What Does SL Really Compete With?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

And that's plucked from the hallowed corners of incel culture labeled "being ok with it".

lolwhut? Asserting that women should have choices is "incel"? Right.

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Women are allowed to be driven by their sexuality and genitals, maybe get off the high white horse and dig into which gender drives the incredibly popular breeding kinks.

This is a strawman argument. No one has suggested that women can't be driven by strong sexual desires. No one has said a thing about kinks -- you may be right, I have no idea, but it's not relevant.

Of course women are "allowed" to be driven by their sexuality and even their genitals -- if that is what they choose. Sexual Positivity does not argue that all women must be strongly sexual. It asserts that they can be. It is, again, about choice. The entire feminist movement is about choice -- it's about not being shoehorned into categories of the sort that you seem absolutely determined to insist upon. The argument you and the two you seem so anxious to defend here are making are reductive generalizations about all women, in SL or in RL, that are close kin to the kind of paternalistic garbage that produced the madonna/whore dichotomy that we've spent the last 100+ years trying to escape from.

I too can be "driven by my sexuality" -- when I choose, and only when I choose. And not because someone who has porn on the brain projects their own preoccupations upon me and other women.

If you're a woman, and porn is your thing, that's great. Go you. But I get to choose for myself my own relationship to it.

Edited September 1 by Scylla Rhiadra
Grammar

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Of course women are "allowed" to be driven by their sexuality and even their genitals -- if that is what they choose. Sexual Positivity does not argue that all women must be strongly sexual. It asserts that they can be. It is, again, about choice. The entire feminist movement is about choice -- it's about not being shoehorned into categories of the sort that you seem absolutely determined to insist upon. The argument you and the two you seem so anxious to defend here are making are reductive generalizations about all women, in SL or in RL, that are close kin to the kind of paternalistic garbage that produced the madonna/whore dichotomy that we've spent the last 100+ years trying to escape from.

I too can be "driven by my sexuality" -- when I choose, and only when I choose. And not because someone who has porn on the brain projects their own preoccupations upon me and other women.

If you're a woman, and porn is your thing, that's great. Go you. But I get to choose for myself my own relationship to it.

It does seem to be downplayed though in the forum, especially by certain individuals who seem to think it somewhat beneath them. 

What I see is a drive to be and dress sexy but not so much about having the actual sex. That is just sort of a btw, a successful completion of the shopping to be sexy and enticing another to be attracted to the look.

[Arielle Popstar]

9 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I sincerely doubt there will ever be another platform quite like SL, although I think it's likely that there will be other platforms in the future that have all the same features (and more).

Whatever SL was intended  to be, what it has become is a combination of many thousands of people who, for more than two decades, have shaped the ways in which people used the platform, formed emotional attachments to the seemingly strangest of things and have literally defined what Second Life is and what people do here.

The only way we'll ever see another platform that competes with Second Life is if all its residents both past and present choose to join a similar platform and do it all over again, for twenty years.

There already is in both looks and function and it is significantly cheaper with less restrictions. The difference is there isn't the degree of sex culture so it does not attract that part of the population who comes to SL for that. The whole cottage industry that is in SL to support those who are here for the sexual, also stay in a sort of codependent dance.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It does seem to be downplayed though in the forum, especially by certain individuals who seem to think it somewhat beneath them. 

My own perspective has been that what gets downplayed is the reductive assertion that sex is the primary driver of everyone in SL -- with the additional insistence of people like Coffee that that reflects the fact that sex is the primary engine that motivates us all in RL. (Apparently, for instance, ACE people don't actually exist, or are somehow warped because they don't spend all day every day thinking about sex.)

Sex, far from being "beneath" most of us, is something that is important enough (to me, anyway) that I refuse to reduce it to the same level as my need for sustenance and sleep.

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What I see is a drive to be and dress sexy but not so much about having the actual sex. That is just sort of a btw, a successful completion of the shopping to be sexy and enticing another to be attracted to the look.

