Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Innula Zenovka]

Furthermore, when I asked the Office of the Information Commissioner if they would intervene to protect my personal data from RedZone, they regrefully informed me that they didn't have jurisdiction since neither LL nor RedZone had legal presences in the EU.

[Gavin Hird]

---

kiramanell wrote:

---

According to Council Directive 2002/38/EC, non-EU operators are required to register for VAT purposes

only

when their business involves sales to final consumers. As the Directive says, "This allows them to identify themselves

for EU tax purposes

in a single European Member State. Non-EU businesses are able to register with a tax authority in a Member State of their choosing. They are required to charge VAT to non-business customers in the EU according to the standard tax rate in the Member State where the customer lives.

So, just for clarity, LL having to levy VAT, in no way whatsoever, constitutes LL being established in an EU Member State (with all the possible ramifications thereof).

---

The whole subject is rather complicated but the "Directive of on electronic commerce" which is applicable to the EU member states, have been incorporated in national legislation for a number of member states to transpose the directory to include non-EU states when they target services to their territory. I believe this was applied when Apple were forced to change the terms of the iCloud service in EU.  By registering as a non-EU operator for VAT purposes, you have clearly stated you target EU countries for marketing to consumers inside those countries (otherwise the registration would be pointless.)  

Also WP 179 discusses data privacy issues also for non-member states and the term "processor" seems to have since been extended to include also applications installed on equipment (PC, mobile device) inside a EU member state. There is a directive specific to the subject of mobile apps being worked on that is not effective yet.  Cookie collection is also discussed and there is an EU directive on this that has gone in effect this spring. 

[Gavin Hird]

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

Furthermore, when I asked the Office of the Information Commissioner if they would intervene to protect my personal data from RedZone, they regrefully informed me that they didn't have jurisdiction since neither LL nor RedZone had legal presences in the EU.

---

I suppose it depends on the timing you asked because if I recall correctly LL had a UK subsidiary at the time they started the changes to the adult policy and used RedZone for processing.  There were UK employees participating in many of the open office meetings on the subject at the beginning. 

[irihapeti]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

---

I'll just say that I was making a point, not neccessarily to what you were saying, but what is commonly the view of many people that somehow profits are evil. There a vast amount of reasons why profits, in a free market, are beneficial to all.

Of course, if I understand your knowledge of the matter, I likely would not have responded as I did. I was obviously assuming when I had no reason to.

---

is all good. We just chatting so is ok

is a saying by my own people (not ancient tho). If take a fence then dont be surprised if someone chucks a post at you

jejejeje (:

+

about the profit is evil thing. I dont get that either when I hear it

even Karl Marx never dispute profit. In that respect Marx had lots in common with Locke philosophically. They both argue that the profit/reward goes to whoever do the work

where they depart is on ownership of the means of producing that profit. But they in agreement for the need for profit. Else neither the individual (Locke) or commune (Marx) can or will prosper without it. That will only be a state of subsistence without it

in recent times the Subsistence State is getting more attention tho. But is mostly driven by practical concerns like population growth and the rate of consumption of resources than on any widespread deep philosophical grounds. Altho is some deep green thinkers who can make some good philosophical arguments for this

+

of the more modern philosophers I personally lean more towards Rawls than say Kant. But I find some things that Kant argues quite interesting. So I like to think about that as well

 

[Tanita Blackburn]

Ebbe I hope you read Macklin Deckard's original comment because I couldn't agree more to this ! Straight to the point. I will not migrate to any new grid - I will stick with 1.0 as long as it is fun and my business runs stable and after that I am done with Linden Lab.

 

Migrating ? Investing all that money again ? tens of thousands of $US ? - Maybe only to find out after a year or two that 2.0 is not working out and they shut it down ? Migrating back to 1.0 after that - or to 3.0 ? - It was you who said in your original posting they you cannot say wether or not you will shut down the old or the new grid or keeping them both or what the future will bring ...

Not very promising, is it ? Defintely not enough ! - Ebbe, you asked a few times your suggestive question what we would like better - Linden Lab coming up with a new grid or someone else ? Trying to make us believe it can only be bad if someone else would do it. The answer is - someone else would be very welcome ! - The only reason why me and many others are still here is because there IS nobody else.

 

---------------------

 

Macklin Deckard wrote:

> So you think SL can continue forever and still be competitive enought to matter in the future?

