Should commercial ventures and estates in SL be allowed to discriminate?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Fact check needed.

be my guest

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Suppose someone opened a restaurant, and posted a sign that said... "no blacks allowed".

Someone else opens a restaurant next door that says "everyone welcome"

If everything else was the same, (quality of service, price, etc) which restaurant will thrive and which one will fail?

Depends. Where is it and what year is it?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

23 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

Ah, the old "It's their own fault" argument. The Constitution should be taken literally when it comes to guns, but not literally when it says "All men are created equal." Now, of course we understand it truly didn't mean ALL at its inception, but a majority of Americans like to think we take it literal now. Except we don't.

We have certain inalienable rights... to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Happiness is in no way shape or form guaranteed.

And we are created equal, that doesn't mean we are entitled to all finish equal.

Those that try harder succeed, those that choose to wallow in the mire of their own existence, end up finishing there.

Actually you can thank LBJ and his great society for partially destroying the black lower class and ensuring generational poverty and dependence on the government welfare state. Why marry the father of your kids when the government will give you a check.

Gotta love those democrats.

Here is a fun read.

https://www.snopes.com/lbj-voting-democratic/

[BilliJo Aldrin]

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, there's always going to be a few who abuse their newly discovered power. But I'd venture to say there are far, far more in a protected class who are genuinely discriminated against even now. And so it's ridiculous to bring up the example you have really. What's next...the welfare queen story?

Its funny  I look at civil rights and marvel at how far we have come, the "victims" look and say omg we've barely started, look at how far we still have to go.

*as long as one Confederate flag still flies anywhere in america*

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed a word

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Officer,  i was just mugged.

Can you give me a description? Age, sex, height, weight, clothes,  color?

Oh you racist pig,  I don't see sex, age, height, weight, socio economic status or color.

I only see human beings of equal worth and one of them just robbed me, so keep your prejudices to yourself and go find them

*shrugs*

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed one word to make it more inclusive

[Nalytha]

37 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Its funny  I look at civil rights and marvel at how far we have come, the "victims" look and say omg we've barely started, look at how far we still have to go.

*as long as one Confederate flag still flies anywhere in america*

I'm not a victim and I still think we have a long way to go... some of us are unwilling to accept the status quo, and thank God. Because if everyone accepted things as they were, we'd still be bowing to a Queen on a far away island, selling slaves at the docks, and making sure our water fountains weren't tainted by "those people." 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Nalytha
Spelling

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Nalytha said:

I'm not a victim and I still think we have a long way to go... some of us are unwilling to accept the status quo, and thank God. Because if everyone accepted things as they were, we'd still be bowing to a Queen on a far away island, selling slaves at the docs, and making sure our water fountains weren't tainted by "those people." 

Hyperbole once again. Why do I bother?

[Nalytha]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Why do I bother?

That's a pretty good question. 

[Paul Hexem]

47 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, there's always going to be a few who abuse their newly discovered power. But I'd venture to say there are far, far more in a protected class who are genuinely discriminated against even now. And so it's ridiculous to bring up the example you have really. What's next...the welfare queen story?

You're right, discussing potential consequences is for losers.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Why is it that whenever I post on a thread with a controversial topic, the thread has a little "hot" marker beside the topic?

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a couple of words

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I'm off to log in to SL,  anyone wants to hang out, shoot me an IM

 

[Ceka Cianci]

I would just like to say that I was picked on equally by people in the many different races I've encountered..

But I forgave them because,When you're one of a kind it's only natural they gonna be jelly..

[Luna Bliss]

33 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Those that try harder succeed, those that choose to wallow in the mire of their own existence, end up finishing there.

Actually you can thank LBJ and his great society for partially destroying the black lower class and ensuring generational poverty and dependence on the government welfare state. Why marry the father of your kids when the government will give you a check.

Gotta love those democrats.

It's easy to judge others when you have no ability to empathize. But reality is so much more complex than your simplistic assessments. I guess it gives you a sense of power huh...to believe you're so special that you could handle anything that comes your way, and that those who are unable to are, as you say "choosing to wallow in the mire of their own existence because they haven't tried harder to succeed".

Abuse, neglect, forced slavery, prejudice...this causes damage in the Psyche that is immensely difficult to overcome, and has damaging effects even across generations. Some people do overcome, but it's almost always because they were lucky enough to find a supportive environment to help them. We are who we are because of the wings others have given us. We still have a choice to fly or not, but the flight is 100% easier when given a base to take off from.

You were given a base, but you're spoiled and just don't know it, and think it's all down to 'special strong you'.  Check your privilege.
I really wouldn't mind if it was just you and your delusions, but your attitude is so blaming and abusive to others who have had to endure such pain AT OUR HANDS, and so I have to confront you.

PS -- Generational poverty in the black community was not caused by LBJ...it was caused by slavery.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's easy to judge others when you have no ability to empathize. But reality is so much more complex than your simplistic assessments. I guess it gives you a sense of power huh...to believe you're so special that you could handle anything that comes your way, and that those who are unable to are, as you say "choosing to wallow in the mire of their own existence because they haven't tried harder to succeed".

Abuse, neglect, forced slavery, prejudice...this causes damage in the Psyche that is immensely difficult to overcome, and has damaging effects even across generations. Some people do overcome, but it's almost always because they were lucky enough to find a supportive environment to help them. We are who we are because of the wings others have given us. We still have a choice to fly or not, but the flight is 100% easier when given a base to take off from.

You were given a base, but you're spoiled and just don't know it, and think it's all down to 'special strong you'.  Check your privilege.
I really wouldn't mind if it was just you and your delusions, but your attitude is so blaming and abusive to others who have had to endure such pain AT OUR HANDS, and so I have to confront you.

