affects a large population of the sl community. It can suck when there's little to nothing you can do about it. But, we do what we can, when we can, and we try to help customers as best as we can

That said, *I* still think LL handled this swiftly, far more swiftly than many other issues we have seen. And every single one of your complaints, has existed, as already pointed out to you, since sl's inception. Yes it would be nice if more issues could be(or were) remedied as quickly as others. It would also be nice if sl were a perfect virtual environment. But, much like it's rl counterpart...it's not.

If everything is so "the sky is falling" and diminishing so greatly, what the hell are you still doing here? I would rather be able to state something like that without being so blunt. but...damn man..calm your chichis a bit. I know it's hard for some to give LL any credit or props for anything..ever, though I will never understand that mindset. I am all for holding LL responsible, even being angry with them about some issues, even getting on their case when the need arises(and to be frank, it does sometimes rise to that level), but if everything actually was/is as bad as some folks choose to profess..Sl wouldn't still be here, and neither would those complaining. So, clearly, it's not as bad as some try to make it seem. 

[Prokofy Neva]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Perhaps I know better than to post irrelevant comments on forums with my business account.

Well, some of us snipe anonymously in SL and some don't. I'm in the category of people of people who says things from my main account plainly, which is even tied to my RL name. 

If you have a business on another account which turns out secretly to be linked to this one, it can't be a very large one, as most people posting on the forums with businesses WANT recognition for their avatar name so that people in fact see their business and shop there. Of course, if you use the forums only to attack others with impunity, that's another matter.

[Tari Landar]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

Linden could shut off debiting of groups which are only used for land ads even for one week -- they've done that accidentally at times. One week without debits for search ads would be just the sort of compensation I would expect them to make, but they won't, likely. Still, I live in hope that some day the Lindens will realize Philip Linden's dream of the Mainland.

 

 

They weren't down for one week, why would you expect one week's compensation? Yeah maybe it would be nice..but it's certainly not an obligation, nor should it be considered an expectation. IF they were down for a week, then yes. 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Why do you always assume you're all knowing, and the only one with any amount of experience, and therefore, the only one with a valid opinion?  People do not HAVE to be merchants/creators/business owners to have a damn opinion, sheesh. 

I don't own land right now with my store on it..but I have, since 2008, owned one, and have, up until roughly July of this year, had land with a physical store on it (and why I do not at this moment, is absolutely none of anyone's business...nor relevant here in this discussion).

I do know how problematic grid-wide issues can be for merchants/creators/business owners. I have had to deal with hundreds of complaints from irate customers when the grid goes wonky as hell, or something goes terribly wrong that affects a large population of the sl community. It can suck when there's little to nothing you can do about it. But, we do what we can, when we can, and we try to help customers as best as we can

That said, *I* still think LL handled this swiftly, far more swiftly than many other issues we have seen. And every single one of your complaints, has existed, as already pointed out to you, since sl's inception. Yes it would be nice if more issues could be(or were) remedied as quickly as others. It would also be nice if sl were a perfect virtual environment. But, much like it's rl counterpart...it's not.

If everything is so "the sky is falling" and diminishing so greatly, what the hell are you still doing here? I would rather be able to state something like that without being so blunt. but...damn man..calm your chichis a bit. I know it's hard for some to give LL any credit or props for anything..ever, though I will never understand that mindset. I am all for holding LL responsible, even being angry with them about some issues, even getting on their case when the need arises(and to be frank, it does sometimes rise to that level), but if everything actually was/is as bad as some folks choose to profess..Sl wouldn't still be here, and neither would those complaining. So, clearly, it's not as bad as some try to make it seem. 

You're exhibiting the 0/1 thinking process again. I haven't said anything remotely similar to what you claim.

What I've said is that I have experience that gives my opinion weight, and others don't have that experience and has less weight. That's something different than saying "I'm the only one with a valid opinion" although I realize that in the 0/1 thinking, any criticism makes it "seem" like that is said because there are no nuances.

The Lindens got on this swiftly because I came and shouted loudly about it and IM'd merchants about it who called LL or added to the JIRA. You didn't do that. You didn't see this happening and didn't report it. So it didn't matter to you.

I'm not going to give Linden Lab ANY credit for taking paid search ads out of a search for a day, not realizing it, and taking that day to get it fixed only after it was shouted about.

Search ads dropping out of search ground many people's businesses in the second or third tier or lower to a halt. They had no business while that happened. People whose businesses don't depend on search ads don't get this and are smug, disbelieving, and churlish about it, like so many things in SL where people have not just no empathy, but no clue about how the other half lives.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

They weren't down for one week, why would you expect one week's compensation? Yeah maybe it would be nice..but it's certainly not an obligation, nor should it be considered an expectation. IF they were down for a week, then yes. 

0/1 one thought process

Because the loss for businesses isn't just $30 divided by 7, or $4 only for that time. It's the loss of all the sales they would have made that day. A day without sales is crippling for some.

Therefore to give a token $30/parcel to somewhat compensate for those losses of sales in the hundreds and thousands of Lindens would be appropriate.

