Six Igaly Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Today i decided to visit all the places on mainland i once owned. From first to last. I thought it would be fun to see how 'my' properties are looking today. It did not take long to realize i gave up on visiting old land and was focused on what is going on there. It goes to far to say i was shocked, i follow the news. But what i found was disturbing. Take a look at this pic.Unbelievable. And to think this is just a part of it all. And about everything that is for sale seems to be for sale for just L$1/m. Dang, my first 512 Oceanside cosseted me 32k back then!Oh i know things change with time, but this seems ridiculous to me. It seems Mainland is dying. But hey, what is SL without Mainland?For now i refuse to believe LL is letting the Mainland die on purpose. Or is it? Or are they just waiting till some one comes up with a brilliant solution? Like, let me give it a shot..LL buys all land that is for sale now. Then everyone that is left will be bought out so all mainland will be empty. Then LL joins all parcels per sim. From that moment on you only can buy complete sims and you never can sell unless it is still one plot. And most important, tier is max US$15 a month.And note, people that where forced to move out have first choice and can claim land for free. Would this bring Mainland back to life? Or do you have other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claireschen Hesten Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 i wonder which continent that is because i swear Jeogeot which i'm on now is far worse for the number of plots forsale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Sands Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Looks like Satori to me. Well, when you look at a whole continent, a view like that with lots of parcels for sale isn't that surprising. I think it was always like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six Igaly Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't recall the continent, but like i said, this is just a small part of it all. i instantly believe it is far worse over there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six Igaly Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Oh for sure, there always was land for sale a lot, especially on new land..but that was sold in days. And then, my concern now is, most of the land is for sale for just L$ 1/m. So if all the land is that cheap (way cheaper then when i bought my first), why is it for sale on this amount? With those prices you should think land was rare, so expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Sands Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ok, it's not the whole continent, but one third of it. That's still a big landmass. At least far more than what I would call "just a small part of it all", unless you refer to the complete landmass of all continents counted together. I still find it pretty common to see so many parcels for sale at a mapscale like this. The initial price for land was much higher in the past, but what really counts is the tier and nothing has changed about that. All in all the proportion of land for sale looks not much different to me than back in 2009, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Abandoned land in the past showed as owned land when viewed from the map. Now it shows as for sale land. - In effect, there is actually a lot -LESS- resident owned land for sale now than there used to be. BUT... What we do not have any data on, is how much abandoned land has changed. Was there more before, or less? I suspect there is more abandoned land now - making up for the lesser amount of resident for sale land. People "giving up" sooner. - But can't be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 for comprehensive info on SL land then Tyche Shepherd is the go to lady http://www.gridsurvey.com/index.php + latest June survey figures show: 44.8% of mainland is owned by linden 77.8% of linden owned mainland is protected land/public spaces 2.4% ownership is undeterminable - probably linden owned accounts 17.2% of linden owned mainland is Linden Homes. 42,642 parcels. 97.7% occupancy + 6.6% of total mainland is marked for sale + the calculation is that 8.8 to 9.8% of mainland is abandoned this compare to the previous March survey when the band was 7.2% to 8.8% + eta: Linden Homes have had an effect on normal mainland ownership. seems like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Sands Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think you're right, Pussycat. Before LL reorganized the market for land, everybody could try to buy land for a good price and sell it with a decent profit. As a result we had lots of people who dealt with land and that was of course rezident owned land. But that kind of business is much harder now, because you have to compete with the constant flow of cheap land povided by LL, who throws abandoned land on the market for 1 L/sqm after a week, instead of leaving it abandoned and empty for a year, like they did before. LL's new approach also encourages people to abandon land instead of trying to sell it, because it's difficult and unlikely to make a profit with a sale. And since more and more people already bought their land for 1 L/sqm, they have less to loose when they abandon it than someone who bought land in the old days for several L/sqm. As a result, we have more and more land that is abandoned and then sold by LL for 1 L/sqm after a week than land that is sold from rezident to rezident. I suppose LL makes a nice extra profit with this land that is given back to them. Much more than they made in the old days. All in all this change didn't effect the proportion of land for sale. In my neighborhood there's rarely land for sale. Most of my neighbors have been there for years, and the few who left were replaced by new ones after a very short while. No need to save the mainland here in Jinx and surrounding regions for sure. Quite the opposite: In the old days I had a good amount of abandoned parcels right next to my home. Some of them were empty for more than a year. Now everything in sight is occupied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Snook Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 LL could start by making tier steps smaller and giving away the first 1024 to premium. You can't do much of anything on a 512. Plus a lot of those parcels are inky dinks < 512. I have a land seller who has a 300m next to me (waterfront). It's been for sale for every price from $1L / m (which is what she paid for it when it went abandoned) to $20/m. I laughed at that then she put up the huge rotating sign which made it obvious she was trying to blackmail the neighborhood into buying. An AR from me and my neighbor stopped that approach. But it's still for sale. Back down to $1.25L/m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Pondering here... IF we assume the amount of land 