What's wrong with being a realistic size?

[PaschaDmitriy]

I decided to have a normal sized human avatar when i first joined SL, i like to be realistic and wanted to feel like me in SL. I couldn't find a normal sized shape anywhere, they were all over 7ft tall, i'm 5ft 9 in RL and thats the height i wanted my avatar to be, thats just me, of course i have nothing against being a giant but i feel happier as my true self. well i couldnt find any realistic sized shapes and i tried on lots of demos, so i created my own which i have to say im very happy with. but heres the problem now, i feel like i dont fit in anywhere as i feel and look tiny, haha, but surely it shouldnt be like this, and the reception i get from others is either to be completely ignored or to be picked on, called names because im not over 7ft tall, hurtful names and even being pushed around. surely we all come here to be able to freely choose what avatar we like, and i respect other choices but it seems very few respect mine, im only tryibg to be my rl self but it seems so many are anti realistic size and i wonder if someone can tell me why they think this is so? and why does hardly anyone or even creators make or use realistic size avatars?

[iCade]

Second Life is exactly that, a Second Life, to be whatever you can't be in your first life. Only a small percentage create avatars to portray their RL looks. Second Life is whatever you make it, and it seems the majority prefers larger avatars.

My avatar is 6 ft tall, I am 5'5 in real life. Sure, a lot of avatars are bigger, but to each their own. It doesn't bother me whether someone is taller or smaller and I don't feel left out or like an outcast because of it.

 

Size doesn't matter after all

[Abfab Hax]

I really think that the "height" scale in SL has never been equal to the one in RL.  Yeah, it might say your 6ft - 7ft something.....but its not really true.  You just have to make it your own.

[Dresden Ceriano]

The simple answer is... the majority of avatars and objects in SL are not built to scale.  You have decided to size your avatar to scale and because everyone/thing else is built larger it makes you look smaller in comparison... there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  You have two choices... either make yourself bigger in order to better "fit in" or be true to yourself and tell anyone that gives you a hard time over it where they can stick it.

...Dres

[PaschaDmitriy]

Hi iCade, if only size didnt matter, maybe i have it bad because im male, everyone i have met is so anti my size, when they see my realistic size avatar, they are either very rude to me and call me names or are telling me my shape needs sorting out that i look like one of snow whites friends. im happy with my choice and i only wish i could fit in as i am, i dont want a 7ft tall avatar.i actually think i look better this way,more normal looking,when i tried the larger avs they looked kind of freaky long legs huge shoulders etc theyre just not for me, and i wouldnt feel happy looking like that, but because im not a giant, i am already finding my confidence at going out and about meeting others is becoming more and more difficult just because im not like they are and the way they react when they see me, unless there are other avs like me i really dont feel i fit in when everyone should be accepted for who they are.

[Dora Gustafson]

I am in a group called: Normal Height And Proud!
We all agree with you
Join and you will get a tag telling the world you are normal and NOT small

:smileysurprised::smileyvery-happy:

[PaschaDmitriy]

thats some great advice dres, im not going to change to please others so yes anymore unkind comments and i will just hit block and then derender them, haha

[PaschaDmitriy]

Thankyou Dora :smileywink:  i think i shall also join your group then i can walk around displaying the tag all the time, haha :smileyhappy: 

[iCade]

One of my avatars is a gorgeous 6' guy, I used to use him quite often, and never was judged for his height. I am unsure where you're hanging out that those are the reactions you get, perhaps go elsewhere without such individuals?

And please don't change. There's enough 8 feet tall guys with bulging muscles and a fake tan to make the Jersey Shore crew jealous. I don't find that attractive at all, but again, to each their own, and I'm happy to see guys stray from that, I really am!

[Nova Convair]

SL is not like RL. That is often mistaken

Look at the avatars, ages, sizes, features, clothes. Ever seen that in RL? Not even close! And - looking at the world through a camera hovering above and behind you is a complete different perspective and experience. And perspective leads to many other things.

So if someone wants a RL avatar in SL - hey no problem, good idea - as long as they don't try to bother me and expect me to follow.

Nope, not interested, your world but not my world.

