In need of wise advice for building a computer for the most optimal performance in SL

[Teddy Starsmith]

Greetings fellow SL citizens. I come in peace, so do not fret. Recently, I have gotten sick of depending on laptops for running SL. Not only due to the strain SL usually puts on them, but overheating always finds me one way or another. Even the best of laptops have fallen to the roaring winds of heat fans and dust upon heat sinks from SL's sizziling might! And although I can just learn how to clean out the dust and apply thermal paste, there is still my worry upon the strain SL seems to put on laptops in general, plus I do not wish having to do that too often. So, after a bit of research and talking to a few close associates, I've come to the conclusion that I'll have the least amount of trouble with this game if I play it on a PC. Thus, I've decided to embark on a new adventure by making my first and real serious attempt at building my own PC. I prefer to do this with a budget of 1K, though I can go up to 2K if the situation is dire enough. The following is a list of specs I've gathered so far for the PC I plan to build. Remember, I wish to build one that's at least effective enough to allow me enjoying SL's full potential, minus the lag and other interal issues that I can't help ofc, including whatever Internet connection I'm on, which is cable btw. Please look below and feel free to add to or suggest modifications for the specs I plan to add to the PC so far:

ATA board and drivers

At least an i7 Intel Core Processor and a gtx 980. I'm not sure about the AMD line though. But if anyone has good suggestions on that, I'm very happy to hear em!

Liquid cool or nitrogen liquid cooling for the system

Power Supply doesn't need to be like 1000W. It can be 500W and still be alright with me. I need something though that will last and be reliable in that area though.

Yea...that's all I have ^^ Pathetic, I know. But this is my very first time building one and I have no idea where to even begin. I'd like the processor to be able to run 3.4 Ghz at least with 16 GB of RAM at least. SSD storage technology would be nice too.

I'm not too sure though on what else I need to order in regards to further details on the specs and just other parts I'm needing to add in general. Or if there's any specs I have listed that I need to modify. I'm kinda lost on this to be honest, as much as I hate to say it :/ Anyone have better suggestions? Let me repeat that I'm only wanting to build one that will at least give me the most performance out of SL. Thank you all for your time and I hope to hear back from you guys soon :D

 

Teddanator!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wiked Anton]

i have an i5 with 6 gyg  of memory and a geforce gt9800 graphics and its plenty good enough for sl.........laptops are too small for sl, i learnt that a couple of years ago.....good luck with your project

[Mora Eldritch]

Hiya, I have an i7 with a slower processor, less ram and a slightly slower graphics card and my SL runs very well.

So I would guess you'll have a good time of it.

One thing I'd suggest if you want bells and whistles for SL is a SpaceNavigator. I've had a lot of fun with mine. (These let you flycam through sims etc.) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826154008&name=Mice

[solstyse]

Don't build from scratch. That has gone from being one of the cheapest ways to get a good computer to one of the most expensive. with a budget of $1k, you can buy somethign that's "almost there" and upgrade it with better results, and probably more change left over.

Personally, I'm a big fan of what HP makes. I saw a really nice setup at Staples. $575 for the computer, 20 inch monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers, all in one box. The computer as it comes stock is 6 gigs or ram, upgradable to 8. (that seems small, but I can run FS on Windows 7 and my ram usage seems to top out at 3.8 used out of 6 installed, so the stock ram on the computer I'm talking about is plenty, at least for now.) 500gb hard drive, quad-core amd processor (I forgot the exact speed. Somewhere near 2.2 gigahertz.)  And Windows 7 is laready loaded. That means all of your remaining money can be used for a high end graphics card. From personal experience, I can tall you that the graphics make a bigger difference than almost everything else.

My computer is a HP G42-230. It's a laptop with much, much better specs than the dinosaur of a desktop it replaces. But on anything texture heavy (like most of sl), or any picture editing software, the old desktop still performs better. All because of the dedicated graphics card.

If you already have a lot of the stuff that's included in the computer that I would buy, then maybe spend the $575 on a more powerful "base" computer to start your build. Just need the tower? In that same price range you can find something with 8-10 gigabytes of ram included, upgradable to 16gb or more, a 1tb hard disk.... etc. And still have plenty of money left over to upgrade and make it your own.

