Rya Nitely

Andi, I understand what you mean. But what you are suggesting just won't happen. Regular sellers will never make a pact. Firstly, there are too many of us. Secondly, most sellers don't read these forums. It's too idealistic to expect it to work. There is another thing to consider, even if we did make a pact - we might be working against too strong a force - Linden Lab. If LL have decided on this current rate, and if they are controlling the market then their pockets are too deep because they have the power to print $L. Let's say I followed your advice and put my order at 256 and then wait. Next thing I see the rate go to 260, and a few months later I have three times more L$ waiting at 256. I don't like to have loads of L$ sitting in my account, and I also just want my money. Many people live on the money they make in SL (and anyone who says that people shouldn't be taking this risk is very naive, because SL would never survive without this huge incentive). What happened over Christmas was enough to tell me the market is being controlled. The L$ dropped to 247 (that old long term rate), and then a very fast correction back towards 260. Why would any regular seller want to do this? I'm satisfied with anything under 260, because now I know it could be worse, if LL decided it.

Perrie Juran wrote: ChinRey wrote: Meow2016 wrote: Wish I had not seen this,ugh. I dislike companies taking political or religious stands because then being a patron is supporting their beliefs. Why! Both sides dot this. Time to take a hiatus from sl. Dam In that case you may want to take a hiatus not only from SL but from your computer because this is not LL acting alone, it's a fairly unified US IT industry. If it makes you feel better, their worry about the new immigration policy is not just based on idealism, although I'm sure it's that too. A temporary block against refugees from a few specified countries isn't going to hurt the US IT industry in any way but add the infamous phone call with the Australian prime minister and various Trump statements over the last few years and suddenly you have a trend that is seriously dangerous to their business. Edit: This article may illustrate the problems Silicon Valley fears. I am wondering if the White House contacted Prime Minister Thimble first before annoucing in the press conference they would go ahead and honor the agreement to take the refugees. Or did they figure he'd find out on the Eleven O'clock News? Prime Minister Turnbull, not Thimble And I understood it to be a refugee swap deal. If it isn't a swap, why should America do it? I agree that it would be 'dumb'. - Another Aussie friend

Iren Tinkel wrote: Well, for now there is kinda regulation. Buy orders side doesnt want to put on 267 but Sell orders are filled very fast and tend to get linden more expensive but some power doesnt let it. So personally I feel regulation by putting at 258 in Sell orders side to keep difference 10 ponts between Sell and Buy part. WHat the heck? I dont understand, it is silly. Looks like Buy orders for 268 are filled very slow. So how they get day volume around 80 mln? Where is Linden Lab dollars? Where they sell them? How it is counted? if Lindex is independent from Linden Lab why Linden Lab instant rates depend on Lindex rate? Maybe I look like fool but I dont understand all this. the 10 point spread between limit buy and sell orders covers the fees. For instance, L$150,000 bought at 268 costs $US560, and L$150,000 sold at 258 equals $US560. Anything greater than a 10 point spread would attract traders, and the competition would cause that gap to close to 10 points again. The daily volume of 80 million is mainly being generated by inworld buy orders. These are 'at market' and are filled by our Limit sell orders (currently 258). The limit buy orders (268) are being filled by sellers who don't specify a price - they will sell at the best price on the buy side - not very clever. But maybe (as someone else said) it is LL placing market sell orders. I don't know. edit: to change market buy to market sell in last line.

If the market could move so wildly because some sellers are back from holidays then we would be seeing these fluctuations more often for other reasons through the year, for instance Increased spending around Halloween or season change spending or end of month selling etc., but we had a very steady 260 - 261 for months. Going back further, we had a flat rate for 4 years. There has never been this type of seasonal fluctuation before. Now if LL are no longer controlling the market (and were previously) then all through last year we should have had upswings and downswings if the market is so very sensitive to change in sell and buy patterns. It doesn't figure. But the selling activity - it does look like someone(s) could be intentionally pushing the L$ value back down again.

I don't know what it means or what impact it would have, but a technical failure could explain it. It really surprises me that there are still some people who cling to that sim buy down theory.