[Jade Nova]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a realistic size! I'm 5'5" irl, and I try to make my avatar reflect that. Unfortunately when my avatar is exactly 5'5" I get mistaken for a child avatar so I do have to make her a little taller, but even still I am usually up to other people's chests and waists in comparison. I think when avatars are stretched to 7 feet and taller, they tend to look like a praying mantis. ;o Limbs get too stretched out and long and it just distorts everything, taking away the human feel of it. I've noticed very few people mess with body thickness to keep their height proportional but even at just under 6" (my avatars current height) I have her body thickness on 29 (this is a picture of my avatars body), while most people who have height set to 100 have thickness on 0. Honestly I'd much rather see realistic and "flawed" avatars than ones that are always super thin and perfect. Flaws make us who we are and I like seeing avatars with personality rather than just mannequins all the time. 

I really wish things were more to scale on SL, but I think part of the reason it's not is because of the default camera distance. It makes everything look smaller so we build larger to compensate for it.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I made myself more natural sized. I am 6'3" in RL and 6'5" in SL. I will still get the occasional "hey shorty" or" we dont allow kid avs here" from people, usually i just ignore them or reply that i am an adult and not a child.. Still pisses me off. 

 

or there is my Dwarven Warrior at a mighty 5'3"

yeah.. he looks like a child...

my advice. be true to yourself.

[Ren Toxx]

Pascha, I think there's two separate issues here, and perhaps you should treat them as such. One is of avatar design, and the other is of social acceptance.

 

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PaschaDmitriy wrote: [...] 

i feel like i dont fit in anywhere as i feel and look tiny, haha, but surely it shouldnt be like this [...]

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Maybe it shouldn’t... but it is, and pray believe me, it ain’t changing anytime soon, ‘RL height pride groups’ or not.

 

Pascha, the way Second Life was created and the way it evolved, some things just don’t translate directly from RL anymore, if they ever did; we can discuss the reasons why ‘till we get blue in the face (as has been done countless times before)... they’re still not going to translate, and at best, minor attempts by some users at reverting that are going to remain... well, minor; they’re commendable, and you’re free to join the cause, but for reality’s sake, it’s just highly unlikely that they’ll change anything much.

 

And before you -or anyone else- jumps at me for sounding ‘sheepish’, consider this:

- Linden dollars have a very different value than either USA dollars or any other major RL currency. Should we try to correct this?

- Even if we did, many SL products would still have a vastly different inherent cost... should we pay sh*tloads of L$ for a small, crappy shoebox of a house, and then a few meagre L$ for an in-house mesh created hair with lots of textures and sculpted details?

- We don’t fly in RL. Will you vow never to use that function in SL?

- Good luck trying to walk, fly, sail or parachute to an isolate private region, without using the non-RL teleport function. And lotsa patience even in reaching mainland regions by any of the aforementioned, RL-like means of transport.

- Our avatars don’t die, or even age. Call me unrealistic, but honestly I don’t quite fancy mine doing either.

- ... etc.

 

My point is, for better or worse, Second Life is a rather different world, either by design or by trend... but it is, and it simply has different rules and standards. You’re of course welcome to, regardless of all this, try and shoehorn RL hard measures into it; it’s your right, and no, no one should belittle you for it. But come what may, they’re still not going to be SL standards, and for that reason, you’re still not going to be the ‘normal’ you want to be. Not in SL.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Jade Glazner wrote:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a realistic size! I'm 5'5" irl, and I try to make my avatar reflect that. Unfortunately when my avatar is exactly 5'5" I get mistaken for a child avatar so I do have to make her a little taller, but even still I am usually up to other people's chests and waists in comparison. I think when avatars are stretched to 7 feet and taller, they tend to look like a praying mantis. ;o Limbs get too stretched out and long and it just distorts everything, taking away the human feel of it. I've noticed very few people mess with body thickness to keep their height proportional but even at just under 6" (my avatars current height) I have her body thickness on 29 (

this is a picture of my avatars body

), while most people who have height set to 100 have thickness on 0. Honestly I'd much rather see realistic and "flawed" avatars than ones that are always super thin and perfect. Flaws make us who we are and I like seeing avatars with personality rather than just mannequins all the time. 