Yes, IF LL does the following and earns trust / makes changes. I've been here 9 years+ and my trust for LL and its revolving door CEO's is nearly nonexistant.

LL has a track record of overpromising and underdelivering, as well as jumping on the latest fad / shiny / company groupthink. Examples.

 

The Tao of the Lindens as illustrated by Philip Linden making decisions take ages for consensus rather than management made decisions.

Refusing to actively fight griefers for YEARS until grid crashing became a fad and started costing LL money. Some Lindens were actively friends with members of various groups causing issues with SL, others had a near-religious sense of hands-off anarchy they projected on the world due to lack of action.

The corporate phase where they were your customer (like content creators will be in 2.0) and residents were to be just eyeballs for the corps...that lasted until the hype died and the corps moved on to the next big thing. I believe LL even developed a walled-garden version of SL for internal corp use...how's that one selling for ya now?

The OS phase, where a few rabid open source Lindens and their followers inworld managed to get the client open sourced...some good, much bad from this, including the drama that lead up to banning Emerald client.

LL has also shown a track-record of dishonesty and playing favorites. Examples:

 

Back when sims increased in price, certain land barons 'discovered' this and that purchases would be grandfathered at the old price... It was only when it leaked to the general publicthat the offer was extended to all sim owners. So as a resident I am supposed to feel good about 'content creators as your customers?'

The homestead fiasco. People were told there would be no price increases, then two weeks later, price increase. Countless homesteads closed after that and there were lots of bad feelings towards the lab.

And a track record of releasing broken and incomplete shineys, then rushing to the next project and denying bugs or promising fixes that never come or come years later. Examples:

 

Mesh rolled out such that creators needed to include 3-5 sizes for each clothing item. Only grudgingly, much, much later were additional AV bones added, even though they were mentioned in the initial descriptions of mesh implementation and got somehow dropped during development.

Sculpts rolled out with broken uploads. Sculpties worked find in Beta, in RELEASE, they were somehow broken and lossless sculpt files uploaded fine, lossy uploaded jagged and broken (I may have the types reversed, graphic artist I am not). Sculpted gears I had used in beta suddenly were jagged and had to be reuploaded and builds changed at release. LL's Devs at the time denied there was a problem over and over...it was somehow OUR fault as builders. Then when the next patch came out, they were magically right again. Stealth fixed to save face?

These are what I remember off the top of my head, I am sure others could add more. Now you see why folks keep saying they don't trust you or the Lab not to screw residents in favor of content creators? Or to release a SL 2.0 that is just as broken/buggy/incomplete as the current one or possibly even worse? You really need to work on resident perceptions....of course content creators are going to fawn all over you and new SL2.0, you just declared them to be the new world's gods, but what about the rest of us?

 

 

Now, How could SL 1.0 be future-proofed?

Get the Lindens back inworld - I remember the Linden Village area, inworld meetings, Lindens just hanging around just talking to passers by. I haven't seen a Linden since M was CEO and their inworld presence got cut back. It was reassuring to have staff inworld...proof they used the product they created.

Ditch the TPV's - Figure out the best features of the various TPV's and implement them in YOUR client and OPTIMIZE, OPTIMIZE, OPTIMIZE. There is no reason residents shound need a TPV to get MORE features, higher FPS AND less crashes than the official client. Third party software should not hold back releases so they can implement features. If you really feel you need TPV's, release new code even if it breaks their browsers and let them catch up. I use firestorm, but losing it would be a small price to pay for faster releases (not that we have to worry about that, SL1.0 being in maintenance mode and all).

Incremental Graphics and Infrastructure Upgrades - To use MMO's for an example as they are the closest thing to SL, you could redo the graphics and optimize to fix the dated looks.. You could optimize the back end for current standards on a regular basis. Instead you decided to build a product to compete with your flagship product. This did NOT fill me with any degree of confidence or any great desire to remain a premium or use the Lindex.

 

If you did all the above, ESPECIALLY the Incremental upgrade of graphics and infrastructure, with gradual depreciation of things that just cannot be carried forward, I see no need for a 2.0 SL. We could get there by evolution rather than revolution.

 

> We are going to do our best to make it smooth, but if we have to make a crappy product with crazy complexity and poor user experience to preserve some very specific content compatability we don't want to cause those problems.

