Prokofy Neva

Wow A Terrible Search/Places Bug LL Should Fix ASAP

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Search/places, for which we pay $30 per parcel, appears to have ceased functioning at all.

All those parcels cannot be found in search at all.

I have confirmed this for all my ads, over 100, and the ads of two other merchants.

So the Lindens need to get on this five-alarm fire ASAP, it really harms business for people like us who rely on search.

Now let me explain patiently for those who always say "It's your fault, not the software" what this is NOT about.

1. This is NOT about traffic, WHERE you are on search, high or low -- I don't care about that. That's NOT the issue. This bug is NOT about me suddenly losing my standing in search and not showing up - I don't care about that. This is about not being even in search AT ALL -- not in "everything" or "land/rentals" let alone search/places for which I pay thousands of Lindens per week. Try it yourself if you are skeptical.

2. AGAIN This bug is about NOT BEING IN SEARCH AT ALL under a direct search term like "Ravenglass Rentals" *when you pay for the ad* in search/places on the land menu (it's a check-off box). In 12 years of SL, I've never seen this bug. My paid-for search ads (not classifieds, but search/places ads on the LAND MENU) always show up on a search term. That's the norm. Again, it's NOT ABOUT placement high or low on a search term, it's about a search on a direct name not showing up period, and the system saying "No close matches found for "Ravenglass Rentals", expanding to a broader search.

3. This is NOT about having failed to check off adult or mature and land with those designations then don't show up. All three categories are checked off and double-checked.

 

4. This is NOT about my search terms having anything illegal in them against the TOS -- the Lindens remove things if there are pornographic terms or whatever, that is NOT the issue here. Not when they've run for more than a dozen years. Given that two other people have the EXACT SAME problem, it is NOT ABOUT ME. I have to explain that due to certain regulars that pop up with animosity over any issue I raise. This is real, it's a big problem.

5. This is about land put in search/places ads for $30 a pop NOT SHOWING UP AT ALL. We pay for this; it does not work.

PS This is happening now at 3:00 EST on the regular SL viewer.

It may change. Some people with Firestorm say they are now seeing search/places come back up now. Well, that's great but LL needs to make this work for their own viewer.

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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I can reproduce this.

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It may change. Some people with Firestorm say they are now seeing search/places come back up now. Well, that's great but LL needs to make this work for their own viewer.

It still reproduces on Firestorm viewer web search.
Firestorm & some other TPVs still have the option to use the legacy places search.
The bug does not reproduce when using legacy places search but it is definitely broken when using web search in any viewer.  Web search is just a web page (https://search.secondlife.com/)  rendered inside the viewer window so bugs with web search are viewer independant.

Using Firestorm legacy places search, all your Ravenglass parcels still show:

image.thumb.png.43fdcbabed0b143c88d96b8471a1c04b.png

 

Using Websearch -> Places gives zero results.

image.thumb.png.371d18f2c4b38d07b6383b4b8ef40e97.png

Edited by Whirly Fizzle
Typo

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I can confirm that there are no results for Ravenglass Rentals under both 'Places' or 'Land & Rentals' in the LL viewer.

There are 8 results when searching under 'Everything' but those are all groups.

I'm wondering if something might have gone awry with LL's collections of the L$30, so that it could be much more widespread. Examining the account's transactions would show that one way or the other.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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I see nothing on grid status about search problems.  I'll file a LL JIRA issue for this shortly.

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Please make sure to update this JIRA ticket with some SLURL examples of places that aren't showing up in Search that have the box checked. In a quick test, I wasn't able to reproduce this—all of the places I investigated with the box checked appeared in search. Ravenglass, specifically, did not appear to have the box checked on any of the land I investigated, which would make sense if you were under the impression that it was nonfunctional at the moment, but it does make it difficult to confirm the bug.

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Just to add - the viewer always shows the "Show place in search" setting  disabled unless you are the owner of the parcel.  I'm presuming you checked the parcel settings while in God mode though, or you checked at the back end.

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I can attest to this happening on a lot of varying parcels. Places I hang out, my own place (Yiff Alley Lounge) and the like are all not showing in search outside of groups for them potentially. Something is definitely busted with search at the moment. There are a few entries that aren't the thing showing up when searching something, but they mostly seem lower traffic spots and the like and are few and far between.

This is not affecting just ravenglass and i can definitely tell you that search is enabled for yiff alley lounge. I can tell you right now that it is effecting a LARGE number of places. With ravenglass I know of at least 4 places having issues now and places that would normally show up as alternatives to other places when searching for those places are not showing up either so it is quite massively widespread at the moment. This isn't just a handful of stuff. Blueberry isn't showing up (she wouldn't remove her store from search suddenly), yiff alley lounge isn't showing up, heffa, tropical futa fanatics, some nude beaches, vinyl isn't showing up either, nor is erratic. These are big name stores and places that are large enough that it's a widespread issue.

