Jean Horten

Well, as long as LL is not willing to offer an option to have the friends list, groups, local chat and IMs in one single floater to have a better overview about communications and save screen space and refuses to make the size of the cam loater changeable, I will not use any of their viewers. By teh way: Web profiles are a no go for me too, now you can't se who is online anymore which is sometimes important if you want to contact land owners or support staff. Ah, I forgot, Q Linden has recently said : It's all about screen space, so I personally think he is talking about the size the floaters need on the scrreen. In comparison to Firestorm V3, the floaters in LL V3.2 I usually need to have open require about 50% more screen space than in Firestorm and spread comm controls and people/group foloaters all over the screen. But, let's wait for the next coming new GUI ROd Humble has announced. what did he say? Ah :Good or bad, it will be glorious. Looking at V3.2 I fear it will neither be good nor glorious, but simply bad, especially when taking Q Linden's statement on Options into consideration..... J.

So rearranging clutter plus putting in the basic mode functions is a big step forward? I don't think so, 3.2 is different, yes, but still bad in regards of usability. Back to Firestorm with it's sane and usable Interface that's not made to attract kids and social networkers. Jeannie

You don't happen to wear a facelight?? Jeannie

Sl, ATI and Ubuntu 11.04, that's a bad combination, ATI is known for not performing well in SL, and ATI is not performing well under Ubuntu 11.xx, so I'd recommend to sell that ATI card and get a nVidia card instead, nVidia works better with Ubuntu 11.xx and with SL under Ubuntu. Jeannie Linux Mint 11 ( Ubuntu 11.04 based), nVidia 590 GTX

No need to worry, there is not even a need to rezz the box. Just wear the box ( cube, bag, whatever shape it has), right click it and select edit. Then move to the tab 'contents' and drag all the contents of the box onto to your inventory. Now, take off the box and move to the new stuff in your inventory to wear the items. Have fun Jeannie

Kaluura Boa wrote: (Entschuldigung für die Fehler... aber sei dankbar, daß ich auf Deutsch zu schreiben versuche.) Du solltest eine andere Viewer probieren wie, zum Beispiel, Imprudence oder Phoenix/Firestorm. Klick hier um herunterzuladen. Danach wirdst du wissen, ob das Problem von der Viewer kommt oder von deinem System... und vielleicht wirdst du auch andere Fehlermeldungen bekommen, die das Problem erklären können. Du sprichst über VFS aber du dürftest niemals Meldungen darüber sehen weil dieses Ding sehr tief in der Viewer steht. Letzte Lösung: Du kannst auch versuchen alles, das mit SL zu tun hat, zu entfernen, und auch alle verschiedenen übrigen Ordner manuell zu löschen und danach eine frische Aufstellung zu machen. (Hoffentlich wird was ich geschrieben habe ein bißchen Meinung haben.) Kaluura, although you don't seem to be a native german speaker your german is much better than the german of the obviously native german speaking op of the thread who should be ashamed to post such bad german here at all, but it seems to be a general trend in the german sl regions that people don't care about grammar or correct spelling anymore at all. Jeannie

What's so hard? I have to open a terminal and type and I am not the keyboard focussed computer user. If I download a tar ball, unpack it and run the shell script, I don't have to type one single letter, same with dragging the unwanted viewer to the trash, everything can be done with the mouse. I said; I want it as convenient as possible and harddisk space is no problem, still 0.9 tb on my HDDs left. Besides that: Why should install something that can be run without any installation? If I wanted to install any single piece of software, I'd use windows...

Why I won't want to install? That's simple, it's more convenient for me just to download, unpack, run ; i don't want the inconvenience of messing around with installed packages and have all my menus full with the different viewer entries, they'd spam my menus. Besides this, getting rid of a viewer that has not been installed but simply extracted and run is also simple: Move it to the trash and it's gone. Jeannie

Wolfheart Manimal wrote: If the Linux viewer was packaged using Zero Install, it would be cross-distro and only a single package would be needed. Zero Install is available in most distro repositories, and is the only real decent cross-distro packaging solution that I'm aware of. Please check out the website and consider supporting this universal Linux packaging solution, one sorely needed by Linux users. http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/ I prefer the 'download and unpack the packaged viewer and run the shell script without installation' way very much and would never install a viewer using any deb, rpm or whatever packaged first. Jeannie