Make it smooth, I really doubt you can, based on past rollouts of new features. If you need to depreciate various pieces of older content, do it and explain why. Don't depreciate the entire world, which is what you are doing. Rewrite what you have to current standards. I'd rather lose a fraction of my inventory rather than 9+ years of collecting, outfits, and memories...and possibly my AV name.

 

> A lot of what you have will be possible to move across and more specifics will come through over time.

You should not have announced this until you have specifics. First it was no compatibility, maybe, now its a lot of compatibility. Make up your minds. It appears you announced early, shooting for some kind of PR boost, but all the vagueness and 'we can't answer that now' has just destabilized things for many.

Quite frankly, and this is strictly me speaking for me, I will be staying with SL 1.0 until you pull the plug, then I will find another home that does not involve giving money to LL. I have NO desire to have to rebuild my VR life and possessions in a 'like SL, only better' SL 2.0, not with LL's track record.

[irihapeti]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

I was talking about EULAs, in which case, what the ToS allows for or not is inconsequential.  Say I bought a texture with a EULA which restricts its use to only within SL... should the new platform be named anything else, regardless of whether or not its a LL product, uploading that texture there would be a violation of the EULA to which I agreed.  LL, as per the ToS, can do whatever they wish with such content... I, on the other hand, having agreed to much more restrictive terms, could not.

I don't necessarily believe that LL will name the new platform Second Life, I'm simply acknowledging the advantage of them doing so for those of us who wish to live up to the licenses to which we've already agreed.

...Dres

---

is a very good point this

it do raise tho what would happen if LL changed the name of the existing SL to something else. Am not sure that would invalidate the EULA

it might tho. but I think the EULA owner would have to show that was something else in addition to the name change (in this case) that impacts them adversely

 

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Zena Zemlja wrote:

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Phoebe Avro wrote:

The viewer will be all and end all

---

I disagree, I survived for years on the official viewer simply because I was intrigued by SL and it was the only option there was at the time.  Of course, the difference now is that I know how much functionality that TPVs can provide and would surely be disappointed by any less.  But that in itself wouldn't be a deal breaker.

...Dres

---

It would be a huge dealbreaker to me, as I totally hated the new viewer sl forced upon us a few years ago, and I might have left if there would not have been Phoenix. I seriously think that the tpv's helped sl survive when they created one of their worst viewers ever. 

---

I completely agree with you about the fiasco which was V2.  I'm sure that, had I not already been using a TPV, having that mess forced upon me would have convinced me to start doing just that.  But, I'm also sure that, should no such options had been made available to me, I would have suffered through it in order to remain in SL.  The viewer is certainly important, but it's not, as you said, the be all and end all.

...Dres

---

It was actually Phoebe who said it, but I agreed with her and I still do. I understand it would not be a dealbreaker for you, but it would be for me. 

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

I wanted to participate in this viewer discussion so i dared to log in today via the last version of the official viewer. For the first time after 2 or 3 years .. at that time i wanted to use it but didnt succed to stay in longer than a few minutes.. it drove me crazy..

Now i am still in it as i write in order to study it but i cant promiss i will stay too long because .. it drives me crazy ..

Am I blind or there is no setting where i can tell my head or at least my eyes to no longer follow the mouse? Typical noob question, i know but in this viewer i am noob and in FS i never had this problem.

Am I stupid or is this a bug or.. is this the way it was conceived that in order to wear a new hair i must first detach the old otherwise the function wear acts like add ? But only by attachments ..

Am I stupid or are they stupid to not save different login names and passwords although save password is checked and aso the option multiple viewers ? Each time i try it with an alt i must type again the login data and when i go back to my main avatar i must type it again coz it keeps only the last one and doesnt make a list to chose from like "normal" viewers ..

Ah.. and it looks like each alt must set up his viewer preferences coz they are not taken from the avatar that was loged in before..

Am I blind or you cant search inventory by creator name ? Not to mention what not evn FS has but would be needed : search by permissions

Am I blind or the button for notifications can not be moved at the bottom of the screen?

I found the "set default upload permissions" but i cant find a place where i can set default permissions for objects i create. Am I blind or .. is it so?

Does it really have so little options in Prefernces or am i blind and dont see something on which i could click to get more ?

Is it normal that it loads the inventory again whenever i log in , which in my case , by over 300k items takes ages ?

And .. really no copy/paste function for object size and rotation values ?

