How closely do you resemble your avatar?

[Tiffy Vella]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

"Part of the thrill of VR, of online blogging, etc, is the social anonymity, right?   (...So I wasn’t even expecting that anyone would respond to this request. If you wouldn’t do it in RL, why in SL, i know.)  

Of course SL is used for many other reasons outside of serving as an epic escapist fantasy - a place where your actions and first impression appearances have little or no consequences.  It’s not all about the looks and communicating with people who don’t have to know your past.  "

**I agree with you that no, it's not all about the thrill of anonymity. I can only answer as me, but wonder how many might agree, that I began as an anonymous avatar, with no idea what the virtual world would hold. Over time, the anonymity faded, as involvement became more complex....businesses are established...friendships formed...reputations carved...and over time, that anonymous avatar becomes a person. An identity, I guess. Mine has become me, as much as rl me is me. Both are real. I no longer feel anonymous as my avatar. If I'm rude to another, I feel the consequences and must live with them.

I feel like an immersionist, in that when in SL, I'm very unlikely to want to talk about the price of groceries or what my RL job is unless I know someone very well. I don't consider myself to be escaping, but putting aside banal rl matters to better appreciate the virtual ones.

Others use their SL identity as an augmentation of their real life. They are happy to reveal rl professions, and even names. they can sometimes make their avatar similar in appearance. Go and goggle "immersionists vs augmentationalists" as this is a fascinating issue and perhaps relevant to your study. SL is a bit of a dissection blade that really brings together both styles of involvement, and makes them bounce against each other. (Errr bad analogy, but i know what I mean lol)

"

Still, it is mostly the social issues surrounding virtual reality/SL that keep many people who have never tried it, out.  It still owns that stereotype of being a place that people use to replace, rather than aid, reality with - a place for a 40 yr old pedifile claiming to be a 15 year old boy, video game junkies who never shower, etc. The list of insults could go on. "

We SL residents are only too aware of those stereotypes. Popular media sells them to the average television watcher all too often. It's a bit of a bummer, to be frank, and it's one of the issues that makes us wary of our privacy, and possibly wary of outside spectators. I can assure everyone that I'm a happy person with a good real life, not disgusting or overly weirdie-looking. No unsightly warts, nor am I antisocial. I can bet most SL residents are the same, but that doesn't make good telly.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Hard to read, very well said.

[Tiffy Vella]

thanks, charlotte...i know I ought to work out how to quote properly...I suck, heehee 

 

[Rival Destiny]

You need to find something that you have time to learn about.. If you want accuracy you need something less immersive to report on. JMO

[Ceka Cianci]

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Tiffy Vella wrote:

thanks, charlotte...i know I ought to work out how to quote properly...I suck, heehee 

 

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you don't suck..the forum software does..

quoting is a real pain most of the time if you have to break a post down and comment in sections to more than one thing..

a reeeeeeeeal pain..

hehehe

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

Part of the thrill of VR, of online blogging, etc, is the social anonymity, right?   (...So I wasn’t even expecting that anyone would respond to this request. If you wouldn’t do it in RL, why in SL, i know.)  

Of course SL is used for many other reasons outside of serving as an epic escapist fantasy - a place where your actions and first impression appearances have little or no consequences.  It’s not all about the looks and communicating with people who don’t have to know your past.  

 

This is not entirely true.. All actions n SL have consequences. I have seen and have had far too many first hand experiences with someone having their RL heart broken and wanted to chuck it all out and never come back.

Still, it is mostly the social issues surrounding virtual reality/SL that keep many people who have never tried it, out.  It still owns that stereotype of being a place that people use to replace, rather than aid, reality with - a place for a 40 yr old pedifile claiming to be a 15 year old boy, video game junkies who never shower, etc. The list of insults could go on.  

ya know...  i have never EVER seen a bad review of SL in the media. CSI NY did it awesomely and that started the huge influx of new people back a few years ago. I have never met a child av that was looking fro SLex... ever. I have found , on the whole, that SLers are mature, articulate and intellegent Sure you get the odd "U R HAWT!!! LETS HAVE TEH BUTT SECKS!!" but they are few and far between.

There’s a series of images taken by a photographer/guy by the name of Robbie Cooper.    (

http://www.robbiecooper.org/small.html

) Yes, judging by only a picture of someone’s face is pretty judgmental and biased.  But perhaps not all judgements are “racist”?

At least it opens up a conversation.  

Even if collecting photos of people serves no utilitarian purpose, making a statement/starting a conversation is always a start I hope.

 

I am an undergrad student at the Maryland Institute College of Art (MICA). Doing a documentary project for a Digital Photography class. 

I knew you were a college student that wanted help with a mid term!!!!

