Those cars on the mainland roads. Grrrrrrr.

[Raven Luna]

I would love to see Michael Linden's response to this discussion - so I will forward it to him.

There is obviously a sharp division of opinion regarding Ann's vehicles. I still say it is a failed experiement. There are MANY sims where you can follow one of these vehicles and see them randomly crashing into every house and business. Region crossings have always been a challenge but - although my 10,000m2 of roadside land allows scripts - vehicles get stuck there often. And not just on land either. I find vehicles at random elevations. I shouldn't find a vehicle 500m in the air.

If we are going to pull the timecard, I've been here almost 7 years. While I appreciate your creativity and longevity, this is still a failed scripting experiment. And every AR filed by me will be entitled "spamming mainland properties" because that is exactly what you are doing. As a longtime resident, I would think you were more dedicated to getting the behavior of these objects right.

I have no disagreement regarding automated vehicles. I like the idea of populating the wonderful road system with public transportation and other types of vehicles. BUT either these vehicles need to created by the LDPW or a Mole because your vehicles simply don't work. It's nice, Ann, that you serve over 250k passengers. That doesn't mean that the vehicles actually get to where they are going. I have personally entered over 20 vehicles just to try to get them re-oriented and back on the road. After tolerating bouncing around for awhile and never finding the road, I either return the vehicle to you or report and block it.

I can't imagine that either Michael or Maestro support this. And after experiencing the successes of the SL Ferry system and the SL Railroad system, am surprised that there isn't a better solution.

Oh, by the way, EVERY creator is responsible for his or her object, no matter the object's behavior. Please don't try to pass this on to landowners. That is just irresponsible. Take responsibility for your object behavior - and either dedicate yourself to fixing it or just pull the plug for all of our sakes. It's not just about your enjoyment of SL. This is a community - remember?

[AnnMarie Otoole]

SL comes with a software set that provides for environmental parameters.  That software is continually being upgraded as reported errors are corrected.  The NO-ENTRY setting on land parcels worked fine for 4 years but about 6 months ago it started randomly failing.   This has caused serious navigation problems for the vehicles since the parcels set to no-entry are typically also set no-script so vehicles are trapped when it should not be happening.

From extensive experience I'm convinced by now that it is not so much a SL software bug but a hardware bug in one or more servers.  The reason is random land parcels get infected while others don't even when adjacent.  They tend to remain infected for a month or two then recover, only to be replaced by a new set of failed parcels.  I'm suspecting the problem moves when the parcels get assigned to a new server and someone else gets the faulty one.

I filed a detailed JIRA but it seems that LL do not have the manpower or incentive to correct it.  If I file a ticket on the problem I get told it is a land problem and the landowner should file a ticket.  If no-entry can be easily violated on just a few (about 25 at any one time in SL) it is NOT a vehicle problem, it is a landowner problem.  I've been sending landowners with "Bad" land instructions on how to get their land fixed.  So far all those that have responded have been appreciative and cooperative.

The official position of SL is that they don't regulate they type of vehicle you run so long as it complies with the TOS.  AR's filed on land encroachment where it is OBBVIOUSLY caused by the SL NO-ENTRY bug receive no AR response.  Its easy to check, take a look at the land they are on and see if it is NO-ENTRY.

Thank you for rescuing stuck vehicles.  If you SIT on a vehicle stranded on no-script land that enables the scripts and they can usually find their way back to the road.

I fail to understand your negative approach.  In what manner was YOUR enjoyment of SL compromised?  Is your land infected too?  The dead ehicles represent zero lag, scripts are OFF and frequently they don't even count against the land prim count.  SL has never retulated appearance.  To quote Michael Linden (from memory) "I don't care if the vehicle is a potato with buggy eyes, SL does not regulate appearance."  Do you file an AR on ugly houses floating in mid air?  What IS your problem?  Go have some fun like the rest of us.

 

[Raven Luna]

Have you actually looked at the pics people have submitted regarding vehicle pile-ups? Have you read the reports from residents who have been chased by or shot at by one of your vehicles?