'not in resident control' is about the same - or even that for sale land is about the same. - BUT that its more lilkely to be being sold by the lindens now as abandoned 1/m land... Then this whole move to make abandoned land go for sale has essentially been a sneaky profit grower for LLs that also makes it VERY HARD for any competitors to compete. Competitors can only compete if they stay within special zones... I do know that there is almost -NO- abandoned land in Zindra. The few land barons there work very hard to snatch it up and relist it. - Before you think of them as scumbags for doing that, consider that if they didn't, other people who own land on Zindra would be in as bad a position as folks on M/G mainland are - unable to sell their land for anything above 0.5L/m unless they have some special choice spot like Bay City or Nautilus Island... (which are also partly kept up by land flippers). This is actually part of why I moved to Zindra despite not being part of the 'A' community... for how some side of the many side effects of the flippers actually benefit the locals around them when the flippers start acting smart. The flippers / land barons can pull this off there, and in the M/G double prim places - because those places are small enough that residents can organize (intentionally or by happenstance) into coalitions designed to keep the abandoned issue from taking hold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It isnt just mainland.. Take a look around on the map there is yellow everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Perhaps LL is just waiting to see what happens with all this land for sale at L$1 / sq.m. From what I see around me, it's not selling quickly at the moment. I think the answer would be to raise the tier-free limit to 1024 sq m and also lower tier rates a bit. That way we residents would benefit, LL would make some money and the mainland might look a bit nicer as a result. But I don't suppose LL would take the plunge and change tier while there's still the possibility that the land market might revive. It's always possible one or two big outside 'investors' could go round buying up lots of L$1 land in the hope of selling it on for a small profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothGirl Demonia Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well in my opinion what destroyed Main Land is Land Rental companies who bought out all the land first, and then resold at high prices people still do it, and I remember the Teen Grid when it was like this prices insane. The only thing I like about main land is the fact you can't get banned from the entire sim lol the only great thing about it you get banned from a parcel yeah but you can still visit your neighbors and friends I say this because there are so many stuck up people in SL who get group owner rights, or Parcel rights then say " I did it because I had the power to do so" so I will do as I want and especially at clubs in SL say Jerry Jerry again lol. Anyways MainLand in my opinion is kinda a waste of space and profit for LL when they are not making money off of it, LL usually wouldn't care as long as they are making money off of the land aka tier and someone holding it, however the problem I see and the things that turn me away from mainland is some places are laggy as hell have to turn down draw distance to 128/300 less than my 512 I keep it set at, and other than that issue the fact it is often cut uneven, or in jagged edges or some crap not usually good land at all but parcels often very small cut and someone in the middle or something with a 16 SQM plot or something crazy like this whats the point maybe a server area for a box or prim or something other than that no use. What would really help LL as far as wasted money is less MainLand if it is costing them a lot to host the servers, and more private sims at the old tier fee or something, maybe instead of mainland offering a subscription for light server rentals at like $16.99 a month and can get the ability to place a house and some furnature in an instance similar to Runes OF Magic, or Final Fantasy IV, and can have like a max of 5 avatars with them or something would be a great way to get more profit I think, even more privacy for those who really don't want to own a lot of land or use SL that much. OF Course there needs to be mainland still, but from the looks of it there is a bit too much MainLand, and MainLand sandboxes are great when you don't got griefers hitting them, and also vehicle areas to drive tanks in its too bad that there can't be like tank combat mainland sims where people follow rules etc for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six Igaly Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Abandoned land in the past showed as owned land when viewed from the map. Now it shows as for sale land. - In effect, there is actually a lot -LESS- resident owned land for sale now than there used to be. It shows for sale now because when land gets abandoned it is dumped on the market for L$ 1/m very quick. Before, abandoned land just stayed abandoned for months. I'm not sure if it makes any difference if the available land is resident owned or LL owned. If none of it will be sold it is just as useless, regardless who tries to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six Igaly Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 16 wrote: 6.6% of total mainland is marked for sale Well i'm not sure i will rely on this figure. 6.6% of the total seems like it is almost nothing. But how many % will it be if you only talk about all the land that is available or could be available for the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six Igaly Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Oh for sure Mainland must stay. Not sure though if it is too much. It could be used in different ways. Less residential areas, more nature for instance. Or huge sandboxes. Or even the possibility to fight wars on a combat continent in order to obtain land (and then try to stay there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigren Panthar Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The problem is tier......or rent, as it actually is in reality, despite the spin word 'tier'. Tier is another way to get 'rent' off the silly people who think they have 'bought' land. However, the western hemisphere economies are nose diving. In the UK, the foolish 'peasants' waved flags in support of a single family who are the biggest benefit scroungers in history, despite unprecedented and draconian cuts to the population's basic living conditions and a third world health service. Who says you can't fool all the people all of the time? By comparison, China put a woman in space orbit and sent a sub to the bottom of the marianas trench the same week. People are struggling to buy food and petrol in RL, never mind paying exorbitant virtual land fees to LL who couldn't give a damm about you in any