Time LL up'ed the stakes for Griefers

greek Wingtips · March 17, 2013

Couple of week’s back I wrote about griefers and trolls and people who sole aim is to come
Into SL and cause grief to others, I suggested that LL should take a harder approach with these
Type of persons, but was met with most replies about me being to much of a drama queen
Then the subject goes of its tracks then it then becomes stupid
I think LL should do this; any upheld complaint should be an instant ban for a week
Two complaints 2 weeks, three 1 month.
Yesterday I went to a really nice sim, it was listed on desinations and was so popular
That the sim got full, I was with my partner and as seen in the picture this (thing)
I won’t name as I be in trouble was going around urinating on everyone, now muting
was not possible, walking away was not possible and reasoning with him to stop as many
told him did not stop, he would following everyone around and urinate on them, I stood
my ground to take evindence to create a complaint, most people left the sim, likewise
myself and partner did too, was the only way to get away from this griefer.
My question is this, should this (thing) be allowed to do this after overwhelming
Evidence, he never sought permission to do what he did and also upset many other
Persons,spoiling their enjoyment I know for a fact nothing will be done with this from LL
Dispite me complaining

greek Wingtips · March 17, 2013

PS: As for some reason I cannot upload the picture, if you wish to see please contact me in world, Names are not attached to Picture just picture showing this (thing) doing what he did

2.9k · March 17, 2013

no he is not. and you AR him

you follow procedure. which is the right thing for you to do

is up to linden now. what action they take

greek Wingtips · March 17, 2013

what is meant "no he is not. and you AR him" explain, as for LL

what action do you really think will be taken?

2.9k · March 17, 2013

sorry

no he is not" meaning that greifer guy. he is not allowed to do that

you file an AR (Abuse Report) against him yes. which is the right action for you to take

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

Amethyst Jetaime · March 17, 2013

How is it that it was not possible to mute and walk away or even TP out? You can do this to anyone anytime you want. Really this type of situation is up to the staff or owner of the venue to take action against. They should have ejected/banned the person if other patrons were disgusted and annoyed and they were aware of what was happening. Did you complain to the staff or owner about it?

As far as what LL will do it depends on how they view it. It may have been disgusting and irritating to you and some others but I doubt they will look at it as griefing as no one was really harmed by it other than it being unpleasant. It also depends on what their 'record' is as to what punishment, if any, they decide to dish out.

IMO bans should be limited to actual and specific violations of terms of service and actual griefing not just because someone got annoyed or disgusted at what amounts to a disgusting and crude joke and complained.

Marigold Devin · March 17, 2013

Being urinated on is never a pleasant experience, unless a person is into that kind of thing, of course, and I take it you weren't on that type of sim!

If everyone submits an abuse report against someone who acts in such a disrespectful manner, then I am sure LL will act on it, BUT this will not take precedence over abuse reports that are already being acted on which have to take priority, ie those where servers are being put at risk, or if there is possible incidences against minors, or gambling.

Linden Lab will expect people to be able to, in the meantime, mute/block and generally ignore the individual doing the griefing, which I know is not always easy, especially to those of a particularly sensitive nature or to new people who can be rather taken aback by such lewd crude activity.

However, if no one responded to griefers, if everyone just ignored them, they would go away permanently once they got bored. They only return because they can, because everyone shrieks at them, threatens to AR them, and basically feeds them with the attention they are seeking.

Even if you feel that Linden Lab are not going to act, you and others MUST continue to submit abuse reports, otherwise Linden Lab will definitely not act, because they will not know about the incidents that are occurring within world.

I am sorry I cannot offer you anything more appeasing than this advice, but please be grateful that this is only happening in a virtual world, and imagine how much awful it would be if someone were going around in real life urinating all over everyone.

2.9k · March 17, 2013

is harassment what that guy was doing. is AR'able

he was probably way off his skull on drugs and/or alcohol the whole time RL. probably even singing on voice as well. they all come out on the weekends

+

some people can handle this kinda behavior by themselves for themselves and others present. some cant. for them that cant i just advise them to file the AR. and not worry about it after that. avoid the verbals. block/ban teleport away etc like you say

cant reason with some dude off his skull

edit add: being off your skull is no excuse tho. the guy was greifing

Heart Brimmer · March 17, 2013

greek Wingtips wrote:

Couple of week’s back I wrote about griefers and trolls and people who sole aim is to come

Into SL and cause grief to others, I suggested that LL should take a harder approach with these

Type of persons, but was met with most replies about me being to much of a drama queen

Then the subject goes of its tracks then it then becomes stupid

I think LL should do this; any upheld complaint should be an instant ban for a week

Two complaints 2 weeks, three 1 month.