That's fun?  Really?

My approach has always been to solve the problem. When one person intentionally or accidentally creates a problem for many people, then the problem needs to get fixed. I know we both agree on that one. "My problem" begins when you declare to the forum that you are no longer responsible for your vehicles, that the problem falls onto us, and that you have full LL support. Now it becomes a community problem.  It's not just me - I see quite a few people here who would like you to fix the problem.

My enjoyment of SL is compromised when I go to land I pay for and I see your objects stuck on my land. Doesn't get any more complicated than that. Has nothing to do with prim count or lag. I don't really care about the ugly "in-air" houses in the area. Why? Cause they are not on my land. It's really simple and I really do not understand why you don't get why people don't want your unwanted objects on their land.

So please be the professional that you are (and I suppose you are since since you state that you work so closely with the DPW and your objects affect thousands of residents' experiences in SL every moment) and listen to your fellow residents. You sort of chose to be in the public spotlight when you made these things. So i'd hope that public opinion would help you to make a better product so we can ALL have fun in SL.

[Raven Luna]

The Yavascript Pods, the Paradise Jeep tours, the ferry, and the SLRR on Atoll Continent are all AWESOME. And fun I might add.  ;-)

[AnnMarie Otoole]

Just a minute there, Raven.

1. Yes I'm VERY familiar with the pile-ups, I inspect them all daily to see if the landowners have logged in to correct their problem.  Many have been cleaned up.

2. Yes I've had dozens of reports from residents who have been shot at.  Most are delighted, some not, you can't please everyone.  The missiles are fake so no one is injured.

3. That's fun?  Really?  Yes to most it is quite entertaining.  Some get their jollies by bitching.  If it helps to entertain them I'm happy to provide the catylist.

4. I didn't create the problem .  It is an SL BUG.  I'm responsible for all vehicles but vehicles trapped by the bug are left so the land owner can file a ticket to get their land fixed.

5. My enjoyment of SL is compromised when I go to land I pay for and I see your objects stuck on my land.  HUH? they are NOT on your land.  If they are on your land and your land suffers from the no-entry bug then you are part of the problem, not the solution.  File a ticket and get it fixed.  If they are not on your  land it is no concern of yours.  If your land is not suffering from the bug and vehicles ARE getting stuck, send me an IM, we respond to all problem locations witin 24 hours or better.

6. It's really simple and I really do not understand why you don't get why people don't want your unwanted objects on their land. That is an imaginary assumption on your part.  I've not had a SINGLE complaint from landowners about vehicles stacked there.  In fact the opposite, they have all (but one) been very cooperative, had the land fixed and thanked me.

All I'm hearing is from a small number of self elected policemen on this forum who have their own agenda on how other people should have fun in SL.  Chill out and mind your own business.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Oh, my, you are so thick, it is absolutely unbelievable.

Let's go through the points one by one:

1.: The landowner's problem?!? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the pile-ups are your problem. And when you have time to admire your 'work', you have time to remove the junk and to apologize for ruining their enjoyment of SL.

2.: I hate it. And these bullets get stuck as well. Ahh, more litter...

3.: It isn't fun. and the sooner it stops, the better it is.

4.: You did create the problem. If I crash into the neighbors front garden, I cannot excuse myself by claiming the road is buggy, I have to make sure, I put the right tyres on my car, tyres suitable for the weather, road conditions and season. If I don't, I'm fully responsible for any damage caused by failing to follow these rules. In your case it means, you have to change the way your vehicles behave. Regard a bug as a change in road conditions and adapt your vehicles accordingly. It is your duty to make your vehicles roadworthy.

5.: No, YOU are THE problem. A landowner/tenant has the right to set the parcel options as they think it suits themselves best. That's why they are paying rent/tier and not you. Your vehicles have to stay off their land, UNLESS you have EXPLICIT permission to enter the land.