Yes - I hope that other people will help with, not do my homework for me.  This is homework and 20cent type classes tend to function like a rigid system where productivity is determined partly by how fast you can meet a deadline.  This is exactly why I don’t ever meet deadlines. Assignment, critique, and repeat.   Apologies apologies! My last post was really obnoxious!

Yes, I am an amateur and SL first timer.  I can barely walk in a straight line.  But I promise to learn. 

 

BTW.. you didn't post a RL pic. you cant expect us to, if you wont.

:smileytongue:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Eileen Fellstein]

lol, well that may be part of the reseach. How many people are willing to blindly post a picture of themself in response to someone completely anonymous. It's not hard to find a place where thousands of people do that though. It's called facebook and I cringe every time I think about that to be honest. Sites used to warn aganst doing this sort of thing. Now it seems to be encouraged. I'm actually relieved to see how many people in this thread didn't jump to post images of their RL self.

It doesn't need to be pedifiles and soap deprived gamers to acurately say 'not everyone is here to play nice', but that is actually true of any sort if internet activity that draws multitudes of people, even the ones where they are posting from their RL selves as opposed to a psuedo name or avatar. I've seen far more rude, biggoted and downright disgusting commentary in reply to you tube videos for instance than I have ever dreamed of seeing in 2nd life. (most of them mirroring their post on facebook and whatever else automatically) Just some aweful stuff on there. IMO piracy issues are the least of their worries.

But anyway, I'm not sure you'll convince many that are resistant to try something like SL or some other virtual world/game to try it by pointing out the obvious fact that we are all people behind the avis. I think many people of that opinion have it because of some experience in their own life and it would probably be as difficult as trying to change someone's religeous or political beliefs to do so.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Not being one to be alarmist or given to unneccesary panic but UsernamexPi's research quest could quite easily be less innocent than it might appear at first glance. Consider the fact that he's requesting SL avatar photos matched to RL photos. These photos could then be fed into Tin Eye or any other image matching service for further data trawling. I'm not suggesting that UsernamexPi would contemplate doing such a thing but one should be aware of the possibilities once one releases matched up SL & RL images. That data could easily leave UsernamexPi's domain and end up anywhere.

[UsernamexPi]

No RL photos - unless you don't care. (Madeline McMasters (on p.2) didn't use a literal image of herself.  - Really great, lol thanks.)

 

[UsernamexPi]

I was sitting in class one day when our teacher mentioned to us that there was going to be a faculty meeting on introducing hybrid courses, sections of courses that would be taught through SL, to our school.  For us, this is new.  For many of the kids in my class, this also seemed to be news.  Many of them answered back saying something like, "Wow! Thats craaaazy!" - in the creepy robots are going to rule the world sort of way.  

I guess the issue remains - what part of experience gets lost in using these tools and shortcuts to make our daily lives more efficient?  Does it matter that we can't feel someone touching us in virtual life?  For today's purposes, it might not - because SL is used more as a means of augmenting reality than replacing it.   Yet even by innocently using these tools, gps, google maps, etc, our perception of reality does still change somehow.  

An entire revolution can be organized all through blind social networking.  Does it necessarily yield more effective communication?  The lines have been drawn and redrawn and maybe they don't matter anymore - but they still exist. What is the difference between extrapolating data and finding a shorter means to an end; having an organized specified conversation in virtual life versus performing that same activity in real life?  What part of the process gets lost? Does it matter? Does it matter that we can’t really see each other for what we are?  

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

Does it matter that we can’t really see each other for what we are?  

 

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It does matter, but it is not the computer screen or physical distance that keeps up from seeing.

What are we? We are somebody, inhabiting a virtual body. Who are we? We are someone inhabiting a corporeal body. Can we exist without a body? Our bodies cannot exist without us.

What are we then, and can we really see anyone for what we are?

So no, it doesn't matter. We live in a real virtual reality anyways. We don't ever see the persons that govern us, or that we pay most of our monies to, or that provide us with our most basic necessities. We don't see the person who makes our food, our medicines, our laws. If anything, this virtual reality gets us a little bit closer to many people we never see, so in that sense, maybe we see them more.

Many times I find myself wondering, as I shop at the grocery store or walk down the sidewalk or get my hair cut, I wonder if this person and I are friends in Second Life?

Should I know? Does it matter? Would it be better?

 

 

[Rival Destiny]

...does any of that have the slightest to do with your inquiry - How closely do you resemble your avatar?

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

I was sitting in class one day when our teacher mentioned to us that there was going to be a faculty meeting on introducing hybrid courses, sections of courses that would be taught through SL, to our school.  For us, this is new.  For many of the kids in my class, this also seemed to be news.  Many of them answered back saying something like, "Wow! Thats craaaazy!" - in the creepy robots are going to rule the world sort of way.  