Yesterday I went to a really nice sim, it was listed on desinations and was so popular

That the sim got full, I was with my partner and as seen in the picture this (thing)

I won’t name as I be in trouble was going around urinating on everyone, now muting

was not possible, walking away was not possible and reasoning with him to stop as many

told him did not stop, he would following everyone around and urinate on them, I stood

my ground to take evindence to create a complaint, most people left the sim, likewise

myself and partner did too, was the only way to get away from this griefer.

My question is this, should this (thing) be allowed to do this after overwhelming

Evidence, he never sought permission to do what he did and also upset many other

Persons,spoiling their enjoyment I know for a fact nothing will be done with this from LL

Dispite me complaining

Why didn't you IM the owner of the SIM and have the offender ejected and banned from the SIM? and like everyone has said, you can choose to tp out or stay and be offended. File the AR and wait, that's all anyone can do.

Guilliaume · March 17, 2013

I do not even see, from this description, how an AR is relevant. Was urinating on people against the rules of the sim? Even if it is not a defined rule and the avatar was causing massive disruption, shouldn't it be up to the sim staff to ban the offender? Linden Lab is not a virtual babysitting service after all and sometimes it is up to sim owners to ensure peace within their sims.

Czari Zenovka · March 17, 2013

16 wrote:

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

I really liked the LL "Police Blotter" back in the day. Individuals were still never notified of what, if any, action was taken in response to an AR but if one knew the day, approximate time, nature of the AR, and the offense - if action *was* taken it was pretty easy to find on the "Blotter."

Iirc, there was some outcry from residents who took exception to the name "Police Blotter" so it was changed to "Incident Report." The last time I looked at it* the most updated "incident" was over a year ago.

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

Heart Brimmer · March 17, 2013

Czari Zenovka wrote:

16 wrote:

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

I really liked the LL "Police Blotter" back in the day. Individuals were still never notified of what, if any, action was taken in response to an AR but if one knew the day, approximate time, nature of the AR, and the offense - if action *was* taken it was pretty easy to find on the "Blotter."

Iirc, there was some outcry from residents who took exception to the name "Police Blotter" so it was changed to "Incident Report." The last time I looked at it* the most updated "incident" was over a year ago.

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

Oh my! I have saved this in my favorites, it might just make for an interesting read for when I'm bored. lol. I agree Czari, they are actually doing this!!!

mikka Luik · March 17, 2013

Wow - never thought I would see that Will make for some very interesting late night reading =^^= Thanks for the link

Marigold Devin · March 17, 2013

Heart Brimmer wrote:

Czari Zenovka wrote:

16 wrote:

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

I really liked the LL "Police Blotter" back in the day. Individuals were still never notified of what, if any, action was taken in response to an AR but if one knew the day, approximate time, nature of the AR, and the offense - if action *was* taken it was pretty easy to find on the "Blotter."

Iirc, there was some outcry from residents who took exception to the name "Police Blotter" so it was changed to "Incident Report." The last time I looked at it* the most updated "incident" was over a year ago.

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

Oh my! I have saved this in my favorites, it might just make for an interesting read for when I'm bored. lol. I agree Czari, they are actually doing this!!!

Excellent! Thanks for letting us know, Czari, that they;'ve reinstated the Incident Reports. I actually am fully in favour of them naming names (and some of the names halfway down that first page look particularly 'fruity'), although I think that LL might rethink that aspect, as some people will wear it as a badge of honour, like being banished to The Cornfield became years ago.

Its been added to my Favourites too.

Ansariel Hiller · March 17, 2013

Guilliaume wrote:

I do not even see, from this description, how an AR is relevant. Was urinating on people against the rules of the sim? Even if it is not a defined rule and the avatar was causing massive disruption, shouldn't it be up to the sim staff to ban the offender? Linden Lab is not a virtual babysitting service after all and sometimes it is up to sim owners to ensure peace within their sims.

LOL! Free shower for everyone!

Tari Landar · March 17, 2013

The lab does handle ARs. I know you might think they don't, and sometimes it sure can seem like they don't, but they do. They just don't always deal with them the way we'd like. We also don't usually know how they handle them.

I agree that the lab should be a bit more pressing on this issue, dealing with ARs in general. But I am glad we have some tools to deal with them ourselves. It can make dealing with the unpleasant, more tolerable.

