LL is sitting on a gold mine

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Ok, the tier of a full sim on mainland is 195 dollars of which an unknown amount is profit after all the expenses of hosting the sim and running LL are deducted. Ungrandfathered / non buy down estate sims net LL an additional profit of 100 dollars a month. But what about the goldmine they are sitting on?

 I refer to all that abandoned mainland. 

Tier on a 1/16 sim parcel (4096 sq m) is 25 dollars a month. If 8 such parcels are occupied, that bring in the equivalent of rent for a full sim.

But if all 16 parcels are rented, the tier for that sim becomes 400 dollars a month of which 200 dollars is pure profit over the normal profit. 

Why oh why doesn't LL subdivide all of mainland, and offer it for sale at 1 L a parcel, just like estates do.

Even a partial migration back to mainland would greatly increase LL's income from land tier.

I'm sure many more people would love to live on mainland if only it wasn't so difficult to obtain land with paying land gouger prices.

Just my thoughts, even though i'm sure they will be ridiculed, shot down, dismissed, and torn apart.

*shrugs*

 

[KanryDrago]

why would people wish to migrate to mainland even at 1$ a parcel?

1) Annoying neighbours that you cant do anything about

2) I would need to be premium costing a minimum of 6$ + 25$ for tier on a 4096 parcel whereas on a private island I pay just 5200 lindens per month which costs 21$ so it costs me 10$ more a month for mainland

The only advantage is your landlord doesnt vanish and that is such a small problem that its not worth talking about it

[NevaehHeartstrings]

Something needs done, it has been neglected way too long! just like the linden homes.

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

Always a balance for the Lab. Any people they tempt over to mainland with $1 parcels would be lost from Estates.

Estate sims earn the lab more.

 

Edit: Going to the fabulous grid servey for some facts:

20.7% to 21.4% of Mainland by area is abandoned parcels (details - 11th Jan 2017)

Monthly Tier Estimates - Private Estates c.US$2.970 Million, Mainland c.US$0.704 Million

Edited November 24, 2017 by Callum Meriman

[Chic Aeon]

12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

I would need to be premium costing a minimum of 6$ + 25$ for tier on a 4096 parcel whereas on a private island I pay just 5200 lindens per month which costs 21$ so it costs me 10$ more a month for mainland

 

I haven't checked the median price of a 4096 on island land but just wanted to note that if you pay premium YEARLY is is only about $1.25 a month (current stipend).  So still more but not that much more. :D.  

 

[KanryDrago]

still 6$ more and I value being able to complain about other tenants if need be when they are being antisocial (not that I have needed to as yet) plus if something happens my landlord is happy to defer payment for a week or two. LL wont do that

[MoiraKathleen]

I actually like that there is abandoned last next to and behind my parcel.  I don't know how to interpret all the metrics regarding sim resources, but my perception is that if there is land not being used (whether protected land or abandoned land) that there is less chance of all the sim resources becoming maxed out.  

While prices on land vary widely, from reasonable to extremely excessive, what limits me from acquiring more land isn't the initial purchase price, but the ongoing monthly tier cost.  

[ChinRey]

6 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

why would people wish to migrate to mainland even at 1$ a parcel?

1) Annoying neighbours that you cant do anything about

I'm a huge mainland fan msyelf and would never even think of moving to an island but I still agree with you one hudnred percent. Mainland should be for those who want neighbors, the islands for those who don't.

 

[Louise Fyrewik]

You have neighbours on island regions as well, but the third party rental companies are much more responsive to complaints. Dropping a complaint at Linden Labs doesn't really do anything. That's what is meant with annoying neighbours you can't do anything about.

[Phil Deakins]

Those who have been in SL a long time may have forgotten, and certainly those who haven't didn't experience it, but when mainland was full (it used to be pretty much full), there were always general complaints due to neighbours putting up ugly builds that block views, putting up clubs that caused huge lag for people who lived in the same sims, and so on. The most common suggestion was that LL ought to zone sims, so that some were residential only. Stuff like that. These days, a lot of mainland is unused, and we don't hear that sort of complaint or suggestion any more.

Do we really want to go back to a full mainland? I certainly don't. A full, but zoned, mainland might work, but I'm happy with all the unused abandoned land around. If island people moved to mainland, it would mean islands disappearing. I can't know, but I imagine that LL is financially better off with the way things are.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I'm not trying to make this a mainland vs estate debate, all I'm wondering is why LL doesn't do something to  try and make each mainland sim revenue neutral or profitable instead of so many being a deficit on the budget.

