Gabriele Graves

I've been thinking about the whole way the friends/contact lists are presented in Firestorm at least. Currently there is a tab called "Contacts" presumably "Friends" on the official viewer though I haven't used that in a long time so I'm not sure. That tab also has tabs called "Friends", "Groups" and "Contacts". The "Contacts" sub-tab allows me to create lists of residents and name those list to whatever I want. I can add people to it and have them coloured differently on the mini-map and for their tags. If I could have SL and Firestorm changed to the way I want it would be like this: 1. The "Groups" sub-tab is moved out to it's own tab at the same level as the "Contacts" tab. 2. The "Friends" sub-tab is merged with the "Contacts" sub-tab and renamed "Resident Lists". 3. I can add any resident to any named list I create but in addition to colouring their tags/mini-map dot, etc. I could also assign the permissions that were in the "Friends" sub-tab. 4. My choice to add would stay private to me until I checked a permission to give to the resident in question and at that point it asks them "Gabriele Graves wants to give you permission to see their online status", etc. If they chose to accept, they could select the list that they want me to appear on and then they could optionally give me permissions as well. This introduces an asymmetry to this Friends/Contacts list that appeals to me hugely. I should be able to add resident to any list I want without them knowing and they should be able to do likewise. The only time we need to know that we are both on each other's lists is when we assign them permissions. I think the "Friends" list as we have it is a false concept and is the source of much drama as it is today. The above would help with all that in my opinion.

Why is it that people equate friendship with being put on a list? Perhaps my friends list is just a notecard in my inventory. Should it matter?

I think I have expressed why adequately enough in this topic if one were to read my posts more carefully and try to understand. I don't feel like repeating it all again. I will say this however, it isn't that anyone of those things are necessarily incredibly valuable and worth having to be preserved in of themselves but it's what effect the rules/covenant would have on mainland to be effective to make the rules understandable and guide the efforts of enforcement. You cannot laser scalpel this away, it's more like wielding a bloody mallet.

I totally agree but that's never stopped us all before

Did you read what I posted earlier animats? You cannot make a blanket rule against these kinds of builds without having to enforce a theme to tell people what they are allowed to build. It also means no more sandboxes. It's not simple or as black/white you and a few others paint.

OK, that's a fair answer and I was just curious. I do think that does place you in a minority of more altruistically minded people though.

Talking generally now. We may not like other people's builds, they may not like ours. Mainland isn't supposed to be a place were one viewpoint defeats all others. If we go down this path mainland is changed forever and some of the great things about mainland that some clearly don't understand the value of, don't value or don't understand how they will be destroyed by these changes, will be lost forever. Some of us fundamentally disagree with going down this path.

No, this wasn't the general you. It was a response to the claims you were making in your last post about what people "want". I took your last post to mean that you think that the mainland masses wanted mainland to be transformed into such a continent as if it were a given and it's not.

Is it a skybox though if it's on the ground? What actually defines a skybox? The name of the main object? It's altitude? The style? Maybe it's just a ready-made resort or just a building, or is it an a collection of walls and a fake sky. Unfortunately you cannot disallow this without disallowing lots of other things people build. Each Mole/Linden would have to be called to each circumstance and make a decision and that's unworkable. You cannot make rules up for this kind of thing without severely curtailing the ability of people to build whatever they want.

This is just an opinion that not everybody shares with you so why should this view prevail?

You could have had that by increasing your tier by just USD 7/month though. That's way less than going P+ There must have been something else that attracted you as well as that.

Even RL HOA's allow you to shop and eat

You and I have a different definition of a residential community then. As a related detour, there are people who think that truck stops, gas pumps and auto-workshops are every bit as much of an eyesore as other clutter on mainland. I speak only from personal conversations I've had of course but even in RL not many people want to live right by a highway with those kinds of things around and by the same token don't want to see them around them in SL either. That's the problem with a covenant, whose vision is the correct one for that area? I put forward that to resolve this mainland would have to be completely redone with zoning at least in mind.

Having a GTFO hub is not building a local residential community for that region. I'm looking at the vast swathes of mainland without any residential communities, nobody has to look far.

Linden Homes are a different estate and not considered mainland by LL, not even the original ones. If I talk about mainland, it is not about Linden Homes.

^^^ This. Belli was very popular even before the orb changes. I remember when they came in, houses were already in short supply.

If what you are saying is true @Qie Niangao then there is no need to change mainland at all. Just add more and more Belli regions and wait for people to move over. Once mainland is empty then LL can consider closing mainland. If that's what people want, it's simple.

Unfortunately for you there is a gaping hole of evidence that the mainland masses want what you claim. In the absence of concrete data showing that you are right, it would be remiss of LL to enforce changes on all of mainland's residents. Under a restrictive covenant it wouldn't be possible to provide anyone with a sandbox as they don't meet anyone's definition of minimum standards. LL's own sandboxes technically would violate it too and they would have to make an exception for themselves or move them off mainland. Nobody would be able to create a post-apocalyptic or junkyard build because someone with a daisy garden nearby would complain about it not looking pretty, spoiling the view and their land prices. This is the situation with Linden Homes, nobody can use their land like a sandbox and leave plywood prim structures in an unfinished state for weeks at a time nor can they decorate their home in a post-apocalyptic or junkyard theme, it's not allowed by the rules. Heck you cannot even leave your seasonal decorations out longer than allowed. So to have "minimum standards" LL would have to decide what "theme" mainland or areas of mainland would have to be. Belli's rules aren't arbitrary. They were carefully thought through to create the effect you see there today.

Use the Firestorm viewer, have an auto-response that tells people you are too busy right now and then learn to ignore them. There is nothing in SL that can truly hide your online status.

You have a point and some things do work like that but others don't. I sometimes get more special offers or perks included in my ISP plan, my mobile plan and even once or twice discounts to keep me with my energy company. I don't live in the US though. Netflix did actually add games for us in NZ without any price increase - we've had them for about 6 months.

I guess the point here and Ceka will have to correct me if I'm wrong is that if P+ keeps getting new perks added and Premium doesn't then it will feel that Premium is a legacy product that is left behind and no longer cared about by LL. Until P+ came along, any additional perks were added to Premium which along with price did increase. Through this lens, assuming that prices will not be frozen for Premium, it's fair to want there to be additional perks for Premium too going forward.

Those are the worst because tinting isn't and shouldn't be as good as getting a properly created texture in a different colour. It's just the best thing we have as recourse if the right shade isn't available. If those creators don't understand that, it's troubling.

Thank you, that makes sense. Thank you Sure, I could understand that though it's a bit petty if true. However you don't say if any Mole or Linden enforcement actually happened, just that they were worried there would be. I still have doubts over this. The problem with interpreting rules is that you are never sure where the line is. Are Mole/Lindens going to police sending out a group notice with a link to a Belli parcel event too? Remember that an event can just be a party and not necessarily a business (aka club). Even with businesses, the moles have repeatedly said that as long as no money actually changes hands on Belli, there is no problem with taking money beforehand and afterwards. Isn't that just getting around the rules too? Perhaps there are inconsistencies here, perhaps not. I don't know. Hope you're not bored now though

It didn't look as though "Official" was part of whatever problem there was, just the "SL Events" parts. Very strange.

In that case a link would be helpful. See, you just called it an "SL Events" calendar too They couldn't really allow SL events for Bellisseria because of the no-commerce rule. I doubt there is anything stopping a resident creating an event on mainland where they have a TP to their Bellisseria location for where the party is. Not sure what any of that has to do with what events are called. It doesn't take boredom for me to respond to a forum post.