Faster credit processing... but higher fees

[Medhue Simoni]

Well, I did finally get my money. It took over 2 days. This doesn't impress me at all, and if it can't be done in a day, then I'd rather pay less and get it in LL's usual 4 days. This improvement is minimal, at best, and they are charging us quite a bit more. Now, I'm on the side of those that are complaining about this. I had to use it first tho. Maybe it will be faster the next time, but I have little faith in that maybe. And seriously, what did they improve here? LL can now say the credit processing can take 2-5 days, instead of 3-5 days. Whipdido!

[Medhue Simoni]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

It's probably still not a good idea to cash out too close to a weekend,

or maybe they don't know you. I believe they need to know you. Do they know you? :matte-motes-dead: 

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It's supposed to be automated, so it shouldn't matter, at all, what day I cash out.

IMHO, it's ridiculous that a person with 9 years of documented transactions/credit processing, it takes an automated system 2 days to approve me. No, I don't feel like a valued customer. And really, what bonehead at LL thought it was a good idea to charge us more for this crap? Again, it's fricken ridiculous.

 

I'd also like to point out, that I told LL to do this exact thing when they took over Xstreet. Strangely enough, all of a sudden LL is implementing quite a few things I've ranted about over my many years. And Yes, I'm going to fricken claim my dues on things I told them to do in the past, cause it's all here in the forum archives, for anyone to read. I told them to do the credit processing in this exact way they are doing it. Again, I can prove this in the forum logs. What they've done here tho, is a total fail. Plus, never once did I advise them to raise the price of cashing out. Economically, it is just not smart. Why do I say this? Because LL should want their creators/merchants to make as much as possible, as the more the merchant class makes, the better SL does. We are LL's real marketing. It's kind of like they are biting the hand that feeds them.

[Phil Deakins]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

I'd also like to point out, that I told LL to do this exact thing when they took over Xstreet. Strangely enough, all of a sudden LL is implementing quite a few things I've ranted about over my many years. And Yes, I'm going to fricken claim my dues on things I told them to do in the past, cause it's all here in the forum archives, for anyone to read. I told them to do the credit processing in this exact way they are doing it. Again, I can prove this in the forum logs. What they've done here tho, is a total fail. Plus, never once did I advise them to raise the price of cashing out. Economically, it is just not smart. Why do I say this? Because LL should want their creators/merchants to make as much as possible, as the more the merchant class makes, the better SL does. We are LL's real marketing.

It's kind of like they are biting the hand that feeds them.

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Nothing new there, then.

I'd be surprised if it actually surprised you.

[KrystalKandy]

Stop saying it is supposed to be automatic. They never once said it would be automatic, you crack me up lol

 

On a semi good note ..  I am in Canada and it used to be 8 days for LL to get the funds to my PP and then another two days from PP to my bank. I did my cash out, during the late evening on the 5th and had my funds by the 8th, so for me, that is a big difference. 3 days vs the usual10 I have had to deal with for years here? I'll happily take it. 

[KrystalKandy]

Well that makes more sense, I stand corrected!

[Medhue Simoni]

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KrystalKandy wrote:

Stop saying it is supposed to be automatic. They never once said it would be automatic, you crack me up lol

 

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You should actually listen to what Ebbe actually says. Before it was all manually checked. With this new system, trusted merchants with consistent credit processing get in the fast lane, and get cashed out sooner. How exactly do you think this can happen, if it isn't automated? This is basic logic.

[Landon Edenbaum]

Medhue, I am curious as to what time of the day did you cash out? Also I would like to know just how many people have cashed out since the new fees and have gotten their money faster than usual (let's say within 3 days)? I cashed out on the 5th late at night and have gotten nothing yet. I know they say that some people won't get their money faster but then what exactly are the factors that will determine who does and who doesn't? I've been cashing out for almost two years every week and have never had a problem aside from having to wait too damned long. They even have all my RL information on file because they requested it last year. So what exactly determines who does and who doesn't get paid faster? To me all this just seems like a gimmick to squeeze a few dollars more here and there by the Lab because they really need the cash and by saying "some people won't get it faster" they are just really saying "nothing really changes here but we are using careful words so you won't sue us".

[Innula Zenovka]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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KrystalKandy wrote:

Stop saying it is supposed to be automatic. They never once said it would be automatic, you crack me up lol

 

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You should actually listen to what Ebbe actually says. Before it was all manually checked. With this new system, trusted merchants with consistent credit processing get in the fast lane, and get cashed out sooner. How exactly do you think this can happen, if it isn't automated? This is basic logic.

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Could it not mean that it's partially automated?   There is, as you will be aware, a concept in basic logic known as the fallacy of the false dichotomy.

It could also be the case that the automated system involves a built-in delay, in case the the known and trusted merchant has unknowingly received funds that have been fraudulently obtained.

