"Voice Verified"

[steph Arnott]

sure, i try harder. Thanks for the slap.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

Maybe true, but it crops up so often as to be 90% correct and that is not just me, 95% of my friends are non USA and they got fed up long before i did and USA friends i have are also fed up with the attitude of their own country people. As for judgement, we get that from the start and that is based on experience.

---

Your mistake is making a gross generalization.  It's like a few American's thinking that a few Europeans are Eurotrash therefore the whole population is Eurotrash.  Which is not the case at all and is the classic thinking of a bigot.

So the handful of people you know are fed up with some American's they know, or what they see on television or movies.  You do know that TV and movies are not real and don't accurately reflect most Americans don't you?  You should also know that if you are judging us by our Government, that there is a lot that it does that a lot of people here disagree with.  Democracy can be a messy thing sometimes.

You are myopic because either your circle is small yet you believe the opinons of a very few are right or you think you are inheritively superior just because you are European.  Well you aren't.  In fact, such statements prove the opposite. Or maybe you are just jealous.

[Perrie Juran]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

steph Arnott wrote:

Maybe true, but it crops up so often as to be 90% correct and that is not just me, 95% of my friends are non USA and they got fed up long before i did and USA friends i have are also fed up with the attitude of their own country people. As for judgement, we get that from the start and that is based on experience.

---

Your mistake is making a gross generalization.  It's like a few American's thinking that a few Europeans are Eurotrash therefore the whole population is Eurotrash.  Which is not the case at all and is the classic thinking of a bigot.

So the handful of people you know are fed up with

some

American's they know, or what they see on television or movies.  You do know that TV and movies are not real and don't accurately reflect most Americans don't you?  You should also know that if you are judging us by our Government, that there is a lot that it does that a lot of people here disagree with.  Democracy can be a messy thing sometimes.

You are myopic because either your circle is small yet you believe the opinons of a very few are right or you think you are inheritively superior just because you are European.  Well you aren't.  In fact, such statements prove the opposite. Or maybe you are just jealous.

---

I normally stay out of this crap but it seems that today I'm having trouble doing so.

You see, in her mind she has probably already classified you as an American Bigot for speaking in such a forthright manner to her.  She all but accused me of the same privately after my initial response to her in this Thread.

We are beginning to wonder who the real bigot is here.  Well, not really, but I agree with your assessment of myopia.

And I guess that now I am an Evil Person for posting this.

Welcome to Real Life Steph.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I am an Evil

Person

Martian.

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FIFY!

[Perrie Juran]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I am an Evil PersonMartian.

---

FIFY!

---

I did not claim to be human.....

A person is a being, such as a human, that has certain capacities or attributes constituting personhood.....

link

But yes, I guess I'm still Evil.  

[steph Arnott]

Am refering to SL not people outside SL, platforms like SL tend to attract a lot of very unpleasant types becouse they can hide behind a computer screen. As this is an SL forum, the remarks are entirely SL and not the 99.999% of USA.

ADDED, If you feel the need to include all in a SL forum to outside parameters, then the best place to express your veiws wouuld be on a yahoo site. But maybe you go too a Ford forum and talk about GMC? Who knows other than you. Mind you i  did assume the big logo with the hand and "second life" at the top of the page was a big clue, must be me thats confused.

[Phil Deakins]

Like you, Perrie, I'm not getting into this either, but also like you, I am

I don't know where in the thread it started, so I don't really know what the 'argument' is about, but I'll just say this:-

There are some U.S. spellings that I prefer to our (English) own. One is color instead of colour. Another is program instead of programme. And there are a few more that aren't springing to mind just now. There are also U.S. spellings that I don't like, such as customize instead of customise. It's a 'z' that I don't like. On a tangent, there's what I thought was a typical U.S. word - gotten - but I recently dicovered that it's one of ours. We don't use it any more but it came from here a long long time ago.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Like you, Perrie, I'm not getting into this either, but also like you, I am

I don't know where in the thread it started, so I don't really know what the 'argument' is about, but I'll just say this:-

There are some U.S. spellings that I prefer to our (English) own. One is color instead of colour. Another is program instead of programme. And there are a few more that aren't springing to mind just now. There are also U.S. spellings that I don't like, such as custom

ize

instead of custom

ise

. It's a 'z' that I don't like. On a tangent, there's what I thought was a typical U.S. word - gotten - but I recently dicovered that it's one of ours. We don't use it any more but it came from here a long long time ago.

