Note to SIM/Club owners about staff who abuse their eject power...They are costing you money

[Sinsationalyurs]

Today at a SIM I was rather rudely approached by an employee who's approach was "You know tails aren't allowed here"  no hellos or please first.  She demanded I remove it.  Didn't identify herself as staff.  Nothing.  Before I had a chance to do so I was ejected.  I was engaged in a conversation so I couldn't drop and give her what she demanded.  To be honest I didn't catch that in the rule card I was given originally but re-read it and she was correct. 

I removed the "offending tail" and returned. 

But noticed the SIM was way below its donations to make operating expenses for this month.  85% from being in the black.

My avi isn't new and I spend quite a bit of money on it, and it shows.  Too much my husband says LOL.

My point....SL is a luxury and SIMS/Clubs are closing daily.  So being tolerant and treating people with respect will keep people coming into your clubs and people who spend money returning.  I know its your rules your club but without the money we as club goers spend there is no club.

Might want to remind the staff to interpret  the rules with a grain of salt and to treat people with respect...or they may not have a job or you may not have a SIM.

 

Have a happy and profitable SL

 

 

 

[solstyse]

maybe you should talk to the employee's "manager." There are two things about your experience that really make me wonder if the sim owner knows what's going on.

1. you were willing to remove the tail, but got ejected before you got a chance. if I owned the club, I'd feel the need to tell the employee to give people a bit of time before ejecting anyone.

2. since it's a club, and the point is to make money, or at least break even, maybe it's time for the owner to consider allowing a more diverse group in. Soe people are against tails and other furry accessories because they feel that seeing them takes away from a certain feel of realism that they're trying to create. Others, welol, maybe have had a bad experience or two. But any club that's bringing in so far under budget should start evaluating it's policies.

[madman626 Fall]

OK me havening a club before I can tell you a few things about clubs what you think don't matter sorry but true,,,there a ton of club out there if you don't like how one does you ,, clubs are money pits they don't make a dime from it only the staff do from tips for most club , so don't think you making a big different beefing there or not that really just up to you,, you not paying anything close to what it cost to run a club and by the way what the staff say goes less you log the chat and show the the boss wish most likely get you ban from the club either way,, the staff was only doing what they are told to do and go by the rules,, so you have 2 thing you can do deal with rude staff or go eles where .

[beethros Karas]

Hello there!

Im sorry i couldnt keep my 2 cents out of this.

Yes! i agree 100% with what you said.

What it really amazes me in SL is the fact that places who have rules are full and others who are free to use and have no rules are empty..

Of course its all about money..

A free to use Club usually doesnt pay! (tips only) and doesnt demand anything..

Therefore and its less crowded than a club who pays L$2000 minimum fee per HOUR to singers.( I know singers aksing double and triple than that)

And then they  have manager's fee, host's fee, prizes, rent, machines, materials etc...

simple logic.

I can be in that owners mind:

"I pay my huge money and i do whatever i want! i EJECT people in a jiffy! "

lol..

isnt that peety though?

I mean, im sure in SL are so many people who really like to enjoy life in a "free" condition

and more without to be forced to tip or to be spammed with huge local chat gesture emoticons and they cant.

Just because those little small cute clubs are nowhere, they dont exist since they cant advertise them selfs and they close one by one, slowly slowly, day by day...

I could add for a "finale" the following:

We all should search more and visit more places... Exploring is fun in everyway!

and im sure Life will be better

 

Long Live small cute clubs,

Long Live Free world,

Long Live Second Life!

 

Thanks for the chance to make me post this,

beet.

 

 

[Miserlie]

Ehh.. Not to seem rude, but it is their club if the tail was mesh and running a script it could cause land impact to rise.

I just wish they would have gave you more time. But if you want to keep your tail on go to another club thats all down with it. :matte-motes-asleep-2:

[Sidnella Riler]

Find another club, but first message the sim/parcel owner and tell him/her why his club sucks, and that employees are rude and most probably will cost him to loose his sim/club

Hugz

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Madman626 Fall wrote: "the staff was only doing what they are told to do and go by the rules,, so you have 2 thing you can do deal with rude staff or go eles where ."

It doesn't matter, if a club is a money pit or a gold mine, rude staff behavior is simply unacceptable.
Remember, good manners are free, but worth an elephant's weight in gold.

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

I agree with 95% of what you said, except for these two points. (my replies in bold)

 

"I know its your rules your club but without the money we as club goers spend there is no club."

