start asking LL to turn mainland free to play

[Links86]

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

[Tari Landar]

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Links86 wrote:

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

---

Huh? Are you saying they should let people own land on mainland for free? I am guessing that's what you mean. Because you CAN "play" sl for free. Thousands upon thousands do it. You never have to bring one cent into second life to enjoy it.

I guess I just don't understand what it is you're actually asking. Could you please clarify?

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Let's say LL does just that. Immediately:

 

• People that paid real dollars for their mainland parcels (whole mainland sims, in some cases) are the proud owners of land that is now essentially worthless (it can't really be re-sold since it's all now FREE);

and almost just as immediately:

 

• People that rent parcels on private regions decide they'd rather use that money to go out to dinner once more a month instead (after all, why pay to rent a parcel from someone when you can get one for FREE?);

• People that paid real dollars to buy private regions do a cost-benefit analysis and reach the conclusion that paying 295 real USD/month just isn't worth it any more (not when land is FREE for the asking over on the mainland).

How long do you think LL would be able to pay for salaries and server space? I'd wager: not long.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Links86 wrote:

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

---

My gut feeling is you are a gamer that has at some point been a part of SL and returned or are brand new and have no earthly idea that SL is a virtual world with its own micro-economy and not a game.  But since you are speaking of games, WoW, to my knowledge is not free and although EQ came out with a type of free to play model last year, the free play is extremely limited.  Enjoying EQ in its entirety is still on a paid system, so no, the pay to play fee structure is not quite outdated.

[Cerise Sorbet]

---

Links86 wrote:

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

---

Second Life already is free to play, and it became that way pretty early, before most MMOs jumped on the bandwagon.

There are no points or levels, but Linden dollars fill the same role if you think it is fun to "level up". Just like in FTP games, you can get more of those with time and effort. You don't have to spend real world money on cooler toys unless you want to. If you want to grind and not pay, there are contests, games, and inworld jobs. The most skilled "players" can make stuff, and the really good ones can bring in lots of L$ from other people with that stuff. People who don't want to grind can spend real world money and lots of it, but it's simply not required.

[Links86]

My point is that LL can create a new bussines model for Second Life players for exsample for a player who have the 4096 SQM deal lets say that person pays $45 USD a month pluse won't buy more land then he would have to pay more the $50 USD a month that would scare off most of the players of to days shakey real world economy if LL would take out the land size deal for the mainland and the monthly subscription and would find other area of Second Life to make money that would see a mayger population explosion of new and older player comeing back to Second Life

[161488303349]

---

Links86 wrote:

My point is that LL can create a new bussines model for Second Life players for exsample for a player who have the 4096 SQM deal lets say that person pays $45 USD a month pluse won't buy more land then he would have to pay more the $50 USD a month that would scare off most of the players of to days shakey real world economy if LL would take out the land size deal for the mainland and the monthly subscription and would find other area of Second Life to make money that would see a mayger population explosion of new and older player comeing back to Second Life

---

this comes up quite a lot

linden currently get the huge bulk of their income from tier payments. about $5 million each month

if they didnt get this from tiers then what other areas of the game could they get it from? this the hard part to answer

+

examples

1) replace with Premium memberships fee. cost $10 a month for membership fee. 5M / $10 = 500,000. so have to get half a million people to give $10 a month to break even

so how much free land can you claim for this. as much as you want? or would you have to divide it up to be fair?

say is about 5,000 mainland sims at the moment. 5,000 / 500,000 =  ??? how much free land is that each?

2) charge a commission on sales of clothes goods etc

ok. say 10%. if average price was 500L or $2US then 50L or 20c. 5M / 20c = ??? how many things do people have to buy for linden to get 5 million dollars

+

is not reducing tiers or giving free/more land that is the hard part

the hard part is where does the money come from if not from tiers?

