Paul Hexem Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: The problems that this update are causing for some are real. And telling someone who is using an 8 year old laptop that was working just fine until now that they should just man up and buy a new one, while a not unrealistic response, is a bit tone deaf given that someone who is using an 8 year old laptop very likely can't afford a new one. That's a simple reality of some people's RL, and it's pretty insensitive not to take it into account. To be fair, you can only offer to help so many times before it becomes clear that they don't want it and empathy goes right out the window. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: To be fair, you can only offer to help so many times before it becomes clear that they don't want it and empathy goes right out the window. Yes, eventually you figure out people just want to "vent". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I can see how PBR is merely one step, in a steps, to improve the overall quality of Second Life in such a way that users have a more "modern gaming" experience. From that point of view, it may not "bring new people in", but it may help convince people to stay a little awhile on their first exposure - because of the "shiny". Just an opinion, as with so many others expressed here by so many others. That is sort of what I'm saying -- this shouldn't be seen as, in and of itself, a move made to make the platform more "appealing," but rather one that sets the stage for future developments down the road which might, or which will at least forestall SL from becoming so badly out-of-date that it's no longer viable. At the moment, though, SL does not look better (although god knows it looks more "shiny"!) to a whole lot of people. And that's largely (as I've argued ad nauseam) because they haven't made enough of an effort to mitigate the changes to the lighting system by also updating the EEP library. Edited June 24 by Scylla Rhiadra Extra word 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) *skips 10 pages* Is there a useful "Guide to Surviving PBR Problems" out there? Something that puts all the ideas people are posting in one place. If your world looks blue, try __________ If everything looks too shiny or grease covered, try _____________ If your world is too bright, try _________ If your computer is struggling, try disabling ______________ or lowering ____________ If you refuse to adapt, try __________ and then sit on your thumb and spin. If you just think PBR makes everything icky and greasy, tough luck, but see above note about shininess. Edited June 24 by Cinnamon Mistwood 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: To be fair, you can only offer to help so many times before it becomes clear that they don't want it and empathy goes right out the window. Sure. Someone who is just unresponsive, or merely wants to rant isn't worth the time. But it's always possible to be polite and civil and restrained!!! Why, for instance, when was the last time I yelled at you? /me smiles brightly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: s there a useful "Guide to Surviving PBR Problems" out there? Something that puts all the ideas people are posting in one place. NO. There is not. And yes, there should be, and not (as I said when it was first published) the gawdawful wiki page on this. Some of us have been saying just this for literally over half a year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: merely wants to rant isn't worth the time. Well, we can listen and reply politely, at least. Not worth the time arguing with, probably! 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: when was the last time I yelled at you? Probably overdue! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Probably overdue! Good point. GOD DAMNIT, PAUL!!!!! 😡 That felt surprisingly good! 🙃 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: But it's always possible to be polite and civil and restrained!!! Clearly you didn't read the last thread I started. @Love Zhaoyingwas there. Edited June 24 by Paul Hexem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: Clearly you didn't read the last thread I started. @Love Zhaoyingwas there. Whatever it was, I didn't do it. And even if I did, I was misunderstood. And even if I wasn't, I didn't mean it. And even if I did, they deserved it. And even if they didn't, you can't make me admit it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) If LL had ONLY included something in these changes to enhance "SL Sex", then the majority would have accepted it, no matter what got worse. Edited June 24 by Love Zhaoying misplaced comma 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: @animatsis developing a viewer in Rust, from scratch. (Hope I got that right.) Yes, but it's a huge job, and after three and a half years, looks interminable. I want to try some things LL isn't doing, but a finished viewer is a long way off. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 16 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: *skips 10 pages* Is there a useful "Guide to Surviving PBR Problems" out there? Something that puts all the ideas people are posting in one place. If your world looks blue, try __________ If everything looks too shiny or grease covered, try _____________ If your world is too bright, try _________ If your computer is struggling, try disabling ______________ or lowering ____________ If you refuse to adapt, try __________ and then sit on your thumb and spin. If you just think PBR makes everything icky and greasy, tough luck, but see above note about shininess. The only advice I heard from the gaslight and cheer crowdd is. "Get a high end PC". Logic, cause if you have none, your performance is lousy. Inavoidably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 36 minutes ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said: So a difference of opinion is nonsense? Ah ok then. Say no more. No. This is not opinion. This is how electrical engineering works. Every single part of every computer ever built, and every other electrical device, will have design specifications. you can look up these specifications on a part by part basis using datasheets. Here is an example of a datasheet - Notice that it's a very complex document, 15 pages of information including a lot of charts. If I need chip that does X, in Y time under Z operating conditions there will be a specific part that is explicitly rated to meet those requirements. This includes big complex parts like your GPU and CPU and the decisions made by engineers building the platform to support those components. Use all your hardware as hard as you can. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, BriannaLovey said: With PBR, it is likely going to require the backend to be switched from OpenGL to Vulkan in order to come close to the speed of forward rendering (ALM disabled.) I don´t see that on the horizon. If they seriously had considered Vulcan they´d have started with that and not with trying to plaster some Vulcan stuff on top of OpenGL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 5 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The only advice I heard from the gaslight and cheer crowdd is. "Get a high end PC". Not sure if I saw that from anyone. It DID seem like some with high-end PC's were "bragging", but it's hard to tell sometimes if they are merely "stating facts" from their point of view. In fact, they were complaining too! My PC works fine and it was $799, now they sell that model for $779. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: I don´t see that on the horizon. If they seriously had considered Vulcan they´d have started with that and not with trying to plaster some Vulcan stuff on top of OpenGL. Its in the plans, the Vulkan thing, but down the road. Its been discussed a bunch at viewer meetings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neremyn Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) I see people with worse FPS than meand better hardware, you really need to look up your computer. In a club with 75 people with mid settings I'd get over 60FPS and 15-23FPS at Ultra(* edit 32m draw distance). Overclocked 8700K and old 1660 Super. 1 hour ago, animats said: Yes, but it's a huge job, and after three and a half years, looks interminable. I want to try some things LL isn't doing, but a finished viewer is a long way off. What would be the point of that besides being memory safe? I haven't seen anything in practice that improves over C/C++ performance. Edited June 24 by Neremyn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 5 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: I don´t see that on the horizon. If they seriously had considered Vulcan they´d have started with that and not with trying to plaster some Vulcan stuff on top of OpenGL. The roadmap is PBR - > GLTF -> VULKAN 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 9 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The only advice I heard from the gaslight and cheer crowdd is. "Get a high end PC". Logic, cause if you have none, your performance is lousy. Inavoidably. You basically have a high end machine, which obviously needs some sort of reconfiguration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagachief Darkstone Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said: *skips 10 pages* Is there a useful "Guide to Surviving PBR Problems" out there? Something that puts all the ideas people are posting in one place. If your world looks blue, try __________ If everything looks too shiny or grease covered, try _____________ If your world is too bright, try _________ If your computer is struggling, try disabling ______________ or lowering ____________ If you refuse to adapt, try __________ and then sit on your thumb and spin.If you just think PBR makes everything icky and greasy, tough luck, but see above note about shininess. I at least have some answers in the form of this playlist of tutorials I made. It won't solve all of the issues, but it will at least eliminate one cause. Youtube Playlist Edited June 24 by Nagachief Darkstone Whoops! I forgot to link it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Not sure if I saw that from anyone. It DID seem like some with high-end PC's were "bragging", but it's hard to tell sometimes if they are merely "stating facts" from their point of view. In fact, they were complaining too! My PC works fine and it was $799, now they sell that model for $779. If you are satisfied with minimum settings and/or 15 fps max in the plains, all fine. Unfortunately the rest of the planet expects a bit more form an app which calls itself "3D virtual world". Also, tons of SL users which are simply p..... off now expect a bit more. So this "update" does not help anyone. And if you try to tell me what the 99 percent users who never post anything on any of these forums here think on it...go to some place and ask them. If they logged in at all. Or deleted FS 7 for returning to FS 6. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 minutes ago, Modulated said: You basically have a high end machine, which obviously needs some sort of reconfiguration. It does not ee any reconfiguration for FS 6, nor for any other game. What needs reconfiguration...is this viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Not sure if I saw that from anyone. It DID seem like some with high-end PC's were "bragging", but it's hard to tell sometimes if they are merely "stating facts" from their point of view. In fact, they were complaining too! My PC works fine and it was $799, now they sell that model for $779. If you are satisfied with minimum settings and/or 15 fps max in the plains, all fine. I never said that I use minimum settings, neither did I say what my fps it. I haven't actually complained at all. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nagachief Darkstone said: I at least have some answers in the form of this playlist of tutorials I made. It won't solve all of the issues, but it will at least eliminate one cause. Thanks! Oh! Your video ended up in the quote where people won't see it. Can you edit it and drop it in the reply! Edited June 24 by Cinnamon Mistwood Spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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