Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Regarding the title, "Is Linden Lab choosing a suicidal path": - Could be about Lemmings (Factoid: Note that Lemmings do not really "commit suicide", that was staged by Disney and was debunked decades ago) - Could be about "pathfinding" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Dorientje Woller said: "Say goodbye to outdated and inefficient aircoolers" ... if that's the gimmick to buy a PC with liquid cooling, that integrator is pulling the wool over your eyes. Aircoolers are rising in popularity again and are getting better and better in efficiency. I'm not really a fan of liquid cooling, except on cars, but that seems to be the current must have thing on computers I've had my box open for so long with external fans blowing on the graphics card that I'll probably do it on the new computer too 😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 6 minutes ago, Istelathis said: If there is a hell, I think it would entail some form of retail work. I've done retail, its not too bad, my worst job would be restaurant server 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said: I'm not really a fan of liquid cooling, except on cars, but that seems to be the current must have thing on computers I've had my box open for so long with external fans blowing on the graphics card that I'll probably do it on the new computer too 😆 My CPU is cooled with a DeepCool AS500 Plus, 70 Euro aircooler. Sadly, DeepCool has been banned in the US for some reason since yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said: I've done retail, its not too bad, my worst job would be restaurant server Mine was working at a hotel, I was robbed twice before I decided it was not worth my life 🤣 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: There is a discernible lack of empathy from some of those responding to complaints here, and, equally, a little too much rage posting from some who are unhappy. The problems that this update are causing for some are real. And telling someone who is using an 8 year old laptop that was working just fine until now that they should just man up and buy a new one, while a not unrealistic response, is a bit tone deaf given that someone who is using an 8 year old laptop very likely can't afford a new one. That's a simple reality of some people's RL, and it's pretty insensitive not to take it into account. This is the heart of the matter. But the OP and others "in the same boat" are loose with their insults of LL and dismissive of their decisions. It's one thing to say "Gosh this sucks, it's making it much harder to enjoy SL", and another thing to accuse LL of being arrogant and uncaring, and forecasting certain doom for them because they have left part of their user base behind. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecla Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: My CPU is cooled with a DeepCool AS500 Plus, 70 Euro aircooler. Sadly, DeepCool has been banned in the US for some reason since yesterday. In June 2024 the company was subject to US sanctions after selling goods to Russian companies that the US judged to be useful in Russia's war against Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 7 minutes ago, Thecla said: But the OP and others "in the same boat" are loose with their insults of LL and dismissive of their decisions. It's one thing to say "Gosh this sucks, it's making it much harder to enjoy SL", and another thing to accuse LL of being arrogant and uncaring, and forecasting certain doom for them because they have left part of their user base behind. This is, sadly, all too normal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, Istelathis said: uber/lyft/doordash are options for people who have a newer car, the rest I haven't a clue about. In general, I don't trust any of the work remotely sites, and think there is a lot of competition. When watching videos on how to generate money online for free, it is almost always scammy looking, requires a skillset that you will be underpaid for, or is being sponsored by someone who wants you to use their code so they can earn money through you signing up. Selling on Ebay or craigslist seems to involve a lot of work looking around for something to sell, having space to store all of the junk, then you have to deal with your customers. A lot of these kinds of jobs, are a huge time sink, which I think would probably be better suited for just getting a normal job. I dunno. Food deliver is something I've done, and continue to do when I want some spending cash, and it was decent enough, but I have a car that gets great gas mileage, plasma donation is not very involving, and easy for most people who are looking for an easy means of earning extra bucks without a hassle. Online surveys are an absolute nightmare, which I wouldn't suffer on anyone 🤣 Definitely good points, and you're very correct that some (not all) sites underpay like freakin' mad. I purposefully didn't include one I used for way longer than I'd care to admit because it's essentially worthless now. Good years ago when it was possible to qualify for high-paying jobs, though. I've been working remote/freelance since about 2014 when I rage quit my long-term temp-to-promised-permanent-job (long story) and refused to step foot in another big corporation again, so I was in desperate need of better options. Deciding to freelance at that point was a hail Mary and I put a ton of time into researching companies and platforms that I could work with with my current skillset, so I've been doing this for a bit. If you just want to search for more permanent 