---

So is it lobotomise or lobotomize?

I am tempted to post publically what was said to me privately.  Very tempted. It would certainly clarify things.  But I prefer to avoid the RIC hammer.

[steph Arnott]

post it i give permision, am not a coward, put in comtext BTW.

[Pamela Galli]

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steph Arnott wrote:

post it i give permision, am not a coward, put in comtext BTW.

---

Then why not post it publicly to begin with?

[Perrie Juran]

 

This was the private message:

"You are from another country than me, overlaying your countries social ways on others is not far off bigotry. Your idea of funny is to others rude. And you were unneseseraly rude and aggresive for no reason other than what, becouse you got a buzz?"

I'll let you put it in context.

(RL calls so you have lots of time    )

[steph Arnott]

and what did it refer to? Did you forget that part? Also as i said this is an SL forun and not a world forum, yahoo is the place if you want extend the boundtries. The big logo that say "Second Life" is a clue.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

So is it lobotomise or lobotomize?

---

It's spelt with an 's' - obviously

[Pamela Galli]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

This was the private message:

 

"

You are from another country than me, overlaying your countries social ways on others is not far off bigotry. Your idea of funny is to others rude. And you were unneseseraly rude and aggresive for no reason other than what, becouse you got a buzz?"

I'll let you put it in context.

(RL calls so you have lots of time  

 )

---

I don't know the context but I have been reading your posts for a few years now and never seen you post anything rude or aggressive.

[steph Arnott]

As it does not show the whole it can mean what ever you want it to, but as info it was in reference to SL and others expanded it ti include all of USA, as this an SL forum it was taken far beyond the limits if the forum.

[steph Arnott]

"(RL calls so you have lots of time    )" i do have plenty of time, thats why i have no need to work at 32,

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

As it does not show the whole it can mean what ever you want it to, but as info it was in reference to SL and others expanded it ti include all of USA, as this an SL forum it was taken far beyond the limits if the forum.

---

 

You are back pedalling now.  Your original comments did not qualify that you were only  to Americans in SLreferring.  Even if that was your intention, you have probably only met a very small percentage of all Americans in SL, yet you tar all with the same brush.

[Tari Landar]

Bigotry knows absolutely no boundaries. It is not a "US" thing, a "European" thing...or, really any "thing" that can be associated to, or with, one location in the world.

I can say, however,t hat when you meet others with bigotry, your experience(s) with them are more likely to be far less pleasant than you either intend, or desire. You can't blame some folks' bigotry, rudeness, whatever else have you, on their geographic location. You can't blame it on culturual differences, either. We're all, ok mostly, adults. We know right from wrong, we know when we're being rude, and we can have a pretty darn good idea of how things are going to be taken when we say/type them. Of course, some folks are bound to react in ways we didn't anticipate, but that is an exception, not a rule.

To say that "all people fom(insert whatever location)" are, or act a certain way, is bigotry, rude, presumptious and likely giving yourself far more credit than you deserve. Now I don't personally judge folks on their spelling, or grammar. I am well versed in teaching, as well as conversing with, people with varying language skills(which includes languages spoken as well as the capability of working with/around learning difficulties) that stretch across the globe. In other words, I understand language barriers, quite well. That said, regardless of grammar, or spelling, some folks' communication skills are seriously lacking in nearly every single post they make. They'll likely see this as an attack, as I have watched them post here since they joined and am well aware of their common reactions to people. It's not an attack, it's an observation, but it's not a pleasant observation. Some come across rude, constantly, which I suppose is perfectly acceptable if that is how they intend to come across. But, you can't be surprised when they're met with the same kind of responses. It is more likely that the reason they run into so many "rude US people"(and whatever else you want to call us) is due to the fact that they, themselves, are extremely rude to nearly everyone they encounter.