Mainland will always be large patches of abandoned land that cost money for LL until LL tries a new approach 

 

[Phil Deakins]

I imagine that the mainland is very profitable for LL as it is.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I imagine that the mainland is very profitable for LL as it is.

And whats wrong with a plan to make even more profit?

No one will be forced to move to mainland but I'm sure many people would jump at the chance to buy a mainland parcel on the same terms that they buy an estate parcel.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, lavalois said:

You have neighbours on island regions as well, but the third party rental companies are much more responsive to complaints. Dropping a complaint at Linden Labs doesn't really do anything. That's what is meant with annoying neighbours you can't do anything about.

Well, yes you can complain to the landlord, unless of course the land lord allows ban lines, giant ugly screens and worst of all vertical land walls.

On a 4096 on an estate you are trapped on your little parcel with no interaction with anyone at all.

On the other hand, just this morning I had to chase off a guy that was trying to steal one of my cars parked outside my place on a mainland road. I consider that a positive thing.

And no that's my bf not the car thief

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
deleted the picture, snowflakes make a mess when they melt

[BilliJo Aldrin]

....

Edited November 24, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
irrelevant without the picture in the previous post

[Phil Deakins]

14 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

And whats wrong with a plan to make even more profit?

Nothing at all, but I imagine that the LL management knows what they are doing with land, and I doubt that ideas to significantly increase profits haven't passed them by. From your point of view, it's perfectly simple - get more tier from mainland. Their point of view is different. They have to consider what impact such changes would make on their income, changes such as people moving from islands to mainland.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nothing at all, but I imagine that the LL management knows what they are doing with land, and I doubt that ideas to significantly increase profits haven't passed them by. From your point of view, it's perfectly simple - get more tier from mainland. Their point of view is different. They have to consider what impact such changes would make on their income, changes such as people moving from islands to mainland.

Okey lets say i'm a newly premium member. I think oh boy now i can buy mainland. Hmmm i can pay outrageous prices from a land gouger, or i can find a parcel and have it put for auction and hope i can outbit a land gouger, or i can just say screw it and buy a parcel on an estate right away for 1 L.

That's why so many people choose an estate, not because they want to, but because the alternative sucks.

LL is driving potential land owners away from mainland with the way it allows mainland to be aquired.

Money is money. LL makes as much money from a half full mainland sim as it does from a grandfathered / buy down estate sim but filing up mainland reduces its losses

[Phil Deakins]

I don't know where you got the idea that parcels that are for sale on the mainland are being sold by what you call 'land gougers', and at outrageous prices. Coincidentally, I was looking at mainland parcels a couple of days ago, and I didn't see any that were outrageously priced.

 

15 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

That's why so many people choose an estate, not because they want to, but because the alternative sucks.

That's your opinion, but I have a different one. Mine is that people pick private estates because (a) they are usually much more attractive - water, beach, and such, (b) because there's a covenant to protect them from ugliness, and (c) because there is hands-on, quick customer care for tenants.

 

15 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

LL is driving potential land owners away from mainland with the way it allows mainland to be aquired.

I don't really know what you mean by that. Mainland is acquired in the same way it has always been acquired - see it, buy it. Or bid in LL's auction for it. I don't see that LL is driving potential landowners anywhere but, if they are intentionally driving them to private estates, then they must have decided that it suits them financially.

You seem to have acquired a bee in your bonnet about mainland prices, but generally they are fine. Maybe you are only thinking about Adult land when you talk about price gouging. Or maybe you haven't been in SL all that long, and you think that anything much higher than 1L per sqm. is outrageous.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't know where you got the idea that parcels that are for sale on the mainland are being sold by what you call 'land gougers', and at outrageous prices. Coincidentally, I was looking at mainland parcels a couple of days ago, and I didn't see any that were outrageously priced.

 

That's your opinion, but I have a different one. Mine is that people pick private estates because (a) they are usually much more attractive - water, beach, and such, (b) because there's covenant to protect them from ugliness, and (c) because there is hands-on customer care for tenants.

 

I don't really know what you mean by that. Mainland is acquired in the same way it has always been acquired - see it, buy it. Or bid in LL's auction for it. I don't see that LL is driving potential landowners anywhere but, if they are intentionally driving them to private estates, then they must have decided that it suits them financially.

You seem to have acquired a bee in your bonnet about mainland prices, but generally they are fine. Maybe you are only thinking about Adult land when you talk about price gouging. Or maybe you haven't been in SL all that long, and you think that anything much higher than 1L per sqm. is outrageous.

 

ALl i'm saying is LL should subdivide all their mainland and sell it for 1 L a parcel. Its the tier they want, not the sale price.

