What's the sense of mesh clothes?

[Uallas Borgin]

OK, I have some mesh outfits that look really great, specially the formal suits. But something keeps striking me as odd with mesh clothes.

 

We, oldbies avies who started when everybody had a name and surname, went trough a whole evolution. We started with the starter shapes and skings provides by Linden Lab. Then we passed on to freebies and from there to professionally made skins and shapes. We tweaked our shapes to get the look we really wanted.

Now when the really nice clothes come out in mesh, what do we do? We cover our avi from the neck to the toes in alpha layer and attach objects we can't edit. Basically we let clothes designers decide on our avi's shape. Why all that troube creating an avi when your shape changes with you clothes? Are there people who feel the same way?

 

How do new residents handle this? Do you just take the starter shapes, changes eyes, hair and nose and let the clothes designer determine your shape?

 

[Lewis Luminos]

I think that's what it all comes down to, and it will stay that way until there is an easier way for the average user to make their own mesh clothing. And I think it's really sad. There's much less individuality than there used to be. 

[Gettysburg Address]

also very unhappy with the whole mesh thing. can't find anything that is not mesh. it's worse when you can't get what you're wearing to cooperate. used to be you could put on a pair of pants and a shirt and shoes from three different designers, just like rl. now it better be all same or you're screwed. even if that designer only made one thing you like. they will literally tell you to screw off, like one just did to me.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I feel the same way you do, fortunately I have found mesh clothes that I can wear without changing my shape, or changing it in such a minor way it makes no difference to my appearance.

There is hope though for better fitting mesh.  LL is working on adding bones to critical areas of the skeleton which will make mesh clothes fit your existing shape much better.  As you may know certain shape sliders affect the mesh, but other's don't.  This project will add more sliders to those that affect mesh, particularly in areas most people have problems fitting.  You may still have to wear an alpha with some things, but it should help a great deal. I understand this new feature should be out the first half of this year if all goes well with the beta testing.

[Gettysburg Address]

pants need an alpha, but you can't wear a shirt alpha also. no one sells tshirts anymore. so you wear a full body alpha, and now you look like the invisible man. very disappointed with one particular creator. may have taken them five minutes and satisfy their clients but they chose to be an old fashioned jerk about a simple request. I'm going to assume they are a reseller. more bad news for clothes in SL

[Pussycat Catnap]

Not counting the breast cleavage and bouyancy dials that make sense to change when fabric constrains the body, there are 8 shape dials that are affected by mesh.

 

8

 

Seriously people. Over-react much?

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/mesh-clothes-dont-care-if-youre-tall-or-short-thick-or-thin-they-care-about-stretch/

If you're entire self-identity is composed in just:

Women:
Body Fat
Torso Muscle
Breast Size
Love Handles
Belly Size
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags

Men:
Body Fat
Belly Size
Torso Muscle
Love Handles
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags
Package
Pectorals

 

Then... I dunno...

I guess I get it with some kinds of people - who's self image boils down to nothing more than 'package size' or 'breast and butt' size...

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Gettysburg Address wrote:

pants need an alpha, but you can't wear a shirt alpha also. no one sells tshirts anymore. so you wear a full body alpha, and now you look like the invisible man.

---

I have plenty of mesh t-shirts - and a number of shops selling them, and frequently wear a different alpha for pants/skirt and shirt. Often I have 4 or more alpha maps going on as I also use one for mesh feet, one on the eyes for mesh eyes, and if in my furry look - even more.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

pants need an alpha, but you can't wear a shirt alpha also

-end quote -

 

of course you can wear multiple alpha's, only have to choose ADD instead of WEAR

 

 

[Gettysburg Address]

then maybe the people who make clothes for men don't know what they are doing. I begged several this morning and they don't even want to touch it. it's just a matter of whipping out the ole gimp. but you buy stuff from people and you expect them to care, I suppose it's the new crowd. buy a prim, drop a texture on it and viola. you're a creator.

[Gettysburg Address]

no one bothered telling me that, either. again, I don't think anyone really knows much about what they are putting out. they are just resellers. I will try the add. thank you for telling me about this.

[Gettysburg Address]

really, thank you. I spoke with three creators this morning and they didn't even know that.

[Jennifer Boyle]

I changed my shape to be Standard Size Small, and it doesn't look enough different from before for anyone, including me, to notice.  In addition, some of the most noticeable characteristics of avatars, such as height, are not limited by standard sizing.  I don't feel like I look like a lot of other avatars.  Sure, certain shape sliders arte the same for me and thousands of others, but I have yet to meet one that anyone would confuse with me, except an alt that I purposely made identical.

[Gettysburg Address]

Thank you for telling me exactly what to do instead of assuming I knew, criticizing me or telling me to go find someone else. I really appreciate the minute you took to explain this to me. I am very glad you did. I was buying packs to try & find an alpha that would work. I had taken the last four years off from SL so I am really confused about a lot of things. Thank you again. You really made my day.

[Innula Zenovka]

For what it's worth, I've found that the so-called "standard sizes" are anything but, and that I can achieve much better effects by making minute alterations to my regular shape.   As Pussycat says above, there's only 8 sliders I need to play with, and the adjustments are normally very small, and certainly nothing like the ones you used to have to make to wear system skirts.    They're visible in that they make the clothes fit better but they don't make me look any different.

So I simply save the appropriately tweaked body as part of the outfit, and don't worry any more.

 

[Sassy Romano]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

There is hope though for better fitting mesh.  LL is working on adding bones to critical areas of the skeleton which will make mesh clothes fit your existing shape much better.  As you may know certain shape sliders affect the mesh, but other's don't.  This project will add more sliders to those that affect mesh, particularly in areas most people have problems fitting.  You may still have to wear an alpha with some things, but it should help a great deal. I understand this new feature should be out the first half of this year if all goes well with the beta testing.

---

Yes... BUT... this will only be any use to new mesh items that are rigged for this collision set of bones.  There will be a lot of non deforming mesh and without it being explicitly stated in listings, people won't necessarily know.  Thus all the existing mesh that people have bought won't be any different.

The whoe thing was a very poor implementation, demonstrating once again that LL have absolutely no clue as to what their customers want.

[Syo Emerald]

No designer determines my shape. I chose the mesh clothes that fit MY shape. And I love my mesh clothes. I got shoes that are made with mesh. Finally I can wear overknee boots without looking like my leg broke into two seperate pieces. I love my  short skirts, because they don't poke trough my legs anymore, when I dare to move. Mesh made that possible.

I just got a mesh jacket, which would probably either be made with 4 different pieces or would feel like a stone sculture. My mesh jacket adapts. And don't get me started to tell you about the corsetts I have....there are so many clothes that now become possible with mesh and so many that get a huge improvement towards realisim with mesh instead of normal sculpties and prims.

Of course, clothing layer will always have their purpose and shining moments, but nobody now needs to wear a box between their legs to simulate short dresses and skirts. Mesh offers new things and many of these things are good.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

There is hope though for better fitting mesh.  LL is working on adding bones to critical areas of the skeleton which will make mesh clothes fit your existing shape much better.  As you may know certain shape sliders affect the mesh, but other's don't.  This project will add more sliders to those that affect mesh, particularly in areas most people have problems fitting.  You may still have to wear an alpha with some things, but it should help a great deal. I understand this new feature should be out the first half of this year if all goes well with the beta testing.

---

Yes... BUT... this will only be any use to new mesh items that are rigged for this collision set of bones.  There will be a lot of non deforming mesh and without it being explicitly stated in listings, people won't necessarily know.  Thus all the existing mesh that people have bought won't be any different.

The whoe thing was a very poor implementation, demonstrating once again that LL have absolutely no clue as to what their customers want.

---

I was remiss in not pointing this out in my answer, so thanks for doing so.  I agree with you one hundred percent.  I am sure we'll be explaining this to hundreds of people in the forums and on Answers when the new tech comes out. 

What I myself have been doing is to cut back on how much i buy now and only buy mesh clothes that fit my avatar very well. Much of the time I don't even need to wear the alpha with them.  However, like Innula if I have to make a minor adjustment (and it must be minor) I just save the adjusted shape in the folder with the correct size and any alpha I need.  I delete all the other sizes.  When I want to wear that particular clothing I just add or wear the entire folder whichever is appropriate.  Mesh clothes that I paid little to nothing for, such as inexpensive promos and gifts, I'll just trash when the new tech comes out and replace them.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

....Seriously people. Over-react much?

...

Then... I dunno...

I guess I get it with some kinds of people - who's self image boils down to nothing more than 'package size' or 'breast and butt' size...

 

---

The reason you don't 'get' this is because your body shape must be more in line with the typical avatar with 'generous' proportions or you don't identify much with your avatar..   However if your avatar is slender without the typical large to me breasts and butt, it can be very disconcerting to all of the sudden have to grow them bigger to fit some designers idea of what they should be.  Its like being forced to have a boob and butt job in RL that made these areas twice or three times as big.  My avatar body is based on my RL one and it just doesn't feel "right" to me with oversized boobs and butt.

The same applies to people with queen sized avatars that reflect their RL self. I doubt they feel any more comfortable having to go on a SL diet or have breast reduction "surgery" to fit mesh clothes either.

Its not about self image as part of self worth, but a healthy wish to be true to oneself and not a slave to fashion.

[Conifer Dada]

I have some mesh clothes such as skirts and dresses, and they are an improvement on what we had before - I buy full-perms ones if they're not too expensive, then I can do my own textures for them.  I also have some mesh trainers and workboots.  But I don't see the point in mesh for tight-fitting clothes.  I still make do with 'system' jeans and shorts.

When fitted mesh is fully developed, perhaps LL could provide an 'approved'  range of free or very cheap fitted full-perm meshes, for things like T-shirts, dresses, skirts and jeans.

When is it a 'mesh too far'?  I've even seen people with mesh G-strings and mesh socks! 

On the whole, mesh has been a great benefit to SL, adding to realism in clothes, hair, buildings, cars etc.  

What we need now is fully developed fitted mesh for clothing that doesn't only work on the top graphics settings, as seems to be the case with the fitted mesh test viewer.  And also a mesh creation tool that is either in-world or a separate LInden Lab product that is intuitive for SL users.

P.S. One thing that I haven't seen yet is realistic 'normal' human being mesh avatars.  It's as though the mesh creators are skilled at creating and rigging meshes, but tend to work from bad original drawings!

[0seagypsy0]

Gettysburg Address said:    ....."...it's just a matter of whipping out the ole gimp...."

 

Just a matter of "whipping" out the ole gimp huh? so why don't you "whip" out yours? Don't know how to do it?oh so you think you should have artists at your beck and call and that their talent is meaningless? Sorry but learning how to 3d model is time consuming and frustrating. That's why people in 3D design in RL get paid lots of money, and you want to harp on them when you are paying them less than one or two Real USDs for their work.

get over your entitlement issues. Or stop complaing and learn how to use gimp yourself. Its called self reliance. and it can save you a lot of money  in life.

[YvetteVonHelsink]

Answering the question in the OP  "How do new residents handle this?"

I agree that mesh clothing can look nice, but I wear very little mesh because it changes my shape. To me the current state of mesh clothing is like buying one-size-fits-all clothing at a bargain store.

On the other hand, since my avatar doesn't have to do laundry or wash clothes, I could just wear only one outfit and never have to worry about my shape changing.

 

[Uallas Borgin]

:manlol:

 

ROTFLMAO

[Becka Aulder]

Yes, it is just 8 sliders.  But my normal shape that I created when I first entered the world and have been happy with for several years is (according to the standard sizing):  xS to S above the waist and M below the waist.  When wearing separates it's not a usually an issue.  A tiny tweak where needed soemtimes, sometimes an alpha (mainly on the bottom) and I'm good, and my look stays consistant.   With a dress or ensemble piece I have to bite the bullet and go XS/S top to bottom.  It's not a huge change but it is noticable and not a change I care for.

I really would like to see some method developed that will respect the sliders and we can do away with this standard sizing stuff.   I stay away from a fair amount of mesh for because of this.  

Also stuff needs the flexi component which mesh doesn't yet do.  So for those 2 reasons for me it's not the end all thing.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Gettysburg Address wrote:

then maybe the people who make clothes for men don't know what they are doing. I begged several this morning and they don't even want to touch it. it's just a matter of whipping out the ole gimp. but you buy stuff from people and you expect them to care, I suppose it's the new crowd. buy a prim, drop a texture on it and viola. you're a creator.

---

 Do you buy off the rack clothes in RL then go back to the store and complain if they won't custom tailor them for you for free?  I doubt it.  Why do you expect such service in SL when you pay only a dollar or two for the clothes? Most of the time there is a demo you can try and if you don't like the clothes the way they come, don't buy them.  If there is no demo, don't buy.

If you want custom clothing you can hire someone to make it for you but expect to pay custom prices.  Making custom clothing, even alpha layers, takes time and you should not expect anyone to work for free. 

Your comment about just dropping a texture on a mesh model may be true in some cases, but original quality textures take talent and time, generally hours if not a few days.  If it's so easy whip out your gimp and make your own clothes then you won't have anything to complain about.  You'll see it's not as easy as you think to do quality textures because if it were everyone would be doing it. 

 

[Sierra Oskar]

Personally i have never had a problem with mesh, no need to change my shape or anything. I have some mesh things but usually i buy the old technology, i like modifying everything anyways.  I am not very keen on  mesh though, it looks kind of fake. I prefer let's say hair flowing around my shoulders or gowns twirling around me as i dance. It is more pleasant to my eyes and helps my emotes in rp.