What about a CONTEST for the Sansar Avatars?

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I don't see how that applies to what is going on in the current discussion, at all.

If my comments were meant to be personal and negative, they would be directed towards LL anyway for allowing those creations, not towards the creators. As I said, the "lag-fest" items are wide spread.

[Perrie Juran]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I don't see how that applies to what is going on in the current discussion, at all.

If

my comments were meant to be personal and negative, they would be directed towards LL anyway for allowing those creations, not towards the creators. As I said, the "lag-fest" items are wide spread.

---

I'm just stating what I have observed over the years here.

Very few 'negative' commentaries about specific creators and / or individuals get left untouched.

But on a different note I am a firm advocate that it should be mandatory that the render weights for all wearables be listed in the Marketplace.  Too many Ava's are their own unsuspecting vitual lag bombs.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Well, if you don't win, you just sell it in SL, or wherever.

---

I think and hope that Sansar is not going to work with the same  rigging system as SL, where you can only rig to the bones of the existing avatar. So when you make for example a nice furry with rigged ears and a rigged tail, you have nothing you can sell in SL. And the sales options in Sansar and the number of interested buyers there are uncertain as well.

 

[Medhue Simoni]

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AlecDeBoeuil wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Well, if you don't win, you just sell it in SL, or wherever.

---

And hand over 50% of the revenue to LL as a sales tax in SL V2

Alec - to offer financial advice to the less aware

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I seriously doubt the sales tax will be 50%. That would be suicidal, and higher than any marketplace that sells 3D models and products.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Now, TMP, I have no idea who they are, but S_____ is a name everyone knows. So you should probably adjust the name.

---

What kind of warped logic is that? Because

you

don't know a certain product, nobody does? Because

you

know a product everybody does?

Because some product is better known than another we can't discuss it but we can discuss the other?

---

No, that was not my logic at all. 1 of those is just a set of random letters, and the other is an actual name. As I don't know the first 1, how would I know if TMP is an actual name, or just an abreviation? As Perrie, LL is generally pretty strict about calling out products or companies.

 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

 

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I finally got time to peek in-world for a bit and put on this cursed avatar... and now I wonder if we're looking at different models or something. I'm not saying it's good, but I get very different numbers. I'm seeing 197 ktris for the main body, 220 ktris for the hands, and 75 ktris for the feet.

Not that any of these represent responsible use of computing resources. I mean, for comparison, my favourite mesh feet (which were sneaked out long before Slink was even a thing) are only 14 ktris, and there's nothing remotely optimized about that model (but they fit the standard avatar legs

perfectly

 so they're what I wear most of the time).

I take your point about LODs affecting the Land Impact and that being unrepresentative of the impact of avatar complexity in particular; that's a good tip. One reason I'd been using it was that somebody (maybe Whirly?) mentioned that it was essentially the same number as the avatar Draw Weight -- something I never tested, having

given up on Draw Weight in disgust

.

---

Recently, I had a client ask me to rig his mesh avatar creation. It was around 300k triangles. I told him I would not rig it. He begged and pleaded, and I told him that if I did, I'd charge him double, because it's double the work with all those triangles. He told me he was using all those triangles because he wanted all that detail. I explained to him that I could give him all that detail with a fraction of the triangles. Of course tho, I would charge him a bit more. He agreed and I reduced his model by hand down to about 27k triangles, and created a bump map for the extra detail. When I gave it to him inworld, rigged and everything. He insisted that it was not the same. So, I uploaded the original model and set it right next to the 1 I reduced. There was visually no difference, and he had to concede and paid me happily.

Maybe, someone needs to do a tutorial on this.

[Medhue Simoni]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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Long live Ruth!

The real question tho, if you are a true SL historian, is where did the Ruth name come from? lol

 

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Eggy Lippmann remembers way back in 2003 that Steller Sunshine said that Ruth was the god mother of the SL alpha world

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Now, I could totally be wrong here, but this is what I heard. See, most people interested in virtual worlds were a product of the 80's and early 90's, and watched not only all those music videos on MTV, but also watched the first reality show, which was MTV's Real World. In 1 of the Real World seasons, there was a girl named RUTH. It might have even been Real World Hawaii. Ruth was a lesbian and very tomboyish. So, when the SL avatar would go all weird, many people said it reminded them of Ruth from the show.