It's a very pleasant surprise. Why it went up and has now come down, we will never know. Increased spending at christmas? There are many merchants who experience a drop in sales around this time of year. I am one. I've always thought that people are concentrating on RL spending and real lives. With the LindeX at 250 (and the new daily sell restrictions) I changed my selling routine. I've been selling smaller volumes more often (without cashing out to Paypal). I would be thinking many other sellers would be doing the same - get in while it's good just in case it goes back up again. Many people would argue that we have always had a floating rate, but I don't think so. This market does not behave like a normal market. Remember that almost all buyers are passive - they buy at market. Therefore they don't have an influence on price, but will buy at whatever the market rate is. Anyway, let's see what happens next. It is very interesting.

Nutria2016 wrote: I launched my store about a week ago, with a few products. So far I've only made two sales. I'm sure I could make more sales if I could get more traffic in (which is what these paid advertisements are supposed to be for in the first place), but I'm slowly losing hope. I'd regard myself as successful. I'm about to give up my rl job and live on my SL income (I have 3 stores under different accounts). When my partner and I started creating and selling back in 2008 we had NO expectations, only a little hope. We made our first sale about a week after listing an item on the old MP called Xstreet. We were so excited. We saw this as huge encouragement. Slowly we noticed people coming inworld to see our stuff. Every step forward was met with unexpected surprise and delight, because we never had high expectations. We were humble. And so, feeling highly encouraged, we continued on. Soon our income was covering the tier for a homestead, then two and then three. Then suddenly we found we had an excess of L$, and could cash out. We were overwhelmed by the success. Now, we both work a lot less and earn a lot more - enough to provide a modest RL income. None of this happened through careful planning, advertising, strategies, marketing or high expectations. It was simply good products, word of mouth, and enjoying every minute of it all. And it takes time for it all to happen. Two sales in a week? You should rejoice, feel encouraged, because it could have been none.

entity0x wrote: I think customers need to be educated. I've never believed in 'the customer is always right" - that's a corporate mentality put out to make us workers cater to them. In my own dealings, I believe in "Be courteous, but firm. Educate the customer" However, in our culture, customers have bought into that myth "Customer is always right" but it's about as real as the value of diamonds (also created by a corporation). Customers are generally rational human beings, who are just like you and I. They're not a different species. You are really talking about a very small percentage of difficult people, who may be customers or merchants. But these types are not usually open to suggestion or education.

entity0x wrote: Sometimes I include free gifts in my product packages - and THEY are the cause of lower reviews, so perhaps I should discontinue such generosity. This is the reason I stopped giving freebies. In my mind a freebie is a gift. You have now been around long enough to understand how it feels to get a one star review for the freebie that you gave out of generosity, as a gift. You have changed your tune, but let us not argue about what you said then, and now. I agree with your post. Welcome to our world.

Sassy Romano wrote: From my own experience, quite often, when refunding for whatever reason, especially when it's unexpected, the customer then buys something else instead. If they don't, they don't but they'll remember where they were treated beyond their expectation but we've all experienced the few that are more challenging than others. Even I lost my cool with one once and that takes a seriously exceptional amount of effort. This is my experience. Most people in SL are decent. While there are the occasional jerks, I'm usually impressed by the honesty of the majority. I always refund people because it's easier and more business effective. I avoid the time and energy involved in a drama, and gain a happy customer. I have three stores, and I hardly ever get asked for a refund, so when I do it isn't a big deal to just give and forget. I think of it this way. A customer's loss after making a mistake is bigger than a merchant's loss in giving a refund. Because with digital items, a merchant can just forget the sale ever happened, but the customer has lost real money.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Rya Nitely wrote: I believe the huge amounts of L$ being pumped into the sell side are from the most powerful people in SL - the owners. Looking at the current Sell side, I don't see unusual amounts of money there and the highest amount is for $261. The market rate now is $260. So your theory makes no sense to me. When you have an increase in supply, and demand is unchanged you get devaluation. If there was a huge sell order (of freshly printed L$) a week ago it would be circulating within the SL economy now.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: The rise in the Buy rate started shortly after LL announce the grandfathering deal. It's most likely that a lot of sim owners decided to sell $L's collected as rent to finance the deal. Sim owners have been selling L$ to pay tier and take profit for as long as they have been sim owners. Any money to finance the deal would be either fresh US$ or profit not transferred to Paypal. But the L$ selling would be business as usual, not hoarded L$. I've been involved in discussions here and in SLUniverse where sim owners confirmed this.

