geopbyte Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 After several years of being a resident in Second Life, I have found one thing to remain constant throughout all the years.No it is not the viewer. The changes there are constant and unappealing.It is not the grid or the activities therein.It is the inaction of the team of Linden Employees who deal with abuse on the Second Life servers. Many of you who read this are land owners, estate managers, or at least at some point throughout your Second Life you have been forced to deal with a griefer. The frustration of having to deal with these children who think it makes them look cooler or whatever their motivations are, to crash sims, fill up parcels with boxes and sounds, can be very annoying. What is worst than dealing with a griefer though? Dealing with the people who are responsible for stopping and preventing these kids from doing what they are doing to begin with. Try this out for yourself. The next time you are being griefed or your sim is crashed. Contact any one of the many Linden employees that are online. The response will be the same. "Please file an abuse report.". OK so file your abuse report and see what happens. Usually within minutes you will receive an email thanking you for your abuse report. Though sometimes it may take upto 24 hours before you get this email. Now what happens? Well you get griefed a whole lot more. Your sim keeps crashing.The griefer is free to do whatever they like for as long as they like. Linden Lab takes their time and may look at your report within a few days. They may not look at it at all. But what happens if you kick it into high gear? Lets say you send a report every time the griefer comes to your sim to crash it. lets say 20-30 times a day? Or what if you report the griefer for every prim they have griefed you with? Which could be in the hundreds? The abuse team quickly jumps to action and informs you that if you continue to file abuse reports you will be banned for harrasment of a Linden.?!?!?!?!?!?!? So after 6 years of being in this virtual world, I have noticed that nothing about the way griefers are handled has changed. The people who are victims are treated like the aggressors and the people who grief are ignored by the staff of this great world. I am sorry Linden Lab, but I strongly feel it is time to rethink the way you act(or dont act) to abuse reports. It is time for a change that allows the paying residents of this world to feel some sort of security. And i think it is time that people who grief are banned. You have the ability to completely block computers from accessing Second Life. I say use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Boyle Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 That's not my experience. The one time I was being griefed with self-replicating objects, I went on chat support and, within a few minutes, a Linden came to my house to solve the problem. I couldn't have expected anything better. That was a couple of years or more ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiselleErin Teardrop Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 hmm, sounds like the same thing as in RL when you call the cops for something and when they arrive (45 minutes later) they act like YOU are the bad guy. Unless it is something directly harming LL they tend to not really bother with things. You pretty much have to be screwing up huge before they step in. Huge as in crashing ne of their own sims, running a casino, or doing something that Chris hansen would be interested in putting on Dateline. I know they don't really mess with minor griefing cause I have personally known griefers who have been reported and never heard another word about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Peccable Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Here my inaction story: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mainland/Farewell-Dobinson/td-p/1528457 I never have fully recovered from that. It still has me on the verge of tiering down to just a 512m plot somewhere, or even leaving SL all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 the last time one came to one of my sims..he got runned ova wiff mah bike and then nuked for a billion meters up..then he im'd me from way up in the sky and said..i looked at your profile.. you're a girl!!..i thought this was someone elses sim.. i said no he lives next door you jerk!! then he ask me out..lol true story lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Triple Peccable wrote: Here my inaction story: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mainland/Farewell-Dobinson/td-p/1528457 I never have fully recovered from that. It still has me on the verge of tiering down to just a 512m plot somewhere, or even leaving SL all together. Your story isn't about griefing. It's a different thing altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 It's normal for the AR team to fail to do what they are paid to do, and you are right. Nothing has changed over the years. The only time I've seen quick action from them was when someone was using Linden-owned land for particle griefing. That happened a couple of times recently, and the AR team were quick to deal with it. Other than that, the AR team has been a complete washout as far as doing their jobs is concerned. I've had results from them by contacting their boss - twice - but not until I did that. Not even repeated ARs worked. I was at the point of ARing once an hour when I decided to contact their boss directly. Minutes later, the thing was dealt with. On one occasion I could have got a Linden to deal with it but I insisted to myself that the AR team will deal it, because they are paid to do it. And they did as soon as I contacted their boss. My attitude is that I pay for that service and I insist on receiving it. These days, nobody (users) seems to know who the AR team's boss is and, if I need to do it again, I'd contact the top (Rodvik) after giving the AR team a reasonable time to do their job. That's what I've recommended doing several times in