Qie Niangao Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Yeah, maybe. I mean, to each his own -- except when it's harmful to others. And that's where settings come into play. Right on this page we see 10 seconds being mentioned as if it were a reasonable time to escape, whereas it's obviously not even close to adequate. "MINE MINE MINE" is fine for roleplaying an infant. Otherwise, not so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Convair Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 That devices are stupid and pointless but so are many of the avatars which asses they kick. I once got such an orb. Well I don't care if someone looks into my home, as long as I'm not there. If I'm there I expect them to stay off or at least ask nicely. So instead of IM'ing or kicking off stupid asses I installed an automatic asskicker! And I tell you it's great Needs a short warning time of course to do it's job properly. And of course I don't bother and switch it off everytime I go. At the moment I don't need it, only very few strangers. So it just depends on the situation. And there is no right to walk everywhere you want. If you are unwanted at a place - get over it and don't stomp with the foot and say "but I want" like a litte kiddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: Yeah, maybe. I mean, to each his own -- except when it's harmful to others. And that's where settings come into play. Right on this page we see 10 seconds being mentioned as if it were a reasonable time to escape, whereas it's obviously not even close to adequate. "MINE MINE MINE" is fine for roleplaying an infant. Otherwise, not so much. Since I am the one who mentioned the ten seconds I'll respond to your comment. You're entirely wrong. Ten seconds is a more than adequate amount of time. The device announces the fact that you are in a secure zone and informs you that you will be ejected from same if you don't leave in ten seconds. Since it only triggers (because of the way I set it up) if an avatar is either standing in the middle of the bed or has activated a poseball on same) all said avatar need do is step off the bed or Stand Up to get out of the secured area. One second would be time enough, actually, as in fact when I alt-tested it that's all the time it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 And the message says clearly that all they have to do is get away from the bed? Or are they left to guess where "safe" might be, as is the case with every orb I've ever encountered? And in those cases, how is the "intruder" to even guess which way is closer to safety and which is deeper into the forbidden zone? Trust me, I don't want to go anywhere near these fabled Beds of The Orb, but I've gotten trapped many times simply walking down the road across a sim border and ending up inside somebody's ever-so-precious, oh-so-private build, because no physics applied during the region handoff. At that point, if all it does is eject from parcel, it's only mildly annoying: it's not that much more disruptive than what the region crossing has already done. It's still silly, but so are many things in SL. It's when I get teleported home that I get testy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 No, of course it does not define the area. On the other hand, two steps in any direction is sufficient, AND since it can only have been activated by someone who ascended to the second floor and got into the bed I am really not all that concerned if it causes that someone a minor inconvenience. I do realize that newcomers do that sort of thing all the time but I hardly think giving them a little nudge off the parcel is going to detract from their SL experience. As I said in my post, my sole reason for having it is so I can log in without finding someone engaging in the bed. It's quite true that one can set up an orb in ways that can make it a nuisance and when that happens it should be pointed out. I hardly think that fact is a reason to call those of us who use them infants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Dillon Levenque wrote: No, of course it does not define the area. On the other hand, two steps in any direction is sufficient, AND since it can only have been activated by someone who ascended to the second floor and got into the bed I am really not all that concerned if it causes that someone a minor inconvenience. I do realize that newcomers do that sort of thing all the time but I hardly think giving them a little nudge off the parcel is going to detract from their SL experience. As I said in my post, my sole reason for having it is so I can log in without finding someone engaging in the bed. It's quite true that one can set up an orb in ways that can make it a nuisance and when that happens it should be pointed out. I hardly think that fact is a reason to call those of us who use them infants. The Orb manufacturers should make it simpler to adjust the time and the radius via HUD and/or chat command. It's again a situation where people use them with out knowing or thinking about side affects. I like how you are handling your bed. But when I am out sailing with friends and run into one along a shore line, 15 seconds is often not enough time for to get clear of the area. And now everyone on the boat has to respond to it. If we don't get clear of that orb all of us on the boat are going to get dumped with out ceremony. And many times SIM's have specific locations that you can rez your boats and you can't rez any where else. So we can find ourselves starting all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Granted, I'm in an uncommonly crappy mood today because I lost a bunch of scripting to a region restart, despite claims that cached sim state is persisted at shutdown. Still... ... I am really not all that concerned if it causes that someone a minor inconvenience. Of that there can be little doubt. Witness: two steps in any direction