This is false for a great many clubs. Few clubs can, and do, rely on the payment from visitors to keep going, very few. They are open because the owners front the dough. Yes a lot do ask for donations. Most never get even what anyone would consider a drop in the bucket, definitely nowhere near an actual tier cost for the month. Even some of the most heavily visited and always busy clubs don't get squat in "donations". So you actually have this one a bit backwards. Without the owner fronting up money for that place(including ALL costs), you wouldn't have a club to visit. Most club goers do not donate to clubs. I'd say roughly(estimate on my part, I may be being very generous on my estimate-and probably am) half will ever actually donate a linden to the club itself. Tips to djs, performers, hosts and such aren't considered in that when they don't split that with the venue-and most don't. So it really is not the club goers that financially keep a place going. They may be what the owner needs as far as physical presence to have the desire to keep a club going, but they most certainly do not financially support it much less keep it afloat. Often times too the ones you see with donation/tip jars out, have staff that put money in there. More times than not, that's the case.

"Might want to remind the staff to interpret  the rules with a grain of salt and to treat people with respect...or they may not have a job or you may not have a SIM."

This sort of goes hand in hand with the above. Again yes patrons are needed, but without the club owner and staff, you woudn't have somewhere to visit, either, lol. Both are a necessity for a good club. However it's the first part of this one that strikes me odd. Why would the staff interpret the rules with a grain of salt? Hopefully I am just misunderstanding you. Because I personally feel that rules are rules are rules. Staff know them, and understand them. They MUST abide by them and enforce them as written, not as they so choose. Unless of course given permission to enforce at their own discretion, but in these days most club owners no longer offer that to staff. Patrons take advantage of it too often. It is a strict "know the rules, understand the rules, follow the rules and enforce the rules... or find a new job" way of thinking. I won't judge whether it's right or wrong, because I believe land owners, club owners, whatever, have a right to set forth whatever rules they want. Providing they stay within TOS. So I would NOT want to go to a club where the staff was able to enforce rules at will, and not enforce others at will. I've seen what happens in that case. And those places, rarely last long.

That said I don't believe any staff member anywhere ought to be rude to people, ever. Even if patrons give them cause to be(not that you did). I do believe offering ample time to make changes if you're wearing something you shouldn't, or breaking some other rule you need to be warned about ought to be afforded whenever possible. I also know sometimes, it's not possible. I do wonder how long you had from the time you read the notecard and missed the "no tails" policy before you were warned. But I am guessing you don't think that part matters-so we'll agree to disagree on that. Most places that give you rules either in notecard or signage ask you to read either before, or upon entering. They do that so that they CAN enforce the rules from the word go. Now if it were me, I'd offer a little more time. I would not have ejected right away. But I still would have told you from the moment you walked in, or the moment you started taking too long to follow the rules, tails are not permitted. I would also likely send you a copy of the rules. Because you were expected to read them, and I would only be able to guess you hadn't, if you were still not abiding by them after a few minutes of being there. That doesn't make you a bad person, or give me room to be rude. But I would certainly be strict with my enforcement of the rules. It does give me room to eject at will, if my boss says I am supposed to. That's another thing too, staff have rules as well. Things they have to do, must absolutely do, if rules are broken. There isn't always much wiggle room for them. Still no need to be rude. But even an eject after waiting ample time for someone to read and follow rules, will be seen as rude by some people.

I'm not sure why you mentioned spending a lot of money on your av. It's irrelevant to the topic. Actually, even if you donated a lot of money to this venue, it would be irrelevant. I also have to say you most certainly can drop a conversation to follow the rules of a venue. If you choose not to, you have absolutely no cause for complaint. Your conversation partner can wait the few seconds it will take you to detach a tail. I can't imagine anyone you'd be speaking to at that moment would take issue with it. In fact they may not even notice you had taken a few seconds away from the conversation to do so.

Again, so it doesn't come across as if I am being mean, because I am not, just adding another perspective...

I don't believe any staff member ought to ever be rude to a patron. There are ways to handle things and I wouldn't have likely handled it the way this person did. You would have at least gotten a hi from me. I might or might not have identified myself as staff, because I'd likely have a tag on that says I am(and if you don't have tags showing, that is not their fault). But I would have greeted you first. If you'd been there for some time, or waited more than a couple minutes after I asked you to remove(and I would ASK not demand) and/or told me you didn't have a few seconds to remove your tail, I would have ejected you too. I would have told you to please come back when you're ready to comply with the rules, or at least not so busy that you could take the time to read them. It wouldn't be rude in the least. I'd simply be doing my job. It's not always what we say, but also how. So that would beimportant for me as well. Even if i had to be strict as hell, I'd do my best to be polite as I could when doing it.

