Tools and Technology

Thanks

Mesh is the worst thing  the Linden Labs hs down up to date.  The lag  that is causing is horrible.   Any one using this mesh technology on here should read before using it.  There is nothing new about mesh it jsut new on sl.  Linden Labs needs to quickly address thsi lag issue onhere. I been here over 4 years and lag is only gettign worst.

@Broody Flow

You might want to tell everyone what people using mesh should read about. I haven't experienced any more lag than usual myself since the mesh came available on the main grid (Ofcourse I can only speak for myself). What kind of lag are you talking about? There are so many kinds of it.

In theory mesh objects should create less viewer side lag, since the LOD can be set by the creator. On top of that LL has made the prim equivalent rise with size, meaning the rendering cost and prim cost are linked, unlike normal prims or sculpted ones. On a mesh object every face is visible, again unlike sculpted prims, where in a lot of cases the faces are pushed together adding to nothing but the load.

I'd like to add mesh objects look a lot better than sculpted ones and are easier to build and use. All in all I am for a change very happy with LL. Who cares they didn't "invent" meshes, they didn't invent avatars or reflective water or IM or 3D environments as a whole. Does that mean they shouldn't use that? Then we'd have a chatroom. Oh wait, those were invented already, we'd be staring at the desktop of our computer.

my new mesh viewer wont let me online!!! it lets me go thru the process of logging in then when it gets to loading clothing it goes not   and then pops up u have been logged out. plz help me and tell me wats wrong....

Linden Labs is so interested in tweeking the odd stuff, like making the tree leaves show up, that it has completely forgotten the ordinary user.   Most people I contacted to survey opinions about SL report that their highest complaint is very slow rez.  Enter a region and wait 30 min or more for the av in there to be fully in view is way too slow for the ordinary user.

Linden Labs, you are in deep trouble and you show little awareness of the fact that new residents bail out fast and never come back because (1) it is very difficult to get aclimated, move av around, and manage inventory (2) new folks entering are treated like sh*t by long time Residents, and (3) computer lingo and controls have way surpassed LL by so many other sites so that a savy person entering is turned off by arcane and non-standard commands and controls.

I amassed over 150 "friends" in two months.  Only about 20 have ever returned.  And it is not just me, ha ha!  Second Life, with so much promise now, and so much promise missed from 2000 to 2011, is grossly missing the boat on the Internet.   Unless LL has some secret way of making money, I predict SL closing in 2 to 3 years.  

A person only needs to scroll through the Marketplace to know that Intellectual Property Rights are being violated by numerous people within Second Life.  A basic search shows lots of Disney, various sneaker companies, Playboy, the works of artists like Luis Royo, to name a few. I doubt many people actually got permission to use the materials/pictures/names, etc. Yet as I understand it, LL does nothing unless the IPR owner complains.  Wouldn't this make both the content maker and LL liable for potential lawsuits since they are allowing their users to get away with breaking these laws?

After doing the tutorial i am confused, when i started in SL i did what manny people did "recreating existing places in SL".Istripped the buildings from their brand- or company names but the tutorial suggests that you can not build anything that slightly resembles something in RL. I always considdered this something like Google maps Streetview, if you advertise in public it is represented there. When becomes this a violation in SL ? Historical buildings ? commercial buildings ?
And do the Lindens realize how these new features, innovations and ever changing policy has an impact on the existing creations and sold products, if this mesh thing is really much better then scuplty's, i feel sorry for the people who bothered to create them in the past, and for myself, i'm excluded anyway because i can not provide billing information, i earned my place in SL by creating things and selling it, i put many hours of work in it, i rent land so indirectly i pay landfee's. So if this mesh will become a real succes and the new standard, that will be the neckshot for me. And that's not all, Lately the way to set a pay menu is changed (read: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7170? ) to solve a safety problem in a highly unprofessional way, which results in making many sold products not function anymore (malicious products with my name on it, i can not say i'm pleased and can expect many complaints the next few years because it only takes effect when they rez it again).
And then there is this new feature: the max size of the prims is 64 x 64, very nice, but now my earlier creations have an excessive amount of prims, i build skyscrapers, at first ( for obvious reasons) with Huge Prims that where available, then i red an article about people getting banned for distributing Huge prims, so i build them again with 10 x 10 prims, now i can do the job all over using the 64 m prims, what brings me to the ever changing policy on which you can never find real information from the Lindens and you never know if it's just a rumour. I build camping objects, to find out that campers and even people with campingobjects on their land got banned, but i never found any info from the Lindens on this subject. The new Adult rating forced me to split up my business and rent extra land. There is always a fear of getting banned for some reason or change in policy you are not aware off. Sl is not a save place to start a serious project and being here just for fun is made far too expensive, that's why the people leave. In the 5 years i am in SL, i have had lot of partners who quit because of the expenses, i've seen big businesses come and go because there is nothing to gain here, my own sales are dropping dramatically, what all indicates that the interest in SL is dropping in general. What is bothering me the most is the many hours of work i invested in SL for that reason i would not join an opensim server, these things are all temporary, what is left is running a server on your own pc (then at least you have controll ), in time somebody will come up with a system to connect all these private servers, you probably loose the feature to get money for your product, but what the heck, now all my earnings get absorbed by the Lindens.