is sufficient And the orb's victim would know this how? In the unlikely event that they guess how to escape, does the orb congratulate them on having averted the dread fate it had threatened? No, of course it doesn't, because their minor inconvenience isn't a concern. It doesn't matter that it's all bewildering to the victim--we don't think about that. Rather, what is important is an empty bed at login because... hmmm. Oh, I know: Because the victim isn't the one paying tier for that bed. And it's true: we pay for our little pixel paradises and so we can do pretty much whatever silliness we want on them. That doesn't make it all any less silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coby Foden Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Dillon Levenque wrote: ... On the other hand, two steps in any direction is sufficient, ... Unfortunately one cannot take two steps on any direction with a sailboat. :smileyindifferent: I understand the sensible use of the orbs. They're perfectly all right. But I have met ones which reach out to perfectly sailable narrow water passage, and with that default 10 seconds warning time. I guess those people never sail. :smileysad: As one does not know how far ahead the orb's secured area extends, it seems logical to turn the boat around. This manouver takes time. 10 seconds pass fast away while trying to manouver the boat. It's rather hopeless effort trying to escape in such a short time. Once I was lucky with 10 seconds orb, I quickly jumped off the boat, flew a bit to the direction where I came from. And from there, the safe area, I dragged the boat under me and continued my sailing happily. :smileyhappy: Well, this does not work if object return is short, the boat gets returned! So, if it really is necessary to have the orb to cover a water passage, a considerate owner could set the time to 60 seconds perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Coby Foden wrote: Dillon Levenque wrote: ... On the other hand, two steps in any direction is sufficient, ... Unfortunately one cannot take two steps on any direction with a sailboat. :smileyindifferent: Oh I quite understand, believe me, and I dislike (not to the point of berating someone, but enough that it bugs me) any impediment to travel in anything like open air, water, or land. I was merely trying to suggest that it is quite possible to place a security orb in a manner that does NOT do that. Wasting my time, in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Janus Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 AR anyone who sends you shooting across SL.... Dont tell me these things arent stupid when you can beam straight into a region you never visited before and end up being shot out immediately by one of these devices..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Maelstrom Janus wrote: AR anyone who sends you shooting across SL.... Dont tell me these things arent stupid when you can beam straight into a region you never visited before and end up being shot out immediately by one of these devices..... That's one of the dangers of SIM hopping. Suck it up and put on your big girl panties. TP into my house and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 i have a simboard vehicle. is pretty cool. i play on it quite a lot i mostly just go on the linden water sims with it bc is hardly anyone on them and can schoom round on it and not bother anyone on the bordering sims is some lands got security orbs and others got banlines on. is ok that they do + the landowners with the security orbs are pretty clued up usual bc they got boats and stuff themselfs and they kinda know about what can happen on your vehicle when you get a sim crossing fail and can end up anywhere sometimes. so the ones where i go set their orbs to quite a long time. like 60 seconds and longer some of them. so thats ok + the banlines are more a problem i think. is ok that people wants to put them up. i think is ok if they do. like if you wants get changed and stuff in your own home then they good for that specially when you got avatar visibilty off as well the problem isnt the banlines really all by themselfs. is what happens when you run into them. your vehicle gets stuck and cant move. so u have to rightclick Edit and move it. then you have to Stand and Sit down again on most vehicles so they can reset camera/engine. the problem with this is that your vehicle can get returned to you when the Object Return on the linden land underneath has expired. is pain in the bum for travellers when this happens bc it disrupt your journey and you have to find a rez zone somewhere nearby hopefully. if not then have to start your journey over again or abandon anyways that the problem as i think it is + is a solution maybe you know when is void/no sim and you run into it then you bounce off and can just carry on. same thing happens if you set your Prefs to G only. like on mainland you can schoom along the road and when you hit a M sim boundary you just bounce/stop and it says sorry cant go there. like you dont get stuck and can just turn round and go back down the road if linden made it so that parcel banline did the same then would solve this i think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: Yeah, maybe. I mean, to each his own -- except when it's harmful to others. And that's where settings come into play. Right on this page we see 10 seconds being mentioned as if it were a reasonable time to escape, whereas it's obviously not even close to adequate. I agree that 10 seconds isn't enough time for a stranger to read the message and realise that they have to leave, figure out which way to go and actually clear the device's limit, not knowing where the limit is, before being booted. It wouldn't be too bad if the device ejected them so they are placed just outside the parcel, but booting to Home would be very bad. The devices that I came across way back