 

[jwenting]

places with no rules are havens for griefers, spammers, scammers, only thing you're likely to get there is abuse and harassment.

That's why succcessful sims have rules and actively enforce them.

And of course,a lot of people seek people with similar interests to associate with.

Looks to me like OP was actively looking to cause trouble and get kicked out before he was able to pull it off, and that's what he's angry about.

[jwenting]

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Miserlie wrote:

Ehh.. Not to seem rude, but it is their club if the tail was mesh and running a script it could cause land impact to rise.

I just wish they would have gave you more time. But if you want to keep your tail on go to another club thats all down with it. :matte-motes-asleep-2:

---

it's nothing to do with land impact, it's to do with maintaining the theme of the place. There's plenty of sims that require tails because they're exclusively for furries and/or nekos.

[solstyse]

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jwenting wrote:

places with no rules are havens for griefers, spammers, scammers, only thing you're likely to get there is abuse and harassment.

That's why succcessful sims have rules and actively enforce them.

And of course,a lot of people seek people with similar interests to associate with.

Looks to me like OP was actively looking to cause trouble and get kicked out before he was able to pull it off, and that's what he's angry about.

---

Based only on what I read here, I see the OPO's offense as being unintentional. She did admit that it was in the notecard, but she missed it the first time looking. I nterpreted the post much differently than you. I saw it as an "oops.": but then again, I personally run sl on a couple of machines, using a couple of operating sytstems, and the behavior of one can affect my next login. I've had viewers that allow too few clothing layers make me think on my nexdt login on a different viewer that my clothes were taking forever to bake, when I was actually inadvertently naked. I've also had the opposite. That my viewer would not render the clothing that other people assured me i was in fact wearing. I've also gotten flooded with notecards and annoucements that i should have read closer than I did. So I can definitely see how the OP could have simply made a mistake.

I think Imma test made the best post in this forum. That the OP's mistake could not be ignored, but that better ways to deal with it do exist.

[Reikokimyo]

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Seems to me the OP was willing to comply, and did later.  If the club staff member had been reasonable, letting the OP know who they were and had given enough time for OP to comply, I dont think this thread would have been made.

 

I have seen places that have had rules that were enforced, some remained popular and some went away fairly quickly.  Of the places I have seen that went away quickly, a lot of it has come down to poor management (either not doing anything or being to quick to eject).  I wouldnt imagine that the place mentioned in the OP will last long if OP's experience is how the club is normally managed.

[Nuhai Ling]

What you are describing here is defined as good customer service and the reality of the matter is that most sim / business owners know very little about it, at least to start. Those of us that care take the time to train our staff on how to respond politely, fairly, and most importantly consistently.

The next time something like this happens to you, send a short message to the owner describing what happened and then decide if the grievance was bad enough never to return again. The owner may have lost your business but until he knows something is going wrong they won't be able to correct the situation (if they want to).

Also realize that one of the golden rules of SL - that there is a real person behind the avatar - is being overlooked more and more as the grid's population declines and fewer older residents remain to teach the new ones. I have seen this "syndrome" destroy many places including a once-popular sim I helped manage for years. When it was sold, the new owner and his very questionable staff ran off all the former employees and collapsed visitation down to nearly nothing. Only lately has it started to recover by enticing new residents with paltry activities that the former owners would have considered obscene. His inability to understand that residents are not game-produced bots continues to plague his attempts to entice more traffic and usually just makes him sound like an a**.

Don't be discouraged, just look for the places that have well trained staff and good customer service. Remember too one other SL golden rule - have fun! You get enough drama in RL without having to deal with it in your virtual life! :matte-motes-big-grin:

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

I agree with the principle, but not the wording. The owner set rules, and has every right to do so. He or she may have NO IDEA how his or her staff enforce those rules. Messaging the owner saying that their club sucks would be rude and possibly untrue. The OP states that they went back, which seems to implicate that they enjoy their time there.