I think there's likely a lot of truth to that, but with the proviso that many of us choose to look "sexy" not because we want to "entice" anyone, but because we enjoy looking sexy. It doesn't need to be "for" anyone else -- and frankly I get annoyed if I am wearing something that looks attractive or even sexy, and I get hit on because the assumption is that, of course, I am looking attractive and sexy for them. It's how I choose to look, not an invitation.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

I guess it competes with Facebook, Youtube and TV for me. And often when I am doing those I am in SL as well.

Most of my free time is spent in SL, with those I mentioned coming second.

[Madelaine McMasters]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It does seem to be downplayed though in the forum, especially by certain individuals who seem to think it somewhat beneath them. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be on top!

[Rowan Amore]

57 minutes ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

The best selling item on the SL marketplace, female genitalia at L$1,999, was edged out today by hair for L$50. So female genitalia is at the number 2 position. Male genitalia does not make the top ten.

Based on this evidence, women think much more about sex than men.

And women buy them FOR men's enjoyment perhaps?  There are more women and men with female avatars in SL.  

I remember when I was new and some male avatar told me I needed to buy female parts if I wanted to have sex in SL?  Even being new, I thought this was a load of hooey.  Female parts are far less needed.than male parts in SL yet more female parts are sold.  Why?

[Arielle Popstar]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think there's likely a lot of truth to that, but with the proviso that many of us choose to look "sexy" not because we want to "entice" anyone, but because we enjoy looking sexy. It doesn't need to be "for" anyone else -- and frankly I get annoyed if I am wearing something that looks attractive or even sexy, and I get hit on because the assumption is that, of course, I am looking attractive and sexy for them. It's how I choose to look, not an invitation.

I've seen you mention this before but the jury is still out for me whether that is a small portion of the SL and RL population or not. I tend to feel it is a minority that they may have had issues in the past that turned them off of desiring a significant partner or those having one already and now are just about being "comfortable with whatever they are wearing. 

Is there really deep down Asexual people?

Edited September 1 by Arielle Popstar
spelling

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Is there really deep down Asexual people?

Yes

[Ksenia Elcano]

11 minutes ago, Carolyn Zapedzki said:

I guess it competes with Facebook, Youtube and TV for me. And often when I am doing those I am in SL as well.

Most of my free time is spent in SL, with those I mentioned coming second.

Yes, SL falls broadly into the category of entertainment, so it competes for your time with all of those, including streaming apps like Netflix and Hulu.

Within its specific entertainment category of online virtual worlds, ChatGPT provide this answer for SL's compeition:

The main competitor for Second Life has historically been IMVU. Both platforms offer virtual worlds where users can create avatars, interact with others, build virtual spaces, and engage in various social activities. While Second Life is known for its expansive user-generated content and virtual economy, IMVU focuses more on 3D chat and social networking features.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Yes

Remember that at least as far as a Wiki is concerned, that is defined as someone who : Asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction to others.

I'm assuming here on who is in the age bracket where one is normally sexually active or at least would like to be.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

1 minute ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

Yes, SL falls broadly into the category of entertainment, so it competes for your time with all of those, including streaming apps like Netflix and Hulu.

Within its specific entertainment category of online virtual worlds, ChatGPT provide this answer for SL's compeition:

The main competitor for Second Life has historically been IMVU. Both platforms offer virtual worlds where users can create avatars, interact with others, build virtual spaces, and engage in various social activities. While Second Life is known for its expansive user-generated content and virtual economy, IMVU focuses more on 3D chat and social networking features.

Yeah, I tried IMVU before SL and wasn't keen on it. 

Never delved into CHATGPT

[Love Zhaoying]

SL really competes with itself from 10-15 years ago.

[Luna Bliss]

These male-female issues being discussed -- I've found that many actual men in 1st & 2nd life understand these issues far better than the men I've encountered in SL who are only presenting as a female avatar in SL.   Maybe the latter are trying but just don't get it, but in my experience they repeatedly demonstrate a lack of knowledge regarding women's issues.

I think considering the above is important for understanding which games really do compete with SL, or could in the future.

Edited September 1 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think there's likely a lot of truth to that, but with the proviso that many of us choose to look "sexy" not because we want to "entice" anyone, but because we enjoy looking sexy. It doesn't need to be "for" anyone else -- and frankly I get annoyed if I am wearing something that looks attractive or even sexy, and I get hit on because the assumption is that, of course, I am looking attractive and sexy for them. It's how I choose to look, not an invitation.