1099 or employee remote jobs instead of platform work, try FlexJobs (paid subscription, but they filter out scams), Indeed (they have a remote search), Twitter believe it or not (lots post work on there - mostly in media/journalism, game dev, writing/blogging, programming, social media), and places like LinkedIn. I actually got my current remote AI training gig through a friend I met while working on that crappy platform and we've been doing stuff in this field for years now, so if you network enough, these things can definitely pay off. If upgrading a PC and buying a few parts for SL or gaming is all you're looking to do and you don't need steady permanent work right off the bat, I'd definitely check around and see what's out there. There are a LOT of things you can do depending on your skillset (I've done everything from content and blog writing to audio transcription to wrangling bots and more). Feel free to poke my inbox if you want more info about anything. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothless Draegonne Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 9 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I'm not really a fan of liquid cooling, except on cars, but that seems to be the current must have thing on computers I've had my box open for so long with external fans blowing on the graphics card that I'll probably do it on the new computer too 😆 The big advantage to liquid cooling is being able to choose where that hefty chunk of radiating copper goes, rather than having it dangle off your GPU or CPU slot like a breezeblock. Air cooling is fine, just make sure you have actual air flow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: Feel free to poke my inbox 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Toothless Draegonne said: There already are and they never went away. You can turn shadows off. You can reduce or remove reflections. You can (and probably should if you don't have crazy hardware) disable mirrors. You can set water to not be transparent. All the things you could do before, you can still do. ALM was never the problem. PBR is not the problem. You can't individually disable the material channels globally for PBR materials like you could do by turning ALM off. That is what the PBR equivalent would be, and no viewer has implemented it so far. I say this because it is something that would decrease the GPU load. There are likely other toggle switches that could be implemented. I would have to look at the engine itself more closely to tell you. Edited June 24 by BriannaLovey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothless Draegonne Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 14 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said: You can't individually disable the material channels globally for PBR materials like you could do by turning ALM off. That is what the PBR equivalent would be, and no viewer has implemented it so far. That was never the cause of low FPS. Shadows, and to a lesser extent transparent llWater was. Low VRAM availability could always be combatted by limiting textures to 512px in your graphics preferences, and you can still do that. This is still something you can disable. You never needed to disable ALM to begin with. You don't need to somehow disable PBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Toothless Draegonne said: That was never the cause of low FPS. Shadows, and to a lesser extent transparent llWater was. Low VRAM availability could always be combatted by limiting textures to 512px in your graphics preferences, and you can still do that. This is still something you can disable. You never needed to disable ALM to begin with. You don't need to somehow disable PBR. I would rather have 40FPS than 10-15 FPS, so I would actually like to keep it disabled. I can do so for now, thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothless Draegonne Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, BriannaLovey said: I would rather have 40FPS than 10-15 FPS, so I would actually like to keep it disabled. I can do so for now, thankfully. So would I, which is why I just wouldn't run with shadows on with a cheap PC. And still enjoy the advantages of ALM, or PBR now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Toothless Draegonne said: So would I, which is why I just wouldn't run with shadows on with a cheap PC. And still enjoy the advantages of ALM, or PBR now. Even with all the fancy settings disabled, I still get double the frame rate with PBR turned off and ALM disabled. It just isn't possible to make any better without doing what I just suggested, and making the more GPU-heavy parts of PBR optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Toothless Draegonne said: So would I, which is why I just wouldn't run with shadows on with a cheap PC. And still enjoy the advantages of ALM, or PBR now. Toothless, I'm not sure how my computer differs from yours, but it's simply counterfactual in my everyday experience that ALM doesn't play in a role in lag. I'm a photographer, and I switch back and forth between different graphics settings a lot, and I'm very well aware, from long and occasionally painful experience, what will slow my computer down. Simply switching on ALM on the old pre-PBR viewers I use (Firestorm, the LL viewer, and Black Dragon) knocks my FPS down, depending upon context, about 20 FPS. That's without shadows or SSAO turned on. ALM is literally the only changed variable. It may not impact on some kinds of GPUs or CPUs, but it's effect on my computer is measurable, significant, and unquestionable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 