Poll: If (when) aliens conquer Earth, what do humans become?

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

I like your explanation, actually.  It's certainly more optimistic than what

Stephen Hawking

had to say.  :smileysurprised:

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Hawking's opinion makes a lot of sense, imho. All successful species are highly competitive, and competition for resources and territory (a.k.a. war) has always been one main driving force of technological progress.

We have currently become a rather peaceful species, at least in the wealthy industrialized nations, but that is bound to change as our resources (oil, clean drinking water etc.) are rapidly depleting. Abundance and wealth cause a peaceful and less territorial behavior, lack of resources causes the exact opposite. It might very well be that we are the aliens in your scenario at some point in the distant future.

[Janelle Darkstone]

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Winter Ventura wrote:

• incubators for their young.

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I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure. 

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Tarius Auxarmes wrote:

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The aliens coming for resources scenario is also an unlikely thing to take place. The amount of resources in the asteroid belt and on other planets/moons in our solar system far eclipses those on earth so they wouldnt need to mess with our planet at all. In the case of aliens actually deciding to come and exploit our planet, they would likely do as previously said and release a virus or something of that nature; perhaps something like a neutron bomb would also be used.

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I can picture mining asteroids for metals and probably small amounts of water, but the other planets in our solar system either have very little to offer or the environmental conditions on the surface are too extreme (think of Venus with its extreme atmospheric pressure and insanely hot surface temperatures). Besides, it is pretty hard to keep livestock or grow lettuce in the asteroid belt

[Void Singer]

the question isn't when or if, but why. if you look at it from the science point of view the only things we have to offer as a planet that isn't easily accessible elsewhere, even in our own solar system, are refined metals and goods (which any civilization able to get here should have ability to do by default), and biomass with a suitable environment.

that leaves pretty much 2 likely scenarios, and 2 unlikely ones.

likely scenario #1:
extermination... we're viewed as dangerous pests. we'll probably never see them comming... just bump a large rock or 12 our way and watch us all get smashed, job done.

likely scenario #2:
desperation... somehow they got stuck here and lost access to refined good or are stuck and this is the most suitable environment,  we'd probably be viewed as dangerous pests, if they are otherwise self sufficient, else we might be a convient labor force and have a small chance to continue on as pets.

unlikely scenario #1:
Targeted colonization... apply weed killer. we're the weeds. then come in and plow the leftovers under... probably never see them, just contract a zombie plague or three and croak.

unlikely scenario #2:
alien religious directive... anything goes, extermination, conversion, consumption... but odds are it'll be bad for us... otherwise they could quietly observe or not bother with a species that can't even get off it's home rock to the neighboring rocks.

 

ETA:
there are military plans in place in many of the more developed nations, as well as a rough UN action plan in the case of alien invasion. yes really.

[Lynda Klossovsky]

I have always thought to myself, and said once or twice, that if there is some form of inteeligent life out there, that they already know about us, and thought we are all a bunch of twits, and left us alone !

 

isnt it in the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy that earth was going to be removed to make way for a new intergalactic freeway and humans were called (in galactic terms) as..mostly harmless?

[Tarius Auxarmes]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

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Tarius Auxarmes wrote:

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The aliens coming for resources scenario is also an unlikely thing to take place. The amount of resources in the asteroid belt and on other planets/moons in our solar system far eclipses those on earth so they wouldnt need to mess with our planet at all. In the case of aliens actually deciding to come and exploit our planet, they would likely do as previously said and release a virus or something of that nature; perhaps something like a neutron bomb would also be used.

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I can picture mining asteroids for metals and probably small amounts of water, but the other planets in our solar system either have very little to offer or the environmental conditions on the surface are too extreme (think of Venus with its extreme atmospheric pressure and insanely hot surface temperatures). Besides, it is pretty hard to keep livestock or grow lettuce in the asteroid belt

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Very little to offer is completely wrong. Everything in the solar system was made from the same stuff, so the other planets and everything in them will have resources similiar to Earth; elemental and basic natural compounds, excluding biologically formed materials of course. Concentrations would be different, but saying they have little in the way of resources to offer is completely wrong. Mabe you dont realize it, but Jupiter's moon Europa has several times the amount of water that Earth does(several oceans worth, would have to look up the exact amount) and the asteriod Ceres has more fresh water than Earth has. A little water this is not.

As for environment, this is what enclosed living areas and atmospheric processors/terrforming is for. I suppose I forgot to mention that the other scenario of aliens colonizing Earth would also only be for a short time in their development and hence unlikely. Wanna bet I could grow stuff in the asteroid belt? Its called hydroponics, or heck, bring/make soil to grow stuff in.

[Lanas Criss]

At best Pets... worst case Pests

We could try Peace, Love, and plenty of Root Beer Floats for everyone to seem worthy of some kindness

If that didn't work...