I do take issue with your idea that any AR ought to equal a 1 week ban from the word go, or any ban right off. I don't agree with it because there are plenty of people in Sl who file false ARs. In doing that they can easily cause as much trouble for someone as a griefer can. If LL didn't investigate each AR and instead threw down the ban hammer right away, THEN dealt with it, those people who like to make issues out of nothing at all, win. How is that any better than dealing with grifers who seem to get away with, well, griefing? Imo, it's not any better. They both equally suck. Believe you me there are plenty of people out there who file ARs for ridiculous reasons, or no reason at all. Be glad they can't cause LL to ban right away, or we'd have an even bigger problem on our hands. There are also people who find certain things to be worthy of an AR that others most definitely don't. Our perceptions will not always be the same as others. Something that majorly annoys the crap out of you,might not be more than a minor nuisance to me. Doesn't make what they're doing right, not by a long shot. But how we view things will vary.

Dillon Levenque · March 17, 2013

Czari Zenovka wrote:

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

Wow, Czari. I don't know whether to laugh or cry after a quick visit to that site (for the record, I was laughing, especially at the objectionable names). That's really pretty amazing stuff, and after reading so many complaints about griefing it's nice to see the Lab going after the griefers. Looked like there was even a copybotter in the mix, or at least someone being hit with a DMCA takedown.

Thanks!

2.9k · March 17, 2013

Czari Zenovka wrote:

16 wrote:

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

I really liked the LL "Police Blotter" back in the day. Individuals were still never notified of what, if any, action was taken in response to an AR but if one knew the day, approximate time, nature of the AR, and the offense - if action *was* taken it was pretty easy to find on the "Blotter."

Iirc, there was some outcry from residents who took exception to the name "Police Blotter" so it was changed to "Incident Report." The last time I looked at it* the most updated "incident" was over a year ago.

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

wow! never ever thought that linden would ever do that again

i been wondering why has been a whole bunch of greifing and trolling inworld these last few days. it hasnt made any sense til you show me this

that list is going to get really long really quickly if they put day olds on it

Perrie Juran · March 17, 2013

Czari Zenovka wrote:

16 wrote:

i don't know what linden will do now. linden never say what actions/sanctions they take against greifers. is their policy not to say anything

I really liked the LL "Police Blotter" back in the day. Individuals were still never notified of what, if any, action was taken in response to an AR but if one knew the day, approximate time, nature of the AR, and the offense - if action *was* taken it was pretty easy to find on the "Blotter."

Iirc, there was some outcry from residents who took exception to the name "Police Blotter" so it was changed to "Incident Report." The last time I looked at it* the most updated "incident" was over a year ago.

*I just pulled up the link to verify my last statement and it looks like Incident Reports have been reinstated WITH the addition of all the information including the resident's name and penalty given. Now THAT leaves me speechless...not that I don't agree with it, but that LL is actually doing this!!!

https://secondlife.com/my/support/incident-reports.php

That is awesome! All in all it does not look like a lot of reports per day.

Very interesting to see that on the current list the longest suspension was for failing to comply with a DCMA notification. That should make the Merchants happy.

It would be interesting to know how many were simply, "no violation, case closed."

My take still is from what I have read and heard over the years that people apply the term Griefing too liberally. In SL it has a specific defined meaning. Being annoying, rude, crude or even under some circumstances obscene is not in and of it self "Griefing." I may not agree with the behaviour but that does not make it griefing.

I might be taking it slightly out of context, but Torley said a few years ago:

"It is a difficult thing that, while life in general appeals to a diversity of people, many people's interests are in conflict. This is also true in Second Life."

Now I am not applying this to Greek's urinating incident. But from the many things I have heard people refer to as Griefing, the vast majority has simply been nothing more or less than conflicts of interest.

I have mixed feelings about the urinating incident. Crude and rude, absolutely. At its very best poor judgement in humour. Whether or not it can be defined as Griefing, I really don't know.

I will totally agree with Heart Brimmer, the SIM or Club owner should have been informed. It would be their right to decide if this type of behaviour should be allowed in their place. If the SIM or Club owner chose to allow it, I don't think it could then be defined as Griefing.

Six Igaly · March 17, 2013

Perrie Juran wrote:

I have mixed feelings about the urinating incident. Crude and rude, absolutely. At its very best poor judgement in humour. Whether or not it can be defined as Griefing, I really don't know.

For me (if it is right or not I don't know) griefing is only then when people do things I did not ask for on MY land. And if I am somewhere else and the same things are happening then I just think it is annoying behavior and / or harassment.

Marigold Devin · March 17, 2013