Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 This is for fellow content creators- how do you react to absolutely arrogant merchants?My lady friend suggested I buy some sunglasses from a creator I won't name. I looked and noticed that they were heavily scripted, no modify prims, so I decided I didn't want them. But she insisted, so I asked the creator if he'd be willing to sell them with modify permission.Not only was I told no, I was told that no mod is "circa 2008". In the spirit of casual conversation, I mentioned I like modify perms. I said it politely for a change, too. I was then told that I was being daft and "lol" no one can script or texture "on my level".I know all about arrogant- I like to think I could write scripts that would make most content creator's heads explode- and that's easily the most arrogant way to talk to a potential customer I've ever seen. After he continued to say that I don't comprehend the point of no mod and that there's no sense fixing something that isn't broken, I simply stopped answering and left.So back to original question- what do you guys think of that kind of arrogance in other merchants and/or creators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Nefarious Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So back to original question- what do you guys think of that kind of arrogance in other merchants and/or creators? I don't buy from merchants if the permissions aren't what I want, but I'm not so arrogant that I expect them to make special editions of the product for me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Interesting that you'd say that, Darrius. He actually told me that if I want to be a creator, I should just start from scratch instead. That's a good idea. With that kind of customer service, just about any crap anybody makes would probably sell better. Not to say your stuff is crap, but.... Well, you're smart enough to get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwen Serpente Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gadget, here's my take on this: I respect my fellow creators and Merchants and the decisions they make for the items and services they provide. I really don't overthink what they do as long they are honest and original. Sometimes I may not understand their motives for why they do what they do, but I respect it as their right to make their own decisions regarding permissions and end user licensing. At this point, I pretty much only buy creator's tools/building supplies...if the item is nice but the end user license is too restrictive or something I can't work with, I just turn my attention to something else on the market. I don't ask them if they will change "just for me". I've even had situations where the building supplies are delivered with the wrong permissions and unusable - I've contacted the creator and gotten no response. I'll never understand that and wouldn't conduct business that way. In those instances, I just walk away and never buy from them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Making conversation with a creator about their stuff isn't arrogant. I've had people talk to me about mine and I've improved it after the conversation, and I've seen other creators get excited about ideas from customers as well. I suggested to one merchant in the past that made the prims but not the scripts that I hoped to drop my own script in and add the intended functionality, and they happily offered copy and modify. As a matter of fact, they were downright excited about it, and even offered texture maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I look at it this way ... My head is only so big. I can only come up with so many "great ideas". But when I listen to customers, fellow creators and any other source of inspiration I can find, my head-space grows correspondingly larger with the inclusion of their input. Any statement of "I know best" is also a direct statement that I am limiting my creations to the size of one imagination. It's taken millions and millions of imaginations, ideas and happy accidents to put these really neat computers under our fingers. I'd be a fool to think I can do better all by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 On the contrary, asking if a change to an existing product was possible is neither rude nor asking for limited edition. As we say over here, asking doesn't cost you anything. However in that case a simple no would go a much longer way than the arrogance that was displayed here that went beyond the question asked. I always buy mod-able items, and have in the past contacted creators about it, all have been polite and most have changed perms. The one that didn't actually went ahead and made the changes himself that I explained I wanted to do to the product and sent me the updated version at no extra cost. It isn't up to discussion here whether or not we should respect item permissions, the OP is talking about politely asking a merchant and getting an astoundingly arrogant response in return. That's costumer service fail and once more reminds us that not everyone treats their business in SL seriously...or some treat it just a little too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: This is for fellow content creators- how do you react to absolutely arrogant merchants? My lady friend suggested I buy some sunglasses from a creator I won't name. I looked and noticed that they were heavily scripted, no modify prims, so I decided I didn't want them. But she insisted, so I asked the creator if he'd be willing to sell them with modify permission. Not only was I told no, I was told that no mod is "circa 2008". In the spirit of casual conversation, I mentioned I like modify perms. I said it politely for a change, too. I was then told that I was being daft and "lol" no one can script or texture "on my level". I know all about arrogant- I like to think I could write scripts that would make most content creator's heads explode- and that's easily the most arrogant way to talk to a potential customer I've ever seen. After he continued to say that I don't comprehend the point of no mod and that there's no sense fixing something that isn't broken, I simply stopped answering and left. So back to original question- what do you guys think of that kind of arrogance in other merchants and/or creators? The creator was definitely full of themselves, but in cases like that, I don't really think anything about them. It's not my business....if they want to be jerks let them...it only benefits someone else who isn't. But on the topic of actually