6.: Do me a favor, stop telling fairytales. It seems you still live in lala-land, where everything just works to your imagination. Sorry to shatter your dreams, but it is time to accept the reality and to accept responsibility for your actions.

In other words:

                Fix your damn cars!

                   And do it now!

             It is your responsibility.

                  And yours only!

 

[AnnMarie Otoole]

1. It must be a landowner problem.  They set their land to no-entry and it didn't work.  Doen't bother me if they allow that to continue.  Its THEIR land.  Don't cry on MY shoulder if it is not working.

2. Male Bovine Excrement.  Get your facts straight.  The missiles are set to Temporary, even IF they enter no-entry, no-script land the longest they can survivie is 60 seconds.

3. Who elected you to the fun police to decide what is fun and what is not?

4. Get real, this is Second Life, it is a game.  Comparison to the liabilities of RL vehicles is meaningless.

5. A landowner/tenant has the right to set the parcel options as they think it suits themselves best. That's why they are paying rent/tier and not you. THANK YOU, EACTLY MY POINT they DO have the right to set the parcel options as they think suits temselves.  If you don't want vehicles entering, set it to NO-ENTRY.  Doesn't get any simpler than that.

6. Lindens set the rules, not YOU.  Read the TOS.  If you don't like the rules we live by, then petition to get them changes.

But I'm totally enjoying the debate, who's next .

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Either you are a troll, hell bend on making road & land use as miserable as possible for everyone, or you are dumber than I could imagine in my wildest dreams. There is absolutely no other explanation possible, seeing your answers.

Now to your answers point by point:

1.: It is YOUR problem. And your problem alone. If you would keep your vehicles on the road, then this problem simply wouldn't exist.
But it seems, that you are either too lazy or too dumb to fix the scripts in your vehicles.

2.: If I hadn't found these things by the roadside, I would not mention it. Besides, if I want to catch a bullet, I go into
a weapon enabled sandbox. I expect the public roads to be a save area.

3.: I don't see me as 'fun police', I see the responses in this and the other thread in the people forum.
and these responses clearly show me, residents are fed up with your junk littering the landscape.

4.: I'm not comparing liabilities, I'm comparing responsibilities. It's as simple as that. Too complicated to understand?
If I release something into the environment, no matter if it is in real life or in a virtual environment like SL, I am responsible,
that it doesn't have negative effects on that environment. And it is the same for you and your vehicles.
Shouldn't be that hard to understand? Or is it?

5.: And again you seem to be unable to grasp the issue here. It is your junk, that creates the problems here,
the landowners surely didn't invite you to leave your junk there. Keeping your vehicles ON the road would solve that problem immediately.

6.: I don't make the rules, that is true, however you seem to stretch the rules as far as possible to make everyone's road use as miserable as possible, instead of being a good neighbor by trying to keep the impact on the environment as low as possible.

And a reminder: Your vehicles have to adapt to the environment. Noone else, including Linden Lab has to change anything to accommodate your defective vehicles. YOU have to fix the scripts. YOU alone. Noone else.

Final question: Have you ever learned in your life to take personal responsibility for your actions?

 

[Yevad Doobie]

Is this old chestnut still rumbling on?  Hmmm...and we all thought this had been dealt with a couple of years ago, back when residents were able to attend the LDPW open office meeting and these vehicles were discussed at length.  Which ever side you stand on this discussion, LL are well aware of AnnMaries project and have been for a number of years.  They could have pulled the plug a long time ago, but they didn't...because it doesn't violate TOS or the community guidelines.

 

Yes, there are bugs.  Yes, there will always be bugs.  If people find this difficult to accept, then why do they spend time in a dynamic virtual environment?  I have spoken to AnnMarie on this subject many many times, and her vehicles are far cleverer than most people in this discussion appreciate.  AnnMarie has more experience in the programming field than anyone I have ever met in SL, so I am sure she knows what she is doing.