Personally, I would send a polite IM or notecard to the owner explaining the situation as I saw it - I was approached with no hello or anything and ordered to remove an attachment, then not given the time to do so before being ejected from the sim. Simple, to the point. The sim owner might side with his or her staff and say nothing to them; or they may politely let the staff know that they should be nicer to guests and give them time to comply with the rules before summarily ejecting people. An IM could also be sent to the rude staff member, very politely apologizing for breaking the rules and mentioning that the OP would have complied if given the time to do so.

I would guess that this place frequently has visitors who don't care about the rules. The staff may be used to people completely disregarding the rules, and thus not willing to give visitors the benefit of the doubt. 

The OP has the option of going back, or finding another club - there are a plethora to choose from.

 

 

[Guilliaume]

FYI, most clubs run in deficets. It is rare to find a club that doesn't. Clubs in Second life are more like hobbys to their owners rather than actual businesses and at that point, who cares about customer service?

[Jennifer Boyle]

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madman626 Fall wrote:

OK me havening a club before I can tell you a few things about clubs what you think don't matter sorry but true,,,there a ton of club out there if you don't like how one does you ,, clubs are money pits they don't make a dime from it only the staff do from tips for most club , so don't think you making a big different beefing there or not that really just up to you,, you not paying anything close to what it cost to run a club and by the way what the staff say goes less you log the chat and show the the boss wish most likely get you ban from the club either way,, the staff was only doing what they are told to do and go by the rules,, so you have 2 thing you can do deal with rude staff or go eles where .

---

  It never hurts to be polite and it costs nothing.  Wise proprieters in any life are always polite to customers. Presumably, the owner wants whatever help customers will give toward expenses.

[LepreKhaun]

---

Sinsationalyurs wrote:

Today at a SIM I was rather rudely approached by an employee who's approach was "You know tails aren't allowed here"  no hellos or please first.  She demanded I remove it.  Didn't identify herself as staff.  Nothing.  Before I had a chance to do so I was ejected.  I was engaged in a conversation so I couldn't drop and give her what she demanded.  To be honest I didn't catch that in the rule card I was given originally but re-read it and she was correct. 

,,,

 

So, basically, you didn't pay attention to the rules that someone spent time, thought and energy writing, and instead of doing a two-click removal of the offending attachment when told to, decided to continue your conversation because they didn't introduce themselves to your satisfaction. Does that sum it up?

Lucky you weren't banned for your rudeness.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I will start by saying that all people should be treated with respect and politeness but I think more went on here than that.

Just because you have spent a lot on your avi has nothing to do with the club.  A lot people in SL have spent a lot on their avi,  It doesn't make you more valuable or special.  The fact that you had to put that in your post tells me that maybe you think you are.

You got the rules on landing and apparently didn't think they were important enough to read thoroughly.  You then were asked to remove something that was against the rules and didn't, instead you continued your conversation. That was rude of you.

I am sure the staff member had a tag on or they wouldn't have been able to eject you, so they didn't need to identify themselves as staff.  Removing the tail would have taken 2 seconds at most and would not have interrupted your conversation. Staff in a busy club do not have time to stand around and wait on you to act at your convenience.

Maybe you were treated rudely, and maybe not.  We only have your side of the story.  I will point out though that when I owned my two clubs, every person that was ejected for not following the rules that wanted to object always complained to me that the staff was rude as their first defense for not complying  immediately when asked. Most people also feel that they were treated rudely anytime they were ejected no matter how polite the staff was. You may be very surprised to know how many other guests are frequently the ones to complain to staff when they see someone not following the dress code or otherwise breaking the rules. If a guest complies with the rules they want to see other guests do the same.

You entered someone else's venue to be entertained for free and did not have the courtesy to read and follow the rules. You were given the courtesy of a warning and a chance to comply before you were ejected.  You didn't. The staff was doing their job when they ejected you. 

As far as your economic impact on a club if  you don't return or choose not to donate, that is negligible.  All clubs, even the most popular, are financed mainly out of the owner's pocket. It is rare that any club gets anything but a small percentage of donations towards expenses. So the 15% they had collected is about normal and no reflection on the club.

 

 

[solstyse]

It seems that you and i read the op completely opposite. What you're calling rudeness, I'm calling an honest mistake. We've al made them. But I think that the point that the OP was trying to make is that when mistakes happen, there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with it.