Expand  

I've seen you mention this before but the jury is still out for me whether that is a small portion of the SL and RL population or not. I tend to feel it is a minority that they may have had issues in the past that turned them off of desiring a significant partner or those having one already and now are just about being "comfortable with whatever they are wearing. 

Is there really deep down Asexual people?

It's like playing dolls, dressing them up for fun and/or dressing them up as an artistic expression.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Is there really deep down Asexual people?

Yeah, and it's an umbrella term, so there are several different types who fall under it.

 

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I've seen you mention this before but the jury is still out for me whether that is a small portion of the SL and RL population or not.

It's really, really, really common, at least in my own RL and SL experience. If in doubt, grab a bunch of women, go shopping for a night on the town, spend time getting dressed/ready together, and then go to any nightclub and watch how they react to certain types of comments.

[Coffee Pancake]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

with the additional insistence of people like Coffee that that reflects the fact that sex is the primary engine that motivates us all in RL. (Apparently, for instance, ACE people don't actually exist, or are somehow warped because they don't spend all day every day thinking about sex.)

I AM ACE

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

eah, and it's an umbrella term, so there are several different types who fall under it.

A range, spectrum, a continuum..

[Arielle Popstar]

22 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Yeah, and it's an umbrella term, so there are several different types who fall under it.

It's really, really, really common, at least in my own RL and SL experience. If in doubt, grab a bunch of women, go shopping for a night on the town, spend time getting dressed/ready together, and then go to any nightclub and watch how they react to certain types of comments.

The definition in the Wiki expressly separated the term as to not refer to those who are asexual for other reasons like religious, cultural and behavioural celibacy which makes me wonder how many think they are asexual when they really fall under a different heading. Not meaning you but in general.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

These male-female issues being discussed --

I see it as a more "human" issue rather then a specific gender one.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

33 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Is there really deep down Asexual people?

You don't have to be asexual to not be preoccupied with sex. 

Just because you find someone physically attractive doesn't mean you're obligated or compelled to act upon it.  I've always found it fascinating how some people will allow their instincts to dictate their actions and will only use their intellect after the fact in order to try and justify them.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

You don't have to be asexual to not be preoccupied with sex. 

I am not being judgmental when I say that probably most normal, "average",  adults are not preoccupied with sex.  Especially those who are:

1) In a stable relationship (their need for sex is fulfilled).  Do people really think their own parents are (or were) preoccupied with sex during the best parts of their relationship, where their needs were fulfilled?

2) Are older (their need for sex was fulfilled and/or that need has "passed").  Do people really think their own grandparents are (or were) preoccupied with sex in their later years?

Just because the hypothetical "you" (not you, Fluffy) or "a lot of people you know" are preoccupied with sex, and because "messaging in society and the media" would seem to mean "everyone" is preoccupied with sex, does not make it true.

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

These male-female issues being discussed --

I see it as a more "human" issue rather then a specific gender one.

We need to become aware of sexual stereotypes foisted on both genders. If we grew up a certain gender likely we have trouble seeing the perspectives of the other gender.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

22 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The definition in the Wiki expressly separated the term as to not refer to those who are asexual for other reasons like religious, cultural and behavioural celibacy which makes me wonder how many think they are asexual when they really fall under a different heading. Not meaning you but in general.

That isn't what I was referring to exactly. More specifically, I meant the sub-identities linked from the Wiki you quoted. Gray, semi, demi, etc. There's a range that fit under that general umbrella.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Just because the hypothetical "you" (not you, Fluffy) or "a lot of people you know" are preoccupied with sex, and because "messaging in society and the media" would seem to mean "everyone" is preoccupied with sex, does not make it true.

This is a valid point!  Perhaps my misconceptions about the number of people who are preoccupied with sex comes from reading these forums and constantly being told that sex is the only thing that's keeping SL afloat anymore. 🤔

ETA: I still think people are, in general, ruled by their instincts far more than most realise and tend to act on them and then try to conjure up logical reasons to explain them (reasons which usually didn't really play any part in their decision making process at the time).

Edited September 1 by Fluffy Sharkfin