I really wish things were more to scale on SL, but I think part of the reason it's not is because of the default camera distance. It makes everything look smaller so we build larger to compensate for it.

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There is nothing wrong with being "realistic" or a "realistic size."

The problem is that within SL you don't look realistic by doing what you do.

When I started SL there was no height listed in the appearance (shape) editor.  We just had sliders with numbers.  So  all adjustments were made based on visual impressions and comparisons. So a few quirks notwithstanding we all looked realistic standing next to and compared to one another.

"Realistic" in SL really has always been a matter of visual perspective.

Now if you asked the question "what is wrong making my height accurate by the meter scale in SL," that is your right and privilege.  But  by doing this you are choosing to make yourself look unrealistic (in this case very short) in SL.

 

 

 

[SNAKE Topaz]

Like Dresden Ceriano Said before, Objects and avatar shapes have never been fit to scale. I'm a landscape designer and builder in SL and I face some scale issues all the time. For example, The way things are sized in SL are varying in such a way that when you enter two lands of the same area, you get the feel that one of them is larger than the other. Some lands feel croud and area consuming even if they have only a house with a backyard, while other lands of the same area have a lot of things with much more empty space. I think this is related to the feeling that an avatar is small or large.

This kind of problem has been under discussion for a long time and didn't yield any agreement, as far as I know. It really depends on comparing your avatar to the surroundings and making sure you fit right in the place where you stay most of the time, not comparing your self with other avatars. :matte-motes-wink:

[MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik]

n/t

[Dora Gustafson]

The problem with scaling in SL arise from the way the default camera is placed high above any avatar
The camera default position can be changed in order to have a better view
As a rule of thumb place the camera level with your avatar's eyes for a realistic picture

The subject has been up again and again in the forum

You will find a very thorough approach to the subject here

:smileysurprised::smileyvery-happy:

[Penny Patton]

Like plenty of others have said, there's nothing wrong with being realistically sized, just like there's nothing wrong with choosing to be larger. The mistake a lot of people make is assuming that the reason everyone is so large is a deliberate choice. The reality is that most people are entirely unaware of their avatar's size. You'll even see people with avatars between 8 and 9 feet tall who claim to be 6' in their profiles.

It has more to do with LL never really having a mind for visual design and detail. Until a couple of years ago, the official viewer did not even tell you your height. Now that it does...it's wrong. If you're using that to determine your height, you might actually still be larger than you realize. If you want to be absolutey certain of your height, use a pose stand, take off your shoes and hair, then stretch a prim from the bottom of your bare feet to the top of your skull. All land and prims in SL are measured by the metric standard.

 

 There's actually some very practical reasons to work to scale. Such as the cost of land. Most people build to an even larger scale than their avatars, which has the effect of making SL feel much smaller and less detailed. This also pushes people to spread out more, making SL feel more empty.

 Building to an inflated scale, you get far less for your money. Aside from a handful of exceptions, most full sims hold only about 1/4th a sim's worth of content because of this. That's pretty substantial. And it's not just space, larger content eats up more land impact, especially when you're working with mesh.

 Building to scale also allows you to use scale as a deliberate design element. This means huge avatars can properly tower over realistically sized human avatars. A huge cathedral can actually look like a huge cathedral even if it's "only" 20x40x15m.

 Iff LL had considered this from the beginning and made starter avatars realistic sizes, while also providing correct avatar size information in the appearance editor, things like couples animations would work better, more seamlessly.

 

 Speaking of, you should check out those exceptions.

Doomed Ship is the big one. A sci-fi horror sim that has been built to scale since about 2007. Despite predating mesh, it showcases how much more content you can bring to a sim when working to scale. You can get lost there for hours and still not see the entire sim.

1920's Berlin Project is another example. Again, the city itself fits entirely within a single sim (The neighboring sim contains a mall of period content.)

 Both are also very active RP sim, putting to rest the notion that such sims will drive away visitors.