 

I guess the issue remains - what part of experience gets lost in using these tools and shortcuts to make our daily lives more efficient?  Does it matter that we can't feel someone touching us in virtual life?  For today's purposes, it might not - because SL is used more as a means of augmenting reality than replacing it.   Yet even by innocently using these tools, gps, google maps, etc, our perception of reality does still change somehow.  

 

An entire revolution can be organized all through blind social networking.  Does it necessarily yield more effective communication?  The lines have been drawn and redrawn and maybe they don't matter anymore - but they still exist. What is the difference between extrapolating data and finding a shorter means to an end; having an organized specified conversation in virtual life versus performing that same activity in real life?  What part of the process gets lost? Does it matter? Does it matter that we can’t really see each other for what we are?  

 

 

 

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those lines only exist for those that make them or can't understand..

this may help with explaining why those people make those lines..they actually cannot see how big it really is and how powerful it is becoming and how far the reach really is..

it's a revolution so of course they will draw those lines..

but sooner or later those that make those lines will fade away even more as they have in just the past decade..if they have a messenger or a facebook or the whole world in the palm of their hands from a cell phone then they are a part of it as well and probably don't even know it..

it's become so common that they are more than likely a part of the big picture and just can't understand or see it yet..but sooner or later they will..lol

Thanks to SpaceCase for posting this over at SLU =)

[UsernamexPi]

Yes, because part of the reason for changing and augmenting the way we look in SL is to create a more ideal perfect version of ourselves and our surroundings.  (You are right though - my inquiry is much to narrow.)

[UsernamexPi]

You are so right - which is why I'm trying to break my own language barrier and have this sort of conversation.  Maybe immersion is not even necessary?  Do I have to take psychedelic hallucinogens to understand a mystical experience? Not necessarily.  I don't mean to be narrow minded and hyper-critical.  But you can't entirely dismiss a luddite stance just because it's outdated and culturally narrow-minded either.  An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  (... Sorry if this all sounds like pretentious unnecessary bull**bleep**.)  

[Ceka Cianci]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

You are so right - which is why I'm trying to break my own language barrier and have this sort of conversation.  Maybe immersion is not even necessary?  Do I have to take psychedelic hallucinogens to understand a mystical experience? Not necessarily.  I don't mean to be narrow minded and hyper-critical.  But you can't entirely dismiss a luddite stance just because it's outdated and culturally narrow-minded either.  An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  (... Sorry if this all sounds like pretentious unnecessary bull**bleep**.)  

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i don't think we dismiss it at all..i think we communicate with it very well..the thing is..there is no line for us..and it doesn't take long to erase one that is there once the chance is given to show just what the virtual communication can do..

it's not just second life..it's the internet itself as well..

it's in our tv's and cell phones and ipods and land phones cars and appliances now..just about everything hehehe

lines are made out of fear or lack of understanding..

it's not really like joining something..i would say it is more like quitting something..opening up our minds to see the bigger picture..not just in this but everything..

if we as humans would ever actually learn that there is always a bigger picture from the things we generalize about..the world would be a much better place with bigger thinkers and wider vision and faster learning and less secretes or reasons to feel we have to hide anything from anyone....because we would be able to understand and express ourselves on a whole other level..

when we can put the lines behind us instead of between us..that's when cool stuff is really gonna happen..

i don't see you as standing on the other side of the line..and i hope that is not how you took what i was saying..

you are kicking the light on and the grue fighters are just trying to make it a little brighter in here is all..

the ones still in the dark..they will be stuck in that alley getting eaten up until they decide to turn it on as well..

we can't see them to acknowledge them until they do..it isn't about dismissing them at all.. these threads that have questions being asked..

there are people in here all day and night just waiting to try to answer them to shed some light  or hoping to help..

making the world blind is not on the agenda of those that want to show how awesome things really are..

and things really are getting more awesome all the time in a big way..you almost have to race to these forums the second something awesome shows up  if you want to be the first to brag about it LOL =)

 

ok i may be drifting a bit because i am up late..sorry for running on like i have..

 

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

I was sitting in class one day when our teacher mentioned to us that there was going to be a faculty meeting on introducing hybrid courses, sections of courses that would be taught through SL, to our school.  For us, this is new.  For many of the kids in my class, this also seemed to be news.  Many of them answered back saying something like, "Wow! Thats craaaazy!" - in the creepy robots are going to rule the world sort of way.  

 

I guess the issue remains - what part of experience gets lost in using these tools and shortcuts to make our daily lives more efficient?  Does it matter that we can't feel someone touching us in virtual life?  For today's purposes, it might not - because SL is used more as a means of augmenting reality than replacing it.   Yet even by innocently using these tools, gps, google maps, etc, our perception of reality does still change somehow.  

