Should commercial ventures and estates in SL be allowed to discriminate?

[Innula Zenovka]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I think that there is a market to provide goods and services to anyone that has the money to buy such things. I hope you aren't going to tell me that black people in the Jim Crow South were unable to buy food or clothes or cars, or gasoline or furnishings for their homes

I didn't ask you that.   You said that you had worked in retail, where there is only one colour, green.   Clearly, though, that wasn't the case in parts of the USA some 50 years ago, when some businesses providing goods and services weren't interested in the colour of your money if your skin was the wrong colour.

I am simply asking you if you think that that situation -- which I am sure we both agree was thoroughly undesirable -- would have changed anyway, because of market forces, or if you think it needed legislation to change it.    

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, Innula Zenovka said:

I didn't ask you that.   You said that you had worked in retail, where there is only one colour, green.   Clearly, though, that wasn't the case in parts of the USA some 50 years ago, when some businesses providing goods and services weren't interested in the colour of your money if your skin was the wrong colour.

I am simply asking you if you think that that situation -- which I am sure we both agree was thoroughly undesirable -- would have changed anyway, because of market forces, or if you think it needed legislation to change it.    

I suspect there were very few merchants that would have refused to accept your money regardless of your skin color.

There wouldn't have been white and colored bathrooms in major departments stores if blacks were not allowed in the front door would there?

[Callum Meriman]

1 hour ago, Nalytha said:

we'd still be bowing to a Queen on a far away island

Oi, Lizzie is Wonderful. You guys can bow to Trump, God save the Queen!

 

[Nalytha]

Just now, Callum Meriman said:

Oi, Lizzie is Wonderful. You guys can bow to Trump, God save the Queen!

 

Oh, trust me, I’d gladly cross the stream and bow!

[Pamela Galli]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suspect there were very few merchants that would have refused to accept your money regardless of your skin color.

Just a lot of lunch counter owners I guess?

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suspect there were very few merchants that would have refused to accept your money regardless of your skin color.

There wouldn't have been white and colored bathrooms in major departments stores if blacks were not allowed in the front door would there?

[Luna Bliss]

[Innula Zenovka]

14 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suspect there were very few merchants that would have refused to accept your money regardless of your skin color.

There wouldn't have been white and colored bathrooms in major departments stores if blacks were not allowed in the front door would there?

Presumably not.  And clearly some restaurants served people of different skin colours in different sections of the restaurant, and bus companies carried people of different colours in different different sections of the same bus.    Though obviously some restaurants did simply refuse to accommodate black customers.

Do you say that this discrimination and segregation would have ended anyway, because of market forces, or do you share my view that legislation was necessary to put an end to it? 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Innula Zenovka

[Luna Bliss]

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well that just goes back to my original contention that owners of private businesses should be able to decide who they want to serve.

I'm sure the restaurant down the street served everyone.

*shrugs*

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Presumably not.  And clearly some restaurants served people of different skin colours in different sections of the restaurant, and bus companies carried people of different colours in different different sections of the same bus.    Though obviously some restaurants did simply refuse to accommodate black customers.

Do you say that this discrimination and segregation would have ended anyway, because of market forces, or do you share my view that legislation was necessary to put an end to it? 

I suppose you'll say slavery wouldn't have ended either unless we fought a war in which 100,000 people died.

[Ceka Cianci]

28 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

This is turning really dark... and sad.

I agree..

Threads that take a turn like these, never end well and always seem to get filled with misinformation and anger and go dark fast..

People only have to graze close to the subject before the course gets changed..I'm sure I don't have to say that out loud to anyone really..

In my opinion from my own observation..people never seem to be looking for actual education or results or wanting to communicate,but more  just to argue about what they have learned..I never hear much about personal experiences from others..yet so many are the expert of what is going on..

These threads always seem to have this left and right feel to me, with this north and south civil war still on thing..

How can we expect people to move on when people are still fighting a war that ended long ago.?

 

Until people really want to fix something,it's always gonna go dark.

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Ceka Cianci

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I agree..

Threads that take a turn like these, never end well and always seem to get filled with misinformation and anger and go dark fast..

People only have to graze close to the subject before the course gets changed..I'm sure I don't have to say that out loud to anyone really..

In my opinion from my own observation..people never seem to be looking for actual education or results or wanting to communicate,but more  just to argue about what they have learned..I never hear much about personal experiences from others..yet so many are the expert of what is going on..

These threads always seem to have this left and right feel to me, with this north and south civil war still on thing..

How can we expect people to move on when people are still fighting a war that ended long ago.?

 

Until people really want to fix something,it's always gonna go dark.

 

Guess its time for LL to put a lock on the thread... no wait... they are on break till Tuesday

*grins*

[Innula Zenovka]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suppose you'll say slavery wouldn't have ended either unless we fought a war in which 100,000 people died.

I don't know why you find it so difficult to answer a simple question.  

Clearly some restaurants served people of different skin colours in different sections of the restaurant, and bus companies carried people of different colours in different different sections of the same bus.    Though obviously some restaurants did simply refuse to accommodate black customers.

