What's going on in the LEA Committee?

[Chic Aeon]

14 minutes ago, apw9900 said:

Looks like the thread is going a bit off topic.

 

It has never been about money, tip jars, long working hours or potential financial compensation for being a member of the LEA Committee.

 

My post was about the LEA Committee that, according to the LEA Bylaws, hasn't been competent to transact business for two reasons:

 

1) For more than a year there has been less than 7 members of the LEA Committee. The Bylaws states that there must be a minimum of 7 members.
2) Three (3) members of the LEA Commitee has exceeded the two term policy stated in the LEA Bylaws.

 

Hence, every decision made by the LEA Committee for more than a year has been invalid.

 

But, some might say, they changed the bylaws last year so everything is fine now.

 

The LEA Committee might have done so, but when doing so one of the members of the committee had exceeded his term by 2 years and was (and still is) a member of the committee when the decision to change the bylaws was made.

 

Hence, that decision too is invalid.

 

That's what my post is about.

So what is your suggestion then?

You want LEA disbanded so that NO ARTISTS get to build their full sim dreams and NO VISITORS get to see, explore and enjoy those sims?

You want to take over the LEA when you have almost NO IDEA (obviously from your posts) how it actually works?

I am having a difficult time figuring out a positive agenda to all your comments. 

 

Why don't you give us all YOUR PLAN in very minute detail?  Be precise now, no big paintbrush strokes.

I am guessing some of us would like to know it. And since "no Lindens come to the forums" but we all know that they do, maybe this is a way you can feel you can be heard.  After all, you MUST have some great ideas for moving forward without the current committee members.  Otherwise you would just be tearing down something that has been enjoyed by many many thousands of people over the years. 

 

 

[apw9900]

3 minutes ago, Dekka Raymaker said:

So what do you want to happen then?

 

I want the LEA Committee to work by the LEA Bylaws and not by their own agenda. It's quite simple actually.

[apw9900]

3 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

So what is your suggestion then?

Why don't you give us all YOUR PLAN in very minute detail?  Be precise now, no big paintbrush strokes

 

I actually did make a short plan on the very first page of this thread:

I would suggest that every 2 years there were held an open election where candidates could run for a seat in the Committee. That way a candidate would be elected based on his or hers vision for the next two years instead being chosen based on friendship and relation with existing committee members.

And committee meetings shouldn't be a secret. Summaries of all meetings should be public (unless of course there is a reason for keeping them secret in case of protecting 'personal information' and so on).

 

That way each Committee member would be held responsible for his/her action at the next election. Do a good job and you can get your second term. ***** it up and you're out.

 

Or in other words: more transparency in the way LEA is run.

[Chic Aeon]

6 minutes ago, Dekka Raymaker said:

To reiterate, the sims are owned wholly by Linden Lab.

Some committee members, not all, have ownership of the sims for the purpose of running those sims as caretakers. 

When a sim is given to an artist for their use, they are given ownership of that sim, just like renting a private space on any sim.

There are no rewards for being a committee member, they give their time freely. You have to be committed too, there are certain days and times you have to be there to do the job, or make sure someone covers for you.

Committee members are less likely to be offered a sim to have as their own, if that's not now the case, it should be. However, at some point in their SL life if they have a good proposal for an art sim, there is no reason why they shouldn't be awarded one.

No one is suppose to make money on a LEA sim, no selling, no tip jars. Freebies are allowed and encouraged. I actually believe more artists should award visitors with some full perms gifts, as a learning tool and to encourage more building in SL, but that's my personal belief.

Nothing is perfect. Criticism should be welcomed and if the LEA committee can improve from this, then all the better. However, this argument appears to have been started with another agenda in mind.

If you have a complaint, then surely you should know how you would like it to be resolved. What do you want? If you can't answer that, shut up and go away.

 

A couple of corrections.

 

Only two committee members are caretakers of the land; currently, the two that have been there the longest but that could be wholly coincidental. Linden Lab chooses the people that are the "land owners" of the 30 sims.

 

Committee members are not allowed to apply to AIRS or use the sims for their own projects. Thus, not only do they give their time freely with no recompense, they cannot benefit from the endowment themselves.

 

[Dekka Raymaker]

Thanks for clearing that up Chic Aeon. But I did say 'some', not 'all' have ownership, I didn't know how many.

1 minute ago, Chic Aeon said:

A couple of corrections.