 

An entire revolution can be organized all through blind social networking.  Does it necessarily yield more effective communication?  The lines have been drawn and redrawn and maybe they don't matter anymore - but they still exist. What is the difference between extrapolating data and finding a shorter means to an end; having an organized specified conversation in virtual life versus performing that same activity in real life?  What part of the process gets lost? Does it matter? Does it matter that we can’t really see each other for what we are?  

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Now we're getting somewhere!  Let's see if I fix that! ;-)

Does blind social networking yield more effective communication? I have my doubts. We've evolved a plethora of mechanisms to evalute each other in social interactions, many of which are useless in SL. The problem with extrapolating is that we've got an incomplete understanding of the ways in which we work. Our societies are evolving far faster than we do. So our "shorter means" may achieve ends we didn't anticipate. Wasn't the internet supposed to provide for the democratization of ideas? While that's happening somewhere, I also see a lot of balkanization, with little bits of fringe weaving together into self reinforcing pockets.

I've not seen evidence that SL improves the efficiency of our daily lives. Corporate America came to SL and left again years ago, lured by the promise and disillusioned by the reality.

I don't think we really ever see each other for who we are. We craft faces to show depending on analysis of risk and reward. SL certainly shifts that analysis. Some (most?) of that shift comes from anonymity, some from a potentially false (true? ;-) re-embodiment of self via our avatars.

As one who's socialized online for more than two decades, I'd say that as a medium for the exchange of ideas, SL is perhaps the least efficient I've encountered. But as a place to share experiences, it's pretty cool.

[ROB34466IIIa]

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UsernamexPi wrote:

Many of them answered back saying something like, "Wow! Thats craaaazy!" - in the creepy robots are going to rule the world sort of way.  

 

 What part of the process gets lost? Does it matter? Does it matter that we can’t really see each other for what we are?  

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

 

I don't think we really ever see each other for who we are. We craft faces to show depending on analysis of risk and reward. SL certainly shifts that analysis. Some (most?) of that shift comes from anonymity, some from a potentially false (true? ;-) re-embodiment of self via our avatars.

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/me interrupts.

 

"There' s a 66.7% probability Maddy McMasters is actually the grand MCP of Second Life.

End of line."

 

( /me gestures and waves frantically @ Maddy ... " Shhhhhhhhh, woman .. wth ?"  :robotfrustrated:)

[Rival Destiny]

... is that any relation to the Grande Poobah by chance?

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Rival Destiny wrote:

... is that any relation to the Grande Poobah by chance?

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Grand Winnie the Poohbah seems more appropriate for the Hundred Acre Woods that is SL. Believe Rob if you wish, but... 

you ignore the 33.3% possibility that I'm actually a Heffalump or a Woozle at your own risk.

[Melita Magic]

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

Light hearted Cthuhlu mythos aside, I suspect those of the herd who are actually like the RL pics of models in many profiles will be delighted to comply with your request, 

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Dunno about that. Imagine their IM box blowing up. Do people who model or act in real life need more attention and would that be why they were online or even in Second Life?

I'll say the same thing to this topic's OP that I say sometimes to other pollsters - you first.

[Chronometria]

I think much of this depends on where people came from, before they were second life users. I came from an MMO background, so the avatar on the screen was always a representation of someone else, rather than me. I guess someone who was always in it for the chat would want something that looks more like them.

My avatar is the opposite gender to me and sometimes it isnt even human, but i still like to think that it reflects me in some way, even if it isnt meant to copy my outward appearance, however.

[Apex Nightshade]

I wouldn't even consider myself human in SL. I share more of a resemblance to an alien of some sort. http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q599/Jafan_Be/Image3.jpg 

[hazy Cygnet]

wow some evil ppl out there

[Eileen Fellstein]

Wow this topic has taken some interesting turns. I'm not sure I have followed all of them. A few things went like 'woosh' over my head.

Xpi, I hope you can salvage enough for your paper despite most of our reluctance to cooperate and provide photos, lol

But ya know, I wonder how this topic might have gone if the questions was 'How much does your avatar represent you?' rather than asking about physical looks. Just guessing but I think you'd have a got an overwhelming amount of responses affirming that the avatar is indeed representative of the spirit of the user

I've actually found that life in here developes seperately from RL, though simultaniously and with some shared memories, feelings etc. Perhaps it's like a branch off of reality sometimes and how sharply the turn is depends on everything from avatar appearance to the unique experiences and exchanges we share with other residents.

Much the same theory as that in RL that the makup of an indivual is shaped by their experience and what they see and hear from others about themselves and things around them.

I'm not sure where to look it up, but I seem to recal a section of the tos/user agreement at one point which stated something along the lines that an avatar should represent the user. Maybe someone can help point to that because I believe that part was changed or removed?  But I think some people figure that spoke to gender and physical characteristics, taking it very litteraly and others were quite comfortable going with 'their inner female' or 'my ji is a cat' or any other justification for a variance. Other's just completely said pfft and tossed the whole notion out the window.