hello , i am a creator and i want to ask :what will happen to my tattoos-clothes-painting and so on i have create with photoshop pr gimp 2 ? that means we have to stop using them?it took for ever to learn how to use them and pay for sculpts and templates lots of money and now all that will be at no use?

why the game when it changes it is for the worst of those who create and love it? the viewer is worst , the bottons are worst , many amazing bottons are gone , my pc and it is not that old cannot  let me use the new viewer and when extreet was clothe the owners of the game did not care less of us that we had to do all over so much, i hade to make 1000 things all over to fit the marketplace and so many other bad things

so what now? all my tattoos and clothes and my stuff will be  waist of time? can i  make them as i use to and when others wear them  could be seen as good as they are or because of the mesh they will look like hell?

can anyone help me on that? 

i even try to find videos to learn the new way but still nothing as good as before (

sorry for being mad but i do adore the game and i lost many friends because of the new viewer and many good custumers ......................................

@kalliopi

 

Clothing layers are not affected in any way. your tattoos will be fine. Mesh is just an addition, not a replacement for anything. If someone uses an alternative avatar, your clothes will probably not fit, but none will, except the ones made specifically for that avatar. I'm pretty sure most people will keep their old avatar as their main shape for that reason, or their entire wardrobe will be useless.

Viewer? Well I have to say I have used Viewer 1 until recently. I'm used to V2 now, it even performs better, IF it runs, that's true:). There's a viewer 1 alternative though, as far as viewing the meshes goes, for uploads you need V2 (for now at least). The Coolviewer has mesh tech and Phoenix will follow.

LL must be happy concerning the new technology Mesh, but many people can not play the game with it. Many people are complaining about the problem and up to now nothing happened. I can not see any object done by Mesh and i am feeling that LL is invinting me to leave SL. I can use many viewers like Phoenix and old SL (1,23) but the new V2 or V3 i can not use. My AMD XP 2600+ did not help me. I install the program but it does not open. I am sad about this problem and i wish success to LL for the new technology in SL. Good luck!

Ohh , now i realized function sl, so bad i have 1 year in game ,What i can say bad restriction in prim,

Because if its is 100 ppl in one normal prim and all have cloth and another particle ,script,and ,,,and ,all wil say oh so bad its in this game ,lag ,crash ,etc ,

Why LB not put restriction for visit that prim???

Render in sl its so performant and render all fast but its not alocate correct memory usage

 

i have linux my first platform work fast and fine but for all windows its Bad:manvery-happy:

I have been in sl since 2007 and a creator in a humble way.  Frankly I am really fed up.  Why do LL insist on shoving this down our throats?  The more they "fix", the more they "upgrade" the worse this place gets.  Noobs come and go fast these days.   They come, fight the lag and give up.    It used to be fun here...really FUN.  Now spending a hour or two here is a great big pain in the rear.  The sl ecomomy is fading fast and frankly with the roll out of mesh avatars, well...I fear they have just put the last nail in the coffin.   There are clothing designers here who have made incredible things....none of which are going to work on the new mesh avis.  Not to mention shapes and skins.  I'm disgusted.