I thought i can use it at least for whenever i wear some fitted mesh because the last FS, that can deal with this takes just too much of my 8 GB of RAM and i need RAM elsewhere. The official viewer takes less.. BUT put a mesh body on and try to edit the shape behind it .. your whole body VIBRATES by each change ..

Please tell me that im blind or stupid .. or both and these things are not really meant to be so in the "official SL viewer , last version". Because if its really meant so , how can anybody use it ?

 

---

Your message reads like a freakin horror movie...  brave you, to go in world in the original viewer! I am quite certain that it makes most noobs leave after a few days, unless someone tells them about tpv which may make them decide to stay after all. 

[Tanita Blackburn]

You said earlier: "We will continue to invest in SL and keep improving and have no plans for any shutdown."

--------

sounds nice but who is supposed to run it ? You left only a small team to monitor things in 1.0 while most Linden's seem to be working on 2.0 now. Bug fixing for example seems not to be of any interest for you anymore. For example:

 

That well known bug causing land owners receiving an error message on their very own land saying "rezing is not possible because the owner of the land does not allow it". Only a sim restart can solve this issue for a short time before the same happens again. According to concierges pretty much every region has been infected with this and for about two months now - whenever beeing asked how long it will take to finally fix this - the given answer is: "Our engineers are working on this and we hope to find a solution soon. Please be patient in the meantime."

 

Two months to fix a bug ? What if search should go down ? Or teleports keep failing ? Who will be there to fix it if not even this can be fixed in a timely fashion ?

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Most, but not all, options available in Firestorm's Preferences menu are also available in the official viewer through the debug menu.  Firestorm simply makes it easier to access those features.  Obviously, LL has chosen not to make them as readily available.

I can only imagine that this is because they wish to keep their viewer as uncomplicated as possible... therefore, only supplying us with that which they believe to be most important to the common user.  I don't necessarily blame them for doing so.

The Firestorm team has classes where people can learn how to deal with the complexity of their viewer.  LL will never do this, therefore, they must dumb down their viewer (so to speak).  And, lets face it... even their less optional, dumbed down viewer is very complicated in itself.

LL will never release a viewer as feature-rich as Firestorm, if only because they simply won't allocate the manpower needed to provide the necessary user support for it.

...Dres

---

As a non tech person, I have to disagree with you on this. Firestorm is way easier to use for noobs than the original viewer. The classes Firestorm runs are an extra service that in my opinion would be much more necessary for the original viewer. The original viewer just totally freaks me out. It's boring and it's frustrating, and I frankly cannot see why LL would deliberately dumb down their viewer to bore and frustrate us, I have no clue about why they are doing what they are doing, but I know it does not work. They need to get of their high horses and learn from the tpv's. 

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

---

Phoebe Avro wrote:

The viewer will be all and end all, if its not 100% right and LL should not be asking us whats great agout TPV's they should be testing them out!

Put it this way if another company started a new fantastic world next week dont you think LL staff would go look see what they had and check out the viewer if any? so why dont they know whats the alternative viewers offer i would want to know?

one word "arrogance"

---

Until Ebbe got here, sounds like the went even allow in world for a while, so wern't using any viewers.  But good point, and besides using them I think checking out Firestorms help island would be good I liked their viewer walk though.   I think one of the problems is that it's easy to check out a new viewer just walking around talking to people, that will show you the differences in look and feel but that dosen't show differences in building tools and features like RLV, these are't just conveniences there make or break features.

I could see lots of people not wanting to leave SL for SL2 just because of TPV features. 

 

---

This!

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

Furthermore, when I asked the Office of the Information Commissioner if they would intervene to protect my personal data from RedZone, they regrefully informed me that they didn't have jurisdiction since neither LL nor RedZone had legal presences in the EU.

---

I suppose it depends on the timing you asked because if I recall correctly LL had a UK subsidiary at the time they started the changes to the adult policy and used RedZone for processing.  There were UK employees participating in many of the open office meetings on the subject at the beginning. 

---

You don't remember correctly, since RedZone was a device, now banned, made by a resident (now also banned) that purported to identify people's alts.

You're thinking of Aristotle, the service that LL used for Age Verification.    

 

[kiramanell]

---

Tanita Blackburn wrote:

Ebbe I hope you read Macklin Deckard's original comment because I couldn't agree more to this ! Straight to the point. I will not migrate to any new grid - I will stick with 1.0 as long as it is fun and my business runs stable and after that I am done with Linden Lab.