 

You should be looking into it effecting the whole of SL Jagix and take it quite seriously because something got screwed up somewhere and is affecting the grid in a large large way currently. 

Edited by Lina Pussycat

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51 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

Please make sure to update this JIRA ticket with some SLURL examples of places that aren't showing up in Search that have the box checked.

That's easier said than done when the JIRA is closed for comments. Here is one example. maybe Whirly or somebody else who has the permission to comment on the JRIA can forward it?

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Keswick/150/230/39

 

Edited by ChinRey
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37 minutes ago, Lina Pussycat said:

 it is effecting a LARGE number of places.

so it is quite massively widespread

This isn't just a handful of stuff.

 it's a widespread issue.

 take it quite seriously because something

got screwed up somewhere and

is affecting the grid

in a large large way currently. 

all this for just a little borked search...

in dutch we would say... overdrijven is ook een vak

(exaggeration is also a skill)

 

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It's not exaggeration. I know of at least 2 dozen places at this point being affected including several LARGE stores and hangout spots. It's not an exaggeration when it is affecting a whole slew of regions not just specific parcels. Search shouldn't be messing up at any point in time to this degree considering how long it has been around. 

I'd of guessed it was affected regions on Second Life Server 18.01.08.511751, however that doesn't seem to be the case as some places that do show up are on the version. I don't know why you want to attempt to downplay the actual severity of it being down when many people rely on search to actually get places and there are tons of places that are down.

Search Furry and like nearly half or more of the entries that were there the other day are simply gone from search these are places that didn't just up and vanish in a day and it can also cause some confusion to people and the like. I'm obviously smart enough to mitigate crap by sending a notice, but it also means through traffic for people outside of my places group or those that already have landmarks is going to be lower and for some stores that can be a major drag. 

Edited by Lina Pussycat

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12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

all this for just a little borked search...

in dutch we would say... overdrijven is ook een vak

(exaggeration is also a skill)

 

I don't know that I'd call it a "little" borked.  Currently, you can't find many (maybe most or all) places via the Search.  Last night, I could not find a single store that I searched for - well over a dozen.

Additionally, while L$30 is not a lot of money in the grand schema of things, if someone is paying that amount for hundreds or thousands or parcels, it can become a large amount.  They are paying for services not being received.

Thus, I think screaming is actually justified in this case. 

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2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I can confirm that there are no results for Ravenglass Rentals under both 'Places' or 'Land & Rentals' in the LL viewer.

There are 8 results when searching under 'Everything' but those are all groups.

I'm wondering if something might have gone awry with LL's collections of the L$30, so that it could be much more widespread. Examining the account's transactions would show that one way or the other.

No, you can't do it that way. Group land with these search/places boxes does not show individual $30 debits on the transactions pages. Instead, it debits automatically the aggregate amount once a week on Tuesdays only. So if you have set the group to have only officers pay fees, you will have the total fee divided by 2 or 3 or however many. I have group members share in fees, so I wouldn't see this showing up until next Tuesday.

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1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Thanks for filing that, it is INDEED an issue and not just for me.

Yep, while me and you may have had our differences in the past Prokofy I agree with you here pretty hard. It is affecting a lot of people and needs to seriously be looked at. No one like Alwin should be attempting to downplay just how bad it actually is. It is worst for people like you that have a lot of parcels that are in search directly as it is costing you money with no benefit while that is down. I've even attempted to toggle it off and then back on just to see if it did anything and it did absolutely nothing. Many many many places are down in searching including some of Second Life's biggest stores. 

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26 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

all this for just a little borked search...

in dutch we would say... overdrijven is ook een vak

(exaggeration is also a skill)

 

It's not a little borked. All paid ads are not showing up. It's not about me. It's about all the merchants of SL who use search/place.

Of course, the giant stores do not use it, so that's why the screaming will not reach the ears of LL. They don't do their advertising this way. They either need no search at all because they are overwhelmed with traffic (like a merchants' event) or they use classifieds, not search/places, or they let traffic come from the top fashion blogs. 

I don't think you know much about commerce in SL and possibly you yourself aren't engaged in it, I don't know.

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1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's not a little borked. All paid ads are not showing up. It's not about me. It's about all the merchants of SL who use search/place.

Of course, the giant stores do not use it, so that's why the screaming will not reach the ears of LL. They don't do their advertising this way. They either need no search at all because they are overwhelmed with traffic (like a merchants' event) or they use classifieds, not search/places, or they let traffic come from the top fashion blogs. 

I don't think you know much about commerce in SL and possibly you yourself aren't engaged in it, I don't know.

To be fair many still rely on searches for some form of advertising too or as a means to find the place. Fashion blogs help, but they only tend to drive traffic momentarily when a new release tends to hit and a lot of people don't tend to rely on landmarks and instead rely on search. My place relies on search almost entirely (minus a few videos that have been made at the place that are floating around). It affects a lot of places period some of which are large and some of which are small, but as you say it's not about you and it isn't about your place, me, or my place, or any singular place. It is about all places and everyone that uses and relies on these systems. 