In this thread it seemed to me that you misunderstood how things worked. When you say this 'You can wait until the cows come home but you won't sell your $L's unless someone is willing to buy them at the rate you want' The majority of buyers are willing to buy it at any rate that is being offered. They don't influence the rate.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: I know very well how the Lindex works and that most buyers and sellers just use the market buy/sell option when they want instant results. I also see many questions in the answers section from people who 'bought' Lindens using "Best Buy" and wonder where their money is. It's not unusual to get several a day from people who have no idea how a limit buy or sell works. The fact is that most of these people offer not enough RL cash for the $L's they want. That's not to say that there are other people, probably a lot more, that make offer for a bit more $L's for their money that are willing to wait or that have their offer's taken pretty quickly. It's these people that could very well be driving the price of $L's down. What is your explanation for what is going on? The vast majority of people in second life don't know how the LindeX works, and many only think they do. I wonder how many people look at the buy and sell side and think that those are the only orders. The vast majority of orders are coming from inworld market buys. These are a constant flow. These buyers do not specify a price and are getting the top rate on the sell side (260). Most of the activity is happening on the sell side, and we don't see it unless we watch and refresh constantly. I agree that more people (those who actually visit the LindeX) are seeing and using the limit buy option. But this increase in limit buys would not be enough to have the impact we've seen over the past few months. Also, that more obvious limit buy option was not there when the devaluation started back in May when we saw things sky rocket over a few days. This is huge serious money. Nothing else would cause such a drastic sudden change. If it was so easy to infuence the LindeX we would not have had a steady rate for 4 years straight. I believe the huge amounts of L$ being pumped into the sell side are from the most powerful people in SL - the owners.

Nalates Urriah wrote: There are some great imaginations here... but, the market data shows everyone is pretty much misunderstanding what is happening. http://blog.nalates.net/2016/07/29/misunderstanding-the-second-life-lindex/ In your blog you say this 'Until someone is willing to offer L$ below L$258/$1 (bigger number is lower price for L$) or someone is willing to bid more than L$268/$1 (smaller number is a high price) nothing happens, no transactions.' You are showing your misunderstanding right here. Limit sell and market buy orders are going through every few seconds. Here's another person who has probably never used the LindeX. Certainly hasn't taken the time to watch and refresh to see what is actually happening.

HisaDrug wrote: unless LL would cut the veteran merchants some slack. I wish they would instead of singling us out for making more than they think we should. I love second life so much but then this is so pessimistic. I've been scanning over the forums to see who actually made a rant about it. I haven't seen much lately and I can see why. Pessimism. I stopped ranting. I ranted myself hoarse. And what I hated most in the numerous threads was when people who were not affected by it would act like it's of no consequence, and act like they are experts when they don't use the LindeX. People who don't know what it's like when you put in so much effort and see your profits decreasing. Why don't they just stick to what concerns them and leave this issue to those affected by it? Instead of adding lame answers like, 'this is not new', which only serves to add to the frustration. Yes, currency markets go down all the time, but businesses often go bankcrupt as a result. So, it isn't a comfort to say 'it happens'. Well, I lost all my desire to create. You work hard to increase profit, but it takes away the drive when you have a tide against you. I bolded the part here that I think hits the target.

Pamela Galli wrote: All that money I saved from buying down tier on four sims? Now almost eaten up by Linden devaluation -- when something looks too good to be true.... Regardless of what Ebbe says, I do not doubt LL is behind it. Some insight in the midst of confusion

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: I really think that with the change in the "Buy $L's" screen is at least partly to blame with more buyers using the 'Best Buy (Limit Buy)" rate and demanding more $L's for their RL money. Amethyst, there is a 10 point gap between the best limit buy and the best limit sell. Therefore the best limit buy order will never be filled by the best limit sell offer. They have to match for that to happen. This is how it works. Limit sell orders are filled by Market buy orders. A market buy order is when the buyer does not set a price, but will accept the best limit sell order. These are mostly people who buy in the viewer (the majority of buyers). The limit buy orders are filled by market sell orders - sellers who don't set a limit sell order but will take the best limit buy order. These sellers would be selling at currently 271. In this market, it isn't a case of people demanding more L$ for their dollar, because the vast majority of orders are small market buys within the viewer, and not limit buy orders. If this was not the case then the two sides (buy and sell) would need to meet (be equal) before any transaction can occur between limit orders.