 

Only two committee members are caretakers of the land; currently, the two that have been there the longest but that could be wholly coincidental. Linden Lab chooses the people that are the "land owners" of the 30 sims.

 

Committee members are not allowed to apply to AIRS or use the sims for their own projects. Thus, not only do they give their time freely with no recompense, they cannot benefit from the endowment themselves.

 

 

[Chic Aeon]

10 minutes ago, apw9900 said:

I actually did make a short plan on the very first page of this thread:

I would suggest that every 2 years there were held an open election where candidates could run for a seat in the Committee. That way a candidate would be elected based on his or hers vision for the next two years instead being chosen based on friendship and relation with existing committee members.

And committee meetings shouldn't be a secret. Summaries of all meetings should be public (unless of course there is a reason for keeping them secret in case of protecting 'personal information' and so on).

 

That way each Committee member would be held responsible for his/her action at the next election. Do a good job and you can get your second term. ***** it up and you're out.

 

Or in other words: more transparency in the way LEA is run.

Edited for misspelling. 

You have a plan for getting now   new  committee members; I want to hear how you plan to make the LEA BETTER!

If you can't make improvements (or even be assured that things can continue successfully as they have been for years) then I see no big benefit to anyone. 

 

As a side note, I can assure you that most people that joined the committee while I was there were not asked because of friendship. I knew NO ONE when I was asked. I knew no one that joined while I was there until after they joined and I met them at a meeting. All the nepotism you keep referring to is not really there --- at least it wasn't the three years that I was there and I doubt things have changed. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[apw9900]

5 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Only two committee members are caretakers of the land; currently, the two that have been there the longest but that could be wholly coincidental. Linden Lab chooses the people that are the "land owners" of the 30 sims.

 

And both current caretakers has exceeded their two terms in the committee by 10 months by now.

According to the bylaws their time ran out in January this year.

[Dekka Raymaker]

10 minutes ago, apw9900 said:

I want the LEA Committee to work by the LEA Bylaws and not by their own agenda. It's quite simple actually.

Well now we know they are, bylaws have changed. But if you give me an example of decisions being made by a present committee member for their own agenda, then that would have to discussed and changes be made, so do you have an example?

[Chic Aeon]

4 minutes ago, Dekka Raymaker said:

Thanks for clearing that up Chic Aeon. But I did say 'some', not 'all' have ownership, I didn't know how many.

 

I think it has always been two. It was two when I was there and still is; it could have been different in the beginning years :D. 

[apw9900]

2 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

You have a plan for getting now committee members; I want to hear how you plan to make the LEA BETTER!

 

If committee members left their seats when their time ran out it would be a great improvement.

If committee members were elected and not chosen it would be a great improvement.

If LEA focused more on new and upcoming artists instead of giving land to already established artists that too would be a great improvement.

[apw9900]

6 minutes ago, Dekka Raymaker said:

Well now we know they are, bylaws have changed. But if you give me an example of decisions being made by a present committee member for their own agenda, then that would have to discussed and changes be made, so do you have an example?

By not leaving their seats in the committee after serving 2 terms looks very much to me like working after an alternate agenda.

[Chic Aeon]

OK. This is getting very tiring and I see nothing else positive coming from it.   

If Linden Lab wants to hold elections then there will be elections. 

If not, the OP can rant forever on.    Or perhaps get a landowner to donate some sims so that his version of what LEA should be can materialize. OR buy his own!    I am guessing The Lab won't be banging on his door to offer up some more sims. 

 

Of course I could be completely wrong. I have no credibility after all.

And with that I am leaving this thread.  I am going to go MAKE SOME ART.

 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:46 PM, apw9900 said:

I really don't think that is going to happen. The LEA Committee doesn't like to answer troublesome questions. I posted the attached questions to their Facebook group a while ago. I never got an answer but shortly, very shortly after I was banned from the group.

Perhaps other aspects of your communication style played a role...

https://savemeoh.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/team-fascist/

[apw9900]

5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Perhaps other aspects of your communication style played a role...

https://savemeoh.wordpress.com/2017/11/20/team-fascist/

Please enlighten me ...

 

Tell me how something I wrote on YouTube 2 days ago retroactively could have affected the respond to a question I posted to the LEA Facebook group in June last year. Do you actually mean, that the LEA Committee is so foresighted that they already 15 months ago knew I would make comments to a maschinima Iono Allen released 5 days ago?