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1 hour ago, Jagix Linden said:

Please make sure to update this JIRA ticket with some SLURL examples of places that aren't showing up in Search that have the box checked. In a quick test, I wasn't able to reproduce this—all of the places I investigated with the box checked appeared in search. Ravenglass, specifically, did not appear to have the box checked on any of the land I investigated, which would make sense if you were under the impression that it was nonfunctional at the moment, but it does make it difficult to confirm the bug.

The boxes are checked on more than a hundred land parcels, Jagix, go and look at the parcels. Some samples:

Example 1

Note check is visible in this screenshot, but if you go there, you won't see it.

Example 2

Example 3

 

But...Perhaps you are not aware that there is a very long-time bug in SL -- over a decade -- which renders the view of search/places ads for non-officers of the group as if it is an empty box and not checked. I didn't realize this bug persisted even for Lindens.

This is very exasperating because customers who pay you $30 for an ad, or who are told the $30-ad is included in their rent, cannot see the checked-off box, even as members of the group. It just doesn't show -- period. After raising this for years I gave up because it isn't a priority for LL, possibly because god-powers don't extend to overriding it.

So I am inviting you to be an officer in my group so you can go to these parcels and see the check is in fact there, you just couldn't see it before.

Please note that I cannot add these sorts of obvious information items to the JIRA because I was banned from the JIRA years ago for explaining that return of group-set items in groups  by members not given that power is a bug, not a feature.

I think possibly you have no idea how difficult the lot is of people with group land in SL, given their neglect by LL for years because they simply aren't a priority compared to private islands.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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9 minutes ago, Lina Pussycat said:

To be fair many still rely on searches for some form of advertising too or as a means to find the place. Fashion blogs help, but they only tend to drive traffic momentarily when a new release tends to hit and a lot of people don't tend to rely on landmarks and instead rely on search. My place relies on search almost entirely (minus a few videos that have been made at the place that are floating around). It affects a lot of places period some of which are large and some of which are small, but as you say it's not about you and it isn't about your place, me, or my place, or any singular place. It is about all places and everyone that uses and relies on these systems. 

No. The reason this problem isn't fixed already or admitted by LL is because not a single big merchant or creator shares it. It is a "little guys" problem.

I think you likely haven't researched this. Spend some time trying to find the big events and big stores in search/places. You'll find they aren't there. Because:

1. A store names their entire island after themselves so they can have people come directly by the map search, not web search

2. They don't want traffic -- events are overwhelmed.

3. They don't need traffic -- they have Marketplace sales and inworld is merely an add-on.

4. They don't even know about search/places -- yes, I have schooled several major names on this issue over the years and they marvelled at it and then put themselves in search.

5. Some people who make thousands of dollars in real life every month don't like a recurring $30 expense -- well, one of the reasons the rich are rich is they cut costs like this.

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1 hour ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Just to add - the viewer always shows the "Show place in search" setting  disabled unless you are the owner of the parcel.  I'm presuming you checked the parcel settings while in God mode though, or you checked at the back end.

It's a bug, not a feature. God-mode's inability to see it, even is a bug.

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Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

No. The reason this problem isn't fixed already or admitted by LL is because not a single big merchant or creator shares it. It is a "little guys" problem.

I think you likely haven't researched this. Spend some time trying to find the big events and big stores in search/places. You'll find they aren't there. Because:

1. A store names their entire island after themselves so they can have people come directly by the map search, not web search

2. They don't want traffic -- events are overwhelmed.

3. They don't need traffic -- they have Marketplace sales and inworld is merely an add-on.

4. They don't even know about search/places -- yes, I have schooled several major names on this issue over the years and they marvelled at it and then put themselves in search.

5. Some people who make thousands of dollars in real life every month don't like a recurring $30 expense -- well, one of the reasons the rich are rich is they cut costs like this.

I'm not sure you've actually researched that one yourself recently Prok. All the big name stores are in search and show traffic. Blueberry is by far one of the largest stores in SL and is in search and doesn't rely on classifieds. The stores relying on classifieds are usually a crap shoot and aren't all that large by any means. I actively shop and go around to places in SL. What you are stating is something that occasionally happens, but it is seldom the stores you actually hear about or would actually give a ***** about that tend to use those tactics or rely only on them.  I can't name a single store I've been to in the last 5 years that has employed that tactic, though I likely shop at far different places than you do. 

Maybe they did that crap in the past, but no recent big name store at all has done that. You know damn well I'm around long enough to know full well the tactics employed by places over the years. I've been in SL about 8 months less than you have and I also shop a lot. 

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28 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I don't think you know much about commerce in SL and possibly you yourself aren't engaged in it, I don't know.

 it's not your business to know what i do, and dont need to know.

And totally irrelevant what i do.

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