 

Migrating ? Investing all that money again ? tens of thousands of $US ? - Maybe only to find out after a year or two that 2.0 is not working out and they shut it down ? Migrating back to 1.0 after that - or to 3.0 ? - It was you who said in your original posting they you cannot say wether or not you will shut down the old or the new grid or keeping them both or what the future will bring ...

Not very promising, is it ? Defintely not enough ! - Ebbe, you asked a few times your suggestive question what we would like better - Linden Lab coming up with a new grid or someone else ? Trying to make us believe it can only be bad if someone else would do it. The answer is - someone else would be very welcome ! - The only reason why me and many others are still here is because there IS nobody else.

 

---

External competition would be good. One thing that really stood out to me over the years, is that LL got annoyingly greedy with their land-prices. Some stiff competition might jolt them back into reality, maybe.

My main gripe with all of this, however, is the fact that ppl seem to be drooling over a shiny new, and vastly superior, Matrix 2.0, whereas in reality people's computers can't even handle, say, and upgrade to the point-light sytem. Most ppl simply can't even run SL1 at maxed out graphics settings (unless they're okay with 5 fps). So, why this sudden executive push towards an allegedly superior world? Is that decision based on reality in any way? Like some insider knowledge that GPU's are going to run 10x faster by the end of next year, or something?

My long-winded point being, I don't think the world is ready for SL2 yet (heck, see above, it's barely ready for SL1 even). What this WILL cause, however, as you point out, is chaos, a weird competition between LL's own 2 platforms, uncertainty leading to certain drop in sales, and ppl willing to invest progressively less in SL1, thus hastening its demise, leaving a 'maybe it will work out' future for SL2.

[Gaia Clary]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

After some deep thinking about what compatibility will actually mean, in reality, I started to think that backward compatibility might be completely convoluted. Please, take a long look at what the reality of asking for this means. First, it can't actually happen, without converting EVERYTHING over. That means scripts too...

My point is, IMHO, all this energy spent on backward campatibility is energy misspent, for both LL coders, and SL creators. That energy could be much better concentrated on making the best world possible...

Embrace change! Don't let fear keep true change from happening!

---

Hi, Medhue;

I believe you are right.

I think that if LL would be able to keep the new world fully compatible to the old world, then they would not need to create a parallel world at all, but rather upgrade the old one. But i believe that the major reason for not going this way is complexity. And i fully accept that creating a new and better world will need serious changes in many aspects.

And since the better world should be... better:

I personally think that if the new Avatar comes with all what the old one is missing, then stepping forward must be a joy. I predict that new Avatars will look awesome right from the beginning (ok, maybe after a short while). And use less jugglery with weird features (like fitted mesh for example :matte-motes-sour: )

And another question raises...

Will we have a new System Avatar with a Shape system ? If that will be, then there is probably a chance to convert an SL Shape to the new Avatar shape system. And then we can preserve our shape. This could work, maybe not one to one, but at least to some extent, so we do not need to start our shaping from zero. All that LL would need to do here is:

 

 

• Describe the new shape system in detail
• Provide a shape importer

But honestly, i would rather see an improved shape editor (for human beings), maybe similar to what MakeHuman provides. That would be fun...

Regarding Clothes...

@Ebbe: If you want to become a hero, then consider to let this be implemented :

[Zena Zemlja]

---

kiramanell wrote:

---

Tanita Blackburn wrote:

Ebbe I hope you read Macklin Deckard's original comment because I couldn't agree more to this ! Straight to the point. I will not migrate to any new grid - I will stick with 1.0 as long as it is fun and my business runs stable and after that I am done with Linden Lab.

 

Migrating ? Investing all that money again ? tens of thousands of $US ? - Maybe only to find out after a year or two that 2.0 is not working out and they shut it down ? Migrating back to 1.0 after that - or to 3.0 ? - It was you who said in your original posting they you cannot say wether or not you will shut down the old or the new grid or keeping them both or what the future will bring ...

Not very promising, is it ? Defintely not enough ! - Ebbe, you asked a few times your suggestive question what we would like better - Linden Lab coming up with a new grid or someone else ? Trying to make us believe it can only be bad if someone else would do it. The answer is - someone else would be very welcome ! - The only reason why me and many others are still here is because there IS nobody else.

 

---

External competition would be good. One thing that really stood out to me over the years, is that LL got annoyingly greedy with their land-prices. Some stiff competition might jolt them back into reality, maybe.