 

At the end of the day, SL is a constantly changing thing.  It offers many things to many people, but nothing ever stays the same.  If LL stopped updating the grid today, then the bugs would be fixed after a while and people could find other things to moan about, like maybe yellow giant rabbits, or floating castles, or what ever else they can find that other people enjoy but they don't understand.  Personally, I feel the unrealistic floating structures that litter the skies are an eyesore and a hazard to flying...but I don't kick up a stink because we all have to live together, we all like different things.  I am sure there are plenty of things I have done in the past that others wouldn't understand, just like I don't understand what floats other peoples boats (or castles!).

 

As for those that keep making claims about TOS and the community guidelines, please take the time to read ths page: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Automated_Mainland_Vehicle_Guidelines  Naturally, it doesn't state any of the things we have been told in the past unofficially, but I am sure ML would be delighted to clarify any concerns residents have, as he always has done.

 

Oh...and this page for anyone who feels like doing something positive to help everyone who uses the routes:  https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Route_problem_guide

 

 

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Yevad Doobie wrote: "Yes, there are bugs.  Yes, there will always be bugs."
Yes, bugs do occur and need to be fixed, however, if a bug somewhere else affects the operation of an item,
then the programming of the item needs to be changed to accommodate the environment and its bugs.

Since you mention the Automated Vehicle Guidelines, I took a look and from that, I think AnnMarie's vehicles violate
section 3 & 6 of the Community Standards.

3.: Assault
Most areas in Second Life are identified as Safe. Assault in Second Life means: shooting, pushing, or shoving another Resident in a Safe Area (see Global Standards below); creating or using scripted objects which singularly or persistently target another Resident in a manner which prevents their enjoyment of Second Life.

Why? The tanks shoot at passing residents and vehicles, her vehicles are not phantom, so anyone standing in the way is pushed around, pushed aside, shoved and run over.

6.: Disturbing the Peace
Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. Disrupting scheduled events, repeated transmission of undesired advertising content, the use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace

Why? Repetitive sounds -> the Ice cream truck 'music' and the littering of the landscape.
The music isn't that bad as it reaches only a few meters, but the littering problem is what irks many residents.

In my view, all of these problems can be fixed by fixing the vehicles ONLY, however AnnMarie tries to shift the blame and
flatly refuses to take responsibility for her junk. Pleading with her via IM and publicly via the forum hasn't achieved anything.


(Note: Before anyone gets a false impression, I don't have a problem with automated vehicles, au contraire,
the more the merrier. What I do have a problem with is being pushed around or seeing inoperable vehicles littering the
landscape at almost every region border and numerous other places.)

 

[Yevad Doobie]

Selective reading:  a talent which populates forums all around the world.  Jadeclaw, why quote if you clearly haven't read the the entire page?  I won't grace you with a defence to your comments regarding my post, my defence is in the page that you selectively read.  There are also answers to your comments throughout this thread, I see no point in going around and around in circles.

 

File an AR if you feel that suits.  Join in on the JIRA site regarding bugs which affect these vehicles, that is the most appropriate place I would say.  This forum?  Well...it's for hot air, like all forums.  As a friend once said to me:  those who talk about it, usually don't do anything about it.  Those who do something about it, usually don't talk about it, they just get on with it.

 

Do something constructive!  Myself, AnnMarie and scores of others have done a huge amount of work to have the protected routes fixed, a project that went on for years and benefitted all users of the routes.  AnnMarie was one of the most prolific ticket makers (if not the), thanks to defects found by her vehicles.  Each and every time someone enjoys a long journey along the routes, there are scores of people who deserve a silent thanks for making the routes what they are today, none more so than AnnMarie.  Hundreds and hundreds of tickets were produced by a whole group of people, while people were happily sitting and blowing hot air on forums, contributing nothing constructive...and continue to do so it seems.  None want praise, all want decent routes!