A superiority complex isn't going to get most very far in life, but it will make most of the encounters they have with other people bad experiences. It will make them somehow believe that others are wrong, they are right, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Were all human(ok, there's at least a martian or two, and some other beings as well, I'm sure) here...we're all flawed, we all make mistakes, we're all wrong now and again, and most importantly...we ALL judge. It would be impossible to go an entire lifetime never judging another person. Insisting that you don't merely suggests that you do it on a far more regular basis than the average human.

I often skip over posts that some folks make, primarily because they act like a jerk and can't even hold a nice conversation without getting all...well, jerk-like, even on topics that are really just intended for fun. I find it absolutely no suprise that some have the opinions of "US people" that they do, because they're the more likely cause of it. You reap what you sow in life. Criticism isn't always a bad thing, even when we don't like it, but being over critical of everyone, and everything, won't get you far in life either. Maybe some folks should start reading some of their posts as someone else, and not the person that wrote them. They might understand why they get the responses they do, so very often.

I get crap all the time for making long winded posts that no one wants to read. Does it bug me? Eh, occasionally, but more so in the manner that it makes me question the intelligence of the person trying to insult me(because more than a few sentences seem to confuddle them, completely) than it does "omg someone doesn't like me, or my opinions". Psh. Why would I care if they did or did not? The reason I don't care, is because I don't have a superiority complex, and I have no qualms admitting that I am as flawed as the next person...merely in different ways.

 

 

[steph Arnott]

As you do not know me personaly and i do not bring RL to an SL forum, in regards to people other than SL related, that is your opinion. Also i have a considerable amount of RL friends in SL that are US citizens, half of which have left beciiouse they are fed up witth disfunctinal and emotionaly chalenged people from their own country. As i was affiliated to an inworld university (who are more than likly to pull out this year due to numbers dropping) and the SDA church i have met a rather large percentage. Most long term people in SL keep to small groups now, have their little bit of peace away from RL, build, script, chat etc and are not here for unneeded stress from people that have social interaction issues. This is the main reason i and many others no longer go to clubs that we do not know. Making SL a free for all with no payment info has just allowed unpleasent people open a multitude of accounts knowibg full well they can behave like animals and log onto another account with no comeback. Any how you can make of all that as you wish, my life span is on a short clock and this discustion is endlessly cycling in circles. Have a blessed day.

[Kelli May]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

 

...much that makes sense 

 

---

Thumbs up.

[Pamela Galli]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

Bigotry knows absolutely no boundaries. It is not a "US" thing, a "European" thing...or, really any "thing" that can be associated to, or with, one location in the world.

I can say, however,t hat when you meet others with bigotry, your experience(s) with them are more likely to be far less pleasant than you either intend, or desire. You can't blame some folks' bigotry, rudeness, whatever else have you, on their geographic location. You can't blame it on culturual differences, either. We're all, ok mostly, adults. We know right from wrong, we know when we're being rude, and we can have a pretty darn good idea of how things are going to be taken when we say/type them. Of course, some folks are bound to react in ways we didn't anticipate, but that is an exception, not a rule.

To say that "all people fom(insert whatever location)" are, or act a certain way, is bigotry, rude, presumptious and likely giving yourself far more credit than you deserve. Now I don't personally judge folks on their spelling, or grammar. I am well versed in teaching, as well as conversing with, people with varying language skills(which includes languages spoken as well as the capability of working with/around learning difficulties) that stretch across the globe. In other words, I understand language barriers, quite well. That said, regardless of grammar, or spelling, some folks' communication skills are seriously lacking in nearly every single post they make. They'll likely see this as an attack, as I have watched them post here since they joined and am well aware of their common reactions to people. It's not an attack, it's an observation, but it's not a pleasant observation. Some come across rude, constantly, which I suppose is perfectly acceptable if that is how they intend to come across. But, you can't be surprised when they're met with the same kind of responses. It is more likely that the reason they run into so many "rude US people"(and whatever else you want to call us) is due to the fact that they, themselves, are extremely rude to nearly everyone they encounter.