getting the mod item...if i wanted something MOD and asked for it and they said no. Not a big deal, I'd just move on to someone else who wants my business. Anything new I've made in the last year or two has been mod, in fact mostly copy/mod but I have some older stuff that is no mod. There are a couple of things, I just won't go mod on. Not because I'm arrogant but because I've started out with it as MOD, people adjust it and break it and then come back to me wanting help with it. And not to be arrogant, but I'm not here to support something that someone else broke because they adjusted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Darrius Gothly wrote: I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* LOL...I'm not gonna lie...I've totally done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Monday Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Just like in RL, if a merchant is arrogant, rude, obnoxious or stupid...I go buy from someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuria Augapfel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Deja Letov wrote: Darrius Gothly wrote: I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* LOL...I'm not gonna lie...I've totally done this. Trying to reproduce creations from other designers (their top seller) to try to hurt them somehow ?... definitely an attitude like this is not way to do business...not from honnest, original and professional merchants. You should feel ashamed of such sentence. To the OP, i'm seeing here arrogance in both sides. You knew what permissions had the item, you knew that was heavily scripted....... seriously, the merchant told you that you was being daft just because you asked him to change the permissions politely as you claim or maybe we are missing some part in this issue? It is common that when customer asks for changing permissions of a product and the answer is "no" the merchant automatically becomes a greedy and arrogant who's providing bad customer service (even if the merchant is polite). What made you think that he's going to change the permissions specially for you?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Seriously, some ppl act like they bought the merchandise only because a gun was held to their heads. If that is not what you want, just don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Verwood Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Regardless of if we're missing a part of the story or not, just taking what the original post was about if that indeed was the case I personally don't see the hurt in asking. Most times you really don't know the answer until you ask. As simple as that previous sentence seems it is quite often true. I've asked creators in the past if they planned to offer a different version of an item, be it mod or what have you. Why? Because I wouldn't know the answer unless I asked. Most times I had a good response, others it was a no. But either way I'm glad I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The time to ask is before purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 nuria Augapfel wrote: Deja Letov wrote: Darrius Gothly wrote: I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* LOL...I'm not gonna lie...I've totally done this. Trying to reproduce creations from other designers (their top seller) to try to hurt them somehow ?... definitely an attitude like this is not way to do business...not from honnest, original and professional merchants. You should feel ashamed of such sentence. To the OP, i'm seeing here arrogance in both sides. You knew what permissions had the item, you knew that was heavily scripted....... seriously, the merchant told you that you was being daft just because you asked him to change the permissions politely as you claim or maybe we are missing some part in this issue? It is common that when customer asks for changing permissions of a product and the answer is "no" the merchant automatically becomes a greedy and arrogant who's providing bad customer service (even if the merchant is polite). What made you think that he's going to change the permissions specially for you?.... Pamela Galli wrote: Seriously, some ppl act like they bought the merchandise only because a gun was held to their heads. If that is not what you want, just don't buy it. If you really think it's arrogant to ask a question, do us all a favor... Close SL, uninstall it, turn off your computer... Then go play in traffic. Darrius said it way better than me, look at some of his posts. You're irredeemably stupid if you think your creations are perfect and you'll accept no feedback from other people. He told me I was daft to want to make changes to a perfect product. That's arrogance. That's far more arrogance than I could ever hope to display, and bing a jerk is one of my skills. Some merchants are good with offering modify. I've had some in the past be very excited about it, if you've read the rest of the thread. Other merchants have told me no, and they've been fine about it. They had good reasons, or didn't offer reasons. Either is fine. This one was the first to elaborate that his creations are perfect, and that no one could possibly do anything to them to make them better, because he's better than everyone else in SL. And that tickled me enough to make a thread. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 WTF? Of course you ask before purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: WTF? Of course you ask before purchase. No actually quite a few ppl buy something then decide they want the perms changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Well that's just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 nuria Augapfel wrote: Deja Letov wrote: Darrius Gothly wrote: I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* LOL...I'm not gonna lie...I've totally done this. Trying to reproduce creations from other designers (their top seller) to try to hurt them somehow ?... definitely an attitude like this is not way to do business...not from honnest, original and professional merchants. You should feel ashamed of such sentence. To the OP, i'm seeing here arrogance in both sides. You knew what permissions had the item, you knew that was heavily scripted....... seriously, the merchant told you that you was being daft just because you asked him to change the permissions politely as you claim or maybe we are missing some part in this issue? It is common that when customer asks for changing permissions of a product and the answer is "no" the merchant automatically becomes a greedy and