 

 

 

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Links86 wrote:

My point is that LL can create a new bussines model for Second Life players for exsample for a player who have the 4096 SQM deal lets say that person pays $45 USD a month pluse won't buy more land then he would have to pay more the $50 USD a month that would scare off most of the players of to days shakey real world economy if LL would take out the land size deal for the mainland and the monthly subscription and would find other area of Second Life to make money that would see a mayger population explosion of new and older player comeing back to Second Life

---

This only makes sense if you can suggest WHERE LL is supposed to get their revenue. From the sounds of it, you have no idea how the economy in SL even works. Where do you propose LL get their profit from, if not tier? Because as it stands, that's the bulk of what keeps SL alive and running, people that pay tier. Yes they make profit off the marketplace and subscriptions-but it's meager compared to what they make off tier payments.

So where do you believe they should make changes so they can increase revenue in that location, allowing them to decrease cost to mainland dwellers?(because that's what I am getting from your proposal.. all mainland be free...everything else not).

It sounds like a nifty idea in your head(and yes I do understand the desire for free), but try putting in some real data, and it doesn't make a lick of sense. It especially makes absolutely no fiscal sense, from their point of view of course.

 

[Kenbro Utu]

LL is basically a hosting provider.  They make their money by what amounts to leasing server space.  This is what land is, so many megabytes on a server harddrive.  There are companies that provide free space such as for photos, etc., but they do so by garnering revenue through advertising and data mining, and the viewers would have advertisments on the screen and follow your internet habits to send you targeted ads.  Not the SL I would want.  

[Melita Magic]

So, even less accountability and sense of community as people come flooding in on a whim? No thanks. Didn't work that well the last time either.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Aside from what other's have said, the mainland would turn into a giant sandbox.  To be fair they'd have to  assign a lot to everyone.  Not sure there is even enough mainland to give anyone a 512sm lot let alone a larger one.  No matter how they did it, people would complain if someone got a lot in a 'better' location than they did.

I like the system the way it is now.  You can choose any amount of land available and have it as long as you are willing to pay for it. 

SL is already free to 'play'.  You don't need land in SL, you don't have to have a home or store.  There are sandboxes available for those that like to create things,  There are plenty of freebies to stock your inventory with at least the basics of what you need. 

LL is not a charity, it's a business. If land were free they'd have to make the money in some way which probably means advertising.  I'd rather pay tiers than see SL commercialized like that.

 

[Knowl Paine]

It could be done.

It would require additional Grandfathering, of a large Group of accounts. (NPIOF)

A dual currency would need to be created.

The current L$ would not be changed.

The second currency would not be convertible.

The second currency could be used to pay Tier.

Merchants, Private Region Owner's, and other Service providers, could decide for themselves, which currency types, and the quantity, they will accept.

All guest accounts, would receive a small weekly stipend.

Inworld, includes MP purchases.

 

A policy needs to be created, for Region owners, which defines their limits, and or, procedure for processing non-coverable L$ into a Tier credit. (That's not my bag)

 

I think that it would reduce L$ scams. Grandfathered accounts, in good standing, could use both L$ types, without piof.

Newly created accounts, would have to have piof, in order to use the standard L$'s.

 

 

New Residents could save their stipend, and rent their own land, or exchange the l$ with others through various means, as people do. They could buy tools that help in creation, populate open land, or rentals, build and provide atmosphere.

For the Residents who provide the Party, they can get some justifiable relief in Tier. If a Resident is cashing ( makingTeir credit requests) out for thousand of l$ using their PIOF account, or Grandfathered npiof, they are either helping a lot of new people, or ripping them off. Send an if query, for Abuse Reports, before allowing to continue.

 

I might be crazy, idk

 

[solstyse]

Not even opensim gives land away. That's something to think about. Plus there is the fact that tier is LL's big cash cow.

Honestly, what I wish LL would do is release their latest analysis about where they should set tier prices for maximum profitability. The tier rates do seem high, and the charts I've seen about loss of land seems compelling.

However, I think that if LL would do such an analysis today, then while tier could drop a bit in price, then it would still be significantly higher than the $50 to host an opensim land. The truth is that while those of us who ren't renting and subletting large parcels complain about tier, there are still enough people who can and do pay to keep the grid alive.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Links86 wrote:

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

---

LOL!!   Oh...these types of comments just never get old! 

 

teehee...