My main gripe with all of this, however, is the fact that ppl seem to be drooling over a shiny new, and vastly superior, Matrix 2.0, whereas in reality people's computers can't even handle, say, and upgrade to the point-light sytem. Most ppl simply can't even run SL1 at maxed out graphics settings (unless they're okay with 5 fps). So, why this sudden executive push towards an allegedly superior world? Is that decision based on reality in any way? Like some insider knowledge that GPU's are going to run 10x faster by the end of next year, or something?

My long-winded point being, I don't think the world is ready for SL2 yet (heck, see above, it's barely ready for SL1 even). What this WILL cause, however, as you point out, is chaos, a weird competition between LL's own 2 platforms, uncertainty leading to certain drop in sales, and ppl willing to invest progressively less in SL1, thus hastening its demise, leaving a 'maybe it will work out' future for SL2.

---

I have to agree with you on this. Not everyone has the last new high tech computer. Making a new high tech world will not make them buy one. They simply will not be able to afford it. 

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Gaia Clary wrote:

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

After some deep thinking about what compatibility will actually mean, in reality, I started to think that backward compatibility might be completely convoluted. Please, take a long look at what the reality of asking for this means. First, it can't actually happen, without converting EVERYTHING over. That means scripts too...

My point is, IMHO, all this energy spent on backward campatibility is energy misspent, for both LL coders, and SL creators. That energy could be much better concentrated on making the best world possible...

Embrace change! Don't let fear keep true change from happening!

---

Hi, Medhue;

I believe you are right.

I think that if LL would be able to keep the new world fully compatible to the old world, then they would not need to create a parallel world at all, but rather upgrade the old one. But i believe that the major reason for not going this way is complexity. And i fully accept that creating a new and better world will need serious changes in many aspects.

And since the better world should be... better:

I personally think that if the new Avatar comes with all what the old one is missing, then stepping forward must be a joy. I predict that new Avatars will look awesome right from the beginning (ok, maybe after a short while). And use less jugglery with weird features (like fitted mesh for example :matte-motes-sour: )

And another question raises...

Will we have a new System Avatar with a Shape system ? If that will be, then there is probably a chance to convert an SL Shape to the new Avatar shape system. And then we can preserve our shape. This could work, maybe not one to one, but at least to some extent, so we do not need to start our shaping from zero. All that LL would need to do here is:

 

 

• Describe the new shape system in detail
• Provide a shape importer

But honestly, i would rather see an improved shape editor (for human beings), maybe similar to what

MakeHuman

provides. That would be fun...

Regarding Clothes...

@Ebbe: If you want to become a hero, then consider to let this be implemented :

---

Gaia, I so hope Ebbe reads your post!

I love your suggestions for the shape system, and that video about clothing looks way cool. It does not seem to need any invisible layers, which do spoil a lot of the fun for wearing mesh. You wear a skirt, you sit down and everyone sees your legs under the skirt are gone. I think that's just as bad as the old prim skirts showing all of your legs. 

[Gavin Hird]

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

   You're thinking of Aristotle, the service that LL used for Age Verification.    

---

Yes of course, you are right. Sorry my bad.  ;-)

[Gavin Hird]

---

Zena Zemlja wrote:

I have to agree with you on this. Not everyone has the last new high tech computer. Making a new high tech world will not make them buy one. They simply will not be able to afford it. 

---

This is not about developing high tech, but moving into the mobile space where all the action and big revenue are these days. 

[Rex Cronon]

There was a time where there were town meetings at relatively regular intervals.

Town meetings were also held during emergencies.

Mr Ebbe, don't you think that now would be a good time to have a town meeting?

In world using text only. Lasting one to two hours. Not exactly now, but in the next 7 days or so. Starting with a short presentation of pertinent information, followed by a Q&A session?

IMO it might be a good way of calming things down and clearing up the waters...

p.s.

This thread is huge.

Reading it from the start it is a pain:(

It now longer serves as a usful communication medium.

Could it be better if a new thread was started that has a summary of the most important things on this thread?

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Zena Zemlja wrote:

I have to agree with you on this. Not everyone has the last new high tech computer. Making a new high tech world will not make them buy one. They simply will not be able to afford it. 

---

This is not about developing high tech, but moving into the mobile space where all the action and big revenue are these days. 

---

Whatever you call it, the point is that not everyone now using sl will have a computer compatible to go there. 