8 minutes ago, Toothless Draegonne said: So would I, which is why I just wouldn't run with shadows on with a cheap PC. And still enjoy the advantages of ALM, or PBR now. If you try to run Firestorm without a dedicated GPU, you will see what we mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothless Draegonne Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Toothless, I'm not sure how my computer differs from yours, but it's simply counterfactual in my everyday experience that ALM doesn't play in a role in lag. I'm a photographer, and I switch back and forth between different graphics settings a lot, and I'm very well aware, from long and occasionally painful experience, what will slow my computer down. Simply switching on ALM on the old pre-PBR viewers I use (Firestorm, the LL viewer, and Black Dragon) knocks my FPS down, depending upon context, about 20 FPS. That's without shadows or SSAO turned on. ALM is literally the only changed variable. It may not impact on some kinds of GPUs or CPUs, but it's effect on my computer is measurable, significant, and unquestionable. If you drop 20fps, I have to question what it was to begin with. Going from 360 to 340fps is not exactly significant. Literally any machine outside of 15 year old Intel iGPU machines can run SL. And even the old Intel iGPUs can probably still make a go of it if you're prepared to run the viewer in full potat mode with 512px textures and render-friends-only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothless Draegonne Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said: If you try to run Firestorm without a dedicated GPU, you will see what we mean. Literally an 1165G7 with Xe96EU integrated GPU and 4GB shared VRAM from a pool of 16GB. Or maybe you want the other handheld with its Z1E APU, with RDNA-based shared graphics? I have a pretty wide range of hardware, and SL can run on all of them, to a greater or lesser extent. You categorically do not need some uber gamer rig to slap everything on ultra. You can get away with spectacularly low-end hardware if you drop some stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Toothless Draegonne said: If you drop 20fps, I have to question what it was to begin with. Going from 360 to 340fps is not exactly significant. Literally any machine outside of 15 year old Intel iGPU machines can run SL. And even the old Intel iGPUs can probably still make a go of it if you're prepared to run the viewer in full potat mode with 512px textures and render-friends-only. On a good day, with ALM turned off on my sky platform, I used to be able to get upwards of 110 FPS. It would drop to about 90 or so with ALM on, and maybe about 60 at Ultra. With the new FS viewer, I'm getting under 30 at ultra. The vast majority of people I know in SL aren't seeing anything even close to 360 FPS, under any circumstances. I'm not arguing that this isn't manageable. It is. I'm merely informing you that the simple addition of ALM, which is of course central to the new PBR viewers, does result in a hit, and depending upon context, a significant one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, Thecla said: This is the heart of the matter. But the OP and others "in the same boat" are loose with their insults of LL and dismissive of their decisions. It's one thing to say "Gosh this sucks, it's making it much harder to enjoy SL", and another thing to accuse LL of being arrogant and uncaring, and forecasting certain doom for them because they have left part of their user base behind. They simply could have not forced the upgrade and given residents a choice and let them eventually upgrade the machine or video card when the inworld experience degraded to a point were the resident became self motivated to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriannaLovey Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: They simply could have not forced the upgrade and given residents a choice and let them eventually upgrade the machine or video card when the inworld experience degraded to a point were the resident became self motivated to do so. I would say that it would have been too hard to keep both rendering engines, but one guy already managed to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Devin Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 LL should be trying to get New Users in here That's impossible now. New user goes here: https://secondlife.com/support/downloads/ Downloads this Alpha at best Viewer and his/her user experience is super low fps, nothing loads, everything lags and then they crash. How you suppose to get new users? Maybe the new user has a High End Machine ...crashes a little less. The current users will be phased out, their hardware simply can not run this viewer. With pbr setting off you lose 60-70% fps vs current 6x build. With pbr setting on you lose 90% of your fps. Some say they are ok with it. Ok sure you're ok, you don't mind losing 90% fps. But you probably also stand in the middle of nowhere you yourself and you. This is a Social Gaming Platform - Lots of users gathered in a place 10-20-30 and for me 70-80 cause I do a lot of Live Music and DJ Events. They need to immediately remove this from the main download page!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 6 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said: I would say that it would have been too hard to keep both rendering engines, but one guy already managed to do it. Or allowed the download of older pre PBR releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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