[161488303349]

is not as crazy as it might sound at first. a second type of currency as well

+

i was chat one time to some people RL about the  problem of asset explosion in a UGC world like SL. and the redundancy that happens when stuff is everlasting

one of the thoughts which we end up discuss quite a lot was green dollars (GD)

+

like when you start is free to play and you get a inventory library of stuff like normal

then you go through your inventory and deconstruct/delete what you dont want or use. like say you got a 512 texture. then when delete it deconstruct to say 5GD. a 10 second sound deconstruct to say 10GD.  if you got a 100 prim shoes then deconstruct to 100GD. how much each is actual worth can be worked out exactly somehow. am just chat about the principle for now

+

so what happens is that when you buy/get stuff off someone else then say is 100 prims then pay the L$ price 0 or whatever it is and you have to give them 100GD as well. in exchange. or even better the creator can also set a GD sale price as well if they want. like buy this made of 50GD but bc i put a lot of work into it then you have to give/pay me 100 or 200GD for it

if you havent got enough GD then either have to delete/deconstruct more stuff or buy extra GDs on the GreenX exchange. can also sell your excess GDs on the exchange also

GDs then have a tangible value convertible to L$ or US$

+

the main effect tho is that it would ameliorate asset explosion which is virtually unlimited and free of charge in the way SL say is set up now

so a new player could play with the same GD forever or less even than when they first start. but they cant go round just loading up on free stuff without making hard decisions about their footprint and the costs they incur paid for by the other residents

is like inventory limits. except that you can get paid for all the stuff you dont want or need anymore

and if you been playing a long time then GD will encourage you to deconstruct stuff you dont actual use bc when you do deconstruct then can reuse the GDs released by this. to buy newer more recent more fresher content and stuff

 

 +

the chilling effect tho is on shopkeepers and merchants. like notecards or even landmarks. bc they cost 1GD each 

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Interesting but .

Land tier is one of the biggest income streams LL has and I'm sure MP commission is another.  A commission of play money is not earning money.  There has to be some basis of value for L's in RL for fees and commission paid in L's to be worth anything.  So,  how would they make their money other than start selling Pepsi ad space either in world or on your screen.  Something most residents don't want to see. I'd rather pay tiers.

Second, how would inworld businesses be handled? There would be no incentive for estate owners to keep their sims. And will merchants get a bigger stipend to cover tiers stores? I doubt it.  Many merchants  would be loath to accept the play money unless the amount over their tier and other in world expenses could be  cashed out to use for RL money.  Yet if they don't accept the play money they are limiting their market severely so that is not practical.  Not much incentive to stay open then and many would close up.

So, LL issues 500 in play money with no value, it circulates in SL and a merchant collects 10K of it, then cashes out.  Who pays the RL money?  Right now it is the money market, but play L's couldn't be and wouldn't be a part of that.   You can't exchange play L's for real L's or RL money.  The market would collapse.  It would be the same as if Monopoly money could be exchanged for RL money in the RL money market. 

 

[Nova Convair]

The OP is a "I want everything for free and don't care who pays the bills" post.

No thought in this one too since it will crash the business model of SL.

Acknowleged, laughed, next

 

[Knowl Paine]

I like the idea for an incentive to reduce inventory (data). 

I don't think the incentive should be monetized. 

[Knowl Paine]

The idea (mine) may be a bit premature. :matte-motes-angry: :matte-motes-big-grin:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Coby Foden]

---

Links86 wrote:

 ... and yet still make money some where easle ...

---

If all land was free, do you have any good ideas to share with us where the money would flow to Linden Lab to pay for their hardware, office space and salaries for their employees to feed their families?

  ... hey, we need the cash to run this system.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Links86 wrote:

My point is that LL can create a new bussines model for Second Life players for exsample for a player who have the 4096 SQM deal lets say that person pays $45 USD a month pluse won't buy more land then he would have to pay more the $50 USD a month that would scare off most of the players of to days shakey real world economy if LL would take out the land size deal for the mainland and the monthly subscription and would find other area of Second Life to make money that would see a mayger population explosion of new and older player comeing back to Second Life

---

Tosses you some periods and spell checker. 