 

As for the concept of the vehicles....well, they aren't my cup of tea really.  I do know this for a fact though:  there are plenty of disabled SL residents that enjoy automated vehicles, because they have difficulty with sight, motor control, arthritus etc etc and struggle to control most SL vehicles.  The automated vehicles give them a chance to get around without having to ask a friend for help.  For me, it is reasons like this which make me approve of them, all types.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Perrie Juran wrote: "Vehicle use on Mainland Roads should be limited to vehicles under direct controlled (i.e., manned or womanned)."

I do have to disagree here. Vehicles from other operators rarely get stuck. [...]

 

---

Yeah, I need to say something here. Automated vehicles have been a cherished feature of SL for a very long time. I very distinctly recall that riding the Luna trolley from Ahern was key to my staying in SL during my very first days. (Back then, newbies rezzed at Welcome Centers.) That's a Linden vehicle, but there have long been similarly compelling private automated vehicles, too. For example, I would not be willing to give up Qu Qi's excellent ANWR Strait Tug Tour between Cecropia on the Atoll and Purple on Sansara, nor his VRC Ferry running between the Tuliptree and Bhaga SLRR terminals, stopping at Hyles InfoHub. (Lest there be any confusion, Qu Qi is not me; he was scripting long before I got to SL.) And, already mentioned, there are the successful private automated trains on the SLRR as well as the Yavascript tours.

[ETA: Re-reading this, I realize that sentence somehow failed to mention Kitto Flora's superb ONSR and GSLR vehicles. There are many others I've enjoyed over the years--the little rowboat tour that (used to?) circumnavigate the Atoll comes to mind--really, many talented residents have shown a lot of creativity, patience, and dedication with these autonomous vehicles, and I've gotten a lot of fun from them.]

Some of us Zindra folks wanted to start a ferry service to add a little life to the (quite nice) waterfront along the river and west coast of that continent, with scheduled stops at the Mosh "Port of Kama City," the Gilda/Oritz InfoHub, and various other highlights of Zindra's extensive public builds. The problem was that the water and road network is all (with a tiny exception) set No Object Entry. Thinking this an oversight, I emailed one of the Lindens then in charge of Adult content issues (not Blondin, for those with long memories, but I don't want to name who it was here), asking if this could be fixed.

I got an email response: Object Entry was intentionally disabled on Zindra public lands and water to avoid the problems with AnnMarie's vehicles specifically.

That's fine; I have more than enough other things to keep me busy in Second Life, and my interest in Zindra has waned over time. (Yeah, I might have kept that interest if I had a Zindra ferry service to keep running, but meh: I've plenty of other stuff to do). And it's not as if a ferry would have made a massive difference to Zindra's appeal. So no great loss.

The point is that there's an unintended consequence of this controversy: A whole continent where a certain class of content is disabled by design. You're all free to decide if the fault lies with the content or the controversy, but there you have it.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote: "Vehicle use on Mainland Roads should be limited to vehicles under direct controlled (i.e., manned or womanned)."

I do have to disagree here. Vehicles from other operators rarely get stuck. [...]

 

---

Yeah, I need to say something here. Automated vehicles have been a cherished feature of SL for a very long time. I very distinctly recall that riding the Luna trolley from Ahern was key to my staying in SL during my very first days. (Back then, newbies rezzed at Welcome Centers.) That's a Linden vehicle, but there have long been similarly compelling private automated vehicles, too. For example, I would not be willing to give up Qu Qi's excellent ANWR Strait

Tug Tour

between Cecropia on the Atoll and Purple on Sansara, nor his

VRC Ferry

running between the Tuliptree and Bhaga SLRR terminals, stopping at Hyles InfoHub. (Lest there be any confusion, Qu Qi is

not

me; he was scripting long before I got to SL.) And, already mentioned, there are the successful private automated trains on the SLRR as well as the Yavascript tours.

Some of us Zindra folks wanted to start a ferry service to add a little life to the (quite nice) waterfront along the river and west coast of that continent, with scheduled stops at the Mosh "Port of Kama City," the Gilda/Oritz InfoHub, and various other highlights of Zindra's extensive public builds. The problem was that the water and road network is all (with a tiny exception) set No Object Entry. Thinking this an oversight, I emailed one of the Lindens then in charge of Adult content issues (not Blondin, for those with long memories, but I don't want to name who it was here), asking if this could be fixed.