the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Peccable Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Phil Deakins wrote: Your story isn't about griefing. It's a different thing altogether. This thread isn't about griefing, it is about inaction of the AR team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koltari Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 You were lucky. I had my first run in with griefing objects not long ago. I AR'ed it. Nothing happened. I started getting desperate so I tried Live Chat. They said I had to file an abuse report. Sigh. I file another abuse report. No response. I get hold of the neighbors where the cube is lodged straight on their border but they couldn't return it. They file an AR. Nothing happens. I decide to reopen a ticket about some other land concerns I had, and while apologizing that I contact them again about another matter, I ask for couple of minutes of their time to remove this object...finally this Linden understood the peril and helped us out within a couple of hours of reopening the ticket. Shouldn't have been necessary though, if the AR had worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 the problem with the AR system and it taking so long is..people Ar for every little thing..that ends up clogging the system.. there are a lot of false AR's in there as well that have to be sorted.. i don't know if taking their time is the real problem more than having enough time to get to the real problems.. any Ar i have handed them has been delt with..not counting when the email system was down..once that was fixed and i sent it in again.they delt with the problem.. there are so many things that could be overlooked that people will hit the AR button for.. we already know they are understaffed..but even with the full staff it took days a lot of the times.. i used to be a head manager of one of the big clubs in sl.. everytime i logged in..my IM's were alreay full..i spent hours never even taking a step because not only were they full when i got there..but new ones kept coming in every minute.. there was never enough time to get to them all right away or to make everyone happy.. i can only imagine how much work each one of them has when they get to work..let alone th stuff they had left over from days before.. i can't count how many times i have heard in some place..AR'd or just AR them and mute.. over silly crap that could have easily been absorbed and overlooked but wasn't.. thats gonna clog up the system big time..sorry but users own the reason why the real serious stuff has to wait to be delt with..because if it's a rule no matter what size..it's a chance to get an AR on someone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 geopbyte wrote: After several years of being a resident in Second Life, I have found one thing to remain constant throughout all the years. No it is not the viewer. The changes there are constant and unappealing. It is not the grid or the activities therein. It is the inaction of the team of Linden Employees who deal with abuse on the Second Life servers. Many of you who read this are land owners, estate managers, or at least at some point throughout your Second Life you have been forced to deal with a griefer. The frustration of having to deal with these children who think it makes them look cooler or whatever their motivations are, to crash sims, fill up parcels with boxes and sounds, can be very annoying. What is worst than dealing with a griefer though? Dealing with the people who are responsible for stopping and preventing these kids from doing what they are doing to begin with. Try this out for yourself. The next time you are being griefed or your sim is crashed. Contact any one of the many Linden employees that are online. The response will be the same. "Please file an abuse report.". OK so file your abuse report and see what happens. Usually within minutes you will receive an email thanking you for your abuse report. Though sometimes it may take upto 24 hours before you get this email. Now what happens? Well you get griefed a whole lot more. Your sim keeps crashing. The griefer is free to do whatever they like for as long as they like. Linden Lab takes their time and may look at your report within a few days. They may not look at it at all. But what happens if you kick it into high gear? Lets say you send a report every time the griefer comes to your sim to crash it. lets say 20-30 times a day? Or what if you report the griefer for every prim they have griefed you with? Which could be in the hundreds? The abuse team quickly jumps to action and informs you that if you continue to file abuse reports you will be banned for harrasment of a Linden.?!?!?!?!?!?!? So after 6 years of being in this virtual world, I have noticed that nothing about the way griefers are handled has changed. The people who are victims are treated like the aggressors and the people who grief are ignored by the staff of this great world. I am sorry Linden Lab, but I strongly feel it is time to rethink the way you act(or dont act) to abuse reports. It is time for a change that allows the paying residents of this world to feel some sort of security. And i think it is time that people who grief are banned. You have the ability to completely block computers from accessing Second Life. I say use it. Griefers Guide Book? Actually you are sorta wrong here on some things geo, let me explain everything I know about griefing so far. 1. There are many types of griefers some people use Sim Crashers, Objects to crash sims, laggers, Graphics Card Crashers. Then you have the griefer which I sometimes call the player, or the Mind Fracker, basically they use their friends, and other people around them act like an angel get their trust to use them to get revenge on innocent people or people who haven't really done anything, (This is the type of griefer I have the most type of issues with, I wont discuss it here, but these griefers you usually find in Role Play sims.) Then a third one I can think of is the LULZ griefer, basically a LULZ griefer is someone who griefs people for the laughs nothing more they just do it because they can like a Black Hat Hacker, they will find things people post online, Gather Information which is why I say stay as anonymous as possible, troll peoples social sites, etc. 2. I agree on some of the things you said. 1. Linden Lab has declined since 2008, I remember back in 09 when I called Linden Lab and reported an issue even a griefer sometimes I got Linden Lab's help with the issue if it was something important this was before I learned how to deal with a lot of things on my own mostly GRIEFERS on my own Estate. But anyways now if I call them 99% of the time you are right its File an abuse report, unless the region is very messed up then they might come down and check it out if I tell them I cant do anything about it etc, or sometimes I was told to file a ticket and let them know. 3. Linden Lab banning griefers? 