So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Aya Sweetheart]

29 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Ok. well we are not supposed to talk about banned accounts but all that you just typed is wrong and not against the rules. So....

The point is about splitting accounts being safer, not about the person who got suspended a day a couple years ago...

Whoever may read this, if you want to try a child avatar, be safe and do it on an account that is completely PG, its safer from messing up like joining a new sex group and forgetting to hide it.

Yes it is against the rules to be using a child avatar and being involved or seen as promoting sexual activities, which would include what is seen in your profile.  Maybe you misunderstand when I say "adult" group.. I mean highly sexual and vulgar group names that are clearly 100% about sex.  Seeing those in a profile of a child avatar is against the rules, as it should be.  You think its against the rules to be nude or near sexual things, but its ok to have picks of sex places or groups showing in your profile of sex places?

You may want to look at bullet point 2 and 3 here, and the last one in the second section.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

Edited May 8 by Aya Sweetheart

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

You say subjective, but we have an objective definition:

Oh, trying again for the "Verbose Pseudo-Intellectual Pedant of the Day" award again I see.

 

6 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

How are these words subjective, not agreed upon, and why would LL have to define it in their TOS, since the words are already defined. Not busting your *****s, you're just disappointing me with this.

All use of words is subjective.

Let's take your "Oh So Not Helpful" dictionary definition.. According to the TWO ( yes that means it's already subjective as you get to CHOOSE which usage you meant, the word can refer equally to calling a ship "she" or dressing a 12 yr old in a stripper thong.

 

6 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

For some to gaslight me and others on these words and others is really mind-snapping, and perhaps that is part of their game. That I and others are the crazy ones...

No comment.

 

Now if you've finished trying to win "Verbose Pseudo0-Intellectual Pedant of the Day", can we abandon advanced lessons in not using English, and get back to the purge on AR Clickbait?

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Safer.

Can we just linger on that for a moment.

We're talking about what's safer.

Things are feeling pretty adversarial and strained in the relationship with LL if safety and protecting ones-self from governance is how things are going.

That's a huge problem, and not one that's we can solve, or will just go away on its own.

If the state of our virtual nation is "you don't have to fear the cops if you've done nothing wrong", things are really bad.

I hesitated in posting this .. because doing so feels unsafe.

 

 

 

Edited May 8 by Coffee Pancake

[Persephone Emerald]

32 minutes ago, Aya Sweetheart said:

The point is about splitting accounts being safer, not about the person who got suspended a day a couple years ago...

Whoever may read this, if you want to try a child avatar, be safe and do it on an account that is completely PG, its safer from messing up like joining a new sex group and forgetting to hide it.

Yes it is against the rules to be using a child avatar and being involved or seen as promoting sexual activities, which would include what is seen in your profile.  Maybe you misunderstand when I say "adult" group.. I mean highly sexual and vulgar group names that are clearly 100% about sex.  Seeing those in a profile of a child avatar is against the rules, as it should be.  You think its against the rules to be nude or near sexual things, but its ok to have picks of sex places or groups showing in your profile of sex places?

You may want to look at bullet point 2 and 3 here, and the last one in the second section.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

You could also hide your Adult groups.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

You could also hide your Adult groups.

This hides groups even if the person looking is in the same group, however doesn't stop anyone from finding you in a group.

[Persephone Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This hides groups even if the person looking is in the same group, however doesn't stop anyone from finding you in a group.

I think this issue of separating interests or personas depends on how active someone is within these groups. I have a few Adult groups that I'm not very active in and I'm not involved in playing a child avatar, so I can't speak from the perspective of someone who does. For someone whose Adult groups might create a problem for them, keeping those on a separate account would be a good idea.

Edited May 8 by Persephone Emerald
I thought about it & changed my response

[Coffee Pancake]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Yeah, but are they going to look in every Adult group to try to find someone just because they're selling something on MP? 