I got an email response: Object Entry was intentionally disabled on Zindra public lands and water

to avoid the problems with AnnMarie's vehicles specifically.

That's fine; I have more than enough other things to keep me busy in Second Life, and my interest in Zindra has waned over time. (Yeah, I might have kept that interest if I had a Zindra ferry service to keep running, but meh: I've plenty of other stuff to do). And it's not as if a ferry would have made a massive difference to Zindra's appeal. So no great loss.

The point is that there's an unintended consequence of this controversy: A whole continent where a certain class of content is disabled by design. You're all free to decide if the fault lies with the

content

or the

controversy

, but there you have it.

---

I understand the unintended consequence.  I don't know if there is a win - win solution for everyone because peoples interests can be in conflict. 

Ann wants to run her vehicles.  I don't want them littering my property.  It would only take me a few seconds to clean them off my property if they got stuck there which is no big deal BUT until I get there it renders my parcel unsightly and unenjoyable.

I know my solution is an extreme.

Really, my point is that the owner of an object needs to take responsibility for their object.

[Jewel Laurasia]

 

 

 

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Thank you for confirming my point. This is the type of litter, that simply needs to be stopped.
And it is AnnMarie's duty to stop it.

Here are three more examples:
1.:  Why should landowners put up with that?

 

2.: Seriously? This parcel in Sorbet owned by university is completely surrounded by water, there is no road in sight:

 

3.: And last but not least, another masterpiece:

Really? Why should anyone put up with this?
Is there any good reason, why this is in any form acceptable?

 

 

[Raven Luna]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Some of us Zindra folks wanted to start a ferry service to add a little life to the (quite nice) waterfront along the river and west coast of that continent, with scheduled stops at the Mosh "Port of Kama City," the Gilda/Oritz InfoHub, and various other highlights of Zindra's extensive public builds. The problem was that the water and road network is all (with a tiny exception) set No Object Entry. Thinking this an oversight, I emailed one of the Lindens then in charge of Adult content issues (not Blondin, for those with long memories, but I don't want to name who it was here), asking if this could be fixed.

I got an email response: Object Entry was intentionally disabled on Zindra public lands and water

to avoid the problems with AnnMarie's vehicles specifically.

That's fine; I have more than enough other things to keep me busy in Second Life, and my interest in Zindra has waned over time. (Yeah, I might have kept that interest if I had a Zindra ferry service to keep running, but meh: I've plenty of other stuff to do). And it's not as if a ferry would have made a massive difference to Zindra's appeal. So no great loss.

---

I understand the unintended consequence.  I don't know if there is a win - win solution for everyone because peoples interests can be in conflict. 

Ann wants to run her vehicles.  I don't want them littering my property.  It would only take me a few seconds to clean them off my property if they got stuck there which is no big deal BUT until I get there it renders my parcel unsightly and unenjoyable.

I know my solution is an extreme.

Really, my point is that the owner of an object needs to take responsibility for their object.

---

... and I agree with both of you. The problem is that - no, Qie, it's NOT fine that you had to give up a ferry service because inadequate scripting on the part of ONE resident caused an entire continent to be affected. I guess this is where it "is my business." It is also the business of every resident affected by this.  It is pretty funny though, that when poor scripters get called out on their badly behaving objects, they resort to the "it's only a game!" and "stop griping about ME having fun!" rhetoric. I always have to laugh at that.

So, for everyone's entertainment, I am posting a link to a Yavascript Pod Tours video, taken on the lovely Sansara Continent. Now THIS is the best scripting I have ever seen. Graceful, navigates well, stays on its side of the road. It is phantom and also handles region crossings with ease. Perfect. At the 6:25 mark, the pod encounters one of AnnMarie's ice cream trucks (stuck on the opposite side of the road) and, right after that, one of her other vehicles (stuck at the region crossing).