1. In 2008, I was a N00b to the grid, I remember my first suspension from SL was childish because I was on the Teen Grid I put a lot of follower yellow subs in the sandbox got me a 3 day kick, but I also got hardware banned at certain points I used to be one of those people who would use a lot of tools, and huds to attack people and play with that type of stuff in sandboxes a lot. Back then I knew nothing about SL, or any alternate viewers, or ways to change my IP address ,or unban myself from Second Life. 2. It is possible for LL to ban a users IP/MAC Address, however it is also easy to get around these days, To be exact I have myself at my disposal a list of over 30 thousand IP Addresses, a little program that spoofs my MAC, and Hard DIsk serials for any game including Second Life, therefore I can always change my info on the fly for example if I choose to make an account and actually harm someone I could without worrying about the ban or concequences for my actions. (Do I abuse it no.) I just know because its things I have learned over the years after becomming a tech in computers, and learning some software and such. ** Sure I get accused of being this griefer, or that griefer all the time by Ignorant people because they don't know me and just knowing about such makes me guilty you see.** The only other thing you have to remember is to clean out your SL Cache folders, or rename them each time otherwise LL can lock on to your accounts and find out who all your accounts are reguardless of spoofed info. 3. I am not the only one who knows this however almost every griefer out there Laughs about bans because they come right back with a new account in under 60 secodns and do it again get banned even I have seen griefers assault linden lab employees on Lulz raids on private Estates a linden actually sat there logging off peoples accounts one after another couldn't get the person lol. 3. However if you grief a region lets say of someone who owns more than 10 sims watch out! I have quite a few griefers recorded on video including some griefers who have griefed some big sim clusters before and in like 5 minutes after a griefer attacked and crashed like over 80+ people I would say Linden Lab's banned them, did they get the person obviously not because they came back and talked to someone I also happen to have logs of quite a few griefer incidents posted online getting laughs at some ignorant people and LL does actually respond pretty fast at times, however as I said the person who did the griefing didn't get perma banned, and the party/event was ruined. 4.How you can deal with griefers. 1. Determine the type of attacks being used against you. 2. If you own the Full Estate, or have Estate Manager Rights, and you know the name of the griefer. Admin, Good Tools, Target, Set Target, Delete all of objects on region, Kick/Ban from estate, repeat as necessary, however note that if you accidently make a mistake the items are gone for good unless LL does a rollback. For Graphics Card Crashers, you can always just derender them, or ctrl alt shift 1, 2, 9 depending on the way the crasher is working. IF you like to hang around a sandbox buy this. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Stop-Right-There-Crasher-Scum-Anti-Crasher-HUD/3561107 Spammers, use viewer anti spam, Text spam open up a chat box make it small. 5. There are things Linden Lab can do to prevent griefing, I have urged LL many times to do such, but people keep debating me on the issue, and I swear had LL have done such, it would have saved me so much griefing over the last year or two. 1. Go back to age verification with ID, * Yes there are ways around for false payment information, and ID, but I could not for instance create 100 accounts and verify them all with false ID very fast like I could now if I wanted to register 100 bot accounts using proxifier I could and I could just put any birthdate a disposable email, and bam 100 age verified accounts can go to age verified sims and grief residents right? ** I know people complain about it, but it prevented kids under 18 from accessing adult content, and it also kept griefers from making so many accounts to grief when people set their regions to adult only.** OFF TOPIC a bit... 6. But some people deserve to get griefed? Yes thats right each to their own on this one, but let me tell you what I do. Sometimes and it is rare I actually see it, but sometimes people grief others for an actual reason, betrayal, backstabbing, or serious hurt personally if I see that and know its for an actual cause or someone getting revenge, let me tell you what I do. As long as they are not harming a bunch of innocent people or targeting them, I turn my back and pretend I didn't see it as long as I know there is a damn good reason for revenge. Then I get up off my chair, I actually have a small fridge full of cokes in my room, and and a popcorn bowl, so I get my popcorn, I hit camtasia and start filming, I just sit back and enjoy the show as if I never saw it and get the laughs... ** See people might think of me as being bad for this, but you know its their problem and if they have pissed me off, or are a griefer themselves getting their behind kicked by other griefers then they had it coming.