They will then be on an equal  footing with estate owners. The customers can then decide if they want mainland or estate.

Then if a mainland land owner gets bored and wants to move, he just abandons it and buys another parcel for 1 L, again just like on an estate.

And for the record, some of the ugliest sims I've ever seen are on private estates

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Tell me Phil... why don't estate owners sell their estate parcels for more than 1 L? 

When you tell me why they don't, you will be telling me why LL should sell all their mainland at 1 L per parcel

[bigmoe Whitfield]

I will not buy mainland or hell even rent on it.  why, because the griping and complaining of certain sets of members, if I block teh whole region from being flown over, I'm evil, if I do basically anything with the region I rent, I'm evil.   nope.  private estates, even if they cost a little more are well worth it.

[ChinRey]

24 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

ALl i'm saying is LL should subdivide all their mainland and sell it for 1 L a parcel. Its the tier they want, not the sale price.

They will then be on an equal  footing with estate owners. The customers can then decide if they want mainland or estate.

Oh, now you're starting to make sense.

But the answer is still no; the worst thing that can possibly happene to Linden Lab's income right now, is a mass migration from private estates to mainland.

For every mainland sim Linden Lab can manage to fill with people moving from the islands, there would be at least three or four private sims closing down. No estate owner is making money from a three quarter full sim and none can afford to keep a half full sim for long. So, if a quarter or more of the tenants on a private estate moves to mainland, the owner will have no choice but to close the sim and very few of the remaining tenants are likley to ever rent or own land in SL anymore.

It might have been different back when SL land was popular and there was a significant influx of new wannabe landowners and renters. But that was many years ago.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ChinRey

[Phil Deakins]

Nevertheless, private estates are much more attractive in general.

I'm not saying that you are wrong. What I am saying is that I see no gouging and outrageous sale prices on mainland (I don't visit adult land and I think that gouging does occur there, but that's only a small bit of mainland). I'm also saying that doing what you suggest would have effects on pivate estates. LL can see the whole picture, and only they can know what the potential outcomes of your suggestion would be.

Incidentally, how big would these 1L parcels be? 512m, 2048m, whole sims? You can't just say "per parcel". And don't forget that LL sold the mainland in whole sims for thousands of US$ per sim. Perhaps that was before your time, but to turn around now and sell mainland for a nominal pittance wouldn't be quite right. Yes, I know that those who bought the sims cut them up and sold them on. Even so, people have been buying land at reasonable prices since the start. Suddenly making land worthless wouldn't be the best of ideas that LL could come up with, imo.

A better idea is one that some of us have been suggesting for many years. Abandon the doubling of land sizes for tier; i.e. 512, 1024, 2048 .... 32k, 64k. If we were able to pay for the land we want, I am sure that more mainland would be used. But increasing the tier by a large amount from say, 32k to 64k, puts people off from stepping up. E.g. if someone has 32k, and wants a bit more, they can't have it without hugely increasing their tier up to the 64k level. But if they could add, say, another 4k to their 32k and only pay for the new size, adding land would be much more attractive.

Having said that, we don't see the whole picture and it would undoubtedly result in people with, say 32k, reducing to, say, 24k, because they don't need all the 32k.

None of it simple. LL can see the whole picture, and make reasonable guestimates on the outcome of changes. We can't. You can't, and I can't.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, ChinRey said:

Oh, now you're starting to make sense.

But the answer is still no; the worst thing that can possibly happene to Linden Lab's income right now, is a mass migration from private estates to mainland.

For every mainland sim Linden Lab can manage to fill with people moving from the islands, there would be at least three or four private sims closing down. Nobody estate owner is making money from a three quarter full sim and none can afford to keep a half full sim for long. So, if a quarter or more of the tenants ona  private estate moves to mainland, the owner will have no choice but to close the sim and very few of the remaining tenants are likley to ever rent or own land in SL anymore.

It might have been different back when SL land was popular and there was a significant influx of new wannabe landowners and renters. But that was many years ago.

What you say is very true  I suppose. And like others have said, if LL is happy with the situation, why should they consider making changes?

[Phil Deakins]

11 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Tell me Phil... why don't estate owners sell their estate parcels for more than 1 L? 

When you tell me why they don't, you will be telling me why LL should sell all their mainland at 1 L per parcel

It's because they don't sell land - not even for 1L. They never did. But you know that. All they want is a tenant. The 1L and 0L is just a way of making it seem cheap - a bit of a con, really.

I'd still like to know what size the 1L mainland parcels will be that you propose.