So, here is another silly comment: Are there really people out there who pay hundereds and hundereds of $/€, whatever currency to buy a functionally limited ( no flash enabled), content controlled device just to consume internet content and tweet about their latest digestive problems? Lokking at all the Apple moble devices, I have to say: You get much more value and functionylity for money elsewhere. And remember: SL uses adult content for age verified avatars, this is something that will never be available officially on any Apple product, Apple censors and controls content on their devices in some content nazi style. The app for a very popular german newspaper (Bild-Zeitung) is not allowed to show naked breasts by apple. If you buy the print version of that paper then there are some naked breasts in that paper. Always wondered what the 'i' in many apple product names would mean, now i know, 'i' is for 'idiot'. Jeannie

Sion Pearl wrote: I hate the way there's this huge chat window that won't go away, by the way. I wonder if you can disable that thing. Are you talking about the unified chat window in Firestorm ot the multiple, cluttered communication windows in LL V2? I'd propose to reduce the overal GUI size if the windows are too big, a bigger Monitor might also be helpful.... Jeannie

Wakizashi Yoshikawa wrote: You are aware that 90% of IM's are working like that? Flashing icon in system tray which you open to see who is chatting with you on skype/msn/yahoo etc... I really dont see proble with either that (since i dont have to be spammed with window instead i can read stupid post on group charter and close it right on the spot), nor with tabbed ims interface, so every im/group charter is at the same place (well, apart from regular chat, which again i find ok tho that just might be me...) And sorry, havent run v1.2 derivates since shenanigans with Emerald, can you tell me how comunications are done in v1.2 please. Well, SL is SL,a virtual 3D world, not a control center for various messenger services and in SL, the immersion of the 3D world is most important for me. Look at my Firestorm Viewer screenshot I posted above to see the unified messaging window. Right clicking it and selecting 'Show Graphics' will bring it up in a higher resolution. There is one resizeable window, containing all messages, if it's local chat ( with history and chat bar), group chat, IMs plus friends list and groups, all in one, easy overview, no need to move my eyes around on the screen to possible miss a flashing tiny icon or something someone has said in local chat while I am being in an IM . Unwanted group messages or IMs can be closed by one single click and I don't have to look at different corners of the screen all the time, I am using a 30 inch display here, so my eyes would fatigue from moving around all the time quite fast, an experience I made when I had not given up on LL browsers.... The clutter and waste of screen real estate in the V2 Browser GUI is an absolute showstopper form me and the cluttered comm stuff spread all over the screen plus the stupid, function limiting sidebar and the web profiles are the main reasons for me never to touch a LL Browser again. Jeannie

The most annoying thing about the LLV2 and Kirsten's viewers for me is the cluttered communication, toasts bottom right, flashng icons way down bottom bottom right, the local chatbar bottom left, chat history split from chat bar, IMs and local chat in two windows. Am I supposed to move my eyes all over the scrren to see if someone wants to communicate? That's pure rubbish. I still prefer Firestorm, there I do have all communication stuff in one single floater, which is way more convenient: Jeannie

Wakizashi Yoshikawa wrote: You simply gotta love this kind of posts. Especially with given example as someting as trivial as moving arround. Ever played FPS? Missing one hand or you have hook instead of fingers so you need mouse driven walk? Other hand is bussy with sometin else? (coffee, soda, beverage, sandwitch) I mean please. Explain to us all how movement is much simpler in oh-beloved-God-given Phoenix viewer. Making clear that you will leave SL because of viewer (mind you that nobody actually forcing you or preventing you form using Phoenix viewer), means very little. Your oppinion on viewers is yours only. I think Phoenix have great features, but even I mostly build in SL I would rather go with V2 based because I really dont need stupid features such as "Oh mighty Phoenix show me who is looking at me and who is checking my attachemnts, so I can rant at them". I for example think that Kirstens S21 viewer blow the living hell out of Firestorm. However Im not preaching about viewers nor starting debate who has bigger... errr... viewer. What exactly you are missing from latest beta when you switch to Advanced mode comparing to e.g. 2.5.2/2.6 ? If this is random rant about how you hate v2 and love obsolete and laggy v1.2x derivates then this complete post is quite pointless... I'd use Kirsten's S21 if it would not have the same cluttered unuseable GUI like LL V2, cause I get insanely high FPS in Kirsten's. But what's insanely high FPS when you can't use a viewer due to everything that is not stuffed into the sidebar is being cluttered all over the screen? J.