But to compare those costs to building one from scratch... The monitor, and Windows 7 will each run you about $200. Then a case, $100. That's half your budget before you even bought any real components! Usually a power supply will be included with the case, but you still have motherboard, chipset, optical drives, hard drives, ram....

Custom computers have gone the way of the custom car anymore. Sure, some people will build from scratch to say they did it. But it's much more worth your money to buy something that has most of what you want, and add the rest. Hope this helps.

[Czari Zenovka]

I'm actually in the market for a new PC myself.  Since my current one was built to my specifications by a small computer shop I initially went to a similar shop to get an idea of pricing for the specs needed for SL so I can use more than 64m draw distance, among other things....lol.  The price quoted was more than I expected from the research I'd done *and* the shop wanted the full price up front, then they would build it.  I can see maybe a down payment but all the money made me a bit wary.

I then began online research for PCs in various stores.  Building one from scratch (or having one built in my case) must truly have gone by the wayside from a money savings perspective.  I found several PCs that had much better specs that what the shop quoted for over $300 less.  And that was just for the box as I don't need a new monitor.

Thank you for your input, solstyse.  I would welcome suggestions for PCs that are running SL well.  For me, this is a major purchase so I want to choose wisely.

[Teddy Starsmith]

Wow! Lots of awesome replies. Thank you so much guys ^^!!!!!!

 

One last question I have though is something I'm most concerned about, especially since I'm in the deep south at the moment and we usually have humid and scortching summers...and that question is what cooling system do you all think would be the best for running something like SL?

 

Thank you all so much for taking the time to provide me with much needed help. I greatly appreciate it I will most certainly take my time to analyze the information here and based off that choose which road to go down on. Have a good night!

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

---

solstyse wrote:

 (that seems small, but I can run FS on Windows 7 and my ram usage seems to top out at 3.8 used out of 6 installed, so the stock ram on the computer I'm talking about is plenty, at least for now.)

---

 

Unless you have a 64-bit OS you can't actually make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Actually it limits at 3 something with a 32 bit OS so that might be why you're seeing it top out.  You didn't indicate one way or the other, so if you already knew that just ignore this :-).

I do agree that building from scratch is far from cost-effective unless you have access to stuff at wholesale prices.

[Diane Holden]

Two years ago I spent $1250 with Newegg for an i7 system, 6G ram, twin 1380 cards, and 1.5 TB hard drive. It does SL very well. I have since upgraded the video to a GTX 460 single ( I have read SL doesn't make use of twin cards very well). The i7 has 3 memory channels so get memory in groups of 3. Also, cache is very important so a new non volitile memory type hard drive would help a lot. Texture loading out of the cache would scream. 

Good luck and have fun,

Diane

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Teddy Starsmith wrote:

One last question I have though is something I'm most concerned about, especially since I'm in the deep south at the moment and we usually have humid and scortching summers...and that question is what cooling system do you all think would be the best for running something like SL?

 

---

I also live in the South where it is still summer.  (Currently 82 degrees F at 7:45 pm)  Even on my ancient desktop PC I have never had any issues with cooling and I'm sure this PC has just a very average fan.  That could be more of a laptop issue; at least most of the people I've heard mention having problems in that area use laptops.

I have my AC on, however - until it cools down significantly and I can open the windows I don't deal with the humidity, at least inside.

 

[Teddy Starsmith]

Howdy!

 

So when you speak of a memory type hard drive, are you referring to SSD hard drives? And if so, I heard there's some hybrids out there somewhere that make us of both hdd and ssd technology, and that hdd drives, although slower, are able to store a lot more. Though, that last part is just a rumor. I'm not for sure. Hm....*ponders* But it seems like you got a really good deal I'll look into it. I suppose the geoforce 9800 series cards work best, no? For sl that is, especially it's picky compalibility in that regard.

[solstyse]

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

---

solstyse wrote:

 (that seems small, but I can run FS on Windows 7 and my ram usage seems to top out at 3.8 used out of 6 installed, so the stock ram on the computer I'm talking about is plenty, at least for now.)