That data is being scraped by bots into external databases. It is only a matter of time before someone decides to put it to some use, makes a searchable index, uses it to target avatars in mutually exclusive groups (eg, something kids & something not) etc etc.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Governance has stated they send warning letters and try to reeducate first. Doesn't sound like that happened which is telling, especially after the recent ToS update and the Faq stating glowingly how the Governance team will be doing better in future,

Here in the UK, if you walk into a newsagents and shoplift a $1 candy bar, and it's a first offence, the cops might let you off with a "caution", a verbal warning, 

If you blow the shopkeeper in half with a sawn off shotgun, they don't give you a warning. You get arrested tried and sent to jail.

 

Don't confuse "we send warnings for minor offences" with "why wasn't there a warning for a major offence, they lied about the warnings".

You might think it makes for hard hitting "Anti-Tyranny" propaganda, but it's just inane rambling that nobody takes seriously.

[Kathlen Onyx]

13 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That data is being scraped by bots into external databases. It is only a matter of time before someone decides to put it to some use, makes a searchable index, uses it to target avatars in mutually exclusive groups (eg, something kids & something not) etc etc.

Now you are just causing paranoia and fearmongering. If LL wanted to get rid of Child avi's they certainly wouldn't do it this way. They'd just ban them all outright.

Let's tell them they can just switch to a adult avatar if they want to go to A rated land and then BAM, they have stuff about being a child in their profile. That's when we git em'!

Edited May 8 by Kathlen Onyx

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 hours ago, Madi Melodious said:

How does this tos affect a chid avatar listing things on the market place?  I'm thinking of doing some art online, nothing adult themed, but there might be some moderate content.  The tos covers items directed towards child avatars but nothing sold by said avatars.

Hahahahaha.

AR Clickbaits are not permitted near certain types of content, at all, ever.

AR Clickbait makes a mesh "apple pie" and uploads to the MP, not a problem.

AR Clickbait makes "The Insertinator 9000 Automatical Steam Powered Lewdness Engine for discerning Ladies and Gentlemen, rated XXX Hawt", and uploads it to the MP, well, just building the thing means being NEAR it, and probably testing it, so probably kiss you store and your account goodbye!

 

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Hahahahaha.

AR Clickbaits are not permitted near certain types of content, at all, ever.

AR Clickbait makes a mesh "apple pie" and uploads to the MP, not a problem.

AR Clickbait makes "The Insertinator 9000 Automatical Steam Powered Lewdness Engine for discerning Ladies and Gentlemen, rated XXX Hawt", and uploads it to the MP, well, just building the thing means being NEAR it, and probably testing it, so probably kiss you store and your account goodbye!

 

 

What if AR Clickbait *:) your words* did all this while being an adult avatar? or a dog?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

What if AR Clickbait *:) your words* did all this while being an adult avatar? or a dog?

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Also, check back over the last233 pages and see how many AR Clickbait have screamed "I would rather die than wear an adult avatar!", including a teenage slumlord, who objected to having to change to collect rent from their A rated properties, and the "immersion" fanatics.

Even if they use an "adult alt" to actually test the thing, they will be standing nearby in their Clickbait, watching their alt get lewded by the contraption, and that's an automatic ToS Violation.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Also, check back over the last233 pages and see how many AR Clickbait have screamed "I would rather die than wear an adult avatar!", including a teenage slumlord, who objected to having to change to collect rent from their A rated properties, and the "immersion" fanatics.

Even if they use an "adult alt" to actually test the thing, they will be standing nearby in their Clickbait, watching their alt get lewded by the contraption, and that's an automatic ToS Violation.

 

OH I missed that post.  Interesting though since a child would never be collecting rent because well....they are children.

Well, I give up. We should just ban all child avatars and keep only animesh ones.

[Aya Sweetheart]

27 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Now you are just causing paranoia and fearmongering. If LL wanted to get rid of Child avi's they certainly wouldn't do it this way. They'd just ban them all outright.