Try some Karate Kickaroni

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Ok, I stand corrected So you have water in abundance, but hydroponic gardens require an atmosphere and terraforming doesn't happen over night. Of course our hypothetical aliens could have hydroponic greenhouses aboard their ships, but I think the ultimate goal would be planetary colonization. Why go through all that trouble of terraforming if there is a perfectly good planet that has everything you need, including exotic carbon-based life forms that might taste great with a side of hydroponic beans and a dry Venusian chianti?

[Poenald Palen]

I think of what is rare...items formed by minds! We have lots of hyrdogen, and many other elements. I mean, just recently I read of a storm of neutrino's coming through..uh, it will make more gold in our soil....somehow. So, even rarer elements can become more abundent. We have lots of dirt basically...gases to! OH, liquid as well..heck, isn't the one of saturns moons all icy fluid like a giant slurpy or italian ice thingy? So, yeah...tonnes of dirt, gas and slop.

BUT, how many neato collectables are there? So, craphounds!

This is Cory doctorows name for people who collect...well...crap! I mean, not fecal matter....but yeah, some people collect moose droppings and one day they will be "vintage" and possibly rare...so, maybe they are also crap hounds? But, basically old stuff that people don't want. Toys, music or whatever. The alian collects this, he loves old earth stuff! Why? There isn't much of it in the universe! It has stories behind it, does neat stuff, contians a little bit of history in the very look of it and deeper into it's design you can see something of it's manufacture and so on. People put hours to form stuff from....well...dirt and other stuff that is from dirt!

So...maybe that is it! They want your old junk! Garage sales are all they seek. But they leave so you might never see some of the stuff again!

[Void Singer]

nah, I doubt they'd want our junk, and even then why kill the golden egg laying goose... just quietly snap up items and claim they are still "covering" more with neither us (who keep making it) or their buyers the wiser. just look at the trade in <insert preindustial culture here> artifacts going on right now.

colonization gets a low probability for energy consumption, (cheaper to shift local resources and terraform), but there's a chance that that it could be pushed into the desperation category if energy is abundant but time short. there's also the fact that even if they did happen to have similar biology to us, a mirrored protein here or there could make the majority of life here more deadly and difficult than carving out a nice asteroid.

if they have the tech to make the slow trip they'll already have refined living in space to a pretty comfortable level and have systems set up to process any raw materials they come across. if they have the tech for the fast trip they have the energy and means to easily shift resources locally with no reason save curiosity or cultural imperative to go wandering far afield.

cultural imperative is the biggest wildcard, and possibly the most dangerous... the benign ones mostly don't have them bothering out of the way backwaters, the dangerous ones mostly have us dead

[Deej Kasshiki]

Don't you remember Independence Day? We'd be squashed like bugs. Oh, and the aliens would have anti-virus software installed this time...

[Peewee Musytari]

Considering the difference between Humans and the rest of the creatures on earth, I would say WE are the aliens that invaded earth.

[Venus Petrov]

I thought that cockroaches had already just about conquered Earth.

Well, OK, I think aliens will behave like the s**t-faced alliance does in WoW.  On my server, that means we beat their a**es at just about everything.  So, the 'conquer' will be short-lived.

YAY Horde!!

[Void Singer]

I doubt they'd need it... we have trouble writing a virus that can work on three known and documented systems here on earth that all use the same transport protocol and similar structural paradigms..., the odds of us establishing even a basic handshake signal would be mostly blind luck, let alone a virus that could do anything to a system that may not even have a binary mode. I had a giggle fit when I watched that part of the movie.

PS the only reason we use binary in modern computing is that the simplicity of on/off is easier and cheaper to fabricate with our current level of technology. odds are if we ever get to a level of cheap or even effective quantum computing fabrication we'll probably start with a power of two base for each bit for compatibility, unless some other consideration makes it more effective to use a different base (which could include some very esoteric bases)

[Suella Ember]

As I pointed out elsewhere, we are already here:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/I-just-discovered-I-m-not-real/m-p/963921/message-uid/963921/highlight/true#U963921

As for what we have in store for you humans ... breeding. Pure and simple. Where do you think the 'redheads are sex crazed' legend comes from?

:smileyindifferent:

[Void Singer]

I wish someone had told at least two of my exes about that legend.... they seemed more focused on the violent and crazy legends.

 

hmmm would you believe that it just occurred to me that my attraction to red heads (or at least those two) might be a symptom of some of my past relationship failures?

[Janelle Darkstone]

@Suella -- Preparations for the Invasion are proceeding; the inhabitants seem more preoccupied arguing about fiction and the asteroid belt than to be paying attention to our devious plans.  Please inform High Commander Zorkon that we are on schedule.

However... we might have a slight problem.  Although most of the future breeding stock and sides of bacon seem to have accepted their fates, there might be a few who choose to... resist.  I have to admit I have never seen this before:

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Lanas Criss wrote:

Karate Kickaroni (!!!)