[Gavin Hird]

---

Zena Zemlja wrote:

---

Whatever you call it, the point is that not everyone now using sl will have a computer compatible to go there. 

---

There is bound to be some collateral damage, so you are right about that.

We can also assume that "something" that will run on a mobile device will handle better also on less powerful traditional PCs so it might not be so bad as you think. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I just thought of something. With all of the changes to eveerything, they will have to have a new MP as well.. Maybe this one will actually work..

[Whirly Fizzle]

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Mony Lindman wrote:

I wanted to participate in this viewer discussion so i dared to log in today via the last version of the official viewer. For the first time after 2 or 3 years .. at that time i wanted to use it but didnt succed to stay in longer than a few minutes.. it drove me crazy..

Now i am still in it as i write in order to study it but i cant promiss i will stay too long because .. it drives me crazy ..

Am I blind or there is no setting where i can tell my head or at least my eyes to no longer follow the mouse? Typical noob question, i know but in this viewer i am noob and in FS i never had this problem.

 

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You're not blind. There is no way to do this on the official viewer, not even with a debug setting.

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I stupid or is this a bug or.. is this the way it was conceived that in order to wear a new hair i must first detach the old otherwise the function wear acts like add ? But only by attachments ..

 

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That's actually a new bug on the latest current release that only surfaced after the AIS3 rolled out to the main grid. Any TPV that has merged and released AIS3 in their viewer will now have the same bug on any region running AIS3. No TPV (apart from maybe CoolVL Viewer) has an AIS3 release out yet so wont have this bug.

 

 

BUG-6487 - "Wear" Behaves Erratically For Attachments on Same Point

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I stupid or are they stupid to not save different login names and passwords although save password is checked and aso the option multiple viewers ? Each time i try it with an alt i must type again the login data and when i go back to my main avatar i must type it again coz it keeps only the last one and doesnt make a list to chose from like "normal" viewers ..

 

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The official viewer does not have this feature

 

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Ah.. and it looks like each alt must set up his viewer preferences coz they are not taken from the avatar that was loged in before..

 

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The official viewer behaves the same as TPV's in this respect and you shouldn't see any difference.

 

 

Some settings are global and some are per-account only.

If you are losing all your setting changes when relogging on an alt you are probably having a silent crash at logout.

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I blind or you cant search inventory by creator name ? Not to mention what not evn FS has but would be needed : search by permissions

 

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You cannot search by creator name or UUID on the official viewer.

 

 

It has been requested: VWR-20826 - As a user, I want to be able to search my inventory by Creator

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I blind or the button for notifications can not be moved at the bottom of the screen?

 

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The official viewer does not have this feature

 

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

I found the "set default upload permissions" but i cant find a place where i can set default permissions for objects i create. Am I blind or .. is it so?

 

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This feature actually just got added by one of the opensource contributers - Jonathan Yap.

 

 

You can find it in the latest Snowstorm-RC viewer

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.11.291465

STORM-68 Allow setting of default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc.

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Does it really have so little options in Prefernces or am i blind and dont see something on which i could click to get more ?

 

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Hum - no, thats all you get  :smileylol:

 

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Is it normal that it loads the inventory again whenever i log in , which in my case , by over 300k items takes ages ?

 

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No, this isn't normal unless you are having silent logout crashes.

 

 

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

And .. really no copy/paste function for object size and rotation values ?

 

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The official viewer does not have this feature.

It has been requested though.

BUG-2256 - Feature Request: Please add Copy/Paste buttons to the Edit window numeric fields for Position/Size/Rotation

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Mony Lindman wrote:

 

 The official viewer takes less.. BUT put a mesh body on and try to edit the shape behind it .. your whole body VIBRATES by each change ..

 

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Hmm not sure what's going on there.

If the mesh body has joint offsets then its possibly a known bug on the latest AIS3 viewer which breaks your shape in nasty ways

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zena Zemlja]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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Zena Zemlja wrote:

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Whatever you call it, the point is that not everyone now using sl will have a computer compatible to go there. 

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There is bound to be some collateral damage, so you are right about that.

We can also assume that "something" that will run on a mobile device will handle better also on less powerful traditional PCs so it might not be so bad as you think. 

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If you are right about this, then that would be a major improvement for a lot of residents for more than one reason only.

[Elenia Boucher]

Hello all

This new wolrd is very exciting.

The viewer will it available on Linux?