arrogant who's providing bad customer service (even if the merchant is polite). What made you think that he's going to change the permissions specially for you?.... Actually wasn't to hurt them at all...simply to prove a point. I say that sentence very tongue in cheek in light of this thread and the previous comments made by others in a jest sort of manner and not like I have to justify myself to anyone but myself, but there was one designer in particular that made me say that sentence. He told me I would never be able able to build something as good as he did. That starting a business in SL was completely pointless with my skillset (this was 3-4 years ago keep in mind and funny enough he isn't even in SL anymore) and went so far to tell me my best product wouldn't beat out his worst product. The goal was not simply to reproduce creations from other designers...I don't do that...the goal was to put him in his place to strike his ego down a bit and show him he wasn't the only **bleep** in the hen house. So no I don't feel ashamed at all. I tell people about that story all the time and I'm actually proud of it because the product I did...was completely original and looked nothing like his. I didn't reproduce his item...that would be like saying I copy Pamela because I also make dining room furniture as she does. I took an item name and made my own, all custom textures, all different sculpts, scripting, etc. I realize I didn't spell out the whole story in the original post, because it was just a quip sort of statement, but I would maybe make an effort on the whole story before passing judgement. It's pretty obvious to me that Darrius and my comment were made out of humor so lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Merchants are arrogant? When did that happen? Most of them actually are narcissistic money grubbing L$eeches with an attitude but that doesn't make them bad it makes them skilled capitialist artists. Just a warning, if Pam finds out you're copying her products, she's going to be whacking your knuckles with a ruler. I'm having a "probably shouldn't hit the Post button moment" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Well damn it, i swear I was the first person to make a "couch". All the rest of you houligans better get off my train! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuria Augapfel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If you really think it's arrogant to ask a question, do us all a favor... Close SL, uninstall it, turn off your computer... Then go play in traffic. Darrius said it way better than me, look at some of his posts. You're irredeemably stupid if you think your creations are perfect and you'll accept no feedback from other people. Thanks for your advice, but sorry for now I am not going to do this favor:matte-motes-little-laugh: I do not think that ask a question to merchant is arrogant, but in some cases some merchants are very explicit (on their policy/profiles...) about not changing the permissions of their items. I have had problems with customers that after purchasing a product have insisted on changing permissions of the item for them (to modify) having a tantrum when the answer is no. Accept no feedback from other people is certainly stupid, but as well there are people being arrogant with their feedback/suggestions who acts like teaching you how you have to do things, making you wonder why they are not making their own products...My point is that arrogance many times works in both ways. If we (merchants) had to open a post each time that we find arrogant customers SL forums would be satured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpendingDoom Looming Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Darrius Gothly wrote: I identify their top sellers .. and add them to my list of "Products I will be making soon." *grin* My entire business model is based on this principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Nuria, My post (as mentioned by Deja) was a tiny bit tongue-in-cheek (meaning spoken with a tiny slice of humor). But it was also a tiny bit serious. If I may explain ... Selling products in SL is something I've been learning how to do for a few years now. I came into it with certain ideas that I held from prior experiences. But as I have developed and grown my business, some of those ideas have proven false while others have proven true. But one that has remained solid over all this time is the simple idea that excellent customer service is an absolutely critical component of any successful business. I have seen over all my years that good customer service can overcome big problems in other areas. Think of it like stacking blocks on top of each other .. the goal is to build the tallest stack. If you have one block that is very big, you can build a taller stack. However, if all of your blocks are very big then you can build a taller stack than anyone else. When I encounter someone with a level of arrogance or attitude that is off-putting .. that makes me angry or makes me upset as a customer (or fellow creator) then I naturally feel that I can improve on their efforts in my own way. Even though I may not have every block as big as theirs, I believe (in my own quietly arrogant way) that some of my blocks are much bigger. When it comes to the Customer Service block, I like to think mine is as big as possible .. and I consider their Customer Service block to be way too small. No, I do not attempt to copy their products to harm them or to prove myself better. However if they are selling lots of a specific product and I believe I can make a product that fills the same niche but "builds a taller stack of blocks" then I consider that a good opportunity to improve my own business. To date I have not done so. I have several lines of products that I feel are the best around, but they came into existence either because I was fascinated with how they work in general (such as my teleporters) or because a friend wanted something that did the job but worked better (my slideshows). Neither of those were born out of a belief I could beat someone else out .. even though while making them I held that as a goal. I never had anyone specific in mind, I just felt I could do better than anyone else had. I hope I've explained my comment a bit better. I do not believe in "attacking" someone because they've upset me or shown arrogance. However I do believe that a good opportunity when presented should be pursued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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