Joseph MacAlpine wrote: If you are interested, vote for this JIRA: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16731 If you really want to access SL from your overpriced functionality restricted mobile apple kid computer devices, look here: http://www.pocketmetaverse.com/ J.

Shockwave Yareach wrote: I have run both ATI cards and Nvidia cards. My own opinion is... I am never going back to the ATI cards ever again. Period. Their implementation of OpenGL is poor at best and causes many of the bugs you hear about in SL (such as the triangle problem). Updating drivers with ATI involves uninstalling the drivers, starting up in VGA mode, installing the new ones, and HOPING that the new drivers work because you are otherwise stuck in 640x480 mode unless you find the previous version and roll it back. ATI was nothing but trouble for me and Catalyst, for all its good intent, falls way short of the "one driver for all" solution (may work for your card or may not.) Whereas my GTX260 and later 460 cards have never had a problem with OpenGL, were a snap to update drivers on, and have created excellent graphics. And with the 460 cards or newer, you can use the CUDA cores to speed up things like video rendering and encoding. If you are looking to spend top dollar, consider the latest 500 family cards from Nvidia. But for SL purposes, the 400 family doesn't even break a sweat and costs much less. But anyone in SL, my advice would be to totally avoid ATI entirely because their cards are more problematic, glitchy, and work poorly on ANY OpenGL program. ATI views OpenGL as obsolete and would like to ditch it entirely because it draws resources away from supporting directx. So their grudging implementations of OpenGL have been somewhat less than stellar. Whereas Nvidia doesn't seem to care if it's OpenGL, DirectX or some old DOS program from the 90s -- you wanna run it, run it. /me looks at her garbage can and sees her old ATI 5770 there. I agree completely, ATI and SL is not recommended, ATI cards might be okay, but the drivers are pure garbage (ATI drivers are like the LL viewers, if something would work, noone would offer third party solutions) . If you want to use Sl without graphical glitches, don't buy an ATI card, it's like burning money. Running a NVidia 460 GTX OC now and Sl looks much better than ever before. Jeannie

Nice April Fools Day fooling, there are of course no such avatar physics settings in LL V2.6.3 beta. Jeannie

Are you aware of the possibility that you can switch from basic to advanced mode and get rid of the limited functionality in the latest viewer? Noone is forcing you to use something that is not yet finished and was created for absolute newbies. There's a choice, different viewers are out there, be it LL's official viewers (which I refuse to touch since they introduced web profiles and which use a terribly unusable, cluttered GUI) or one of the various third party viewers. My current viewer of choice since January has been the V2 codebased Firestorm viewer that combines the useability of the old V1.x based viewers GUIs with the amazing functions that the V2 code offers and whose developers are refusing to use web profiles as long as possible. What's your choice? Jeannie

Uh, Donal, there are several solutions, but you don't want them.... Why did you ask anyway? Jeannie

Well, Dolphin has always been some kind of unfinished and rough, especially for Linux users Dolphin is really not recommended, as the sound does not even work under 32 bit, because Dolphin is using using FMOD as audio driver, which usually stutters or fails under Linux. Firestorm is based upon LL V2.4 code and will soon be upgraded to V2.5 code too. and uses a massively improved GUI in regards of useability in comparison to LL V2.x, Dolphin V2 or Catznip V2. Jeannie