 

Or have we reached a point by now where some of you have run out of arguments and instead of relating to the actual topic of this thread you start using distractions in order avoid giving position?

 

But for your sake I will repete what my topic is:

 

1) For more than a year there has been less than 7 members of the LEA Committee. The Bylaws states that there must be a minimum of 7 members.
2) Three (3) members of the LEA Commitee has exceeded the two term policy stated in the LEA Bylaws.

 

Hence, the LEA Committee hasn't been competent to transact business for quite some time according to their own bylaws

 

I rather like to hear your view on that dilemma.

[apw9900]

6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

OK. This is getting very tiring and I see nothing else positive coming from it.   

Of course I could be completely wrong. I have no credibility after all.

And with that I am leaving this thread.  I am going to go MAKE SOME ART.

 

 

Yes, you must be busy.

Because looking at the list of artists that have been granted access to LEA sims, it do look like ex-committee members doesn't have problems getting one.

But that is something I might bring up in another thread at another time.

[Livio Korobase]

Apw, you started this useless discussion stating that " There seems to be some irregularity or perhaps even fraud in the way the LEA Committee is working".  Or you put in table a fraud case, with evidence and witnesses, or you are falling in a defamation. I don't know at your place, but in Italy this can take you in a tribunal. You understand? You have not exposed a single argument justifying your statements. Things can be done more well? Sure, but this is not scandalous, is just normal life.

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

This is all terrible, but I wouldn't expect anything less of a FIC-like thing, i.e. favoritism machine, created by the Lindens.

I've never had much use for the LEA and I don't really know if it accomplishes much. I think SL would be better off if the arts were supposed by land companies or top merchants -- and in a way it is, at each merchant's event becomes a work of art of sorts, and some of them even have art exhibits. But truly, I think more could be done in the private sector. Socialism doesn't work.

And the problem with governance is that a) most people don't care about it and don't want to put in the effort it requires b) the Lindens don't like wasting time on governance, which is endless and doesn't pay for them.

So it's hard to get anyone to care about term limits and such. You couldn't get the outside press to care, for example, it's too obscure, and that's all that works in a closed society -- publicity, outside it.

So it seems to me that you have to do the research to show that BECAUSE of this nepotism/authoritarianism/lack of democracy/lack of fresh blood whatevever, the ART has suffered. And that you may not be able to prove.

Can you show that it's the same people giving to their friends over and over again? That the exhibits aren't very good?

I once worked in a foundation in RL where the boss told me openly -- "I don't care if you give grants to your friends; just make sure you have GOOD friends," i.e. that they are talented and merited.

So are the grants good anyway? Just glancing at some of the Destinations LEA, I'd have to say you might have trouble making the case of poor quality due to poor governance. But maybe you can, I just don't know.

The issue is really fairness. New people can't get into a situation like this. But they have to want to. And if they can't get action, they have to form an alternative group and lobby for attention.

[apw9900]

41 minutes ago, Livio Korobase said:

Apw, you started this useless discussion stating that " There seems to be some irregularity or perhaps even fraud in the way the LEA Committee is working".  Or you put in table a fraud case, with evidence and witnesses, or you are falling in a defamation. I don't know at your place, but in Italy this can take you in a tribunal. You understand? You have not exposed a single argument justifying your statements. Things can be done more well? Sure, but this is not scandalous, is just normal life.

 

Well Livio,

 

I will 'cut it out in paper' for you then, as we say in Denmark.

 

If you look at this page, you will see the current LEA Committee:

 

http://lea-sl.org/about/lea-committee

 

If you look at this page, you will see the LEA Bylaws before they were removed from their site:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20160216054505/http://lea-sl.org/about/lea-bylaws

 

And if you look at this page, you will be able to look at the LEA Committee for the years 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 by clicking on each year. And by doing so you will notice that three (3) names occurs in all 5 years. They should only have been in the committee 4 times as they appear first time in January 2013:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lea-sl.org/about/lea-committee

 

Then look at this page and do the same:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Endowment_for_the_Arts_Committee

 

Then you will notice that one (1) member of the current committee has been a member in each and every LEA Committee each and every year since 2010.

 

I have done my recearch, Livio :-)

 

And that proves my point that:

 

1) For more than a year there has been less than 7 members of the LEA Committee. The Bylaws states that there must be a minimum of 7 members.
2) Three (3) members of the LEA Committee has exceeded the two term policy stated in the LEA Bylaws.