I have yet to see one of these pods get permanently stuck. And if one does, it derezzes.

So, since I don't believe in complaining without offering a solution to the problem, how about this - contact the owner of the Yavascript vehicles, buy his/her script, and put that into the vehicles that are getting stuck all over SL. Problem solved. :-) And after that happens, we can petition LL and tell them the "no entry" issue has been solved and Zindra can be opened once again.

Matter of fact, why can't the Yavascript Pod be the standard for automated travel in SL. Clearly this person got it right.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Wow, after 2 years  LL has yet to do anything about this? I personally haven't encountered one of these magnificent vehicles. I wander Linden Land quite a bit, must be lucky i guess..

I wonder what dirt she has on whom to keep her so protected...

[Yevad Doobie]

Two different types of vehicle tend to work n different ways and encounter different problems.  The Yava pods do not self navigate, so you can't expect AnnMaries to behave the same.  You are comparing apples and oranges...

[Jewel Laurasia]

Yevad is correct.

 

I do think the pod goes rather fast though, especially if you're trying to sightsee and zipping from sim to sim before you rez it all.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Nice Video. Just when the pod turns left into the road, you'll see one of AnnMarie's Bugattis hänging in free air
in the top left corner of the video.

Raven Luna wrote: "Matter of fact, why can't the Yavascript Pod be the standard for automated travel in SL. Clearly this person got it right."

It should be. According to Yavanna, the operator of the pods, a lot of the programming went into the pods just for error correction/error trapping.
( We had a nice conversation one day, when she popped into the pod I was on, as it showed an anomaly on her control system).

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: "I wonder what dirt she has on whom to keep her so protected..."
That's what I'm wondering about as well. Normally any other resident producing that amount of litter would have been kicked out already.

Yevad Doobie wrote: "The Yava pods do not self navigate, so you can't expect AnnMaries to behave the same.  You are comparing apples and oranges..."
But we can expect AnnMarie's vehicles to behave better. Her cars follow (according to her) the Linden land used for the roads.
That this is an inherently bad idea, is immediately visible, when you turn on 'Parcel Borders' in the viewer.
A better idea would be using the road prims to navigate, as that would reduce the possibility of running into the parcels on the side of the road.
However, mapping out the road system on the mainland grid would be the best solution, just like the SatNav-makers do it in RL.
And then use that data to keep the vehicle on the road. That would solve most of the littering problem right away.
The public road system in SL is one of the constants, that almost never changes. Unlike real life. That's why a waypoint
controlled vehicle is still the best and most reliable solution for automated travel on the grid. And when done properly,
random travel would still be possible.

[Qie Niangao]

Yavanna's pods perform amazingly well, even given the advantage of using a waypoint system. I use global coordinate waypoints to push phantom, non-physical prims around transit corridors to collect traffic data for map displays, and honestly, about every half-dozen sim updates, some new thing goes silly and I have to tweak my sim-crossing waypoints to keep them on track. Either Yavanna's script deals better with such anomalies (scratches head) or she's a very patient person indeed.

If I were in AnnMarie's shoes, I think the first thing I'd change is to make the vehicles self-destruct (after sending some debug status) as soon as they detect they're off Linden land, instead of trying to right themselves and find a road. Something has already gone wrong at that point -- something that should be fixed in the nav algorithm, even if it means patching around a sim bug.

[AnnMarie Otoole]

Thanks Qui.  Some history.  Scripting is my addiction.  I've been programming computers for over 50 years.  I started on UNIVAC III in 1959.  Nearly all assembly language on mini and micro computers.

When I started this project as a scripting challenge 5 years ago waypoint programs were already in existance and all it required was massive patience in recording routes.  My challenge was to make a self navigating vehicle that you released and it needed no support, a kind of a web crawler that explores every nook and cranny of connected Linden land.  The goal included not using laggy sensors.  Back then there were no paved roads so digitally mapping the perimeter of the route and calculating a center line was the only approach.