Canoro, fanatism is what you are doing here, people have the choice, and if people chose not to use LL V2 , they most problably have good reasons to do. One of these reasons is the horrible useability of LL V2 with it's cluttered GUI,communication elements spread all over teh screen, bottom right notifications, bottom left chat bar, separated from local chat history, local chat history separated from the IM window(s) , the non working search ( the present GoogleSearch Appliance is not suitable for in world search, especially not the outdated GSA 5 LL chose, thanks LL for this non working stuff and for removing teh fast, effective and working V1 search), the sidebar that pops out and limits functionality, the communication elements spread all over the screen, the web profiles, which are slow and limit the profile content as well as the functionality that was connected to the in world profiles and finally the huge super slow web applications inside the viewer, the lack of security controls for the web applications in the viewer. If LLV2 was useable, there would be no need for TPVs, it's Linden Lab's Viewer2.x that makes TPVs (not only Phoenix, there are other's too) necessary and so popular. I keep on asking my friends in world which viewer they use and why, and 95% of them say: Oh, I am using TPV x or TPVy, cause I just cannot stand LL V2, it's completely unuseable to me, and I get their point, as I see it exactly the same way, and believe me, I have been trying every single version of LL V2 from 2.0 beta 1 on, and it's overall useability has not really improved since February 2010, it just got pimped up with new functions nobody really needs. Making bad experiences with a software and telling people about these experiences is no negative propaganda, but the trolling that you do here is negative propaganda, for you, not for phoenix, cause you don't provide any reasons why V2 is better in you ropinion, you just bash phoenix users without a reason, and I can understand why your positng has been reported... My choice for months by the way has not been the Phoenix Viewer, but the V2 offspring of Phoenix, called Firestorm, combining the wonderful functions that are under the V2 hood with a really useable GUI, this is Viewer 2 as it should be, except for the dysfunctional GSA 5 in it. Jeannie

Besides SL's main purpose, having an immerse virtual 3d world, SecondLife IS a social network with communication tools, blogs, forums etc , go and use FB, Twitter or play farmville and co if you don't want a imersive 3D world and just want to chat and tweet or are you an attention wh**re that needs to go fishing for compliments by using tweets and FB cause you don't have a RL? By the way, RL: Not everyone wants to link his SL and his RL, so using Authentification tools from FB, Twitter or any other spying and data mining, ahm Social Networkmight not be a good idea. SL is SL, RL is RL, and I certainly don't want to see any of your proposals in.world, WC. Go and play with your social network, let us live our virtual lives in SL.... Jeannie

Well, Dieter, maybe your firewall blocks all viewers but imprudence?

CodeWarrior Carling wrote: I will only ever use an 'official' LL viewer. I just don't trust anyone else with my login info, passwords, inventory, etc. etc. So I have been using Viewer 2.x exclusively since it was introduced, and while there are many things I do like about it, there are several things that I really, really don't like about it, to the point where I rarely go in world anymore, and when I do go in world, constantly get in the way of my SL experience. One thing that is always getting in the way is the undockable local chat window. Whenever I update the viewer, I go into the preferences and change the default settings so that all my chat windows dock into one chat window, and I turn off the 'waste whitespace' feature so that peoples names appear beside their text and not on seperate lines. The 'local chat' window however is considered 'special' for some reason that escapes me, and most other users. I can speak on behalf of most other users because I have seen the voting numbers from the Phoenix viewer and this was one of the most rabidly hated things about Viewer 2. I concur with that view. I hate it because it uneccessarily wastes a lot of 3D viewing area for 2D UI stuff. I have a great fear that we are stuck with it forever because there is a special 'docking' button for it down by the 'local chat' text area, but I don't even think there should be a special 'local chat' area. Local chat is just a scrolling text area where messages are printed and where you can enter messages to be sent into the same window. It ain't no different from a group chat window or other instant message window, and if some programmer or UI designer thinks it is, they need to step back from things and get some perspective. This is probably THE biggest reason my usage of SL has gone from probably five hours a day in world, to about one hour a week. Second Life to me when using Viewer 2 is pretty much a glorified chat program. So much space is devoted to 2D UI when the sidebar is open that I can only see maybe 30 % of the view 'out the window'. The same concerns over screen real estate existed with 1.2x, but I could move windows to wherever I wanted, iconify them, and the local chat window docked with all of the other chat windows. I could see probably 80% 'out the window'. Rodvik mentioned this in one of his interviews. He recognizes that anything that distracts from the 3D world lessens the experience. Well the entire Viewer 2 UI paradigm detracts from my 3D experience to the point where I get my 3D jollies elsewhere. Too bad that you're only using LL viewers, this is a screenshot of the GUI of the Firestorm Viewer , the v2 based project by Phoenix: The Firestorm devs did a great job so far, their GUI is soo much better and more useable than LLV2 and the devs are not planning to include the web-profiles in their viewer. J.

Here I am, the good witch of the north: What do you think? Jeannie