Of course there's also my own build at Milk & Cream. An adult area, with a fantasy setting. The entire club and island area fits neatly within a quarter sim parcel. It is also as detailed or moreso than many larger sims with more prims at their disposal because of the LI saving benefits of working to scale. The arrival point is the club area, but be sure to take the teleporter at the entrance up to the island play area to see the full scope of the build.

 I do recommend making some changes to your SL camera settings before visiting these sims. The SL camera is not very well thought out and is a contributing factor to how large people build. Here are some instructions on changing your camera settings. You can always revert to the defaults by opening those same two settings windows and clicking the "reset to default" button in each.

[Maccaulay]

Wow that looks amazing Penny.  I'm not a big avatar myself, im a guy and actually only 5'5 in RL as well, and the avatar height scale in edit doesn't even go that low,lol so i made my av slightly bigger than the real me. But it's all  a matter of personal choice like many have already said.  But i love realism in virtual worlds, the more realistic it is, the more i'm fascinated with it, to me realistic looks far better than over sized anything. So yes if you love realistic sized things stick with them, don't let anyone change your mind, and be who you want to be, if others don't like it, that's their problem not yours :matte-motes-wink:

BTW I have had a few comments for being small myself, like midget and hobbit and some have called me an oompa loompa at times, lol but for me its like water off a ducks back, i don't let it bother me, and i certainly wouldn't let it change my mind into being bigger either. We all come in different shapes and sizes in SL like we do in RL, and there will always be discrimination of some kind by someone, but they are mostly the bullies that pick on people, nice people leave you alone  and accept you for who you want to be.

[Penny Patton]

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Maccaulay wrote:

I'm not a big avatar myself, im a guy and actually only 5'5 in RL as well, and the avatar height scale in edit doesn't even go that low,lol so i made my av slightly bigger than the real me. 

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Thanks! 

Like I said, the height in the appearance editor (at least in the official viewer, many TPVs correct this) is wrong, telling you you're shorter than you actually are. There are a couple scripted rulers which are more or less accurate, but the only 100% accurate method is to hop on a pose stand and manually measure yourself with a prim.

 Also, there are multiple appearance editor sliders which affect height, there is no reason you couldn't be 5'5" in SL. I give away a set of free, full perm shapes. Aside from a 5' fantasy dwarf, none of the male shapes are that short, but it should be fairly easy to edit one of the 5'10" shapes down to that size and then copy over your face settings.

Every so often I add new shapes to the set as I get requests or the urge to make a specific shape strikes me.

[Sephina Frostbite]

I have the exact opposite problem. When I started everyone was tall so I am. Now everyone wants to be "real" size and even though Im not huge by any means I am tall. I sometimes will get pick on for it. Although rare. I feel out of place and recently made an avi that is "real" size. Im not happy with it but Im not tall anymore.

[Penny Patton]

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Sephina Frostbite wrote:

I have the exact opposite problem. When I started everyone was tall so I am. Now everyone wants to be "real" size and even though Im not huge by any means I am tall. I sometimes will get pick on for it. Although rare. I feel out of place and recently made an avi that is "real" size. Im not happy with it but Im not tall anymore.

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There are people on both sides of the equation which feel the need to harass people on the other side.

Short people who call tall people names and try to shame them into shrinking.

Tall people who harass, namecall, and even threaten to AR shorter avatars (under the ridiculus notion that size=age).

I like to think that these people represent a minority. It's not productive and all it does is turn the discussion into some kind of ridiculous "us versus them" argument.

[Paul Hexem]

It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.

 

I recently made myself shorter. Still over 7 feet, but in the sims I work on, I'm shorter even than some women. It's ridiculous.

[Sephina Frostbite]

So what size/ height are guys now?

[Teagan Tobias]

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Penny Patton wrote:

Like I said, the height in the appearance editor (at least in the official viewer, many TPVs correct this) is wrong, telling you you're shorter than you actually are. There are a couple scripted rulers which are more or less accurate, but the only 100% accurate method is to hop on a pose stand and manually measure yourself with a prim.

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I'm going to try the prim thing, when I try to find my height I get everything from 5 feet to 5' 6”. I don't know if I'm just lucky, but in over five years here no one has ever said anything to me about my height. I try to dress nice, and because of that I guess I don't look like a child.