BTW Lina Pussycat thinks "I should know" that people "don't shop in Christmas in Second Life because they shop in Real Life". This is hilariously wrong. Of course they shop during Christmas to decorate their homes, not necessarily to give presents, although they do that, too. Any rentals agent knows that they may likely have increased sales in Christmas -- people ret more store space, they rent more prims, they rent snow land or getaways, because they feel like it's a holiday season.

Then they have to pay their real-life credit card bills in January and you see a huge tank in sales that no "January white sales" as in RL will ever fix. But soon it will be Valentine's Day when there is a surge in shopping again.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Search ads dropping out of search ground many people's businesses in the second or third tier or lower to a halt. They had no business while that happened. People whose businesses don't depend on search ads don't get this and are smug, disbelieving, and churlish about it, like so many things in SL where people have not just no empathy, but no clue about how the other half lives.

My Internet service was out for three-and-a-half days due to my ISP. You know - my ISP?  The good, capitalist business that should be allowed to do whatever it wants without being regulated?

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You're exhibiting the 0/1 thinking process again. I haven't said anything remotely similar to what you claim.

What I've said is that I have experience that gives my opinion weight, and others don't have that experience and has less weight. That's something different than saying "I'm the only one with a valid opinion" although I realize that in the 0/1 thinking, any criticism makes it "seem" like that is said because there are no nuances.

The Lindens got on this swiftly because I came and shouted loudly about it and IM'd merchants about it who called LL or added to the JIRA. You didn't do that. You didn't see this happening and didn't report it. So it didn't matter to you.

I'm not going to give Linden Lab ANY credit for taking paid search ads out of a search for a day, not realizing it, and taking that day to get it fixed only after it was shouted about.

Search ads dropping out of search ground many people's businesses in the second or third tier or lower to a halt. They had no business while that happened. People whose businesses don't depend on search ads don't get this and are smug, disbelieving, and churlish about it, like so many things in SL where people have not just no empathy, but no clue about how the other half lives.

Don't tell me what I did or didn't do. ASK me. Your reply to me, is exactly what I was talking about. My opinion holds no weight with you(peachy keen jelly bean), but not simply because you disagree, instead it holds no weight with you because you ASSUMED you knew what I was doing/thinking/have done/have thought. That's pretty stupid of you, though it is your MO. 

I didn't say give LL credit for glitches, errors, bugs, etc... But giving them credit for taking care of it swiftly seems reasonable. Shrugs  I'm not giving you props for reporting squat, you give yourself enough credit, including taking credit for any and all reports that were made to LL, lmao. Newsflash..you're not that important, well, certainly no more important than anyone else. I know of several (well, far more than several, but, I'm being conservative here) who reported this to LL, including myself, but nice try pretending you were all alone in that.  

 

[Prokofy Neva]

Er, I haven't told you what you did or didn't do. I've pointed out that you extrapolated a hysterical hypothetical from my statement that wasn't as categorical as claimed.

No, your opinion holds no weight because you speak with the methods of psywar, gotcha, derision, arrogance, etc. proper to BDSM, not normal discourse. Sorry, I don't play along.

I'm simply going to LAUGH OUT LOUD at your belief that my post didn't move the needle, but these super-important privileged big store owners saw this happening and quietly told LL over their game of golf or weekly luncheon at Four Seasons or however it happens LOL. Just LAUGH OUT LOUD. 

NEWSFLASH. Coming on the forums and sounding a five-alarm fire and dodging all the robots who come out in the form of harassment, negativity, naysaying, "non-reproduction" blah blah blah isn't thinking you're more important than other people. It's about being willing to go to bat for your tenants who have stores who have been hurt by this, and going to bat for your own business to keep it afloat. I dare say these are things you cannot understand from experience, the way you talk.

Happy to see your time-stamped IM to a Linden showing it was before my post on the forums LOL.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[LittleMe Jewell]

53 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I appreciate that this is your experience. It's not mine. Say, are you in business in SL? I don't see that you own any business or make anything or do anything. Your picks consist of the Forums Cartel hangout area and a jewelry company. So I dare say you have no idea what it is like to have hundreds of people IMing you over some crisis in SL. Or to have hundreds of customers affected by something.

 

No, I am not in business in SL, but what the hell does that have to do with me having experienced all of the various SL issues & glitches over the years and PERSONALLY thinking that they are better than they were back in my early years here.  Just because you have lots of people b!tching at you all the time does not make the issues themselves or the frequency of them any worse.  It simply makes the fallout from such worse on those that have to deal with customers.

 

Or if you made your comment in relation to my comment about the fix actually being rather quick, I'll turn the tables on you -- Are you (or have you ever been) any sort of Technical Support job?  If not, then you have no true idea of what it takes to debug a problem, figure out the actual fix to it that will not break a million other things, get it tested (often in multiple environments) and then deploy it into production.  To accomplish all of that in a 6-hour timeframe is actually "very quick", whether nor not it seemed quick to you.

Edited January 18, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell