Breedables in SL.. Meeroos Creators have too much power?

[Deej Kasshiki]

Ranting on a LL website isn't going to get you anywhere. The court of public opinion has no authority and is frequently completely ignorant of the law. If you're so convinced that you've been wronged you should retain competent legal counsel.

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Ian Undercroft wrote:

With respect Ceka, what you say is nonsense.

The Meeroos ToS gives you licence you access to the product and database. If you breach that licence, it may be terminated at the instance of the licensor. The meeroos will then "poof" because they are, for their continued existence, dependant on access to the database. The right of a licensor to terminate a licence in specified circumstances is a basic and elementary element of the law of contract.

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Yeah, see, while legal and probably not a violation of LL's ToS, that would be greediest, nastiest, and most petty way of packaging a Second Life product that one could possibly imagine.

Honestly, I don't know wtf is wrong with that bunch.  They're raking in money hand over fist -- and more power to them for that -- so why do they feel compelled to devise a business model that's crafted in the image of some Eve Online scam?

[MasterEdward Avril]

I'm sorry to hear that.

Meeroos are a big investment. I express myself there as well although I hope they wouldn't see it as negative since I do also say many positive things, and am active and proactive in the meeroo community.

It is very scary to me that my investment could just POOF. I do not think that should ever happen, once something has been purchased. At least give the person an opportunity to give their belongings to someone else, or to sell them. If they want to stop them posting there, or playing in future that is another thing and within their rights I guess. But, taking belongings seems above that.

Can you appeal your ban there?

 

I appealed directly with the "mother" of meeroos , Catherine Farspire. To no avail...

[Marcus Hancroft]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Ian Undercroft wrote:

With respect Ceka, what you say is nonsense.

The Meeroos ToS gives you licence you access to the product and database. If you breach that licence, it may be terminated at the instance of the licensor. The meeroos will then "poof" because they are, for their continued existence, dependant on access to the database. The right of a licensor to terminate a licence in specified circumstances is a basic and elementary element of the law of contract.

---

Yeah, see, while legal and probably not a violation of LL's ToS, that would be greediest, nastiest, and most petty way of packaging a Second Life product that one could possibly imagine.

Honestly, I don't know wtf is wrong with that bunch.  They're raking in money hand over fist -- and more power to them for that -- so why do they feel compelled to devise a business model that's crafted in the image of some Eve Online scam?

---

^This

I've never owned any breedable, Meeroos or otherwise.  I guess since this is "allowable" under LL TOS, I could go get a script and put it in every piece of artwork, jewelry, planter box or lamps I sell, that will give me the ability to remotely delete any customers purchase if I didn't like how it was displayed.  Either it is going to show my products in the best possible light, or I will make it go *poof* and too bad customer!  You should have made my products look like the greatest thing in SL so I'll sell even more of them!

Ridiculous!

No, the creators should not have the ability to delete any customers purchased products at any time for any reason. 

Regardless what others in this thread say.

 

[MasterEdward Avril]

You say that I don't know the full story. That may be because you seem incapable or unwilling to tell us what that might be. Having re-read your post here, my impression is that we have selective snippets. I should also add that I have searched against your name on the Meeroo website and your only post (at least your only post now visible) is that which you claim got you banned and which I earlier set out in full. What had caused you to express disgust in that post? Had the issue which led to you being banned already arisen? If so, how can you claim the post expressing disgust got you banned?

 

 

The reason you can not find it, is because Catherine chose to remove the post. She told me this directly.

[MasterEdward Avril]

Ranting on a LL website isn't going to get you anywhere. The court of public opinion has no authority and is frequently completely ignorant of the law. If you're so convinced that you've been wronged you should retain competent legal counsel.

 

Be assured, I am not here to rant, merely to both educate and express my public opinions, as we all are.

[Marcus Hancroft]

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MasterEdward Avril wrote:

 

<SNIP>

 

The reason you can not find it, is because Catherine chose to remove the post. She told me this directly.

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/me shakes his head

See...this is ALSO ridiculous.  None of these breedables people will ever a single linden from THIS poster.  I wouldn't touch their crap with a 10M pole.

[MasterEdward Avril]

MasterEdward Avril wrote:

 

<SNIP>

 

The reason you can not find it, is because Catherine chose to remove the post. She told me this directly.

/me shakes his head

See...this is ALSO ridiculous.  None of these breedables people will ever a single linden from THIS poster.  I wouldn't touch their crap with a 10M pole.

 

 

I don't know about other breedables, but any merchant in second life that practices such illegal practices, should be banned from second life in my opinion.

[Melita Magic]

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MasterEdward Avril wrote

 

The reason you can not find it, is because Catherine chose to remove the post. She told me this directly.

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Your post is still there. I have the page open, right at this moment.

It's in the blog post announcing the Halloween costumes, for the person who wanted to know.

BTW Edward not to be a noodge, but, could you put a line or something between what others said and your reply? It looks like you said the whole thing. Or, your name is going on someone else's post.

[MasterEdward Avril]

MasterEdward Avril wrote

 

The reason you can not find it, is because Catherine chose to remove the post. She told me this directly.

Your post is still there. I have the page open, right at this moment.

It's in the blog post announcing the Halloween costumes, for the person who wanted to know.

BTW Edward not to be a noodge, but, could you put a line or something between what others said and your reply? It looks like you said the whole thing. Or, your name is going on someone else's post.

===============================================================

 

Sorry, posting from my iPad, doesn't give me the "quote" option, lol

[Melita Magic]

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MasterEdward Avril wrote:

 

Sorry, posting from my iPad, doesn't give me the "quote" option, lol

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Oh! Okay. No problem. 

My Ipad has been gathering dust. I'm still technically challenged, I guess! Never tried to post with it.

Thanks for the dotted line.  

[MasterEdward Avril]

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Melita Magic wrote:

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MasterEdward Avril wrote:

 

Sorry, posting from my iPad, doesn't give me the "quote" option, lol

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Oh! Okay. No problem. 

My Ipad has been gathering dust. I'm still technically challenged, I guess! Never tried to post with it.

Thanks for the dotted line.  

---

No problem.. back on my pc now.. 

Anyway.. am I wrong, or is this type of practice against the LL tos ?

[UncommonTruth]

Knowing nothing about anything, I can only read Ceka's post, wich makes the meeroos people look completely wrong. Sorry if I misspelled meeroos lol. I'm not understanding how you were banned from the game. For mentioning you were selling them? I guess this goes way over my head. If I'd ever had any temptation to get into breedables, this cured it.

 

edit, cause I had misspelled meroos ^^

[MasterEdward Avril]

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UncommonTruth wrote:

Knowing nothing about anything, I can only read Ceka's post, wich makes the meeroos people look completely wrong. Sorry if I misspelled meeroos lol. I'm not understanding how you were banned from the game. For mentioning you were selling them? I guess this goes way over my head. If I'd ever had any temptation to get into breedables, this cured it.

 

edit, cause I

had

misspelled meroos ^^

---

No, I was banned because they *CLAIMED* I had broken their TOS.. which, I have not, never would, never have..  but, even so.. I don't care if they banned me.. the problem I have, is that they STOLE property from me that I PAID FOR.  I had 2 "Clover" Meeroos that I was keeping, that I raised from nests, fed through their life until they retired.. (food is not free.. pretty expensive) ..  and then PAID to have THEM BOTH MEEPETTED .. which costs $995L each..  and they were both upwards of 100 days old.. so, I had them for over 3 months.. yet, they STOLE them from me.

After speaking directly with Catherine Farspire (Lead creator for Meeroos), she told me she banned me for something I wrote on their open forum..  which, was there for OPINIONS.. and I expressed mine, only to get BANNED, *AND* Have my 100+ day old Meepetted Roos TAKEN from me.   The claim that was given to me when I tried to rez a nest.. "Banned due to multiple *TOS* Violations"  this is not true, and I don't care what anyone thinks..  REMOVING of PROPERTY that has been PAID FOR by the Customer (ME) is FRAUD.  If LL doesn't do something about this, my lawyers will.

[WADE1 Jya]

I am sorry to hear you were treated so poorly by this company.

and.... no comment :matte-motes-zipped:

By Second Life ToS, I believe there is nothing else I can say in this thread.

[Sundbuns Camel]

What's a Meeroo?

[Venus Petrov]

Try googling.

[Petronilla Whitfield]

I don't own meeroos, so I have no personal investment here.  I can see one argument for allowing the sellers to take back the animals.  Here in first life, it is a common animal-rescue practice to include a clause in the adoption of an animal allowing the rescue organization to reclaim it if they see fit.  The purpose is to make sure that the animals aren't being abused or neglected or used to fight, but typically conditions are not spelled out in order to avoid arguments over the interpretation of abuse or neglect.  It is also typical to specify that any money paid to the organization for the animal will not be refunded.   Of course, meeroos are virtual, so on one hand, applying the terms of adoption used for live animals is just silly.  On another hand, a lot of silly things go on in SL to further verisimilitude.  As meeroos need to eat (I believe), and need affection, and are able to breed, etc,  the purpose of their scripting seems to be to create as far as possible the illusion of being a live animal.  The meeroo's contract specifying that ownership may be revoked may be seen as part of that illusion.

[MasterEdward Avril]

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Petronilla Whitfield wrote:

I don't own meeroos, so I have no personal investment here.  I can see one argument for allowing the sellers to take back the animals.  Here in first life, it is a common animal-rescue practice to include a clause in the adoption of an animal allowing the rescue organization to reclaim it if they see fit.  The purpose is to make sure that the animals aren't being abused or neglected or used to fight, but typically conditions are not spelled out in order to avoid arguments over the interpretation of abuse or neglect.  It is also typical to specify that any money paid to the organization for the animal will not be refunded.   Of course, meeroos are virtual, so on one hand, applying the terms of adoption used for live animals is just silly.  On another hand, a lot of silly things go on in SL to further verisimilitude.  As meeroos need to eat (I believe), and need affection, and are able to breed, etc,  the purpose of their scripting seems to be to create as far as possible the illusion of being a live animal.  The meeroo's contract specifying that ownership may be revoked may be seen as part of that illusion.

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I think you and I both know that is not what happened.  I had 2 Meeroos I was keeping..  I raised them for over 100 days.. fed them, cared for them, bred them..  and meepetted them..  If I was going to "mistreat" them..  would I have bothered paying nearly $1000L EACH to have them meepetted?  Come on.. this was a selfish act of a vindictive woman, who although she claims to allow "opinions", did not want to hear mine because it did not follow along with hers... so, she banned me from the game..  (which, alone, would have been fine..), and then STOLE my "Animals" that I was caring for, and very well.. I might add..  they had more toys to play with and a supply of food like no other breeder would.

[Eloise Baily]

With respect Petronella, that seems a cold, cruel and slightly unethical, if legal, way to look at things, especially when your 'product' is cutesy enough to market to children.

The OP has stated that he, as a full grown adult, kept two of these for his kids.

Anything that can just whip away something I paid for is theft .

If I had bought the original works of Shakespeare for millions and suddenly discovered that they were fakes written in disappearing ink, would I have no comeback?

Meeros were the nearest breedable thing to tempt me. Thank FSM they woke me up to the money-shaker they are. I'll stay away from them.

ETA: And I've never been obliged to buy the food for my rescue animal, at great expense, from the animal rescue place itself or the animal dies.