YW

[Links86]

LL could still make money off the Sims and buying and selling linden dollars also could charge a small sales commission fee on xstreet marketplace that's how they can still produce revenue for the Labs and if they would do that meaning lower cost to the game meaning more company profit and still allow SL players still make money off of every from land to the content people make that's how you can create a healthy environment for the player and the labs this is my point

[Morgaine Christensen]

Why would LL want to turn mainland into "free" to play when it  is how they make their money?  You say "make money where easle"....I don't see you offering other methods for them to "make money"?

I think you are going to find that the "pay to play model" is not outdated nor, will it ever be.  It is too lucritive.  And, most of the "free" games are not free when all is said and done since there is generally a pricing structure for someone even if it is for the supporting advertiser.  Generally, "free" games you speak of are boring, have limited content, limited freedom to be unique, and uber repetitive, etc.

Accounts have always been "free"  in SL if you wanted one. The only time a monthly/quarterly/yearly fee becomes relevant is if you wish to participate in the perk of being able to own land. No one asks or begs you to be a premium member or land owner.   It's not like WOW or other games where you have to buy the initial game/upgrades and pay a monthy membership fees to play....that that is not "pay for play" I don't know what is.   With SL ,You can just create an account, download, and play.  You have no restrictions other than where you can go if you do not verify your age nor, can  you own land....even then you can "rent" land.  I think it a damn good deal for free.

Why do you want Mainland to be "free"?  What would you do with it if it were "free" to everyone?    Why do you feel you or anyone is entiled to "free" land?  Why should my monthly subscription fee (premium membership) allow you and your non-subscription  "free" account access to mainland free play? Can't you afford a premium account and/or pay tier to get your own piece of land yourself to do what you envision?

Besides, SL is not a game per se; thus, does not really fit the usual "gaming" model..  It is more a social networking type platform...yet, it is not really.  .  There are no set goals like traditional games.  There is no ending.  There are no challenges or barriers to overcome to proceed toward the end point (okay...LAG is a barrier..sorry).  99.9 of the in-world content is created and implemented by residents.   What "games" do you know of that allows user content to be part of a "game"?   Have you ever noticed how "ad free" Second Life is compared to those "free" games?

I think SL is just fine the way it is regarding "free".  If you want land to play on, cough up the premium account and tier  payment like  the rest of us do then you can do what you want.  Personally, I don't feel like my subscription and tier payment should be used for "mainland free to play" because you feel you are entitled to "free".  Besides, you already have free play now, go to a sandbox.  Or, I am sure Farmville or some other "free" game is waiting for you. 

 

 

[Ciaran Laval]

I agree with you that the pay to play model for MMO's is dead in the water and I would like to see LL do something about tier which is way too high to be a sustainable business model going forwards, we lost 12% of private regions in 2012.

However, they already charge commission on buying and selling Linden Dollars, so how exactly are LL going to get from where they are now, with tier being the backbone of their business model, to a position whereby they can slash tier or make land available for free, it has to be paid for somehow.

[Malanya]

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Links86 wrote:

 Because now these days pay to play games are becomeing out of date business modle more infavor of free to play games meaning LL should take the land size monthly subscription fees and turn the mainland free to play that how they can see a big population explosion of new and old player to come to Second Life and yet still make money some where easle

---

Not to sound rude, but does most of the sl population (newbies & oldbies) realize that thousands of people, such as myself, spend thousands of USD a month and time creating and maintaining sims for others to enjoy for FREE? I came back to sl after a few years and it's still the same, the more you do for people the more they want and the more entitled they feel to control what you create (don't take this wrong, I know there are many who appreciate what others do as well as I appreciate content creators that create for me to buy, support and enjoy what they contribute). I actually enjoy creating spaces for people to enjoy at no charge to them, and no pressure to donate to upkeep my areas. I keep running across more and more people that think because they are on a public sim that any covenant that is imposed means nothing. Guess what, someone built that, bought everything you play with there and took the time to put it together. I do what I can for the sl community because I can give back to those who don't want to pay to play or can't afford to. It's getting harder by the day though when the FREE this and that is so common thinking and the people that tell you to F off on your sim while they are breaking the covenant you have the right to set. I still have the mindset that people in general are kind so that's what keeps me doing this. Sorry for the rant, but honestly it seems people just don't care what others do to make sl what it is and no, that part is not free.