Hey, LL......just stop fixing things and get rid of the lag so people stick around long enough to improve the economy. 

@Lela: Perhaps you should do your research about the subject before whining about it on a four months old blog post.

Mesh is not going to replace the regular AV shapes and skins. Mesh is used to make more awesome dragons, werewolves, robots, aliens and other AVs that has been mainly made with prims/sculpties so far. Mesh is as Kwakkelde mentioned in a post above an additional tool for content, not a replacement.

So stop claiming end of the world when you clearly don't understand what you are talking about, THAT is disgusting.

i totaly agree with Cyann in this !! ,

and to Lela : if you dont know what you talk about... than just dont talk please !. first do your research , LL never said that mesh is becoming the new sl avatars ! they never said ! first do some research ! and than tell whats disgusting .

Mesh is a joke, We have sculpt what the point of the laggy mesh crap? Instead of all this new release junk Linden Lab does they chould better make all the residents happy and redevelop  viewer 1.23.5!

 

FREE TIPS FOR LINDEN LAB  TO IMPROVE SECOND LIFE!

* Redevelop Snowglobe v1.4.2 and release cadidate v1.5.0

* Abandon viewer 2.0 and 3.0 software directly

* Abandon displaynames directly

* Abandon standaard lastnames "Resident" (for the love of god) directly into the trashcan!)

* Add the lastname generator back for new accountholders and give the allready named lastname Resident accounts the options to pick a desent lastname, Whould be nice!

* Abandon mesh its terrible and has no point at all, Get real sculpt is there allready!

* Quit server weekly updates its compleetly idiotic, buggy and problematic

* Linden Lab whants to make money and is always thinking of themselfs doesnt isten to its customers, Livechat is a joke, XstreetSL "Marketplace" is worse then it ever was just face it continue like this and more and more people will stop playing SL.

 

(When the day comes Linden Lab is blocking my good old viewer 1.23.5 i quit SL as protest and abandon my sim Helion Island.)

@ Lela Aabye

Well said i totaly agree

Good riddance!

You might as well say that you quit listening to music because your 8-track won't play mp3.

 

I Love Mesh, it is so much better than crappy slow buggy (limited) sculpt. I personally hate the Viewer 1, it should be in a museum along with all the other whining throwbacks. Viewer 2 was good, but viewer 3 is now even better!

For those of us that have faster (up-to-date) pc's and graphics cards, we have FINALLY got the old "REDUNDANT" (nearly 20 years old!!!) rendering code brought up to date!!!

I recommend saving your money and investing in a modern PC, because what Viewer 3 can do makes Viewer 1 look like a 16bit DOS program by comparison.

One thing I liked about the  functionality of viewer 1 was the PIE menu.

@Felicia: Thats not true as you might know everybody started with viewer 1.x in 2007/2008 most older residents dont like the new interface look, It is not user friendly and not designed to play sl in a fun way like it supose to be. So if you do like new viewer releases thats good for you but remember that there are also people who simply cant deal with the high amounth of changes LL is making.

 

@Decro: You said you hate viewer 1.x this doesnt make any since at all its obviuosly that you dont have a clue what your talking about but let me explane it very simpl, new viewers have the same screem as older viewers the only change is the user interface thats all so hating viewer 1.x isnt realistic to post it makes you look a bit noobish aswell.

.....thanks for recommend me something and save money to buy a fast pc although its not really needed i allready have one withs is faster then the recommended stats LL is posting under downloads, again viewer 1.x isnt diffrent in your screem then viewer 2.x/3.x at all it is just the user interface!

I have every right to say that I don't like Viewer 1, as I did use it for quite some time before V2 or 3, I have been around a while, certainly not a noob!

Also in all fairness, I did state that the only thing I miss about Viewer 1 was the Pie Menu. But because V2+3 are functionally superior/easier and faster (if you have a graphics card less than 15-20 years old) to Version 1, I could never go back. Also Linden Labs have listened to V1 users, and have incorporated some of the functionality of V1 into V2+V3.

Mesh is really cool, I love it - you can animate it, rig it, which you can't really do half as well with Sculpt.