A superiority complex isn't going to get most very far in life, but it will make most of the encounters they have with other people bad experiences. It will make them somehow believe that others are wrong, they are right, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Were all human(ok, there's at least a martian or two, and some other beings as well, I'm sure) here...we're all flawed, we all make mistakes, we're all wrong now and again, and most importantly...we ALL judge. It would be impossible to go an entire lifetime never judging another person. Insisting that you don't merely suggests that you do it on a far more regular basis than the average human.

I often skip over posts that some folks make, primarily because they act like a jerk and can't even hold a nice conversation without getting all...well, jerk-like, even on topics that are really just intended for fun. I find it absolutely no suprise that some have the opinions of "US people" that they do, because they're the more likely cause of it. You reap what you sow in life. Criticism isn't always a bad thing, even when we don't like it, but being over critical of everyone, and everything, won't get you far in life either. Maybe some folks should start reading some of their posts as someone else, and not the person that wrote them. They might understand why they get the responses they do, so very often.

I get crap all the time for making long winded posts that no one wants to read. Does it bug me? Eh, occasionally, but more so in the manner that it makes me question the intelligence of the person trying to insult me(because more than a few sentences seem to confuddle them, completely) than it does "omg someone doesn't like me, or my opinions". Psh. Why would I care if they did or did not? The reason I don't care, is because I don't have a superiority complex, and I have no qualms admitting that I am as flawed as the next person...merely in different ways.

 

 

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As usual, you nailed it, Tari. :-)  I never think your posts are too long, because you are only saying what most of us are thinking but don't bother taking the time to say.

[Phil Deakins]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

As it does not show the whole it can mean what ever you want it to, but as info it was in reference to SL and others expanded it ti include all of USA, as this an SL forum it was taken far beyond the limits if the forum.

---

I don't recall reading your post that started this particular difference of opinion, but I can say that when posting in a public place, such as this one, about something specific, such as U.S. SL users, you do need to state that you only mean that specific thing. It is not implied just because this is the SL forum. It needs to be stated. Otherwise people will asume that you mean what you said - U.S. people - and not U.S. SL users.

Yesterday, in another thread, someone was 'picked up' for writing 'then' when it should have been 'than'. It's a common mistake, particulary (I think) amongst Americans. (I think I know why they get it wrong, but that doesn't matter). Almost all Americans understand the difference but some don't seem to. I said that, when a person writes 'then' when it should be 'than', it says something about that person to me. This is the SL forum but what I wrote about it didn't mean American SL users writing 'then'. What I wrote about it meant Americans,even though I learned about it here. I don't think for one moment that it's only SL users who get it wrong.

You cannot write about any group of people, such as Americans, is this forum and expect people to understand that you only mean people in that group - unless you say so. To be perfectly honest, that is self-evident. So you can't expect people to accept it when you say that you only meant SL users. If I were on the side finding fault with your original statement, I wouldn't accept what looks like back-tracking either. I'm not on any side because I don't recall reading your original statement.

It's just the same everywhere. If you attended an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and said, "Australians can't spell properly", nobody would assume that you only meant Australians who attend AA meetings. Everyone would believe that you simply meant Autralians. For anyone to understand that you only mean those who attend AA meetings, you have to include it in the statement. Saying it after someone has picked you up on it, is too late and it doesn't work.

ETA: When you make a mistake, it's far better to admit it with something like, "Ooops. I meant people in SL, not all people. Sorry about that." instead of defending it by pointing out that everyone else should have known.

[Kelli May]

@Phil, for clarity.

Part of a reply to one of my posts:

"I guess really the problem is you want every thing perfectly spelt in USA English and perfect in USA grammer, well i speak six langages and can write in five."

I think the same complaint has been raised elsewhere against others, too. As it happens, I'm English, not American. I use English grammar and spelling. I didn't make the point at the time because I'd already stepped away from the argument.

[Phil Deakins]

Ty, Kelli. I do remember reading it, but I'd forgotten.

I'm English too and I usually use English spellings, but I do prefer a few of the American spellings. such color and program, so, these days, I something throw them in

[steph Arnott]

i will define the parmeter in future. Thank you. I did say on at least three occations i was refering to SL.