case. Therefore, the best people to buy any land in SL are the dough-brained, sheep-like english if you stick a pic of Liz Saxe-Coburg on the sign, or the chinese, who - at this rate - will soon own america in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Everyone has to own a full sim and the tier is $15 a month? I don't see how that would solve anything. The Lab needs tier to pay its bills. Not everyone wants a full sim, even if tier were $15 a month. If everyone owned one, there wouldn't be any rental market. So there would be no reason to divide up the land to rent or sell it. And the problem would be the same or worse in actuality as far as the Lab bringing in tier. And as far as resources, empty land uses far fewer than if it were all filled with 'stuff.' So you'd have more of a resource drain and the Lab would be making less money. Unfortunately the world economy is in the toilet, and there's not a lot we can do about that. I think it will actually get worse. There are some different things that could be tried but I'm having trouble figuring out what you identify the problem as. What do you want the mainland 'saved' from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 "I remember the Teen Grid when it was like this prices insane." It still is insane. I'd like to own another parcel in the former Teen Grid but people are asking 150L/meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Six Igaly wrote: 16 wrote: 6.6% of total mainland is marked for sale Well i'm not sure i will rely on this figure. 6.6% of the total seems like it is almost nothing. But how many % will it be if you only talk about all the land that is available or could be available for the market? that is the amount of mainland marked for sale: 6.6%. Tyche just report the numbers as they are if want to try extrapolate the amount of linden held land that could be potentially be for sale then total linden owned mainland - protected land - linden homes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Six Igaly wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Abandoned land in the past showed as owned land when viewed from the map. Now it shows as for sale land. - In effect, there is actually a lot -LESS- resident owned land for sale now than there used to be. It shows for sale now because when land gets abandoned it is dumped on the market for L$ 1/m very quick. Before, abandoned land just stayed abandoned for months. I'm not sure if it makes any difference if the available land is resident owned or LL owned. If none of it will be sold it is just as useless, regardless who tries to sell it. That's true, but it eventually it used to end up being auctioned at prices in line with the bottom end of land market at the time. Looking round, with so much LL land on offer at L$1 per sq m, I see some land offered for sale by residents at less than L$ 1 per sq m - I even saw L$ 0.5 on one plot! This collapse in land prices doesn't seem to have hit waterfront mainland yet - I haven't found any waterfront that's abandoned and L$ 1 yet. That's soemthing to watch out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hardly anyone travels around SL anymore via walking, flying or driving. Most people just TP around via landmarks. So having all those for sales...does it really matter? Would it make a difference if the lab consolidates, joined sims, merged parcels just to make less "for sale" signs go away? Maybe if people still explored SL the way they used to years ago, but anymore it's a marketing fest and you only end up in most places because someone told you about it, you heard about it, you searched it or found some sort of LM through something. I've had a private sim for the last 3 years for my store. I didn't own, I was renting to the equivilant of around $320 USD per month. I've been thinking about moving to mainland because the thought of only paying $125 or $195 depending on the space I needed sounded much more appealing. And trust me, every day I get notices from stores that they are closing up shops because they can't afford it. It makes me sad to see some of them disappear and I didn't want to be one of those closures. I finally bit the bullet, and stopped renting my private sim and moved to mainland. I am now paying $195 per month and love it. And I bought up my space parcel by parcel as they became abandoned, so I paid only the $1l /m in all but one parcel which was actually lower, at .6L that someone was selling. I only physically use a small section of the land, I mainly bought the land to join together for the prims so most of the sim is empty for what I own and the rest is owned by random people who rarely sign on and I have way more prims than I will ever need. Honestly, if you 're in it for the money I don't see why more people aren't doing it. To me, the extra money alone is worth it. I love my location, I've had zero lag, neighbors that are rarely around and right on a main road...in case anyone does happen to drive by. I was already cashing out a couple of hundred a month and now i get to add another $125 a month on top of that now that I'm on mainland. So I'm a happy mainlander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Conifer Dada wrote: This collapse in land prices doesn't seem to have hit waterfront mainland yet - I haven't found any waterfront that's abandoned and L$ 1 yet. That's soemthing to watch out for. I see that often, but land flippers tend to beat me to the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Deja Letov wrote: Hardly anyone travels around SL anymore via walking, flying or driving. Most people just TP around via landmarks. So having all those for sales...does it really matter? Would it make a difference if the lab consolidates, joined sims, merged parcels just to make less "for sale" signs go away? Maybe if people still explored SL the way they used to years ago, but anymore it's a marketing fest and you only end up in most places because someone told you about it, you heard about it, you searched it or found some sort of LM through something. [...] and right on a main road...in case anyone does happen to drive by. Because people can TP directly to a destination, those of us who explore Mainland by walking, flying, driving, etc., are generally not especially interested in commercial sites we encounter. Oh, we may get drawn in to a store now and then and buy something that catches our eye, but for the most part, we're just sightseeing. That's not great for the Mainland because its unique character as a large contiguous landmass with infrastructure and a real geographic context just doesn't translate into a commercial advantage (with a few exceptions for certain kinds of products). But as you point out in the rest of your post, it's no disadvantage, either. If I'm teleporting to a store from Search, I'll never notice whether that store is on Mainland or Estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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