** (( I do not ever enoucrage griefing or ask others to do it because its against the TOS, if they want to risk a ban so be it.)) 6. For those who are super trolls/griefers, hardware freaks, or beta testing, there is even something better than griefing and that is having a Gun, and Ammo ready at all times and being prepared. 1. Lets say I have to actually put that clip in my gun and get ready to fire, I can do it on a moments notice any given minute, any given time. As I said, and as my profile says I am not a dummy, I work computers, I pretty much have a computer lab here. I have a 30-50mbit connection with an IP that changes if unplugged for 24 hours, and I also happen to have two over modems as well with different ISP's great tools too if you want to go undercover, or some griefer actually gets my IP and DDOS me for example should that happen I will let them DDOS my pc, call my ISP and tell them someones ddosing me please help meanwhile I switch one of my computers to my other modem bam new IP address, connect behind a VPS server, or VPN service, and Bam more stealthed IP address, and let me tell you... I have more than that. I also have two Operating systems installed on two seperate drives on this PC at all times, usually 3 drives backup, if at any time someone actually gets my behind click a switch on my computer restart click another switch and bam computers back online virus free... And lets get more pro than that, Disposable Telephone numbers, youk now for when you have to make a lot of GOOGLE accounts to troll someone you just hate so much telephone verifcation lol its just fail when you get someone who knows their stuff :3. Now people are gonna yell at me... Goth you are mean, Goth you are a bad person, absolutely not. I am a gamer, I sometimes have to deal with Troll clans, or griefers doing stuff for the laughs. See this isn't the old days when you didn't have that many griefers compared to today now you got bigshot kiddies running loose not just in SL but other games similar to SL sandbox tiles mostly, however in most games if I ask a GM to do something they usually do it for me if its a damn good reason like dealing with a troll because I Beta test so many games you wouldn't have no idea of course there is a NDA agreement with those, and I am not talking about preorder games from gamestop become a Beta tester thing either ^^. Funny thing about it all is I get threats, I am going to call the Police, I am getting a Lawyer, well guess what... The police really don't care much unless its a threat of terrorism they really don't have the time to deal with senseless trolling. In fact the biggest thing unless its a Real Life threat or stalker taking this to real life, they dont' care, and to be hoenst the worst thing that can get you into trouble in SL is copybotting, but even then a good lawyer could get you off in certain cases if you know the legal system and stuff like I do and don't screw up with your griefing generally for the most part creators can't do crap to you but get your account banned from SL although Rules of the internet say. (There are no real rules about moderation Enjoy Your Ban.) There is really no such thing as a real ban sure you can get someone banned they loose some stuff, but the real griefers who are here to do the harm don't care you see. ** Oh yes and good luck getting a court order for disclosure of inforamtion because you got butthurt by a griefer online as long as they have not made RL Threats of any kind, not much you can do.* Even if you managed to follow all the cats, then the griefer someone who happens to know their rights could fire dem lazarz back because now in a court they would know your identity too you see.** *** See even the police make mistakes when they Raid The wrong house lol...*** http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48018051/ns/technology_and_science-security/ <<< Now that is fail, so see here is what you have to ask yourself about BlackHats... As long as there is Free WI-FI, you can cover your tracks, and as long as you remain Anonymous you are safe... However for the owners of the WI-FI they might have some serious talking to do if someone illegally uses it. Its similar to this http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Download-lawsuit-dismissed-RIAA-drops-claim-2586307.php Grandmother gets sued cuz some kid uses Kazaar on her WI-FI, but wait... Who gave these torrent programs to all the kiddies who actually gave them away? someone had to give them to the kids to use, and most teens dont give 2 cents about copyright they dont even care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJV0xhVKINQ I know this is long but it will explain a lot about the griefers, and personally, I don't tolerate any type of griefing, or CopyBot for that matter. I have hated it for years of how people can grief lots of innocent people, so I ask those who think LL needs to give something like ** Age verification with ID required to become verified back** OR require Credit Card to sign up it wouldn't stop griefing but it would sure slow it down a lot compared to now. I sugguest you keep complaining to LL about it maybe they will. And yup offically I am the Insane/Crazy kitten, but there are others like me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Seems like a lot of the griefing stuff is seen as 'neighbor squabbles' and ignored. I think there should be a committee made just for dealing with ongoing griefing. Including neighbors having disputes, if it falls into the area of griefing (purposeful prim or particle encroachment for instance, or purposely rezzing things to annoy the neighbor, or drive them away from the sim.) But it seems like this is not an area LL wants to allocate funds for. With mainland prices at almost free, I think they need to encourage people to stay, not allow them to be driven off by someone who's usually new, doesn't own land or doesn't own much land, or new to the sim and hoping to pick up the other parcels cheap by driving people away. It's madness