in the past gave several warnings before removing the person, so there was a visible countdown that took a lot longer than 10 seconds. They were in the form of, 1. You must leave, 2. You must leave, 3. Final warning, 4. boot, and there was around 10 seconds between each. That's apart from one device that sent you Home you on sight. It was on a relatively small parcel but you didn't even have time to fly straight across its narrow dimension before being sent Home. That was really bad. An IM to the owner got it changed. So, as long as a reasonable time is given for the person to leave, there's nothing wrong or negative with security devices, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Dillon. A thought occured to me concerning your discussion with Qie... You said that all the person needs to do it step off the bed or stand up to be safe, and that they aren't given that information. You also said that you set it up so that it only kicked in when a poseball had been activated - something like that. If you can control it to that degree, perhaps you can rewrite the messages that the device issues so that the person can know to simply step off the bed or stand up. If you can do that, it would be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yeah... I mean, we've had these discussions for ages. I'm not really opposed to the existence of scripted security systems, but I've found the vast majority of those I've encountered to be set on a hair trigger and emit completely useless warning messages. (Also, any scripts of this type that haven't been updated in the past year are several times more laggy than they need to be. But bad settings will still be bad settings, however shiny the scripts.) There's another thing that's got me seeing things a little differently right now, compared to the gazillion times this came up before, and that's Rodvik's revelation (about a month ago) that LL can turn on and off floods of new logins, but that retention is zero no matter what they do. That's being discussed everywhere, so we certainly don't need to do it in this thread, but it's caused a dramatic change in my "evaluation" of newbies. If they've lasted long enough to wander the Mainland and stumble into one of my properties, the very last gahddammed thing I want to do is discourage them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yeah, I thought of that too. Took a look at it last night and unfortunately the settings don't have a provision for that and the script is no mod so I couldn't even rewrite the message if I could find it. I may shop for a more flexible orb. As to activating by poseball, I should have worded that better. You have to actually be in a part of the bed where most of the poseballs are to activate, since it's in the bottom half of a sphere (and it turns out to be 8m diameter, not 10 as I'd written). Probably only the lower meter and a half of the sphere actually intersects the bed so unless you're near the center you won't trip the switch. I also experimented a bit with timing and there is a multi-second delay (not, regrettably, adjustable) between the time an avatar enters the field and the security goes off. My alt could walk across the bed without setting off the alarm. I'm thinking such a thing would be ideal for orbs that affect waterways, etc. ETA In reference to my last sentence: I personally don't see any reason whatever for security on open land, air, or water. That's why I liked the orb—I assumed when I saw them they were intended for use in dwellings or other buildings. I've since learned that isn't always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Dillon Levenque wrote: Yeah, I thought of that too. Took a look at it last night and unfortunately the settings don't have a provision for that and the script is no mod so I couldn't even rewrite the message if I could find it. I may shop for a more flexible orb. As to activating by poseball, I should have worded that better. You have to actually be in a part of the bed where most of the poseballs are to activate, since it's in the bottom half of a sphere (and it turns out to be 8m diameter, not 10 as I'd written). Probably only the lower meter and a half of the sphere actually intersects the bed so unless you're near the center you won't trip the switch. I also experimented a bit with timing and there is a multi-second delay (not, regrettably, adjustable) between the time an avatar enters the field and the security goes off. My alt could walk across the bed without setting off the alarm. I'm thinking such a thing would be ideal for orbs that affect waterways, etc. ETA In reference to my last sentence: I personally don't see any reason whatever for security on open land, air, or water. That's why I liked the orb—I assumed when I saw them they were intended for use in dwellings or other buildings. I've since learned that isn't always the case. I am curious about one thing here. Just about every bed (and related couches, desks, chairs, countertops, kitchen sinks, etc) that I have ever seen gives you the ability to limit who can access the Menu, ie, Owner only, Group, Everyone. Unless there are others who you are allowing to stain your sheets, why don't you just set the bed to 'Owner Only?