Sadvhi Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I'm not a legal expert but it seems like the same regulations that govern AI art should also apply content creation in SL. Is it legal to create digital art and videos that depict children in violent scenarios using programs such as Sora and Midjourney? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 As I said earlier with @Kathlen Onyx, there is no way LL is going to change the moderate rating so it can incude extreme forms of graphic violence. The fact they think child avatars shouldn't be on adult rated sims tells you all you need to know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 37 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said: These are characters from the game "Grounded" and it's a lot more violent then most SL violence (though still cartoony), and it's rated pegi-12. Think moderate sims will be fine with violence. That looks like any group of child avatars in SL. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 4 minutes ago, Sadvhi said: 'm not a legal expert but it seems like the same regulations that govern AI art should also apply content creation in SL You've also not thought this though ,, AI art can't be copyrighted. 5 minutes ago, Sadvhi said: Is it legal to create digital art and videos that depict children in violent scenarios using programs such as Sora and Midjourney? Yes, it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 5 minutes ago, Sadvhi said: I'm not a legal expert but it seems like the same regulations that govern AI art should also apply content creation in SL. Is it legal to create digital art and videos that depict children in violent scenarios using programs such as Sora and Midjourney? Well, that is the issue. There are no regulations that indicate what can be depicted in art like this. Nor should there ever be. Art should never be regulated except in a very few narrow exceptions. If I have to explain those exceptions to anyone, then you need to look at your moral compass. As it is, I can bring up Comfyui, set up batch run, and make pictures of kids getting blown to pieces all day and it is not illegal. An nor should it be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnilWay SpiritWeaver Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) Quote Question: Will you consider removing the back part of the modesty layer for female presenting child avatars? Keira Linden - Quote [14:34] Keira Linden: One of the biggest changes and points of concern is around the requirement of modesty layers on child avatars, so we have added some images to the FAQ to demonstrate what we are looking for there. I have seen the requests on the forums to have the back of the modesty layer for female avatars be optional, and that makes perfect sense to me. I need a little bit of time to propose and get approvals for that clarification to the policy itself and once I have what I need I can update the FAQ with that new guidance. Is there something special about female child avatars that means showing bare butts should be OK for them? Or was the meant to be 'upper back' as in a 'bra strap' not required? Edited May 11 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said: I really don't care for realistic violent games, so I don't really understand the appeal. At the same time, I agree with @Leslie Trihey in that SL games, even the really violent ones are little more than cartoon violence. An given the nature of SL limited graphics and subtility as a game platform. I'm probably neutral on this issue at best. I don't understand the appeal but I'm not going to protest if they allowed it. On the other hand. We all have to admit that SL is a poor choice for those types of games. The resources required of a computer to run SL at that level of graphics details is no small order. I feel that is you must have graphics of that level you would be better off seeking platforms outside of SL for that reason. My personal stance is in regards to 'combat' / violence and child avatars (not teens) is this: Roleplaying a sibling squabble with fighting - okay Playing games like cops and robbers with toys - okay Playing knights with wooden swords / sticks - okay Laser tag /paintballing - okay RPing childhood accidents (broken bones etc) - okay Taking part in sports which use weapons (think fencing / martial arts / clay pigeon shooting - RL kids do these so - okay Taking part in sports like wrestling and boxing etc or other contact games - okay. Actively participating in battlers or wars as a combatant - I can see how in some RP situations it could enhance the RP if the adults were fighting to protect the children who were hiding somewhere. RPing being abducted / kidnapped - no Any form of violence directed at a child by an adult, even spanking - no. I know someone will say that spanking is just corporal punishment, but in SL it really does leave too much open to interpreation and it can easily be misconstrued as something more sinister. Not even worth going there. Torture, graphic violence, cannibalism etc - no no no. Edited May 11 by brodiac90 specified list is for young children and not teens. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 2 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said: Is there something special about female child avatars that means showing bare butts should be OK for them? Or was the meant to be 'upper back' as in a 'bra strap' not required? We were discussing the back of the female chest modesty layer. Surely that was obvious? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 8 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: We were discussing the back of the female chest modesty layer. Surely that was obvious? TBH, I read the quote they posted (possibly missing some context), and could see the source of confusion, but would not have necessarily made the same assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 (edited) 15 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: My personal stance is in regards to 'combat' / violence and child avatars is this: RPing being abducted / kidnapped - no Can you explain this one a little bit more in detail? The others I can understand but this one has me scratching my head. Children's literature is filled with this exact topic. It's even a main theme in some Disney Movies. Peter Pan is a good example. There is also The Call of the Wild by Jack London. To me, this eliminates many great roleplaying adventures. If it details graphic torcher and violence then maybe but not just abduction and kidnapping. 💖Madi Quotes💖 Well, that is weird even by SL standards. Edited May 11 by Madi Melodious 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, Leslie Trihey said: Eh, back in the day I used to frequent this combat sim called "Carnage island" as a kid avatar. Nobody cared. Only complaint I ever really got is that I was to small to hit/see. 😛 ^ This is why some combat players want to fight as kids or other small avatars. Others might just prefer to stay as their primary or favorite character. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silachan Rain Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 When it comes to violence with kid avatars, I think people also forget that "kid avatars' Include those who are roleplaying as 16 or 17 too. Do I think that pre-teens and younger should be involved in any sort of violent/fighting roleplay? No, not really. But to say someone writing a teenager shouldn't be allowed to participate in it either feels a little restrictive, and most roleplay sims have their own rules regarding what teens can or can't participate in violence-wise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said: Can you explain this one a little bit more in detail? The others I can understand but this one has me scratching my head. Children's literature is filled with this exact topic. It's even a main theme in some Disney Movies. Peter Pan is a good example. There is also The Call of the Wild by Jack London. To me, this eliminates many great roleplaying adventures. If it details graphic torcher and violence then maybe but not just abduction and kidnapping. It's just my personal feeling. Probably doesn't help that I watched the The Black Phone recently and the adbudction scene in that movie is horrendous. I suppose if you had a kid tied up with rope (arms behind back like movies) and nothing else happened, that may be acceptable. It just the whole why it's being done and where it could lead to that has me very uneasy. The Black Phone Abuduction scene - contains spoilers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 17 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: My personal stance is in regards to 'combat' / violence and child avatars is this: Is some of your list ok for "teen" avatars? Some of the great modern and classic fiction involves youth being "at serious risk", then becoming heroes (or even victims) so that the (often young) reader may feel empathy for their struggle and (hopefully) victory. Just 2 examples: - Hansel and Gretel were destined to be eaten by the witch (if I have my story straight) - "Ender's Game" (I'm not a fan) in its novel form had a cruel youth (who did not blink at causing pain to others) ultimately participate in battles himself At the same time, I've seen fiction where broken bones were a fetish (manga) or led to a character's death ("A Separate Peace", which was required reading at my school). But that's ok on your personal list. So, while obviously we all have our opinions, I see examples on both sides where removing those "violent" aspects from stories would change the literature about and available to our youth. Conversely, including certain "violent" aspects may need to include recognition that the same "violence" (accidental or otherwise) can be VERY dark. Guess I'm with @Madi Melodious on this one. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: It's just my personal feeling. That is perfectly acceptable. I personally don't care for or watch movies where kids get killed in certain manners. Some people consider Pans Labyrinth a master piece. I call it garbage because of the way it ends. Just my option as tastes may vary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 5 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Probably doesn't help that I watched the The Black Phone recently and the adbudction scene in that movie is horrendous. I suppose if you had a kid tied up with rope (arms behind back like movies) and nothing else happened, that may be acceptable. It just the whole why it's being done and where it could lead to that has me very uneasy. That's the point of "horror" and horror with children / youth.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Is some of your list ok for "teen" avatars? Some of the great modern and classic fiction involves youth being "at serious risk", then becoming heroes (or even victims) so that the (often young) reader may feel empathy for their struggle and (hopefully) victory. Just 2 examples: - Hansel and Gretel were destined to be eaten by the witch (if I have my story straight) - "Ender's Game" (I'm not a fan) in its novel form had a cruel youth (who did not blink at causing pain to others) ultimately participate in battles himself At the same time, I've seen fiction where broken bones were a fetish (manga) or led to a character's death ("A Separate Peace", which was required reading at my school). But that's ok on your personal list. So, while obviously we all have our opinions, I see examples on both sides where removing those "violent" aspects from stories would change the literature about and available to our youth. Conversely, including certain "violent" aspects may need to include recognition that the same "violence" (accidental or otherwise) can be VERY dark. Guess I'm with @Madi Melodious on this one. I think I had more younger kids in mind with my list. I suppose there could be one made for teen avatars. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, brodiac90 said: I think I had more younger kids in mind with my list. I suppose there could be one made for teen avatars. Always good to specify, I guessed since you said "child", but in literature it's somewhat fluid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: That's the point of "horror" and horror with children / youth.. What about roleplaying a scene such as this one? Could this be done on a Moderate region with a child avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: What about roleplaying a scene such as this one? Could this be done on a Moderate region with a child avatar? TBH, I don't necessarily support RolePlay of hardcore horror with children / teens "at all"; I was merely replying to bro' that his response to horror was not unexpected. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silachan Rain Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Yeah kind of confused how horror started becoming the baseline example for something acceptable or not, when horror is designed to push the limits of what's ethical and comfortable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 5 minutes ago, Silachan Rain said: Yeah kind of confused how horror started becoming the baseline example for something acceptable or not, when horror is designed to push the limits of what's ethical and comfortable. I think it was an offshoot of the "violence" discussion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 (edited) Bringing the topic back to gender and non binary avatars, what modesty layers do you think the following three avatars would need under the policy, particularly the middle one? Also If you disagree with the current policy then state what you think they should be as well. Edited May 11 by brodiac90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Bringing the topic back to gender and non binary avatars, what modesty layers do you think the following three avatars would need under the policy, particularly the middle one? Also If you disagree with the current policy then state what you think they should be as well. Underpants. As would be normal and age appropriate. Some might wear a vest rather than wander about topless, but that is personal / parental choice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 There is no law against virtual depictions of children being involved in violent combat. Equating combat to the ban on AP is kind of pointless because the legality of AP is at the root of the whole discussion. Would I want to see cartoon children getting blown up? Not especially but there's nothing illegal about it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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