 

Again, I could be totally wrong.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

No, that was not my logic at all. 1 of those is just a set of random letters, and the other is an actual name. As I don't know the first 1, how would I know if TMP is an actual name, or just an abreviation? As Perrie, LL is generally pretty strict about calling out products or companies.

---

Random letters? It's an abbreviation alright, but one that is more widely used than the actual name. How are you supposed to know who they are? Google "TMP second life" maybe? (Which gives me 3 times more hits than "slink second life" btw.)

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

See, most people interested in virtual worlds were a product of the 80's and early 90's,

---

Where did you get that information? It's just a small survey, but it shows something completely different. So does this  this data released by LL in 2008, which shows most residents were from the 70's and 80's. This one shows the 80's.

I don't know how the numbers are collected or processed, but I suspect the age ranges 18-24 (especially) and 25-34 include a lot of younger people.

Anyway, according to the wiki, Ruth was the code name for the default avatar, so it wasn't the residents who gave her the name.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I don't see how that applies to what is going on in the current discussion, at all.

If

my comments were meant to be personal and negative, they would be directed towards LL anyway for allowing those creations, not towards the creators. As I said, the "lag-fest" items are wide spread.

---

I'm just stating what I have observed over the years here.

Very few 'negative' commentaries about specific creators and / or individuals get left untouched.

But on a different note I am a firm advocate that it should be mandatory that the render weights for all wearables be listed in the Marketplace.  Too many Ava's are their own unsuspecting vitual lag bombs.

---

On that note all rezzables, like buildings, cars, boats and the like, should be forced to list Land Impact or they can't be listed.

I bought a beautiful mesh house, all of their other houses were mesh anyway, would have been nice to have a "date listed" on it, tried to rezz on my parcel and it wouldn't go. Went to a private sand box and it wouldn't rezz.. Went to a full sim sandboox that was empty and it was 4000 bloody LI. Needless to say i was less than pleased. Thankfully it was only 500L.

[Jacki Silverfall]

Whats a Sansar Avatar?

[Qie Niangao]

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Jacki Silverfall wrote:

Whats a Sansar Avatar?

---

Yeah, I think that's a fair question: I still hold out a glimmer of hope that Project Sansar will offer avatars more advanced than we're assuming here. On the other hand, they will have to play within the constraints of the rest of the new platform, such as animation, about which we know a bit more. (That part actually sounds encouraging: animations tightly integrated with the physics engine, among other major advances.)

 

 

To another topic: It would be great if all Marketplace listings stated rendering complexity for avatars and attachments. (For free-standing stuff, Land Impact is crude, but at least it's almost universally shown.) Only problem is, not all products that we've been discussing (ahem) are available on Marketplace. (Gosh, I wonder why, huh?) So that's another reason it's high time Project Sansar does what SL should have done years ago, when they bought-out the other web catalogs: unify the purchasing experience across web and in-world transactions.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

On that note all rezzables, like buildings, cars, boats and the like, should be forced to list Land Impact or they can't be listed.

---

Information is always useful, but what exactly needs to be listed? It would be quite a list to get experienced users some useful data, so big it would be useless to most people. Not only LI, but also the size, not only the draw server, download or physics weight, but also the amount of vertices, triangles, UV vertices/islands, texture amount/size, script count/memory etc. If you make only LI or only draw weight mandatory.... well, we all know SL creators are masters at abusing/cheating the system.

I think the restrictions need to be imposed on a higher level, when models are uploaded or assembled. If you can't rezz a 900ktris motorcycle (which I just saw), there's no need to list everything about it on the marketplace.

Not that I always do it, but if you want to know what you're about to buy, either go see it inworld or buy a demo.

[irihapeti]

is defo most likely I think

am pretty sure that getting ruthed, like getting wasted or being wasted, came bc of Ruthie Alcaide

it could be a mashup as well

"And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God. Pass the tequila ok"

(:

[irihapeti]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

---

Anyway, according to the

wiki

, Ruth was the code name for the default avatar, so it wasn't the residents who gave her the name.

---

i think the thing is what is the origin of the name. Like why did she get called Ruth by whoever named her first

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

If it was the code name, it certainly wasn't invented by any resident, let alone numerous residents who all thought the same.