If the OP had been banned, as you suggest, then that's one person who has no chance to ever make a donatioin, and will likely tell several others not to frequent the club. On the other hand, since she did re-read and comply, I'd have to say that the employee handled the situation in a way that very few sim owners would want. Since she re-read, complied, and went back, I'm given the impression that the op actually likes the club and wants it to succeed, that she sees that emp0loyee as someone who may be detrimental to the continued existance of the club. If I'm right, then the only real fix is to notify the sim owner of what happened.

After all, even if it is just a hobby, it won't be any fun if there ar3en't any guests. What the OP seems to want to do is give an opportunity to the owner to fix what's wrong.

I'd say tht a fair way to handle it would have been fort the employee to give a proper introduction, and point out that there is a rule in the NC about not wearing tails. Then give a period of ten minutes to comply, or two local posts, whichever happens sooner before ejecting. Maybe that is how it went. We only have one side of the story. But from what I read, it seems like almost no time was given.

[LepreKhaun]

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solstyse wrote:

It seems that you and i read the op completely opposite. What you're calling rudeness, I'm calling an honest mistake. We've al made them. But I think that the point that the OP was trying to make is that when mistakes happen, there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with it.

If the OP had been banned, as you suggest, then that's one person who has no chance to ever make a donatioin, and will likely tell several others not to frequent the club. On the other hand, since she did re-read and comply, I'd have to say that the employee handled the situation in a way that very few sim owners would want. Since she re-read, complied, and went back, I'm given the impression that the op actually likes the club and wants it to succeed, that she sees that emp0loyee as someone who may be detrimental to the continued existance of the club. If I'm right, then the only real fix is to notify the sim owner of what happened.

After all, even if it is just a hobby, it won't be any fun if there ar3en't any guests. What the OP seems to want to do is give an opportunity to the owner to fix what's wrong.

I'd say tht a fair way to handle it would have been fort the employee to give a proper introduction, and point out that there is a rule in the NC about not wearing tails. Then give a period of ten minutes to comply, or two local posts, whichever happens sooner before ejecting. Maybe that is how it went. We only have one side of the story. But from what I read, it seems like almost no time was given.

---

It all boils down to respect. The OP disrespected the club in not reading their rules, which is rude. They then disrespected the person acting as security in not complying with the request to remove the attachment, apparently choosing to ignore them while they continued a conversation, which is also rude.

I'm not saying they should've been banned, just that they were lucky they weren't. If it had been my club and I had confronted such an attitude, they would've been blacklisted in a heartbeat- if they show such disrespect to my house, how might they treat my other guests?

[ImaTest1488314069]

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solstyse wrote:

I'd say tht a fair way to handle it would have been fort the employee to give a proper introduction, and point out that there is a rule in the NC about not wearing tails. Then give a period of ten minutes to comply, or two local posts, whichever happens sooner before ejecting. Maybe that is how it went. We only have one side of the story. But from what I read, it seems like almost no time was given.

---

Ten minutes is a ridiculously long time frame when the person is right there(so not afk) and it takes less than a minute to detach. There is also more than one way to detach something, so at least we have options if one way isn't working. They're perfectly capable of doing it much faster than that, even on a laggy machine. If not possible-because things happen-, the patron ought to leave anyway, so they can comply and return. They shouldn't wait around for an eject. or they could simply tell the staff member they are trying to comly so they know. I also don't believe staff has to always introduce themselves as staff. Sure they can, and probably a decent amount do. But I don't think it's necessary. Not when staff has to wear a tag(and as already pointed out, wouldn't have been able to eject without wearing said tag). As for warnings in local, I don't think most clubs want their staff doing that. It's singling someone out, whether their actions(the patron's) are intentional or not. That sort of singling out usually backfires and makes people feel worse. So I would never suggest a staff member ought to issue warnings of any sort in local unless they absolutely must. It would be a last resort for me.

I am guessing, also because we only have one side, that there was actually time to comply, or the OP would not have mentioned not being able to stop a current conversation to "bend to the staff's needs". It wouldn't make much sense to say that unless you were already given a few minutes and the staff member seemed impatient. I don't think staff would be impatient within the first minute or so. Though, that's always a possibility too, it seems less likely in this scenario as it was presented. Then again as with anything there are always two sides and the truth probably sits dead center between them. I won't discount the possibility that both people were rude to some degree in this case.