[KrystalKandy]

I hear what you're saying, I really do. But automated processing does not mean "immediate results". As I said in a reply to someone else on here. I cashed out late evening on the 5th and had my funds by 9:00 am yesterday morning (the 8th) in my paypal account. So it is definitely faster than it was for me before in having to wati 8 full days just for them to process it. This is my second account, but like you, I have been in sl almost 9 years and also like you, have always cashed out L's regularly. I wish it was faster for all of us ... it's frustrating to have to wait. Hopefully you will see something soon. I aos imagine that with the influx of people who know about this that are trying to cash out every L they can, that is bogging the system down as well. 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Landon Edenbaum wrote:

Medhue, I am curious as to what time of the day did you cash out? Also I would like to know just how many people have cashed out since the new fees and have gotten their money faster than usual (let's say within 3 days)? I cashed out on the 5th late at night and have gotten nothing yet. I know they say that some people won't get their money faster but then what exactly are the factors that will determine who does and who doesn't? I've been cashing out for almost two years every week and have never had a problem aside from having to wait too damned long. They even have all my RL information on file because they requested it last year. So what exactly determines who does and who doesn't get paid faster? To me all this just seems like a gimmick to squeeze a few dollars more here and there by the Lab because they really need the cash and by saying "some people won't get it faster" they are just really saying "nothing really changes here but we are using careful words so you won't sue us".

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I cashed out at 1:42 SL time on the 6th, and got the money in my PP at 5:40 SL time on the 8th.

Ebbe talked about some of the factors, and it seems that you have most of that info. Beyond that, I can't say. Yes, the way LL has presented this, it does seem very gimmicky, as they aren't really promising anything, except higher fees. When I ranted about these long wait times and proposed the similar system as LL is implementing, I proposed this system because, in theory, especially today, LL gains nothing by holding the money. By distributing the money out faster, LL could gain because of users using that money to buy sims, or equipment to better serve their customers. LL also gains because more users will see SL as a viable way to make money, and more people will create, and/or take their creations more seriously. Any restrictions on the flow of money is a detriment to doing business, not a benefit, as I'm sure you can understand.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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KrystalKandy wrote:

Stop saying it is supposed to be automatic. They never once said it would be automatic, you crack me up lol

 

---

You should actually listen to what Ebbe actually says. Before it was all manually checked. With this new system, trusted merchants with consistent credit processing get in the fast lane, and get cashed out sooner. How exactly do you think this can happen, if it isn't automated? This is basic logic.

---

Could it not mean that it's

partially

automated?   There is, as you will be aware, a concept in basic logic known as the fallacy of the false 

dichotomy.

It could also be the case that the automated system involves a built-in delay, in case the the known and trusted merchant has unknowingly received funds that have been fraudulently obtained.

---

Yes, it could very well be partially automated, but that still means it's automated. Of course there needs to be some safety measures in place. Now, a built in delay is what I was thinking yesterday, but does that really make sense? I have no doubt that LL could have built in a delay, but they could simply revoke the money transfer, if they do see something. Could they not? I'm still open to this not being a complete fail by LL, as it was mentioned, I think, that LL would be more cautious in the beginning. So, we'll see. That said, these extra fees should have been delayed until their system is actually functioning in a beneficial way, and LL knows they have the system working well, IMHO.

[Medhue Simoni]

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KrystalKandy wrote:

I hear what you're saying, I really do. But automated processing does not mean "immediate results". As I said in a reply to someone else on here. I cashed out late evening on the 5th and had my funds by 9:00 am yesterday morning (the 8th) in my paypal account. So it is definitely faster than it was for me before in having to wati 8 full days just for them to process it. This is my second account, but like you, I have been in sl almost 9 years and also like you, have always cashed out L's regularly. I wish it was faster for all of us ... it's frustrating to have to wait. Hopefully you will see something soon. I aos imagine that with the influx of people who know about this that are trying to cash out every L they can, that is bogging the system down as well. 

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Well, I don't think I implied that automated means immediate. My standard for LL's new system is 1 day. That's my standard, as to me, if it's not done in a day, or 2 max, then everything they did was pretty pointless, at least to me. There are many reasons for me only accepting 1 day as a good standard and I won't go into all the reasons why, but the main reason is because we are now paying a pretty ridiculous fee. I'm fine with companies making money, but to go from $1 to $3 minimum, and possibly a lot more, they have to give us back that same value, which they are not, at least not seemingly yet.

[Landon Edenbaum]

Thanks Medhue. Yeah I really don't mind the extra $2 honestly but only if I will get my money faster. If I still have to wait the full 7 days I had been waiting then this so called new system is pointless. I am really not sure what they look at when determining who gets it faster and who doesn't, it would help if they'd let us know. As of right now I still haven't received anything and it's day 4. 

[Rya Nitely]

I wouldn't even be commenting if I was looking at an extra $2. If I continued to cash out my usual way I'd be paying $30 a month. The minumum $3 is if you cash out $200 or less. If I cashed out small amounts it would end up costing me more than the maximum $15. The only way I can pay less than $15 a month is if I accumulate the money and cash out every second month or so. There is no advantage for me at all.

YES, they took advantage of the constant whining about long payout times, and used it as an excuse to charge us more. They didn't care about any of the complaints over the years, or any of the suggestions people say they made.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the motivation was primarily for their financial benefit. The shorter payout times is the pacifier, that may work for some. I spat it out.

