Alwin Alcott Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 19 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: you wouldn't need to repeat yourself mirror needed? 20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: You keep telling people that. because it's true, and people keep denying it. We áll here, and inworld, agreed to the TOS. You can't deny that. You also clicked "I Agree" 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: I suggest the new peeps use this argument, and inform LL that their information methods to all members really sucks. That last nobody will fight against, it's one of the worst ways i ever seen online how to force to agree to rules, or loose everything. But having no time to read it, is no excuse for accepting it and see later what it is. You had the choice to wait till you had time. After accepting, there's no logical reason to to ask again , you already did. It would be a better customer service to announce the new rules and accept those within two weeks (as example) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 The problem for us child avatars, and yes, it is a problem for us, is that public nudity is allowed on M sims for adult avatars. Wearing the skimpiest clothing possible with everything hanging out is already more than what is required for M sims. My biggest issue is inappropriate attire in General sims. However, again, there is no dress code. So long as everything is covered then you meet the rules. An adult could wear a string bikini and still technically be within the rules, if not the spirit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlshayne Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) Not to be rude, but if you want to talk about the new TOS, we got all of these on just the first 3 pages. https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/512216-lets-hear-from-the-adult-region-owners-on-how-the-new-tos-change-will-affect-your-land/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511857-will-the-new-tos-on-child-avatars-ensnare-short-adults/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511914-possibly-changing-your-region-to-adult-due-to-tos/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/512162-so-i-looked-up-the-new-tos/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511834-modesty-patch-discussion/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/512108-do-people-wearing-obvious-adult-avatars-also-get-in-trouble-if-being-in-an-adult-venue-with-people-in-avatars-deemed-to-be-under-18-by-linden-lab/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/512017-content-creators-for-child-bodies/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511889-lindens-statements-from-governance-meeting/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511951-animesh-child-avatars/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511731-the-new-tos-and-something-i-dont-think-was-taken-into-consideration-by-ll/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/511871-discuss-or-comments-about-child-adult-cant-tell-thread/ https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/512251-community-roundtable-may-20-2024/ And this is far, far from an exhaustive list... I just kinda got tired of compiling threads. Edited May 22 by stlshayne 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, brodiac90 said: The problem for us child avatars, and yes, it is a problem for us, is that public nudity is allowed on M sims for adult avatars. Wearing the skimpiest clothing possible with everything hanging out is already more than what is required for M sims. Why is that a problem, if it is perfectly allowed? Because you don't like it? Because you don't want to see it or be around it? I'm confused by the issue here, sorry! On the surface, it seems a little like going to a "strip club" and saying, "I have a problem with strip clubs". In that analogy, consider "all of Mature" land a big "strip club"; nobody forces you to go there, do they? The reason I ask is, by phrasing your statement as, "I have a problem with..", most people use this type of statement when they want to change something. Perhaps a more granular ratings system will help? Edited to add: I used "Mature" when I should have used "Moderate". Brain fart! I guess if the "Rating" was actually called "Mature", then my general reasoning makes more sense. Since it is "Moderate", then people can overlay more easily their interpretations of "what 'moderate' should be like". Edited May 22 by Love Zhaoying 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Tiny Toxic Terror tot parade Don't know if I entirely agree with the sentiment, but that phrase just made me almost snort my morning coffee over the keyboard! My brain's having a field day picturing that parade right now (and they are clothed, just for the record!) I wish I was an artist; I would draw it for you. 4 hours ago, miranda Sapphire said: Most of us came from horrible childhoods and know what it's like to be mistreated, treated like outcasts, abused, and the list goes on Yes... try growing up as an undiagnosed autistic, with religiously fanatic (and outright wrong and stupid) parents, and living in a very rough neighbourhood where it was almost kill or be killed and attending schools with the same type of kids and teachers armed with canes, when you didn't even understand what was going on (literally). I could write you a book on all the ways it was awful and unfair. I wouldn't even say I had a childhood; I have almost no memory of most of it pre-about-15 partly because I've blocked it out so much. It was horrendous, and continued that way into adulthood still as an undiagnosed autistic with no clue what was going on. (I'm sure there are those who would envy my childhood, even so, I'm not trying to make it a competition). My level of bitterness over it, if I let my mind go there, knows no bounds. But you know what...? That's not anyone here's