I still stand by what I said earlier in the thread about the fact that no one ought to be being rude to patrons of a venue and there are always better ways at handling something. But I guess I wanted to add that patrons are also held to that standard by me. It's rude to suggest your converations, or whatever else it is you are doing, take priority over following rules and everyone else in the venue. I'm not really certain why that tidbit of the OP is sticking out to me the way it is, but it is. Maybe coupled with the whole "we finance your club" mentality and the "I spend a lot of money in sl" mentality, it just comes across badly to me. It's probably just my poor interpretation of what was meant. At least I hope it is. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about something, lol.

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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solstyse wrote:

It seems that you and i read the op completely opposite. What you're calling rudeness, I'm calling an honest mistake. We've al made them. But I think that the point that the OP was trying to make is that when mistakes happen, there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with it.

If the OP had been banned, as you suggest, then that's one person who has no chance to ever make a donatioin, and will likely tell several others not to frequent the club. On the other hand, since she did re-read and comply, I'd have to say that the employee handled the situation in a way that very few sim owners would want. Since she re-read, complied, and went back, I'm given the impression that the op actually likes the club and wants it to succeed, that she sees that emp0loyee as someone who may be detrimental to the continued existance of the club. If I'm right, then the only real fix is to notify the sim owner of what happened.

After all, even if it is just a hobby, it won't be any fun if there ar3en't any guests. What the OP seems to want to do is give an opportunity to the owner to fix what's wrong.

I'd say tht a fair way to handle it would have been fort the employee to give a proper introduction, and point out that there is a rule in the NC about not wearing tails. Then give a period of ten minutes to comply, or two local posts, whichever happens sooner before ejecting. Maybe that is how it went. We only have one side of the story. But from what I read, it seems like almost no time was given.

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It takes two seconds to detach a tail.  The OP said she didn't comply because she was in a conversation.

Ten minutes is way to long to give and there is no need to tell someone but once.  These are not children that have to be told over and over, these are supposedly adults.  If they are a newb they should be given the time needed as long as you see they are making an effort. Anyone else, that needs more than one warning and 10 minutes before they comply either has no intention of changing or they are deliberately pushing for an eject. If they need that long they need to leave and come back when they are properly dressed.

[Reikokimyo]

I think people are missing the point about the OP, and that is good customer service.  I know I wouldnt be all sunshine and kitties if some random person IMed me and demanded something from me.  If the employee had simply stated that they worked for the club and asked if the tail could be removed as it was against the rules, I think this thread wouldnt exist.

Sometimes people have things going on and cant simply do something within moments.  Maybe OP was trying to figure out who was was making demands or figuring out if they were in fact breaking the rules.  I know in sims I frequent, there are people that feel they need to IM stating that a rule was broken, and are often wrong.  For me, that usually ends up with me trying to figure out who they are, and checking rules to see if I am wrong.  All that takes time.  Though if I know they are a admin there, it does cause me to rectify the situation easier.  Then again, they are professional and see it as part of their job to not only enforce rules, but to also educate people about rules as well.  Ejection would be used only if person diliberately continued to break the rules.

 

OP mentions going back after rereading the rules and fixing the issue.  That tells me that they shouldnt have been ejected and that the issue was the employee and how they handled it.  Sure, maybe the OP could actually see the employee and maybe they did have the proper group tag on, but sometimes group tags arent all that clear.

I think the whole point of the OP is that club employees should be less hostile.  People are more willing to respond to a polite request than a heavy handed approach. 

The good employees at good sims I have gone to usually see themselves as rule educators first and enforcement second.  People usually comply with rules if they are nicely informed that they are breaking one, by someone known to be in a position of authority.  Most people I have seen ejected have been people that already know they are breaking rules and either dont care or want to greif.

[ImaTest1488314069]

I don't think anyone missed that point, since several discussed it. I haven't seen anyone yet say rude behavior ought to be tolerated.

I disagree that the OP had only one point to make, the possibly rude way a staff member made contact. Even if it was the intention to only make one, more than one point was addressed, and discussed. I think a lot can be learned discussing these kinds of things and how others would handle them.

[Christin73]

Too many rules takes all the fun out of a sim  or club. I have seen where newbies TP into a place not knowing the rules. They get read the riot act for something they have no idea what. As a club Manager If there is a rule violation or concern I take it in IM and simply exlain the rule. Its not cool when someone is chewd out in local chat. Often times Managers/owners get a thick head forgetting they were new once too. I dont go to sims or clubs where their attitude is "its our place we can make our own rules and do what we want and we dont care what others who might use our place thinks". Just dont go there and eventualy the sim/club will dissapear due to lack of visiters.