PS -- Generational poverty in the black community was not caused by LBJ...it was caused by slavery.

You know what, go tell all that to a successful black person. Ask him if he succeeded because of the handouts he was given to assuage white guilt.

[Nalytha]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

You know what, go tell all that to a successful black person. Ask him if he succeeded because of the handouts he was given to assuage white guilt.

Handouts given to assuage white guilt? A lot of these so-called handouts are not exclusively designed for African Americans. Most of them are available to everyone. So, I'm not sure how that's a handout given to assuage white guilt. Are you saying they benefit disproportionately from them? Then perhaps we should look at why they disproportionately need them. 

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's easy to judge others when you have no ability to empathize. But reality is so much more complex than your simplistic assessments. I guess it gives you a sense of power huh...to believe you're so special that you could handle anything that comes your way, and that those who are unable to are, as you say "choosing to wallow in the mire of their own existence because they haven't tried harder to succeed".

Abuse, neglect, forced slavery, prejudice...this causes damage in the Psyche that is immensely difficult to overcome, and has damaging effects even across generations. Some people do overcome, but it's almost always because they were lucky enough to find a supportive environment to help them. We are who we are because of the wings others have given us. We still have a choice to fly or not, but the flight is 100% easier when given a base to take off from.

You were given a base, but you're spoiled and just don't know it, and think it's all down to 'special strong you'.  Check your privilege.
I really wouldn't mind if it was just you and your delusions, but your attitude is so blaming and abusive to others who have had to endure such pain AT OUR HANDS, and so I have to confront you.

PS -- Generational poverty in the black community was not caused by LBJ...it was caused by slavery.

You know what, go tell all that to a successful black person. Ask him if he succeeded because of the handouts he was given to assuage white guilt.

I would say any person succeeds due to a supportive community and a determination not to give up. But even this determination not to give up was probably learned/enhanced/encouraged from a strong parent.
Identity formation is a complex topic, and confused by the fact that each individual is usually not aware of its development while forming.

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

handouts he was given to assuage white guilt.

HandUP, not "handout"........and not to assuage white guilt, but given because we see the past and know it's the right thing to do.

[Chic Aeon]

Honestly I got tired of reading and skipped to the end --

But just wanted to note that long, long, long ago when the TOS was SO MUCH SHORTER and before the lawyers (or maybe just more expensive lawyers) came into the picture there actually WERE clauses about discrimination which was "not allowed". That was actually when personal islands were like brand new and so how the growth of those fit into the conversation and clauses we can only guess. P

Personally I have no problem with sim owners deciding who and who cannot enter their space -- whether residential or commercial. Shop owners ALSO have the ability to make their choices and can pick from a wide variety of shop spaces OR make their own. Personally I have never felt comfortable being in a place or group where I was unwanted so I am having a difficult time figuring out why this is so important to the OP.

 

So that's my bit of history and a comment.

It is MY TENTH REZ DAY TODAY -- and no the typist was NOT bored on New Years Eve. I was born in the day and was actually an experiment in making a "live" silver manikin. That did not work, but once born it was hard keeping me down LOL. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Chic Aeon said:

It is MY TENTH REZ DAY TODAY

Happy Rez Day, Chic!!!

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Exactly Gadget. I've worked in retail, and there's only one color in retail, its GREEN

However, that clearly wasn't the case in some parts of the USA as recently as 50 years ago, and businesses that discriminated on racial grounds managed to prosper.  

Do you not think that laws forbidding discrimination against people on the grounds of their ethnic background may have had a lot to do with any changes that that happened since?

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

However, that clearly wasn't the case in some parts of the USA as recently as 50 years ago, and businesses that discriminated on racial grounds managed to prosper.  

Do you not think that laws forbidding discrimination against people on the grounds of their ethnic background may have had a lot to do with any changes that that happened since?

 

Of course, and if we just had more and more and more laws, we could legislate a true heaven on earth.

*rolls eyes*

[Innula Zenovka]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Of course, and if we just had more and more and more laws, we could legislate a true heaven on earth.

*rolls eyes*

I don't quite understand.   Do you think that discrimination in the provision of goods and services in some parts of the USA would have ended anyway, because of market forces,  without the need for any legislation, or would you agree with me that legislation was necessary?

  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't quite understand.   Do you think that discrimination in the provision of goods and services in some parts of the USA would have ended anyway, because of market forces,  without the need for any legislation, or would you agree with me that legislation was necessary?

  

I think that there is a market to provide goods and services to anyone that has the money to buy such things. I hope you aren't going to tell me that black people in the Jim Crow South were unable to buy food or clothes or cars, or gasoline or furnishings for their homes

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word

[Nalytha]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I think that there is a market to provide goods and services to anyone that has the money to buy such things. I hope you aren't going to tell me that black people in the Jim Crow South were unable to buy food or clothes or cars, or gasoline or furnishings for their homes

This is turning really dark... and sad.

[Callum Meriman]

10 hours ago, Hunter Stern said:

Linden Lab Inc. is still bound by state and federal law under jurisdiction of the State of California.

The CA law is applied very selectively is all I can say. Hardcore beast, slavery, dolcett and a lot more is still allowed.

As to a business discriminating here, I don't see the harm. One *can* change gender here trivially. If the business in question hates men, the avatar always has the option of shapeshifting into a female, just as other groups are asked to change avatar to suit the environment.

You can't do this change so easily in real life.

Hunter, if you wish to visit Women only shops build a female avatar. Obey the wishes of the Sim owner, they pay the teir.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Callum Meriman