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Should we be concerned?

[Void Singer]

resistance is futile.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Void Singer wrote:

 

cultural imperative is the biggest wildcard, and possibly the most dangerous... the benign ones mostly don't have them bothering out of the way backwaters, the dangerous ones mostly have us dead

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Many Europeans, up into the 1970s, thought it was 'culturally benign' to re-educate and force sterilize "lesser cultures". You take the kids, sterilize the women so they don't breed more into the suffering of being a lesser race, and educate the kids to be properly Christian and culturally-white so they can at least aspire to be second class rather than savages (the reservation system in the US got its boost near the end of the Indian Wars as a result of 'well meaning' efforts to "civilize" the savages, rather than follow calls such as that by the author of Wizard of Oz to simply eradicate the survivors).

Actually, this is still going on in modern Peru against my Quechua distant cousins - though its ramped down I believe since Fujimora left. He was big on sterilizing natives. 1970s is just when it ended in the USA-reservation system.

Sometimes the savagry of belief systems that think they are doing what is morally right for their victims is a lot worse than the 'unmitigated' evil of a simple invade and kill attacker.

 

Move that as an analogy for aliens;

If they 'keep us around' the plan for what to do with us might seem 'for our better good' in their eyes but be amazingly horrid to us.

But... if they wanted anything out of the planet at all - it wouldbe trivially easy to just drop a virus into the atmosphere genetically engineering to unravel something in human DNA. Basically an AIDS or Ebola that works faster and gets set loose on a global scale. No need for a messy invasion and waste of resources taking the place - just remove its current occupants and move in.

The real questions then become:

1. Is there something you desire from the inhabtied world that is not more readily available in the solar system?

2. Will the assorted microbes of the inhabited world be dangerous to you?

Any lifeform higher than a bacteria would be no real threat to an invader. We ourselves today have the technology to 'invade' another planet this way. Our only limitation is getting there. And we'd be slow developing that super-virus. Bacteria and other assorted microbes though 'breed' at paces that make them amazingly resilient - making them as dangerous to a potential invader as the invader's super-virus would be to the natives.

The creature in 'Alien' should not have been afraid of Sigourney Weaver, but of catching a cold.

(likewise even if we ever do find peaceful aliens we want to hang out with - we might have a terrible time getting our populations to be safe from each other's microbes, unless the other guys have their DNA strands spun counter-clockwise (or clockwise, if we're counter. I don't know which we are)).

[Void Singer]

well I was viewing it from our perspective...

 

as for the orwellian dream of the invaders (or the invaded for that matter) catching a local virus... I'd put it at really low odds considering how low cross species viral transitions are...  although point to the invader for technology, and wipe us uot with a super bug (the same tech would also make them less likely to be susceptible)... it's why I included it for the colonization scenario.... bioforming would be way faster than terraforming and solve any resistance problems

 as for hanging out.... I'd be surprised if we could even talk in a meaningful way given different language options, cultural and social influences, sensory perceptions, etc etc.... and it wouldn't even take backwards dna, just a few protiens  that used the left hand isomer instead of the right and we could kill each other with pheromones accidentally

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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2. Will the assorted microbes of the inhabited world be dangerous to you?

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I don't think that would be a problem. All parasites and diseases that befall humans have evolved side by side with us. They had millions of years to specialize on our ancestors and develop methods to trick hominid immune systems.

Some diseases cross species barriers, but this only happens between somewhat related species that live in close contact for prolonged time periods (read: for thousands of years). It is very unlikely that anything in our biosphere could survive in a recently introduced alien organism (or that an alien organism could survive in the human body, for that matter).

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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2. Will the assorted microbes of the inhabited world be dangerous to you?

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I don't think that would be a problem. All parasites and diseases that befall humans have evolved side by side with us. They had millions of years to specialize on our ancestors and develop methods to trick hominid immune systems.

Some diseases cross species barriers, but this only happens between somewhat related species that live in close contact for prolonged time periods (read: for thousands of years). It is very unlikely that anything in our biosphere could survive in a recently introduced alien organism (or that an alien organism could survive in the human body, for that matter).

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it only takes a mutation such as BSE, H5N1 or HIV.

organisms are mutating all of the time.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

it only takes a mutation such as BSE, H5N1 or HIV.

organisms are mutating all of the time.

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I've covered that in my second paragraph. Like I said, diseases only cross between somewhat related species that have been living side by side for extended periods of time. (In case of H5N1: Birds and mammals are related through common reptilian ancestors and have similar immune systems).

[Dogboat Taurog]

we are all related.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

Don't you remember Independence Day? We'd be squashed like bugs. Oh, and the aliens would have anti-virus software installed this time...

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ya but we  still have Will smith..he is upgraded even more now with men in black experience and now being legand N all those good hancock powers stuff hehehe the MIB will handle it and we will never even know they were here..cause he flashed us