 

Hence, the LEA Committee hasn't been competent to transact business for quite some time according to their own bylaws.

 

And that, and only that, is what my problem with the LEA Committee is about.

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by apw9900
correction

[Resi Pfeffer]

56 minutes ago, Livio Korobase said:

Apw, you started this useless discussion stating that " There seems to be some irregularity or perhaps even fraud in the way the LEA Committee is working".  Or you put in table a fraud case, with evidence and witnesses, or you are falling in a defamation. I don't know at your place, but in Italy this can take you in a tribunal. You understand? You have not exposed a single argument justifying your statements. Things can be done more well? Sure, but this is not scandalous, is just normal life.

Maybe my answer is also useless, but in germany we say: "Getroffene Hunde bellen". Means, you are protesting a bit too much, if you understand?

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 hours ago, apw9900 said:

Please enlighten me ...

 

Tell me how something I wrote on YouTube 2 days ago retroactively could have affected the respond to a question I posted to the LEA Facebook group in June last year. Do you actually mean, that the LEA Committee is so foresighted that they already 15 months ago knew I would make comments to a maschinima Iono Allen released 5 days ago?

 

 

No, I'm saying that the person who'd write those comments on YouTube might not be the innocent upholder of the public good that they make themselves out to be. Right now we only know your half of the story.

[apw9900]

14 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

No, I'm saying that the person who'd write those comments on YouTube might not be the innocent upholder of the public good that they make themselves out to be. Right now we only know your half of the story.

If you read my very first post that started this thread then you will actually get the full story. It's all about the LEA Committee and the mandate they administer.

 

I am off to work now and won't be able to respond to any questions until later this afternoon.

[Livio Korobase]

1 hour ago, apw9900 said:

Well Livio,

 

I will 'cut it out in paper' for you then, as we say in Denmark.

 

If you look at this page, you will see the current LEA Committee:

 

I know the story, but is all completely legal. The committee can do this activities, they are on charge. You can just say i disagree, maybe propose your solutions. But no, you are fixed on your rant, defaming people. Happy you happy all, but stop with this really silly discussion. Again, i ask you to talk about a real and true case of fraud or violation. If you don't have, you are wasting your and our time whimpering like a 3 year old baby.  

[ChinRey]

5 hours ago, apw9900 said:

Or have we reached a point by now where some of you have run out of arguments

If so, that wouldn't be Theresa, she just joined the thread.

Anyway, I'm with Chic, this is getting boring now.

It was interesting to learn that LEA once was a significant actor in the SL art scene. It is of course sad that it isn't anymore but there are other forums and other venues.

As for revitalizing LEA, please feel free to give it a try but I think you're whipping a dead horse .

Edited November 22, 2017 by ChinRey

[Kennylex Luckless]

//
Let's take it from the beginning where you point out two points in the Bylaw
5.1.5 Term for Committee Members shall be 2 years (commencing with the ratification of these bylaws).
5.1.6 Committee Members may serve up to 2 terms.

You then point out that some members of LEA Committee have been within the committee longer than so and you ask the question, "How is that possible".

That question can be answered by reading the point that followed the two points you highlighted.
5.1.7 After 2 terms, Committee Members may be moved to Ex Officio status. 
 -[cut]-
5.3.2  Ex Officio members may be eligible to move back to Committee Member after serving 4 months as an Ex Officio and with an unanimous vote of the Committee Members (see clarification of abstentions in section 5.1.4.1 and proxy votes in section 5.1.4.2 above).
 

6.6 Advisors and Ex Officio do not have voting rights for any matters.
//

What I understand by reading the Bylaws there is nothing that stop a member from being able to be active within the committee more more than two years and there is points in the Bylaw that say how grievances shall be handled, there is also a section (10) that take up the ownership of the LEA sims.

Another thing that are important to read are:
12.1 The bylaws may be amended, altered, or repealed by a 80%  vote of the Committee at any regular or special meeting.  The text of the proposed change shall be distributed to all Committee Members at least 5 days before the meeting.

You have also stated "I am not an artists, hence I have never been rejected. And I have no intention of being a part of the LEA Committee", and that make me a bit confused, for at the same time you complain publicly you have over the years not (what I can see) showed any will to change anything by involve yourself with LEA as an guest, advisory or in any sub-committee, nor as an active artist.

So my last question; what is your goal with this post, what do you want to achieve, what do you want us to do to make you satisfied in this question?

[SaveMe Oh]