---

 

Unless you have a 64-bit OS you can't actually make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Actually it limits at 3 something with a 32 bit OS so that might be why you're seeing it top out.  You didn't indicate one way or the other, so if you already knew that just ignore this :-).

I do agree that building from scratch is far from cost-effective unless you have access to stuff at wholesale prices.

---

You misunderstand me. My fault. I guess I really didn't explain it well. I mean that I have 6 gigs available, but my usage doesn't go above 3.8 while I'm watching it. It very well might when I'm doing something intense.

Waht i meant for the original poster to get from this, is that you DO want a 64 bit os (which I have.) And that while 4 gigs is dangerously close to what is required by sl, 8 gigs is more than sl is going to require for a long time, so 6 gigs is actually perfect to get a little memory buffer. And I said that because your first instinct is to go for as much ram as you can. But my machine won't render sl any better if i was running 8 gig than the 6 I'm currently running. It is, however, a slight bit better than the 4 gig I was running before I upgraded.

 

[Teddy Starsmith]

Oh, forgot to ask this as well ^^ Whew, on a roll today eh folks?

 

But I was wondering if anyone had any experience using the GeForce GTX 660 Ti with SL? Or at least the GeForce GTX 650 Ti? I've kinda got my eye wandering over those after spending awhile lurking through NVidia's lovely collection. ^^ Prices seem pretty reasonable given the specs. What do y'all think?

[Dillon Levenque]

---

solstyse wrote:

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

---

solstyse wrote:

 (that seems small, but I can run FS on Windows 7 and my ram usage seems to top out at 3.8 used out of 6 installed, so the stock ram on the computer I'm talking about is plenty, at least for now.)

---

 

Unless you have a 64-bit OS you can't actually make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Actually it limits at 3 something with a 32 bit OS so that might be why you're seeing it top out.  You didn't indicate one way or the other, so if you already knew that just ignore this :-).

I do agree that building from scratch is far from cost-effective unless you have access to stuff at wholesale prices.

---

You misunderstand me. My fault. I guess I really didn't explain it well. I mean that I have 6 gigs available, but my usage doesn't go above 3.8 while I'm watching it. It very well might when I'm doing something intense.

Waht i meant for the original poster to get from this, is that you DO want a 64 bit os (which I have.)  

---

 

Because you clearly knew what you were talking about I tried to make it clear you hadn't said anything about  32 v. 64 so I was only throwing that suggestion out there. I only came to know that a 32 bit OS can't use much more than 3 GB fairly recently: within the last year. I look forward to the day I can upgrade. I'm still on the same box I was using four years ago, and it was no great shakes even then.

[solstyse]

Oops. Dillon, I guess it was I that misunderstood you! But anyway, now the original poster knows he needs a 64 bit OS because of us, so some good came of it

[Bree Giffen]

Let's see... you need a processor, a motherboard, ram memory, a power supply,  a case, a hard drive, a cd drive, a video card, and an OS. You may also need a keyboard, a mouse, a monitor, and speakers. Liquid cooling, SSDs, and 16gb ram aren't necessary to run SL fast. If you have money left over you can get those if you really want. I would honestly pour the extra money into upgrading the processor and the video card.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Unless you have a 64-bit OS you can't actually make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Actually it limits at 3 something with a 32 bit OS so that might be why you're seeing it top out. 

---

Not really. Access to memory above 32-bit addressing is just done differently in 32-bit OSs. This trick relies on chipset support, so some old motherboards for 64-bit CPUs still max out at 3.mumble MB while running 32-bit OSs. (For most uses, I'd recommend 32-bit Linux and 64-bit Windows 7--although 32-bit Windows can also address memory above 32-bit address width.)

Whether to buy a stock PC or build from scratch isn't as cut-and-dried as it sounds here. I recently built from scratch, and came to that decision on the basis of price for performance, with Second Life as the main performance-demanding application. I think it was the specific demands of SL that made it so hard (impossible?) to find an off-the-shelf machine that had components in the price-performance "sweet spot" for running this program.