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzabelha Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well I can tell you why. I pay a Lot for my half sim which is my private home. I have spent MY money to purchase things for my enjoyment. I do not have a "commercial" theme where I live in sl. So, I do care when I log off that someone is using things I have purchased for myself, and I don't want people to wander around my land. I do however have sim set to non-public so it is mine to enjoy. For rentals I use orbs for my renters, if they wish to keep their objects for their own use that is up to them and no one else should decide if that's right or wrong. The orbs are simple and dont' have anything fancy, not a big blue menu just adding names and ejection time and radius, they do not ban people or send them home, just in the air. People that are "exploring" should do so on sims that are public. I have seen many "explorers" stay too long in someone's personal space, and bring their friends along. Also griefing is a problem when you have disputes between someone's ex gf/bf/partner and people that own rentals are not always available to ban the griefer from the sim. 4 sims of renters I can tell you why there is a need for orbs. If you have spent 2 hours wandering around and you get sent home, why don't you just use your TP history and back track In all honesty SL is about each individuals personal choice and how they choose to live it and share things. If someone's private land has cause you an inconvenience you may want to look at that a little closer. Just sayin. Sorry I got off topic here, but I can't stand when people "explore" on someone's personal land. Load your Paypal account and get your own land and objects. ETA: Having to continually switch all of your objects that animate when you log off to owner only is ridiculous. I, not sure about anyone else, have friends that have access to my "home" so it's easier to set to "all users". Why should I be inconvenienced. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well....without getting too personal, in the event I actually DO have a reason to use the bed, I'd have to keep turning that setting off or editing the list. I suppose that isn't that big a deal, but in all honesty the orb is less bother. And, since the orb only comes into play* when someone has deliberately decided to do something most of us agree he shouldn't—use other people's personal space and items for his own recreation—I really don't think I'm being over-protective here. *I admit it's theoretically possible that a vehicle could get sim-crossing bumped at the nearest crossing (about 400m N) and come to a stop inside that 4m radius hemisphere on the roof. I just don't think it's likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 See your PMs, Dillon. Just out of interest, the reason that there's a multi-second delay before the security device goes off is because security devices scan at regular intervals and they only spot avs when they scan. If an av enters range at the precise scan time, it will go off immediately. If an av enters immediately after the scan, there will be several seconds delay before the device scans again and becomes aware of it. So it can go off anywhere between immediately and the number of seconds in the scan period, and the number of seconds before it communicates with an av can't be adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Qie Niangao wrote: (Also, any scripts of this type that haven't been updated in the past year are several times more laggy than they need to be. But bad settings will still be bad settings, however shiny the scripts.) How come? What's changed that would reduce any lag caused by security devices? I can only think of a device's regular scans. Has LL changed things so that an event need only be generated when there's a 'hit'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Mostly llGetAgentList(). That's a modest improvement for fixed-sensor scripts (things that don't try to "secure" beyond a 96m radius of the device itself). It's a massive win compared to rezzing multiple moving sensor probes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I don't think anybody much moaning about what you do on a private sim or even a mainland one that has no public spaces on it the moaning isnt about explorers either. the moan comes from vehicle owners. like what happens when on your vehicle: you hit a banline, a no object entry parcel and/or parcel full. and what happens with evicter scripts. more specifically what happens to your vehicle in all these cases is true that is your land and can do whatever you want is also true that if a person lives on a mainland sim right next to a water/road/rail public space that has been designed by linden/mole for the express purpose of ride/fly/sail a vehicle, and that person put in a no/lo warning evicter script or set their land controls to interfere with the vehicle riders effort to extricate themselves from the land ..., then they a aline + even more aline. I notice that on parcels that edge public water/ocean sims then the people who do have no/lo warning evicters right up to the edge of the public sim, also push all kinds of megaprims out into the public water. these are not void sims. they public sims. land that the parcel owner dont pay for and yet feels entitled to encroach on to make into their own view/place is a strong correlation between uptoedge lo/no warning evicter scripts and megaprim encroachment onto public spaces. like about 8 out of 10 no/lo evicter script landowners are also encroaching on the public spaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 when I had a bed I made it so that any other person got evicted when they sit on it I did like that bc when I used to have a bed I would put my ava in it in pyjamas before I log out so she can have a good sleep. didnt want no creepy person try get in her bed with her while she was asleep (: if they was just walking round and sit on anything else then oh well dont care. so that was ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 You always say such interesting and informative stuff that even the people who lack patience for deliberate slang (me, for instance) struggle through it to get at what you're saying. I can't parse a couple of things you said here and one of them matters. The one that doesn't matter is 'aline'; I'm just going with 'out of line' for that since I bet the meanings are close enough. But what means 'no/lo'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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