Do you say that this discrimination and segregation would have ended anyway, because of market forces, or do you share my view that legislation was necessary to put an end to it? 

No need to go off at tangents about the US civil war or anything else.   I am asking a perfectly simple question about discrimination in the provision of goods and services in the USA some 50 years ago.   Why do you find it so difficult to answer?

[Nalytha]

I think they don’t believe market forces would have stopped the practice because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the practice and no need to stop it. People today should be able to hang those same signs. 

Hopefully I’m wrong in that interpretation. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

9 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't know why you find it so difficult to answer a simple question.  

Clearly some restaurants served people of different skin colours in different sections of the restaurant, and bus companies carried people of different colours in different different sections of the same bus.    Though obviously some restaurants did simply refuse to accommodate black customers.

Do you say that this discrimination and segregation would have ended anyway, because of market forces, or do you share my view that legislation was necessary to put an end to it? 

No need to go off at tangents about the US civil war or anything else.   I am asking a perfectly simple question about discrimination in the provision of goods and services in the USA some 50 years ago.   Why do you find it so difficult to answer?

Separate but Equal was decided to be legal by the supreme court.

As  I said before,  I'm opposed to forced segregation as well as forced integration.

In a free society, people must have the right to decide who they want to associate with, and who they don't want to associate with

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[Janet Voxel]

This painful racial discourse was brought on by a guy in his fee fees about not being able to go to a women only sim. 

Too funny. \o/

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Lets not forget, money, not race is the ultimate deciding factor in the unequil distribution of goods and services. 

I suppose we need to rectify that inequality next.

 

[Nalytha]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Separate but Equal was decided to be legal by the supreme court.

As  I said before,  I'm opposed to forced segregation as well as forced integration.

In a free society, people must have to right to decide who they want to associate with, and who they don't want to associate with

"Equal but separate" -- the phrase the actual original law used... and it's well established that the services or accommodations were not anywhere near equal. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Nalytha

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Guess its time for LL to put a lock on the thread... no wait... they are on break till Tuesday

*grins*

That was not meant towards you just so you know, or to just any one side..I'm not a fan of either the left or the right when it comes to this subject..At least these days..Neither seem to  want to do much more than just bicker to bicker..

I usually stay away from these threads when they turn this way..Mainly because they are not part of any sort of a cure or attempt at one but more, they just end up being fuel for the fire..

I probably should have kept my peace in this one as well,but it just kind of spilled out a little..

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That was not meant towards you just so you know, or to just any one side..I'm not a fan of either the left or the right when it comes to this subject..At least these days..Neither seem to  want to do much more than just bicker to bicker..

I usually stay away from these threads when they turn this way..Mainly because they are not part of any sort of a cure or attempt at one but more, they just end up being fuel for the fire..

I probably should have kept my peace in this one as well,but it just kind of spilled out a little..

 

 

Oh I know, it takes at least two people to keep a thread going. 

*waiting to hear people start saying "ok, I'm done , I'm not going to post again"*

Edited December 31, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
took out a word

[Innula Zenovka]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Separate but Equal was decided to be legal by the supreme court.

As  I said before,  I'm opposed to forced segregation as well as forced integration.

In a free society, people must have the right to decide who they want to associate with, and who they don't want to associate with

You're doubtless more familiar with US constitutional law than am I, but I'd thought Brown v Board of Education  went the other way.

I am not quite sure what deciding with whom you want to associate has to do with anything, though.   I mean, when I go to a restaurant with someone, I would would say I'm associating with my companion not with the party on the next table.   Similarly, when I get on a bus or the London Underground I wouldn't say I was associating with all the other passengers who happen to be using it at the same time.    And certainly if I use a public restroom I would not say I am associating with other people who happen to be using it at the same time.    Certainly not!

You still haven't been able to give me a straight answer to my simple question, I note.

[Nalytha]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Oh I know, it takes at least two people to keep a thread going. 

*waiting to hear people start saying "ok, I'm done , I'm not going to post again"*

 

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'm off to log in to SL,  anyone wants to hang out, shoot me an IM

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, Innula Zenovka said:

You're doubtless more familiar with US constitutional law than am I, but I'd thought Brown v Board of Education  went the other way.

I am not quite sure what deciding with whom you want to associate has to do with anything, though.   I mean, when I go to a restaurant with someone, I would would say I'm associating with my companion not with the party on the next table.   Similarly, when I get on a bus or the London Underground I wouldn't say I was associating with all the other passengers who happen to be using it at the same time.    And certainly if I use a public restroom I would not say I am associating with other people who happen to be using it at the same time.    Certainly not!

You still haven't been able to give me a straight answer to my simple question, I note.

I can't answer it.  I can't see into the hearts and minds of millions of business owners in the South.

Obviously laws forced it to end. I have no idea if it would have ended naturally or not, but we'll never find out will we?

[Janet Voxel]

I'll just leave this here....