The big thing about the SL viewer is that it's almost single-threaded, and the graphics processing is very intense--far too demanding to run satisfactorily in the CPU. This is why the extra cost of an i7 chip over an upper-midrange i5 could be better spent on the graphics card: Won't gain much from hyperthreading above 4 physical cores, and Intel 4000 graphics will just be wasted.* But the stock i5-based machines I found had either a crappy graphics card the cost of which is wasted when I'd replace it, or no graphics card and a crappy chipset motherboard. Maybe there are exceptions, but I simply couldn't find them.

The OP, however, may not care about optimizing price/performance at this level of granularity. I say that because there's mention of liquid cooling. Now, it may be just me, but I'd still rather have a system that doesn't generate enough heat to justify liquid cooling, and thus get by with a smaller, quieter power supply. (To confess, I nonetheless got one rated for 550W because it was both high-efficiency and very cheap in one of newegg's special deals.)

This obsession with minimizing power and heat dissipation goes out the window at the very high end of graphics cards,** so the OP may do just as well buying an off-the-shelf gaming rig. Still, if it were me, I'd list all the components of that machine, then price them out separately at newegg, looking for opportunities to optimize, mostly by downgrading stuff that's overengineered for the application. If I didn't end up saving enough on individual components, then yeah: I'd sure buy it off-the-shelf.

---

*But does anybody have experience running SL with Lucid MVP? My hunch is that it would be as disappointing as SLI or Crossfire for SL, but I have no data for that.

**The nVidia 600 series is much less the power-hungry furnace of the 400 series, with the 500s somewhere in-between, but still, at the high end, they make good electric heaters.

[Dillon Levenque]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Unless you have a 64-bit OS you can't actually make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Actually it limits at 3 something with a 32 bit OS so that might be why you're seeing it top out. 

---

Not really. Access to memory above 32-bit addressing is just done

differently

in 32-bit OSs. This trick relies on chipset support, so some old motherboards for 64-bit CPUs still max out at 3.mumble MB while running 32-bit OSs. (For most uses, I'd recommend 32-bit Linux and 64-bit Windows 7--although 32-bit Windows

can

also address memory above 32-bit address width.)

---

 

Learn something every day, as usual. It didn't look to me (if I understood it correctly) as though that application would be of particular help with running Second Life, though.

[Bree Giffen]

I have a 550ti and it runs on ultra @ 30fps in a crowded welcome area according to viewer 3. I went to an empty ocean sim and the fps went off the scale. I haven't seen any overheating issues through the summer here in California. It does come with a gigantic heatsink and fan.

[Alicia Sautereau]

You only need watercooling if you plan to majorly overclock your cpu & gpu or have money to throw away to reduce the noise of 3 gpu`s acting like a jet engine

[Solar Legion]

Call me old fashioned but ....

Until Microsoft comes out with an OS based more off of XP's setup (and I hear that it is in the works .... they had enough gamers that hated Vista/7 that they finally decided to listen to them), I do not have any plans to use Vista/7 or a 64 bit OS. 32 bit applications sometimes have a fit when being run on such a system.

The revelation that SL does not properly use Crossfire or SLI type setups does change my desired build a bit however ...

I have applications either directly loaded onto my 1TB external Western Digital HDD or their installers which pitch a bloody fit if one tries to use them on a 64vit OS - this is yet another factor for me. There are no 64bit equivalent programs/versions for these applications as well.

Chief among these ... the application and setup I used for DJing (I don't DJ much these days as, so far as I am aware, the plugin for Mic input into the stream does not accept USB setups for headsets) absolutely hates 64vit OSes. It will crash when I go to close it and lose my settings. And no - I won't use SAM as my music library is not exclusively mp3.

A 64bit OS is ideal for some of my other gaming needs ... but again, it would hamper other applications.

Build around your needs ... that's all I can offer.

[Nyll Bergbahn]

---

Teddy Starsmith wrote:

Oh, forgot to ask this as well ^^ Whew, on a roll today eh folks?

 But I was wondering if anyone had any experience using the GeForce GTX 660 Ti with SL? Or at least the GeForce GTX 650 Ti? I've kinda got my eye wandering over those after spending awhile lurking through NVidia's lovely collection. ^^ Prices seem pretty reasonable given the specs. What do y'all think?