And that's the truth..Ruth.

or the entire thing:)

[irihapeti]

 

as I said before. before there was a wiki even. You know. that fountain of all knowing thingys apparently. The one that residents keep typing stuff into. But before then. Like way way way waaaaay before then Eggy Lippmann said that Steller Sunshine said that she was called Ruth on the SL alpha world

so the question remains. Who decided on Ruth as a name and why. Some Linden seems like, maybe

but why??? that name ?!?. is the question looking for a answer. Not your answer which is still looking for a question q; (:

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

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irihapeti wrote:

Who decided on Ruth as a name and why.

 

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Probably Philip Linden (Philip Rosedale), he is the creator of Ruth.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Eliminating certain possibilities is a way to find the answer, or at least a way to get rid of rumours and myths...Giving random answers is not the same as providing a solution.

Your suggestion can't be right either since there has never been a second life alpha. There was Linden World, which had the primatar, I'm not sure if Ruth was introduced before the world left alpha stage. There was of course a beta

To my best knowledge, Steller is still working at the lab, so why not contact them if you're dying to know if she was called Ruth, and if so, why. Alternatively, ask her directly.

[irihapeti]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

 

Your suggestion can't be right either since there has never been a second life alpha. There was Linden World, which had the primatar, I'm not sure if Ruth was introduced before the world left alpha stage. There was of course a beta

 

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you actual wrong Mr I Got Nothing Except Well Nothing q; (:

Linden World was a proof of concept to see if would actual work kinda sorta and then if it did to get some serious VC money

after the labbies got it to work kinda sorta then they got some serious VC money then they went to alpha. Was in the alpha that Ruth was born. bc primitar before that in the concept

then when the labbies got it to a point where was worthwhile they went to beta

and then they decide to call it SL

then they invite people to join the beta

and then it went live

+

ps

in absence of Some Linden who can actual remember then I am go with Medhues thoughts. for the inspiration of the name

am also credit Eggy for the name bc he only thinks he remembers Steller saying this. Way way back when they were both on the actual beta. When he had the chat with Steller about it. Who told him on the beta world that Ruth was the godmother of the alpha world, now manifest as a virtual body in the beta world. The virtual keeper and guardian of all virtual things

Eggy doesnt say he actual remembers the convo. He just thinks he remembers. He actual remembers tho turning back into a girl and going waaahh! I am sooooo ruthed (:

he did say this. Eggy did. way way way way way back in the ancient forums. Like before there was a wiki even and when the forums was the wiki and everything else. and Philip Linden was the new resident helpy helperton in them ancient times

so there !!!  q; (:

(:

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

If settling for a rumour is good enough for you.... sure. If you want to know, ask LL or Steller.

Everywhere on the forums, wiki etc, Linden World is called alpha. When it turned beta it was renamed SL, possibly slightly earlier.

____

"Originally, during the Alpha period, the grid was known as Lindenworld. As we were getting ready to launch the Beta, we decided we needed a name that would convey the expansiveness, involvement and complexity we hoped would characterize this world as it grew. We started by debating the merits of a 'place' name versus a 'descriptive' name. We believed a place name would give people a sense of destination, and possibly some added layer of meaning. And we thought a descriptive name would help people understand this new concept of a shared, 3D collaborative space.

"We had a lot of ideas for place names --- one of my favorites was Sansara, which was not only euphonic, but had an interesting meaning in the original Sanskrit, meaning roughly 'ever changing world'. Ultimately, though, we chose to go with a descriptive name, and looked at many derivatives of Terra, Viva, and life. We kept coming back to Life2, and then landed on Second Life as more interesting, more evocative and more what we hoped the world could become as it evolved and grew to be as big as life.

"And that's how it came about!"

– Robin Linden, former VP of Marketing and Community Development

____

More myths (which suggest that Ruth was a primatar...) from a 2004 article.

And don’t forget that your avatar “comes with you”, too. It’s just a 10.000-polygon object (or thereabouts… just to have an idea, a prim cube has 6 faces, so 6 polygons if SL uses squares, or 12 polygons if it uses triangles. Older graphical engines only used triangles), highly difficult to draw correctly, and as you know, SL deals much better with avatars than with high-prim objects!

The trick, according to Eggy Lippmann, is that we actually are all “Children of Ruth”. What does this mean?

Well, according to SL Myth and Legend, Ruth supposedly “really existed” and was one of the first alpha testers. At that time, avatars were built with prims, as everything else, and later avatars were converted to meshes (which we use nowadays). How exactly the “Ruth” avatar became the “first” avatar, is not clear to our myth recorders **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**s://gwynethllewelyn.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/simple-smile.png" border="0" alt=":-)" /> But in a sense she’s our “mother” – that is, ALL avatars start being Ruth, and then settings are applied on top of Ruth’s AV, so that they look like us! Weird idea, huh? Actually, this is what makes SL render avatars superquickly – the application client is something like a “superfast Ruth renderer”. It just gets a small string of settings (200 settings which you set using the Appearance interface – just a few bytes!) from the asset server, and – ta-da! Instant avatars! You just need a few textures for the clothes and skins, they are “baked” (i.e. all clothes layers and the skin are sort of “fused together” in a single texture, and sent to you), and the avatar is done (thanks for Eggy for that piece of info, I really hadn’t figured that out for myself, and I didn’t understand how SL could render so many prims so fast – after all, one sim can only hold 15.000 prims or so, and we know how long it takes to render all of those…)!

_____

So here's the post you are talking about:

 

12-18-2003 06:39

I lost my body shape

I logged on, one day, and was looking like the default noob shape, aka "ruth" whoever she is
I think Steller told me Ruth was the God Mother who looked down into the alpha world, ever vigilant, loving and protective. No, really. They had this projector over at LL and watched the alpha peeps all day long or something.
I also lost parts of other costumes. Now whenever I try to wear the "slayer droid" I get lots of "Clothing / Body part missing from database"

No idea how this is helpful....

____

As for "I have nothing", the same is the case for everyone around here, it seems that I don't mind though and you have the need to fill the void with nonsense.

[irihapeti]

the point is who named her and what was the motivation for the name. like why that name?? and not another

which you conflating with the fact that she does have a name

that you keep arguing about it dont add anything. I think you arguing with yourself really

ps

am not sure why you arguing about the timeline either. Robin Linden said what i said

it was Linden World as a proof of concept. Then they got the money. Then they redesigned for a avatar in the alpha which they made after they got the loot. avatars which LW as a concept never had. Then they renamed it, the alpha, to SL and then went to beta

 

 

[AlecDeBoeuil]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

See, most people interested in virtual worlds were a product of the 80's and early 90's,

---

Where did you get that information? It's just a

small survey

, but it shows something completely different. So does this 

this data

released by LL in 2008, which shows most residents were from the 70's and 80's.

This one

shows the 80's.

I don't know how the numbers are collected or processed, but I suspect the age ranges 18-24 (especially) and 25-34 include a lot of younger people.

Anyway, according to the

wiki

, Ruth was the code name for the default avatar, so it wasn't the residents who gave her the name.

---

She was named after Ruth Buzzi, a short unvoluptuous and ugly actress who played a short unvoluptuous and ugly character Gladys Ormphby, in Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In, but most of you won't have a clue what I am talking about.

Alec - to point out historic facts to the (comparative) youth of today

[Rufferta]

For what it's worth, there used to be a copy of the Ruth avi in the "Old Library Content" at Stillman. I remember wearing it a few times when I wanted to be righteously low-lag. Tried it on this morning, though, and it wouldn't rezz out of zombie mode.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

You know I stopped responding to you since it has always been pointless.

Right now you're the only one that seems to make any sense though.

I think Ruth is named after the biblical Ruth. According to one of the new testament books she's a forefather of jesus. Jesus is not exactly god, although the roman cathoholics catholics might disagree. Wouldn't that be the most plausible explanation to anyone with a god complex?

Or is Ruth named after the steak house close to Linden Lab?

Or is Ruth called after Ruth Street?

Didn't someone in the waaaay old forums say he thought that maybe someone once said that Ruth Rosedale made a mean apple pie?

Kwak - oh hell what do I write here?

Kwak - making myths

Kwak - talking nonsense

Kwak - making too many edits

Kwak - giving plausible explanations