Very well done. I really enjoyed it.

I suspect my sales may be down but I stopped keeping track. After the credit fee increases I changed my cash out routine, and then the value of the L$ started going down, and then I just gave up on keeping records all together. Whatever happens happens. I'm not taking it seriously anymore. I still create but just when I feel like it, and when I'm enjoying it. My L$ is accumulating, but I don't even bother cashing out. I don't really care about search or its impact. For me it's best not to know. Ignorance is bliss.

Ricblas Ferraris wrote: I suggest it would be very interesting to have the option to set a page from the some point of view of the merchant. They did give us the ability to do this once, but it failed. It caused problems. I can't remember what the problems were, but they were big enough that they quickly pulled the plug on it. So, they did try it. It just didn't work back then, and they never tried it again.

Elvina Ewing wrote: Rya Nitely wrote: What you saw on that Sunday morning could have been normal activity by some seller(s). I'm thinking this is the exact same seller(s) who's been doing this all along since May, just like LL said. Probably somebody from Asia (Anshe Chung?) or Europe, judging by the time of day this usually happens. A lot of L$ (several millions) get dumped in a short time period (a few hours), so i don't think those are just ordinary people like you and me moving their orders up. Obviously, this all happens with LL's consent as they are not doing anything to intervene. Only last Saturday my order at 257 came through and took only a week, and now there's already a whole of 50M on 258, and 7M at 259, so i bet if i want to sell at 257 now it's gonna take way more than a week... -.- sigh... What I can't understand about this 'dumping money' or 'capital flight' theory is this. Where are the 'several million' L$ coming from? How is it being generated? If assets are being sold off (or business is booming) for this seller(s) then there must be a matching quantity of L$ being bought to pay for these goods and services. This would show up as an increase in daily volume, but demand for L$ (daily volume) has been relatively constant over time. This is why I believe it's fresh L$ (newly printed). If you increase supply, and demand remains constant, you get devaluation. Selling your assets to wind down your business can only happen if you have people willing to buy, and L$ supply and demand would be equal. There are no banks or hoarded money in SL. Any US$ going out of SL has to come in first. Devaluation of the L$ may be unpleasant for sellers but it isn't a real concern (yet). A cheaper L$ is not a bad thing for business if it stimulates spending. What would be concerning is if L$ daily volume started decreasing.

Elvina Ewing wrote: When i woke up this morning there was about 61M at 257 and that was the highest price. In the course of the next few hours (while it was a rather early Sunday morning in US) there magically appeared 20M at 258, while there is still about 62M at 257. I think it is highly unlikely LL is doing this on a Sunday morning... What you saw on that Sunday morning could have been normal activity by some seller(s). LL don't have to continue injecting new supply to maintain these levels. They only needed to inject L$ until the goal was reached and stable. I believe (hope) we are there now, and have been for a few weeks. It's stable around 257 - 258. This is a very tidy 10 point increase compared to the long term 247 - 248. It also makes sense for LL to devalue the L$ as an adjustment to falling currencies around the world. The L$ was becoming more and more expensive for many foreign users.

aaronimon, there must a problem with your credit process, and you should raise a support ticket.

As Qui pointed out, the cheaper L$ is making SL more affordable, especially for residents outside US. There may be no other reason for devaluation. For this reason I won't be raising my prices. Since I'm an Australian merchant I have benefited from an expensive US$. As for capital flight, there's no significant change in user numbers (Ebbe confirmed this) and the LindeX daily volume has been steady for many years. Merchants have been reporting that sales are stable. I have three stores on MP with different product types - there has been no significant change in sales volume. Estate sims may be vanishing but that money must be going elsewhere, or we'd be seeing the LindeX daily volume trending down.