---

The GTX 660Ti would run SL very well but is not really a good buy no matter who the maker is as it fails on a price/performance basis. The GTX 660 is not far off it in performance and is considerably less expensive. Pricewise, the GTX 660Ti is closer to the GTX 670 but the latter card has far superior performance. Suggestions have been made that Nvidia has dropped the ball on this one and the 660Ti may get squeezed out of the market.

[Teddy Starsmith]

Thanks for all the advice

After lurking around this fourm and at the overclockersclub website (Yes I know, it's a dumb name, but it's still a very useful site) I've decided to go with the building approach ^^ Not only cuz I think it would be something fun to do, but I've always wanted to do it since I was a kid. Yea yea, I know, I'm being like Michael Jackon and living out my childhood, but I suppose it's not as bad as buying a themepark.^^...though with enough money, I probably would do that too... >.>...Ahem, anyways, back to the topic at hand. I also decided to get some hardware with features that  I know SL doesn't support right now, but that doesn't mean they won't support it in the future. Therefore, I won't have to spend more time and energy upgrading and replacing later down the road, ensuring I can keep the same PC as it is for a much longer time. I have finished finding all the parts I need though, but I'll most certainly take the advice about the 660 ti geforce cards in account. Anyways, please tell me what you guys think Here is the following specs I've collected at the moment:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131876

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106183

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171048

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220707

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148725

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103960

 

Whew! Lots of stuff Made me break out into a sweat. Anyways, I totaled it all so far up to $956.94 with 0 shipping costs. Whatcha guys think though? Any opinions if I should change or add anything? Took me almost all last night and this morning to come up with all of this. I kinda been obsessed, hehe^^

[Nyll Bergbahn]

Wow, a lot there to chew over and I can only make a few suggestions at the moment.

Why not get the Intel Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) which you can happily overclock to at least 4.6 GHz paired with a decent motherboard for which I'd suggest the Gigabyte Z77X-UP5TH or the Asus P8Z77-VLX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=100006654&isNodeId=1&Description=gigabyte+z77x-ud5h

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131824

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504&Tpk=intel%203570k

No issue with the Seagate HDD or Coolermaster case but add a120GB Intel 330 Series SSD (enough for your OS and a few games) and a good GPU such as the new Nvidia GTX 660 or the GTX 670 and you should have a great system. Not too sure about the Thermaltake cooler, I'll get back on that.

These are just suggestions to consider of course.

 

[Alicia Sautereau]

I still don`t recommend  using LC and just get a decent aftermarket cpu cooler

IF you really want to install a LC set, build it yourself so that you can create a loop that also includes the GPU wich produces the most heat/noise

Here`s an example:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2cf5b2c.jpg

Ofcourse in your system you don`t need a double loop

[Teddy Starsmith]

Happy sunday y'all

 

So yea, instead of goiing to church, I spent the rest of this morning coming up with my latest list of system specs after the information here and at overclockersclub. Thank you all so much for your ideas and input. They've contributed a great deal to my knowledge and understanding of what I'm getting, especially the time it's taking me to get what I need. I appreciate it lots. I hope you all have a great weekend. Please look at the following recent list of specs and offer any further ideas or opinion, regardless if it's agreeing or disagreeing. I assure you that every comment so far has helped me come far in my decision of this build. Take care

Note: Each product listed has a link along with it to inform the reader exactly where I'm buying it from. And I'll especially be getting that mouse suggested to me earlier on here. Thanks very much for the suggestion

 

ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827135204

COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel/ Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811119225

Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148725

ASUS GTX670-DC2-2GD5 GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card : http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121637

CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139010

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B : http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820145345

SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD): http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820147164

Bundle for Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K and
ASUS Maximus V FORMULA LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
Fusion Thermo,SupremeFXIV,ROG Connect,Quad SLI/CFX: http://www.newegg.co...t=Combo.1066876

 

And na, I don't think I will go with water cooling. At least for the moment. I've decided, based on all the feedback I've gotten and research, that it's best if I only use that if I seriously plan to overclock. But if I ever have to, the option will already be on the motherboard, and hopefully the option of water cooling will be a lot less expensive by then. Take care everyone and thanks again!