[KrystalKandy]

I do agree with you on the points you made in your reply to me. For 3-15.00, yes, it should be a very fast turnaround. 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

YES, they took advantage of the constant whining about long payout times, and used it as an excuse to charge us more. They didn't care about any of the complaints over the years, or any of the suggestions people say they made.

 

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It's gonna cost us more to send digital information(money), than to have something physical sent to our house. Heck, even sending someone an ounce of gold, with insurance, will cost less than cashing out of SL, in some cases.

[Phil Deakins]

LL needs money, and they are scratching around, trying to find where they can get it from. This change doesn't sound like it would add very much to their income but maybe it's worthwhile for them. This, together with the 'buy-down' tier option, tells me that they are desperately looking for money. This one doesn't smack of desperation, but the tier one certainly does. We all know that LL never does anything FOR its customers, so that thought isn't a part of the tier thing or this. It really does sound like desperation to me. Maybe the Sansar development is draining far more money than they'd thought it would.

[HisaDrug]

Very disappointing and somewhat threatening.

 

[Samual Wetherby]

I seem to be one of the 25% that is still seeing 7 day processing times. And at several times since LL forced everyone to exchange through them, 10 days.

This has all been very frustrating.

Paying a higher fee, yet not receiving the benefits.

I sent a support ticket in and got some very disturbing replies from Linden Labs.

"Unfortunately, there isn't much I can discuss on that subject. In most financial decisions, there are a number of factors used to determine the relative "risk" of a specific transaction. In the same way, we determine the "risk" involved in a process credit based on a number of factors - these factors taken as a group determine what level of manual checks need to be made in order to complete the request. This process is in place to minimize the risk to your funds and avoid the possibility of fraudulent transactions. Unfortunately, I can't discuss the specific factors being reviewed or how they factor into the decision."

What "Risks"?

Have been processing weekly if not  more cash outs without issue for years.
Have a 15 year old Business Paypal account
Credit Card on file with Linden Labs.
Zero issues processing ever.

Not sure this is even legal if they are doing some sort of "Risk" analisys, denying someone a service allowed to what they say is 75% (how do you come up with that number before they even started processing faster cash outs?) without informing those effected why they are effected by the slower processing requests for a service they are paying for.

My business partner is getting her's in 2 days, while mine are still taking at least 7 days.

[Alwin Alcott]

you could try, but it most likely costs a little money, let a legal representative as a lawyer send them a letter to explain.

They háve to reply, and explain.

[Samual Wetherby]

Yes it all seems very fishy.

I've seen class action suits against Ebay & Amazon for practices that they were not giving as a whole to it's partons. Or as in recent Ebay class action on their List Until Sold option.

When you pay for a service and LL contributed it's increase in processing fees and offered faster turn around, but only 75% qualify? Really? So the 25% pay the fee but don't see the benefits. Hmmm.

In that case. everyone who does not see the 2 day process should receive a 1.5% or $2 Min refund?

Man I miss VirWox !!!
Instant payouts

[Medhue Simoni]

This is exactly why I never proposed any rate hike.

 

I have more to report, and some of it is kind of disturbing.

So, I've had 2 more payouts since my original. One of them only took a day and a half. Yay! Finally, an exceptable time period for what we are all now paying. Don't get too excited tho, as the next 1 boggles the mind. My last cashout was done purposely on Friday. I wanted to see how this new system treats the weekend. Well, I'm still waiting. It is going on 3 and a half days now. Please, nobody, especially LL, give me the BS, we don't work on weekends deal. Imagine if we could not spend Lindens on the weekend. How a company in today's world can use this weekend BS as an excuse, I will never understand. They fricken accept money on the fricken weekends, don't they.

To sum this up. LL charges us more, a crapload more, then gives us questional improvements, some of which aren't improvements at all. I can only assume that payouts still have to be manually accepted, if they can't fricken process anything on the weekends. I gotta ask. Who approves this crap? IMHO, LL should either rollback the fees, or make them more reasonable for their very marginal improvement.

[Samual Wetherby]

Cashed out 50,000 Sunday. Linden took $12 USD of it in totaly fees.
I most likely won't see it until Friday or this weekend or Monday next week.

I have went round and round with Support and they one devuldge their process for approving.

Seems having Paypay on file, credit card on file. Tax records on file. over 5 years of numerous cash outs a week

Real name, address, phone #, and still something is at risk that they have to take longer to approve it.

[Perrie Juran]

You could post your questions here, like "How come with the new fees we can not get serviced on week ends?"

Lab Chat Returns May 6th, 2016 with Ebbe, Oz, & Troy Linden!

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Upcoming-Events-and-Activities/Lab-Chat-Returns-May-6th-2016-with-Ebbe-Oz-amp-Troy-Linden/td-p/3024729

[Spenser Ames]

I tried to process credit on April 2.  Stll waiting.

 

Three others have been put in.  There are still being processed.

 

Is it just me or was it faster before this?

 

I want my money.