fault and no-one owes me anything; least of all a privately owned company. Life isn't fair; and there are far too many people in the world who make sure it never will be in one way or another. Some of those are the ones who think they are 'entitled' to something, just because. It's a fact of life that countries make laws that make certain things illegal, and sometimes they get it right (if only by chance). This is one of them. A company providing a platform where illegal things can happen needs to protect itself, and everyone else on it, as best it can. That makes things 'unfair' for the rest of us, and as much as I abhor unfairness and wish we could just eradicate (and I really would!) those who are the root causes of unfairness, the reality is we can't. Not easily, not quickly, and not with 100% effectiveness even in a contained environment like SL. I'm the first to argue against 'group' punishments rather than punishing the actual wrongdoers. I've seen far too much of that in life from employers and governments (and sellers on SL who use it as one excuse for no-mod perms, but that's another thread). I hate it and it has cost me a job on one occasion. In this case though, LL has no requirement to allow adults to play as children, or as anything else. Imposing restrictions on what we do here is the only reasonable way to comply with those laws, or at least look like they are trying. It's not a punishment just because we've been allowed to do things less restricted in the past, and are now having to have restrictions placed on what we do on a privately owned platform that has to be seen to be complying with laws. We could argue all day long about whether LL should have done something different, sooner, to address the problem but that's largely pointless. We are where we are. In RL I've been to to nude beaches and used shared bathing and sauna facilities (not often; this is the UK and it's mostly far too cold). I think all the 'thing' around nudity and it being wrong to show too much flesh and certain parts is a bit silly, in itself. I always have, even when I was a kid (maybe it's because my autistic brain works differently; I don't know). In SL though, when it comes to children and given the necessary laws in many countries... I think what's happening is as reasonable as it practically can be, and a minimum of what LL could do. The change potentially hurts those who like to play arguably 'young-looking' adults far more than it hurts child avatars. I really hope LL does use it's common sense when dealing with ARs in such instances. Edited May 22 by Rick Nightingale typo corrections only 11 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 2 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said: 5 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Tiny Toxic Terror tot parade Don't know if I entirely agree with the sentiment, but that phrase just made me almost snort my morning coffee over the keyboard! My brain's having a field day picturing that parade right now (and they are clothed, just for the record!) I wish I was an artist; I would draw it for you. It makes me hungry for "tater tots"! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 4 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said: Life isn't fair; and there are far too many people in the world who make sure it never will be in one way or another. Some of those are the ones who think they are 'entitled' to something, just because. Thank you!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: "tater tots"! Oh don't... now I'm picturing that and my jaw hurts from laughing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: You keep telling people that. If you weren't wrong, you wouldn't need to repeat yourself, or even mention it. But here we are. And why are you repeating yourself in every thread about this subject that pops up? eh.... you get the picture. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) If you go to a library there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. If you go to a cinema there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. If you go to a park there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. If you use public transportation there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. If you go to school there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. Do I need to make this list longer before you get it? Okay one more: If you use Second Life there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. But let's make 434 new threads about the same subject first. These days the forums feel like discussing with preteens at times. Sigh. Edited May 22 by Sid Nagy 12 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 38 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: 2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said: You keep telling people that. If you weren't wrong, you wouldn't need to repeat yourself, or even mention it. But here we are. And why are you repeating yourself in every thread about this subject that pops up? eh.... you get the picture. I think they both like using immature arguments, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 26 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Okay one more: If you use Second Life there are rules that THEY have set up and we as consumers have to live with them. But let's make 434 new threads about the same subject first. These days the forums feel like discussing with preteens at times. Sigh. "But it's NOT FAIR". Sid, are people in YOUR country also so "entitled" as those who use the "not fair" argument? I thought maybe it's a cultural thing. Or, possibly Second Life provides a platform where people feel safe to complain, no matter how silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 25 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Second Life provides a platform where people feel safe to complain, no matter how silly. I think social media and the Internet as a whole encourages it! Literally... controversy creates traffic creates advertising revenue. Internet 101. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 minute ago, Rick Nightingale said: 28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Second Life provides a platform where people feel safe to complain, no matter how silly. I think social media and the Internet as a whole encourages it! Literally... controversy creates traffic creates advertising revenue. Internet 101. I start to think one of LL's original mistakes is using the phrase, "Your World, Your Imagination". It implies "no rules, I can do whatever I want" and gives people something to point at whenever a rules comes up they do not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 8 hours ago, miranda Sapphire said: If LL is going to make us wear modesty layers then why not start enforcing some of it on you adults? Just tonight I went to a well known full perm mesh store that was on a moderate sim and there was a girl standing there with ALL her bits showing. I mean bits from A-Z. Is that fair to us kids that we have to keep covered yet nasty people like that can parade around on sims we ARE allowed on dressed with everything showing? No it's not right; Nope, cause everyone should be actual adults. I think as an adult you can see some bits and not freak out. You are not an actual child. If you don't get it by now why they are requiring it now then you never will. 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, brodiac90 said: The problem for us child avatars, and yes, it is a problem for us, is that public nudity is allowed on M sims for adult avatars. Wearing the skimpiest clothing possible with everything hanging out is already more than what is required for M sims. My biggest issue is inappropriate attire in General sims. However, again, there is no dress code. So long as everything is covered then you meet the rules. An adult could wear a string bikini and still technically be within the rules, if not the spirit. A string bikini is not naked. The only solution I have now is to also ban child avatars from M rated sims too. You can go in an adult avatar to shop but other than that you need to stay on G rated land. Perfect solution for everyone since Child avatars for some reason can't seem to stay away from naked avatars on M rated land, even though I've rarely seen them. WHERE are all these naked avatars all the Child avatars are seeing. Please point it out to me cause I'd like to see some too! Edit: also shame on the region owners for allowing naked avatars and Child avatars entry at the same time. Edited May 22 by Kathlen Onyx 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: everyone gets the TOS pop up, so everyone that agrees has read it. Didn't? Own choice to get in trouble. I actually scrolled all the way down to the bottom this time when i logged an alt in. There are like six links you gotta click to read everything. Ummm no thanks, check I Agree and log in 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I actually scrolled all the way down to the bottom this time when i logged an alt in. There are like six links you gotta click to read everything. Ummm no thanks, check I Agree and log in 😂 So you basically can't follow any rules that are bothersome? I sure bet you'd read that "You ARE Banned" email though huh? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Ummm no thanks, check I Agree and log in It's much quicker just to come here to the forum so see if we need to know about anything 👍 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 What i hate is when LL changes the rules but only posts the change in the Wiki. Like wtf, I’m supposed to read the entire wiki every day to make sure im not gonna be breaking a new secret rule change? And yes, im still harping on about that. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 13 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: A string bikini is not naked. Last summer, I was in Manchester during "Pride Weekend", and I saw a woman walking down a street, walking away from the festival, wearing a fishnet top over two crosses made of electrical tape. Here in England, that would be regarded by many as "Club Wear". But... In Buttwipe, Wisconsin, the THREE members of the "Buttwipe, WN Committee of Fun Hating Puritan Killjoy Concerned Vigilante Citizen Crusader Moral Moronity Bigot Force For the Enforcement Of Ankle Length Personal Hessian Body Tents Of Spiritual Cleanliness In The Name Of Our Lardy Flavour, Cheesus Toast" would describe that as "street corner hooker wear" and start screaming that the police department be issued with Official Holy Flamethrowers to deal with the "obscenity". And then all THREE of them will log in here, and complain that "filthy street corner hooker avatars" are allowed to buy a string bikini. 2 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 4 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: So you basically can't follow any rules that are bothersome? I sure bet you'd read that "You ARE Banned" email though huh? Interestingly, i got a suspension e-mail one time that gave me a zero day suspension. I was like wtf, this e-mail has got to be spoofed, because i know i didn’t break the rule they were accusing me of breaking, but I went to the wiki, and yes, they changed the rule, the exact same day I got the notification. I actually felt honored, they changed the rule just for me 😂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 35 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said: It's much quicker just to come here to the forum so see if we need to know about anything 👍 There's an idea - never, ever log into Second Life ("in world") without checking the Forum first to make sure there are no new "deal breaker" changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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