There is a growing number of noobs out there that have never used viewer 1, and if they were to see it, they would just scratch thier heads and ask Why??? Maybe one day, the continual development of Second Life will render V1 completely defunct as the code is so damn old. The problems that Linden Labs must have having to code for two very different viewers must be mind bogglingly infuriating. I guess that if Linden Labs got rid of Viewer 1, so very many bugs would be eliminated overnight, because they are able to focus on one viewer and not 2.

Jog on! 

@Helle

I have have been in SL since late 2005 in one form or another so I know how the UI used to be. The UI is just the polishing on top of everything. What makes v2-v3 viewers matter is the changes under the hood. You whine about mesh being laggy and then right after state that you love the old 1.23 viewer, using old rendering engines, netcode and whatever. Almost everyone who I hear inworld complain about slow rezzing and texture loading admit using old 1.x based viewers when I ask them.Sculpties is something that should had never happened in first place. LL should had worked in meshes from the beginning as sculpties are so inefficient. Mesh suffers a bit from people who learned to model with sculpties. Them using way too much detail in their meshes. But that is another discussion not needed to get itno right now.

If the UI is what matters most for you have you even given the later viewers a chance? With the UI changes made in the last couple of releases the interface is closer to old 1.x viewers. The sidebar is gone and floating windows are back. You can customize your UI to some degree by selecting which buttons are shown and their locations. The UI is much cleaner than it was in the 1.x days. Some things are still different so there will be few weeks of time to get used to the changes. But after using a newer viewer for a while the old ones will feel antique, trust me on this. They are much more laggy and crashier.

 

Or in other words... Using old 1.x viewers is like keep driving a old leaky rustbucket of car just because you like the cupholder...

@ Decro/Felicia: I am really scratching my head wondering how i can tell you both a way to make it more clear then i allready do, So here we go last time:

1. Get your facts right please, Viewer 1.23.5 is the most stable viewer there is LL knows this in fact you can even onitor this at the donwload page>secondlife.com/downloads>thirth party viewer directory> ..... it shows viewer 1.23.5 as most stable viewer ther listed in the ratings even above the oh so fancy phoenix viewer. Now i shall tell you both that i really do prefer to use LL viewers if they are workable for me the only viewer that i can enjoy my secondlife with is simply viewer 1.23.5 it is easy fun and no updates anymore so no bugs and problems thats also why it is rock stable and nr1 in the TPVD.

2. For the record i had to use viewer 3.x because my viewer 1.23.5 doesnt show mesh, But to again be clear about this i am not impressed by mesh and i also dont see the point of it yes it is slow its all beta wake up guys. just because LL is adding new stuf doesnt mean it is rock stable!

3. The overall point is LL should be fixing problems befor adding new features like mesh withs only gives more bugs and updates, If something is good then hands off! take for example sim servers didnt you become nuts the last couple months from all the updates and restarts?

I stick to viewer 1.23.5 it is the only way for me to enjoy my secondlife, if you dont agree thats fine i respect your opinion and also hope you do respect mine (period) my 2cents.

And in what particular way is mesh slow? In my eperience they load more or less immediately compared to sculpties which take their time as they are loaded in as textures.

No one said mesh was rock stable. As with all things it takes time for things to settle in and bugs be ironed out.In the end we will have a better experience.

About the advantages of meshes you just do not seem to know how they work. To keep this short, the basic advantage is that creators can make more advanced things with less polygon geometry compared to sculpties and regular prims. Meshes also make texturing easier and more efficient if the creators knows what they are doing.

If there is one issue with meshes it is the last part, people must know what they are doing! Lot of creators in SL started with making sculpties and use the same techniques to make meshes. They need to relearn their workflow to make better meshes that don't use so much geometry detail where not needed.

There should be plenty of threads in the forums for you to read about mesh/sculpt/prim comparisions, so no need to repeat everything here.

And about the update issue I would say you are making an issue out of nothing. Would you prefer the old days when whole of SL would be offline most of the day once or twice per month for updates? Much better now as sims go offline for 10-15 minutes unless there is problems. All visitors have to do is tp somewhere else and come back later.

i say give us a chance an if we mess up then make it so we cant uplaod mesh untill we get billing info