I also wanted realistic vehicles (physical) that could slide down slopes, have problems going up hill, have inertia, bounce off hazards, crash into other vehicles realistically and even roll over at times.  In the early days there were hundreds of road errors that I reported to Michael Linden.  He would respond within 24 hours and make repairs.  I'm perhaps the only person in SL that found there was a cap of 1024 on trouble tickets and no way to delete old ones.  They had to go into the data base manually and remove 500 early ones to make space for me.

Although the calculations and processing are fairly straight forward, they are intensive.  While you have complete control over a non-physical waypoint object, physical objects have a mind of their own, driven by the physical simulator in SL which runs independently from my script.  So  the big problem is to update the steering, accelerating and braking in time to correct for changes in terrain and path.  It took 2 years of experimenting and streamlining the script to get the updates fast enough to keep vehicles on the road.  The big breakthrough in optimizing the script was going to incremental mapping.  Instead of mapping the whole road I switched to incrementally tracking the left and right perimeters instead of recreating them every cycle.  The fact that no one else has been able to do this is significant.

In complex terrain and if there is any lag, the updates are not always fast enough to keep up with the physics engine and vehciles can run off the road before the script can see it.  Necessarily the recovery from accidents is very good so long as scripts are enabled.  Fortunately adjacent land with no-script setting nearly always had no-entry so the physics engine bounced off the land boundary and kept them on the road.  A bug started in SL about 9 months(?) ago where no-entry frequently fails and since they are frequently no-script, the vehicles are immobilized instantly and can't even self destruct.

I demonstrated the bug to Maestro Linden on how easy it was to violate the object no-entry land setting.  Although I can do it on just about any land the parameters that set the ease of entry are obscure and vary from a success rate as low as 1 in 4 on problem land to about 1 in 15,000 on "normal" land.  Despite extensive testing I've not been able to identify what the controlling factors are although I've identified what script functions are needed to violate it.

Since I am the only person suffering the consequences of this bug, Linden Labs are not going to invest the time to track down the source.  At first I started to compile a list of problem land parcels and visit them daily to remove stranded vehicles.  At the same time I advised the land owners of the bug in their land.  The problem with this approach is there was no incentive for the land owner to fix it if there were no stuck vehicles and even if they did report it, the Linden responder could find nothinng wrong.  A simple sim restart does not fix it.

Spending over an hour a day visiting about 75 trouble spots was not achieving any solution.  I decided to leave stacked vehicles so the land owners would appreciate the problem and get it fixed.  That has been very successful, I'm down to about 15 trouble spots now.  So far all but one landowner have appreciated the bug report and either had it fixed or turned on scripts to fix it.  Those that remain eyesores are landowners who have abandoned SL or only log in on rare occasions.

On some abandoned lots I built an invisible barrier that the vehicles bounce off and avoid entry.  I could do that because I had plenty of prims already on the land so I stole vehicle prims and built them into protective barriers.  It works fairly well and since the landowners are absent they don't object.  However the time involved was too much and the problem parcels are not static so as one site "recovers" another will crop up over a period of months.

I'm in contact with the AR department and they are well aware that the land encroachments are the result of a Linden bug.  They will not reveal or discuss how many ARs they receive, or from whom or where.  Issuing warnings or suspensions is useless due to their own rules that prevent them revealing WHERE the infraction took place.  Punishment achieves nothing if the problem cannot be corrected.

 

[Jewel Laurasia]

I don't care if you invented the internet. Stop rezzing vehicles on the roads if they don't behave properly and create problems. It's really that effing simple.

[Jewel Laurasia]

Building in the way? No problem! Just drive right over it!

 

 

[Coby Foden]

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AnnMarie Otoole wrote:

 

The vehicles do just fine.

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We're doing just fine... aren't we? :matte-motes-whistle:

Why the land owners don't clear these traps which are ruining OUR fun? :smileysurprised:

:smileytongue: