What's wrong with being a realistic size?

[Bree Giffen]

i'm 6 feet tall in SL. I'm usually the shortest avatar in a group so I don't feel the need to make myself any shorter.

[Jewel Laurasia]

Going too short means furniture looks big. I'm 6' 7" and my feet don't touch the ground on patio chairs! So in order to not look like a kid in adult furniture, you have to keep some height.

[Penny Patton]

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

Going too short means furniture looks big. I'm 6' 7" and my feet don't touch the ground on patio chairs! So in order to not look like a kid in adult furniture, you have to keep some height.

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I find there's too much inconsistency among avatar sizes and the scales people build to to prevent even the largest avatars from often looking like a child in an adult's chair. Even among animations alone. I recently bought a table set for a tavern I built and set it up so that my feet rested against the floor in the default pose. Then I cycled through the poses and found some of them put my feet through the foor, and others left them floating above the ground.

I eventually settled on setting the table up so that my feet never clipped through the floor. Floating feet don't look as bad as no feet at all! This isn't even close to the only time I've encountered that, it's pretty typical, really.

 

 And that's one of the big problems, it's not really a question of "big avatars or small avatars", fact of the matter is, people in SL largely do not build to any consistent scale whatsoever. Even among so-called "average size" human avatars I see people ranging anywhere from about 6' to nearly 9' tall. This creates a lot of problems for content creation, which is one reason why people like myself do feel rather passionate about the topic.

[Jewel Laurasia]

Is it too late to revamp the current mesh avitar and introduce a new default sizing into SL? Would surely break a lot of mesh clothing out now...

[Penny Patton]

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

Is it too late to revamp the current mesh avitar and introduce a new default sizing into SL? Would surely break a lot of mesh clothing out now...

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Mesh clothing would be largely unaffected by an upgrade to the avatar mesh unless they changed the skeleton.

Also, there is no reason to remove the existing old avatar mesh, if I were to upgrade the SL avatar I would introduce a new base avatar alongside the old and slowly phase the old one out over time.

 

 I wouldn't remove it entirely, but I'd first introduce the new mesh and have new users start with that, but able to toggle to the old for legacy content. Then as time went on, I'd make the old mesh less visible. Still available to those who wanted it, but absent from the initial appearance options once it was no longer necessary.

[Coby Foden]

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

Going too short means furniture looks big. I'm 6' 7" and my feet don't touch the ground on patio chairs! So in order to not look like a kid in adult furniture, you have to keep some height.

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I'm 1.80 meters (5 ft 10in) tall.  I have never felt the need to make myself any taller due to the oversized furniture.  I don't look like a kid - even when sitting on the oversized furniture.  It just looks that there is something wrong with the furniture sizing - not the other way round.

:matte-motes-big-grin:  :smileywink:

 

[SugarPutty Magic]

You have understand being a RL realistic size isnt realistic in SL.  A realistic size in SL is more or less based off of where you hang out and those that are around you.  People can **bleep** and moan that their height sliders say 5'3" feet and they are a realistic size,  But if they are hanging out with avatars 7+ feet. there is nothing realistic about their height for the scene they are in.  Dont expect the SL world to change to suit you. If you want to fit in with those you surround yourself with, Then adjust your height to fit in with them. Don't demand they adjust theirs to fit in with you.

[SugarPutty Magic]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

Going too short means furniture looks big. I'm 6' 7" and my feet don't touch the ground on patio chairs! So in order to not look like a kid in adult furniture, you have to keep some height.

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I'm 1.80 meters (5 ft 10in) tall.  I have never felt the need to make myself any taller due to the oversized furniture.  I don't look like a kid - even when sitting on the oversized furniture.  It just looks that there is something wrong with the furniture sizing - not the other way round.

:matte-motes-big-grin:  :smileywink:

 

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Maybe in your eyes and others, but in some peoples eyes it will still be you that looks small. I have avatars ranging from 5'3" to 6'3" all on the shorter side or avrage size of the scene I am hanging out in. I wouldnt bring my 5'3" avatar to a place with 7 foot tall avatars, and expect not to be treated as child sized.  and i woudlnt bring my 6'3" avatar to a scene with more  RL messurment sized avatars and not expect to be treated like a tall women.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

 But if they are hanging out with avatars 7+ feet. there is nothing realistic about their height for the scene they are in.  Dont expect the SL world to change to suit you. If you want to fit in with those you surround yourself with, Then adjust your height to fit in with them. Don't demand they adjust theirs to fit in with you.

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I completely agree with you on that. I have shapes ranging in height from 5'5" to 7'2". When I'm with the usual people I hang out with, I'm quite a bit shorter than they are, even in my tallest shape. When I host a skinny dip (btw, I never get naked, the last thing that bunch of guys want to see is a naked woman) I wear my shortest shape because dancing next to the 8' tall DJ, it's good for laughs and jokes.  I've been to events with 'realistic" sized men who are about 3 or feet shorter in appearance than everyone around them. As a friend of mine said the other day, while they are "child sized" based on the off kilter norm of SL, they definitely aren't children, but at first glance they can look like kids with hormonal issues (beards, adult shapes, chest hair).

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

Going too short means furniture looks big. I'm 6' 7" and my feet don't touch the ground on patio chairs! So in order to not look like a kid in adult furniture, you have to keep some height.

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I'm 1.80 meters (5 ft 10in) tall.  I have never felt the need to make myself any taller due to the oversized furniture.  I don't look like a kid - even when sitting on the oversized furniture.  It just looks that there is something wrong with the furniture sizing - not the other way round.

:matte-motes-big-grin:  :smileywink:

 

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I don't look like a child avatar when I'm sitting on furniture scaled for larger avatars, in buildings scaled for larger avatars, but when everything around me is scaled very large and I'm not, then it is me that looks out of proportion to my environment because I am. The reverse is also the case; if one of my oversized friends came over to visit me in the skybox I have scaled to my shorter shape, then he would look out of place and silly.

[Nox Vought]

Do what you want! I love variety in avatars personally. Just like real life, if we all looked the exact same it would be boring.

 

Never been called out on my avs height, which is my real life height and I'm tall as hell, but in game I feel freaking short as heck. 

Maybe some people are lacking in other ways and figure maxing the height slider makes up for it.  *nudge*

[Penny Patton]

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

You have understand being a RL realistic size isnt realistic in SL.  A realistic size in SL is more or less based off of where you hang out and those that are around you.  People can **bleep** and moan that their height sliders say 5'3" feet and they are a realistic size,  But if they are hanging out with avatars 7+ feet. there is nothing realistic about their height for the scene they are in.  Dont expect the SL world to change to suit you. If you want to fit in with those you surround yourself with, Then adjust your height to fit in with them. Don't demand they adjust theirs to fit in with you.

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 No one should need to change their size just to appear one size, due to shifting scales between locations. That's actually pretty ridiculous, just on the face of it, even before you delve into all of the problems it creates for immersion and content creation. It shouldn't be an issue to begin with.

 There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a 5'3" avatar even in a sim where most people are 7' tall. Of course the 5'3" avatar isn't going to make any friends if they start demanding everyone shrink down to their size, but the 7' tall avatars are being just as silly if they demand the 5'3" avatar use a larger shape.

The problem is, and has always been, the lack of a consistent scale for the userbase to work with. This is a problem that is entirely at the feet of the Lindens."Short" and "tall" are relative, but 5'3" is 5'3" regardless of how tall you or I are, the time of day, or what we had for breakfast.

[SugarPutty Magic]

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Penny Patton wrote:

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

You have understand being a RL realistic size isnt realistic in SL.  A realistic size in SL is more or less based off of where you hang out and those that are around you.  People can **bleep** and moan that their height sliders say 5'3" feet and they are a realistic size,  But if they are hanging out with avatars 7+ feet. there is nothing realistic about their height for the scene they are in.  Dont expect the SL world to change to suit you. If you want to fit in with those you surround yourself with, Then adjust your height to fit in with them. Don't demand they adjust theirs to fit in with you.

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 No one should need to change their size just to appear one size, due to shifting scales between locations. That's actually pretty ridiculous, just on the face of it, even before you delve into all of the problems it creates for immersion and content creation. It shouldn't be an issue to begin with.

 There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a 5'3" avatar even in a sim where most people are 7' tall. Of course the 5'3" avatar isn't going to make any friends if they start demanding everyone shrink down to their size, but the 7' tall avatars are being just as silly if they demand the 5'3" avatar use a larger shape.

The problem is, and has always been, the lack of a consistent scale for the userbase to work with. This is a problem that is entirely at the feet of the Lindens."Short" and "tall" are relative, but 5'3" is 5'3" regardless of how tall you or I are, the time of day, or what we had for breakfast.