[WADE1 Jya]

If you want the corporations who create breedables to have less power in SL, please spread the word that there is alternatives to breedables created by individuals, and vote for this JIRA https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4016? signed by a majority of Second Life's long term non-breedable, non-subscription pet & animal creators.

If you have to pay again & again into various marketing devices, before the product becomes a pet, the pet itself is very much a secondary part of their business!

If anything "breedables" are more akin to gambling, and most of their business comes from people who participate in "the game" for speculative reasons - hoping to make money. These companies create complex financial investment games. Each time, when the inevitable collapse happens (there is no end market for all the surplus pets), a lot of residents get hurt, & this serves to scare away more people from SL then it attracts.

These strange schemes make a lot of people think the entire SL pets & animals scene is dodgy, scaring people away from the more traditional (and simplified) Second Life virtual pet ownership. I know this because new customers tell me this almost everyday now:

 

• They are scared their animals will die.
• They are scared they will have to keep buying food & other items to keep their animals.
• They are scared there is some trick to make them pay again and again.

 

For some reason the biggest breedable corporations behave identically & soon enough the whole scheme collapses. From what I've seen, this pattern takes less than a year to complete. The companies leave SL shortly after (or rebrand as a new company to rinse-repeat) creating chaos & distrust in their wake each time the pyramid begins to crumble & all their "investors" lose money. There is no end market for the crazy surpluses of pets they distribute. Who is supposed to feed all these pets in the end? Nobody does, they are abandoned.

Pets in SL are not supposed to be an investment game, it was never this way in the past until breedables arrived.

[madman626 Fall]

You still with that crap I for one disagree with you ,,,and seen only with 25 votes no one cares,,,you seen be dead set on getting your way,, you don't talk for us we do our talking our self . So don't make that clam that we are scare.

• They are scared their animals will die.
• They are scared they will have to keep buying food & other items to keep their animals.
• They are scared there is some trick to make them pay again and again.

Pets in SL are not supposed to be an investment game, it was never this way in the past until breedables arrived.

Who are you to say it not ? 

Yeah I  got breedables and I enjoy buying and selling them

and has for the pass  things changes.

 

 

 

[KITILA Cortes]

I create, breedables. but due to a few things I hardly release them. I rather advance them so they stand out for their ability to show change in secondlife for items that leave other creators scratching their heads and try to 1 up and advance the world as well. I've spoken with nearly, if not all breedable creators that give it a go. I can say we would all agree in it is aot of hard work both scripting, and marketing to meet an ever changing market. The people who use the products are in control, not the creators. You can simply stop using the product, or  work as a community to insist changes, and discussions. A good rule of thumb in buisness is word of mouth, can make or break a creator.

[Eloise Baily]

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KITILA Cortes wrote:

I create, breedables. but due to a few things I hardly release them. I rather advance them so they stand out for their ability to show change in secondlife for items that leave other creators scratching their heads and try to 1 up and advance the world as well. I've spoken with nearly, if not all breedable creators that give it a go. I can say we would all agree in it is aot of hard work both scripting, and marketing to meet an ever changing market. The people who use the products are in control, not the creators. You can simply stop using the product, or  work as a community to insist changes, and discussions. A good rule of thumb in buisness is word of mouth, can make or break a creator.

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I think enough has been said in this thread for any creator of breedables to be able to gauge how people feel about *poofable* breedables and to respond to it. You can either change your model or not.

[Dev Khaos]

For this reason and more, the eco-project was developed to expand the "breedable-pet" market to everyone in Second Life. The code itself can handle an infinite number of simulations ranging from pets with gimmicky accessories to entire eco-systems of reproducing food sources and predator/prey simulations, as well as huntable animals for role players and easy-to-develop extensions for coders who want to contribute to the project while earning an income with a highly documented system. I urge everyone interested in developing their own 'breedables' to read up on it and think about how you can change the game from a cornered market of profit driven authoritarians to a community driven platform of exciting and easy to impliment eco-breeds.