Is Lindenlab choosing a doomed path for SL ? Tell us if the EEP and PBR introduction changed the way you play SL

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This has been said here before, by others as well as myself, but this is NOT a good solution because it reduces the light in ALL EEPs. One of the issues with PBR is that it ups contrast: brights are brighter, and darkness is darker. All this does is ensure that darker EEPs are impenetrably gloomy.

Nam's or Cawl is all I or many others use. That is why EEP and likely PBR to some extent is such a colossal waste of time. Only photographers, landscaper and a smattering of others will change the setting to something different. But even then, just knowing the exposure slider is there, allows one to compensate to get the degree of luminosity needed for the individual. 

They should make Exposure a Quick Preference.

[Cristiano Midnight]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

/me looks crossly at Cris.

One of these days your face is going to stay that way. Slight adjustments to exposure does take the edge off of blinding brightness without doom and gloom on darker eeps. I am not suggesting huge change. Also, once the user knows about the setting, they can fine tune it for their own needs.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

The people who are unable to RTFM are many of the same people who are psychologically vulnerable enough to spend all their disposable income on virtual stuff from SL. Keep that in mind.

And people who don't know the language or jargon that well as well as people who have TL;DR syndrome.

[Cristiano Midnight]

3 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

The people who are unable to RTFM are many of the same people who are psychologically vulnerable enough to spend all their disposable income on virtual stuff from SL. Keep that in mind.

Hey now, I RTFM and spend way too much in SL lol.

[Modulated]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Nam's or Cawl is all I or many others use. That is why EEP and likely PBR to some extent is such a colossal waste of time. Only photographers, landscaper and a smattering of others will change the setting to something different. But even then, just knowing the exposure slider is there, allows one to compensate to get the degree of luminosity needed for the individual. 

They should make Exposure a Quick Preference.

You can make any debug setting a Quick Pref..even exposure. RenderExposure is the debug...and since I like to help people who help themselves, you'll figure out the rest.

[Cristiano Midnight]

8 minutes ago, Modulated said:

It's not for you...but a great many that scream for help are, they just can't be bothered. Neither can I when they act like that.

oh I know it was not directed at me. I’m just saying it’s not necessarily laziness per se.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I disagree, Nams and Cawl still smooth out the neck seam like no other environment setting that I have seen.

"Numb's Unoptimised Thing & Prim" and "Crawl" are, and always have been two of the WORST families of windlight/eep settings ever devised.

 

They basically rely on cranking the ambience colour/strength way too high, and washing out shadows.

 

That always made me laugh, people lowering their frame rate by turning shadows on, then DELIBERATELY choosing to use a bad windlight that destroys the shadows.

And the reason why they did it is the funniest thing about it.

 

"Dear Forum, I'm shocked and outraged that the area under my chin is darker than my bare shoulders and arms and face, what is the cause of this terrible bug and why don't the devs fix it!"

 

"Dear Idiot, the darkness under your chin is the result of your massive ego-inflated swollen head blocking out all the daylight beneath it. Working as intended."

 

[Extrude Ragu]

15 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Just because somebody has spent years tinkering with the LL Fail-Viewer doesn't mean they are in anyway suitable to crowbar in PBR.

We got ample proof of that in December, which is why we're in this mess now.

I understand the sentiment, but what I would say is that in this case, I disagree with where you are pointing your grievances - In my opinion it should be pointed at the leadership instead.

Reason being is this - The developers had and are currently maintaining a backlog of ongoing known issues with the PBR viewer, that they were working their way through. Most of the issues were known back then. Leadership knew the facts, and ultimately it was leadership who made the decision to release in the state it was back in December.

Do I agree with the leadership decision? Hindsight is 20/20 and personally I'd have probably kept it in the oven a couple of months minimum. Do I think they are terrible leaders because of it? Not really. Software development is a notoriously hard field to get right. We all like to think everyone but ourselves is an idiot, but life is more nuanced than that.

Do I think the developers are incompetent? slow? Well, maybe to the average resident it might appear that way. But as someone who has worked in Software Engineering for ten years, having seen what they have to maintain, the expectations placed on them,  looking through their commits, seeing how they behave at meetings etc - I think they are probably the best you could ask for. Just my opinion of course.

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Modulated said:

You can make any debug setting a Quick Pref..even exposure. RenderExposure is the debug...and since I like to help people who help themselves, you'll figure out the rest.