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5'3" might be 5'3" no matter SL or RL. In RL however 5'"3 is on the shorter size of the avrage adult human.  In the world of SL 5'3" is considered a little person ( politicly correct term.) Its like compairing apples to oranges.  You always hear from the people that champion for the RL height to equal SL height. But its a differant world and as a differant world it has differant norms.. If you take the avrage height of both worlds into account.  its unrealistic to expect that RL height should be equivlent to SL height. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

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5'3" might be 5'3" no matter SL or RL. In RL however 5'"3 is on the shorter size of the avrage adult human.  In the world of SL 5'3" is considered a little person ( politicly correct term.) Its like compairing apples to oranges.  You always hear from the people that champion for the RL height to equal SL height. But its a differant world and as a differant world it has differant norms.. If you take the avrage height of both worlds into account. 

its unrealistic to expect that RL height should be equivlent to SL height. 

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A meter is a meter is a meter, wether it is SL or RL.

 

[Penny Patton]

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

5'3" might be 5'3" no matter SL or RL. In RL however 5'"3 is on the shorter size of the avrage adult human.  In the world of SL 5'3" is considered a little person ( politicly correct term.) Its like compairing apples to oranges.  You always hear from the people that champion for the RL height to equal SL height. But its a differant world. If you take the avrage height of both worlds into account.  its unrealistic to expect that RL height should be equivlent to SL height. 

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I think you're confusing issues. People who champion "real world height" do so because of its practical benefits. You really can actually get a whole lot more out of SL when both working to a consistent scale and building smaller than people generally do in SL. The metric LL has provided as a part of the SL building tools actually work well for that because applying averare real world sizes to avatars leaves plenty of room for exceptionally short or exceptionally tall sizes while still drastically increasing your ability to construct larger, more detailed environments within a given area of SL land.

 I'm saying here that (outside of places like RP sims where appearance rules exist for immersion and thematic reasons) there's no reason to demand people conform just to fit in.

[Paul Hexem]

Honestly, I just wish LL established some kind of consistent scale. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 scale, just any kind of consistent scale across the grid.

 

Back when I was drafting, we always drew to scale, even if it was something weird - just as long as it was persistent across the project.

 

What we have now is people just eyeball things next to their avatar, which was already eyeballed.

[Perrie Juran]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Honestly, I just wish LL established some kind of consistent scale. It doesn't even have to be 1:1 scale, just any kind of consistent scale across the grid.

 

Back when I was drafting, we always drew to scale, even if it was something weird - just as long as it was persistent across the project.

 

What we have now is people just eyeball things next to their avatar, which was already eyeballed.

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^^^^^^^   THIS !!!!!  MY BOLDING FOR EMPHASIS  ^^^^^^^^

 

The title of this thread is a misnomer.  What the OP means here is accurate on a 1:1 scale.

When I did model railroads and built model cars and ships and other things as a kid I had to watch what SCALE I was using or my train sets did not look Realistic.  If you mixed "N" scale with "G" scale with "H.O." scale things got to looking pretty weird.

Realistic and accurate are two different things in the context of what Second Life is:  A scale model world.

What we could say is that we could achieve greater realism with greater accuracy.

In the context of SL, an Avatar that insists on being on the 1:1 scale does not look realistic in 90% plus of SL.

While I do support the goal of greater accuracy, I am also pragmatic about it.  If someone insists on being dogmatic about it, that is their choice.  For me, I adapt to where I am.  I'd rather not have to adapt but that seems better than getting my panties in a  wad over the issue.  After all, it basically only takes me one dam mouse click!

[Jewel Laurasia]

You're a martian. Just whip out a ray gun and shrink everyone else down to your size. Instant scale!

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Jewel Laurasia wrote:

You're a martian. Just whip out a ray gun and shrink everyone else down to your size. Instant scale!

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That may not be a bad idea.  Though I do like leggy women. 

[Penny Patton]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

While I do support the goal of greater accuracy, I am also pragmatic about it.  If someone insists on being dogmatic about it, that is their choice.  For me, I adapt to where I am.  I'd rather not have to adapt but that seems better than getting my panties in a  wad over the issue.  After all, it basically only takes me one dam mouse click!

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While there are some who insist on being dogmatic, I do think the majority are simply being practical when they say, "a works better than b because of x, y and z" and then leave it up to everyone to decide whether or not to take advantage of that information but then you see a lot of others mistaking that for some sort of pressure to conform.

 

 Like the OP here, they're not making a judgement call on anyone else's avatar, they're just saying they made their avatar the size they felt comfortable with and asking a fair question, why people are giving them grief for it? They could be talking about their avatar's skin colour or hair style. Or their choice to be a cartoon character instead of a super model.

[Coby Foden]

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SugarPutty Magic wrote:

 

5'3" might be 5'3" no matter SL or RL. In RL however 5'"3 is on the shorter size of the avrage adult human.  In the world of SL 5'3" is considered a little person ( politicly correct term.) Its like compairing apples to oranges.  You always hear from the people that champion for the RL height to equal SL height. But its a differant world and as a differant world it has differant norms.. If you take the avrage height of both worlds into account.  its unrealistic to expect that RL height should be equivlent to SL height. 