to leave land owners unprotected this way. I've noticed that if you or others (ETA I don't mean 'you' but the land owner or their guests, separately) AR something the team responds well and fairly quickly but if it is ongoing they tend to turn away from it. Yet it's the ongoing stuff that really tends to drive you bonkers. I did notice that if you get a good person in live chat they tend to try a bit harder, but some of this stuff doesn't happen during live chat hours. Then what. Yeah it does kind of baffle me to be honest. I don't know why it is this way. I can't really guess, because I only have one place to really run, but I do try to stay on top of things, if they are reported; if I ignored people's complaints they'd stop coming there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yea I feel your pain as well. We have been thru it the same. My wife and I struggled almost on a daily basis with greifers. Sometimes it wasn't so bad, But when it got out of control. it was unbearable. The lack of response is basicly why I sold my last business, When some say it is a result of squabbles. I have to say, squabbles are fine and dandy. it is when the squabbles turn psycho and they attack instead of going their seperate ways.. Squabbles gives no one the right to attack anyone. As well as does not give the G team the right to ignore a squabble gone bad I guess when the average player gets the feeling none of their reports are taken care of. Then they all stop reporting anything and the grid gets worse, and less users stay signed up and hang around because they get hammered... Residents just walk by watching the attack rather than report and help, why would they when they have a sense nothing happens anyway lol. "Squabbles Gone Bad" sounds like a good reality show to VH1 or Bravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Dilbert Dilweg wrote: Yea I feel your pain as well. We have been thru it the same. My wife and I struggled almost on a daily basis with greifers. Sometimes it wasn't so bad, But when it got out of control. it was unbearable. The lack of response is basicly why I sold my last business, When some say it is a result of squabbles. I have to say, squabbles are fine and dandy. it is when the squabbles turn psycho and they attack instead of going their seperate ways.. Squabbles gives no one the right to attack anyone. As well as does not give the G team the right to ignore a squabble gone bad I guess when the average player gets the feeling none of their reports are taken care of. Then they all stop reporting anything and the grid gets worse, and less users stay signed up and hang around because they get hammered... Residents just walk by watching the attack rather than report and help, why would they when they have a sense nothing happens anyway lol. "Squabbles Gone Bad" sounds like a good reality show to VH1 or Bravo Squabbles sounds like a good name for the next breedables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansiri Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 That inaction affects on innocent residents as well. At least i have one experience... Once i was feeling funny and had a pineapple avatar on.. One of groups i was in called for some event and i went there to see what's happening, but just a few seconds after i tped there i found myself bouncing in the air and banned. I IMed the guy who did it and he took the ban away, and explained that there had been some griefer sending objects to that place and he thought i was part of it when saw my avatar and he told he'd been reporting the griefer many times but nothing happened. I can believe people become very suspicious of everything if there's griefer around and they get no help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinda Fallen Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 When filing an A/R it helps to include as much info, proof, and documentation as possible. Include screen shots, photos, copies of open chat and IM's if they include threats that concern the incident. They can not do anything with he said, she said implications as to what may have happened. If your sim is going down 20-30 times, i can assure you LL is more than concerned. I think it was a sad day when LL started free accounts, and there's room for the unlimited creation of alts for the 10-15 min needed to do a good grief. Perhaps one premium account could have room for 3-5 sub accounts for necessary alts, but the totally free system of SL accounts, has led to insurmountable problems in this game. It would also be nice if you banned one avatar from your sim, all of its alts were banned as well. If it takes a hard drive ban, so be it. If all else fails, i can advise picking up the phone and calling customer service, they have always gone out of their way to help me, for many problems i have experienced in SL, but file your A/R first, or they will advise you to do that, and it starts the entire process all over again. SL has become progressively worse over the past 5 years, so many wackos, so few people to even bother to get to know, much less having friendships form. To run a club you have to pay people to come and enjoy your establishment and entertainment. It's not how it used to be, and i miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffe Slingshot Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yes,its obvious that the linden team must be more active,especially against griefing in sandboxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karla Torii Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 and it happens every day with nothing done in fact for weeks now i have eported a group of avatars at an infor hub who spend hours there using weapons, threats and sexual chat with anyone that is unfortunate and tps in, they gang up and hit people with sticks...not one report has been acted on, and these antisocials who are practicing in SL fo RL get away with brutal treatment of those who do not tp out fast enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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