Oh nice, thanks! Too bad that info isn't given out to more people. Makes it nice to be able to have customized Quick Preferences.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

You mean like a sl*t ao for that degenerate night on the town and a prim and proper ao when you go see gramma on her birthday in the old folks home?

.."Projection"..?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

18 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

One of these days your face is going to stay that way.

You mean Cris-crossed?

You are wrong.

/me folds her arms across her chest defiantly 😜

[Cristiano Midnight]

10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

"Numb's Unoptimised Thing & Prim" and "Crawl" are, and always have been two of the WORST families of windlight/eep settings ever devised.

 

They basically rely on cranking the ambience colour/strength way too high, and washing out shadows.

 

That always made me laugh, people lowering their frame rate by turning shadows on, then DELIBERATELY choosing to use a bad windlight that destroys the shadows.

And the reason why they did it is the funniest thing about it.

 

"Dear Forum, I'm shocked and outraged that the area under my chin is darker than my bare shoulders and arms and face, what is the cause of this terrible bug and why don't the devs fix it!"

 

"Dear Idiot, the darkness under your chin is the result of your massive ego-inflated swollen head blocking out all the daylight beneath it. Working as intended."

 

I am amazed at your ability to come up with a sneering perjorative nickname for literally everything. I found it off putting at first but now it amuses the hell out of me.

[CaithLynnSayes]

Ah yes. Typical human behavior. That's all i see, is typical human behavior towards something new. I think there's a Monty Python sketch around that i believe. I didn't read all of the posts in this thread (because it's a hot one and i'm late to the party, i will eventually.) But i did read a handful of them, obviously including the OP.

My impression of the OP, a little bit overly dramatic. Sorry but it sorta is. I beta test Firestorm. I forget how many Alpha's and beta's i got through till this release but it's a lot. When i beta test, i usually test it on a few different systems. My main machine is a:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900KS CPU @ 4.90GHz

Memory: 131072 MB

Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti

 

while my test machine is a:

 

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz

Memory: 32637 MB

Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti

Forget the main machine, although it's slightly aging, it is a fairly powerful thing, but i want to bring your attention to the test machine. For those who don't really understand all these numbers and whatnot, the test machine is around 10 years old. Granted, it has had a few upgrades. The 32GB memory is above average and the GTX 980 Ti might also be above average although it is also showing it's age being released June 2015 (Oh look, it's probably it's birthday today.) But the main point here is that this machine is fairly capable of dealing with PBR on reasonably high settings. I would not take it to crowded places, but if you're using firestorm, you can make presets of graphics settings. I did just that, and when i go to crowded places with that machine, i tone it down just a tad and the machine is just fine.

I'm aware a good chunk of people use laptops to enter SL and that might indeed be a tricky one to deal with, but my point is, a 10(+, i think) computer is reasonable capable of handing it. I don't think it's fair to "call out" LL here on this change. Some people here have rightfully pointed out that if LL doesn't "get with the times" it will be left behind and they are doing just that, getting with the times. You probably just don't like that your older machine is now sweating bullets and screaming bloody murder, trying to scrape together more them 10 frames a second. That is not LL's fault.

 

Now, as for screaming murder and fire all over the place of LL ending itself. First of all, try and get a grip, would ya? lol. Like others have mentioned before, a lot of people will yell and scream and almost threaten to leave SL.  (as if that is suppose to mean something) Ok, then go. So what? Every time a major change was pushed people screamed and once that died down, normalcy returned. Well, you know what i mean, as normal as SL would possibly get.

PBR is here to say and from what I've seen, there are some pretty neat things that have been done with it, given enough creativity. I've seen people here suggest that because of PBR, you will see mirror-like asphalt and shiny beaches. Sure, you might see that, but i'm sure the creators that do this, don't intend to do this and it might be a learning curve for them. (And a good argument for modifiable things!)

 

So, while entertaining and highly predictable to read some of the posts here, i bet you my left bottom cheek that this hoopla you're all engaging in, will die off eventually and we'll all accept PBR and do some amazing things with it.

 

And when that happens, i'm going to call LL to turn off PBR for about 20 minutes so i can come have a look at these forums with a bag of popcorn to see you all scream bloody murder and fire yet again.  

Edited June 23 by CaithLynnSayes
It's Sunday, typo's are allowed.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

.."Projection"..?

Sl*t Projectors?

Is this a proposed new addon for PBR. a special kkind of invisible prim, with a negative z axis cone, like a projector light, with an angle and range, that instantly turns any avatar walking into said cone into a Sl*t?

Should be popular in the doorways of sex clubs on Zindra...

 

Edited June 23 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Cristiano Midnight]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You mean Cris-crossed?

You are wrong.

/me folds her arms across her chest defiantly 😜

/me flashes you 👻

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

"Numb's Unoptimised Thing & Prim" and "Crawl" are, and always have been two of the WORST families of windlight/eep settings ever devised.

 

They basically rely on cranking the ambience colour/strength way too high, and washing out shadows.

 

That always made me laugh, people lowering their frame rate by turning shadows on, then DELIBERATELY choosing to use a bad windlight that destroys the shadows.

And the reason why they did it is the funniest thing about it.

 

"Dear Forum, I'm shocked and outraged that the area under my chin is darker than my bare shoulders and arms and face, what is the cause of this terrible bug and why don't the devs fix it!"

 

"Dear Idiot, the darkness under your chin is the result of your massive ego-inflated swollen head blocking out all the daylight beneath it. Working as intended."

 

So that's why shadows don't work when I am on those environment. No one ever mentioned that. I wasn't particularly worried about it because I usually have shadows off but did wonder about it when I was playing with the settings. So best to use facelights to get rid of the neckseam?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Cristiano Midnight said:

/me flashes you 👻

"MODS!!!!!!!!!"

Where the hell are the cops when you NEED them???

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So that's why shadows don't work when I am on those environment. No one ever mentioned that. I wasn't particularly worried about it because I usually have shadows off but did wonder about it when I was playing with the settings. So best to use facelights to get rid of the neckseam?

OMG, are you TRYING to come up with the worst possible solutions ever?

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

I am amazed at your ability to come up with a sneering perjorative nickname for literally everything. I found it off putting at first but now it amuses the hell out of me.

I can't wait to be in on the joke one day!

[Cristiano Midnight]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

OMG, are you TRYING to come up with the worst possible solutions ever?

I think Arielle is trying to kill you.

[Cristiano Midnight]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So that's why shadows don't work when I am on those environment. No one ever mentioned that. I wasn't particularly worried about it because I usually have shadows off but did wonder about it when I was playing with the settings. So best to use facelights to get rid of the neckseam?

Or, hear me out, match your face and body skins? 

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:59 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

This is Nam's Optimal Skin 2 in Pre PBR 

 

 

And this in the PBR viewer

 

43 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I disagree, Nams and Cawl still smooth out the neck seam like no other environment setting that I have seen.

I have to admit, I don't see a neck seam at all in that second one...

[CaithLynnSayes]

7 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Sl*t Projectors?

Is this a proposed new addon for PBR. a special kkind of invisible prim, with a negative z axis cone, like a projector light, with an angle and range, that instantly turns any avatar walking into said cone into a Sl*t?

Should be popular in the doorways of sex clubs on Zindra...

 

 

I don't know why, but when i read your post, my mind went:

 

I should see a therapist, shouldn't i?

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

Or, hear me out, match your face and body skins? 

Not always an easy task. Even my partner has some trouble with that at times because for a while it was difficult to get matching skins for body and head, so it was mix and match and pick the best of combination with an environment that blended the seam to some degree.

Edited June 23 by Arielle Popstar
I swear the forum make the spelling mistakes when I post!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So that's why shadows don't work when I am on those environment. No one ever mentioned that. I wasn't particularly worried about it because I usually have shadows off but did wonder about it when I was playing with the settings. So best to use facelights to get rid of the neckseam?

Those two EEPs are usually recommended for things like head/face shaping and trying on skins. The entire point is they remove shadows around the face (around the nose, under the eyes, around the cheeks/chin/neck, etc.) so you can shape yourself without the harsh dark patches that some settings create. I also use it for makeup and face tat application (I mix/match and layer a lot).

It's a good idea to mess around with different EEPs after you're done shaping so you can see what you actually look like in more typical lighting situations, but I just leave it on because I personally don't care at all about seeing different SL lighting outside of my photo studio (and keep shadows off anyway, unless I'm in BD doing a photo session).

Edited June 23 by Ayashe Ninetails
Added stuffs