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Globally 5'3" tall female actually isn't on the shorter side.  Taking the average of all countries it could be even a bit taller than the global average.  The average height varies to some degrees in different countries.

 

Height Chart of Men and Women in Different Countries

It has already been proven many times in other threads that RL meter = SL meter.  SL does not have it's own separate "norms" in dimensioning things.  Same rules of scaling things that apply in RL will also apply perfectly well in SL.

 

It's just that designers should stop building oversized stuff.  If everything was built to RL scale then people would start seeing that also avatars scaled to RL sizes would work extremely well.  And if in general the avatars would be near average RL heights, then it would be easy for somebody who wanted to be tall, to be really tall in comparison to average heights.

The added bonus would be - as Penny has said many times - that people could fit a nice garden (for example) to their land - instead of filling their land to the edges with huge oversized house.

:smileyhappy:

 

 

[Sephina Frostbite]

I personally love my avi tall. This is sl where you can be anything. I saw a walking laptop one time and I even see this strange Martian posting on the forums sometimes lol. jk. Why does it have to be rl height. How may rl vampires and zombies are there lol? I wish people can except everyone. No matter the height.

Btw I am 4 Ft 9 in in RL.. Maybe that's why I love taller avis lol.

[Penny Patton]

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

I personally love my avi tall. This is sl where you can be anything. I saw a walking laptop one time and I even see this strange Martian posting on the forums sometimes lol.

jk. Why does it have to be rl height. How may rl vampires and zombies are there lol? I wish people can except everyone. No matter the height.

Btw I am 4 Ft 9 in in RL.. Maybe that's why I love taller avis lol.

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You're absolutely right! Why should anyone be required to be a realistic height? Why can't people be any size or shape they like? By that same token, why must people be required to be huge? I like my 5'10" shape, why do people insist I make myself larger? I give away shapes ranging from 4'9" to 6'3", why should anyone be harassed for using those?

 This is what I mean when I say there are people who confuse the issue . No one is saying you need to scale down your avatar.

 Coby didn't say you should need to be RL sized. She just pointed out the same issues I have in that building to a consistent scale, and building smaller than people typically do in SL has a lot of practical benefits for those who choose to persue them. 

 The OP certainly didn't say you should make your avatar smaller. They said they made their own avatar smaller, because that was their preference, found themselves being harassed because of it and are asking "Why?" Why should they not be afforded the same courtesy you're asking for here?

 

 That's really the bottom line in any of these discussions.

[Sephina Frostbite]

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Penny Patton wrote:

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

I personally love my avi tall. This is sl where you can be anything. I saw a walking laptop one time and I even see this strange Martian posting on the forums sometimes lol.

jk. Why does it have to be rl height. How may rl vampires and zombies are there lol? I wish people can except everyone. No matter the height.

Btw I am 4 Ft 9 in in RL.. Maybe that's why I love taller avis lol.

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You're absolutely right! Why should anyone be required to be a realistic height? Why can't people be any size or shape they like? By that same token, why must people be required to be huge? I like my 5'10" shape, why do people insist I make myself larger? I give away shapes ranging from 4'9" to 6'3", why should anyone be harassed for using those?

 This is what I mean when I say there are people who confuse the issue . No one is saying you need to scale down your avatar.

 Coby didn't say you should need to be RL sized. She just pointed out the same issues I have in that building to a consistent scale, and building smaller than people typically do in SL has a lot of practical benefits for those who choose to persue them. 

 The OP certainly didn't say you should make your avatar smaller. They said they made their own avatar smaller, because that was their preference, found themselves being harassed because of it and are asking "Why?" Why should they not be afforded the same courtesy you're asking for here?

 

 That's really the bottom line in any of these discussions.

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Oh I wasnt attacking them, I agree with them completely. Just I get it from the other spectrum. All should be respected. Coby, the OP and everyone tall and small

[solstyse]

The OP is going to places that are much different than the ones I've been at. I always use short avi's, and the worst I ever got was a question about my character's age, or a question about why I'm so short. Using the meters, most of my shapes are between 5'2" and 5'9." Every single time, when I told them that I never portray anyone underage, and "The meter located at ________ says my shape is this tall" they accept it. Almost immediately, all talk of actual size ends, and we procede with whatever storyline we want to create using relative size. All that means is that if I look like the top of my head reaches only to somone's shoulders, then that's how we write.

I see debates on the boards all the time, but inworld, I only encounter people who welcome that kind of diversity.