Let's tell them they can just switch to a adult avatar if they want to go to A rated land and then BAM, they have stuff about being a child in their profile. That's when we git em'!

That is nothing to do with LL.  Third parties make bot networks and collect data tracking everyone and public groups over years... can pull up avatars and almost every group they have ever been in, and much more... This data can be (and has been) weaponized against people...

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

We should just ban all child avatars

This thread starting to degrade my memory through sheer overload but I'm pretty sure I sad exactly that a couple of hundred pages ago.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 minutes ago, Aya Sweetheart said:

That is nothing to do with LL.  Third parties make bot networks and collect data tracking everyone and public groups over years... can pull up avatars and almost every group they have ever been in, and much more... This data can be (and has been) weaponized against people...

So with that in mind why in the world would you EVER open yourself up for that scrutiny? Wouldn't you rather just enjoy SL as an adult?  I know that if I had a fear of being banned every time I logged into a platform I'd find somewhere else to be. 

BTW, this is a serious question. 

[Dorientje Woller]

Do you guys ever sleep?

[Aya Sweetheart]

9 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

So with that in mind why in the world would you EVER open yourself up for that scrutiny? Wouldn't you rather just enjoy SL as an adult?  I know that if I had a fear of being banned every time I logged into a platform I'd find somewhere else to be. 

BTW, this is a serious question. 

I don't know why people play as kids... I'd never want to be a kid again... but I think its just fine if they want to.  There are a lot of things people do that I don't like or want to do, but everyone is different.  Its just there was some disagreement if it mattered if you ran dedicated child avatar accounts or not.  I just tried in a few posts to point out its easy to make some small mistake, even if you have no ill intent, so its safer to run a dedicated account for that.

I only play as an adult and all my depravity is no secret to anyone 🤣

[Leslie Trihey]

24 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

This thread starting to degrade my memory through sheer overload but I'm pretty sure I sad exactly that a couple of hundred pages ago.

 

For a self proclaimed goth you sure like conformity and attacks on free expression.

May I suggest a new slogan to go along with your idea. "Second life: Our world, your restricted imagination."

Edited May 8 by Leslie Trihey

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I see we've reached the "Why are SL kids?" stage of the discussion.

[Leslie Trihey]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I see we've reached the "Why are SL kids?" stage of the discussion.

Thus, adding to the grain chain.. of life.

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

Can we have an age limit for *****?  I don't want to see two 90 year olds having that kind of fun.  They'll break a hip!  We need to protect the elderly, with mandatory underwear.

[Aya Sweetheart]

2 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

Can we have an age limit for *****?  I don't want to see two 90 year olds having that kind of fun.  They'll break a hip!  We need to protect the elderly, with mandatory underwear.

Yeah... 2 would be bad, but I never been with anyone that old that broke a hip... 😉

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

Also... Mandatory Underwear would be a great name for a rock band.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

13 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

For a self proclaimed goth you sure like conformity and attacks on free expression.

This isn't about "conformity" or "free expression".

Let's get somethings perfectly clear here.

 

First Life:

A 6'6" guy with street gang tattoos drags a screaming 6 year olds into a shack, rips their clothes off, and breaks the law.

The 6 yr old is a VICTIM.

 

Second Life:

Adult #1 PRETENDING to be a street gang thug, sends Adult #2 PRETENDING to be a 6 yr old a TP invite to their MultiScene Sex Skybox over a rented G rated  1024 parcel.

Adult #2 PRETENDING to be a 6 yr old accepts the Tp offer.

Adult #1 types "/me rips your clothes off"

Adult #2 Rremovves their OWN clothes.

Illegal; tuff happenss.

 

Adult #2 PRETENDING to be a 6 yr old iss NOT a "victim" they are a "PARTICIPANT"

 

So that eliminates about 25% of the Pro Clickbait arguments for ignoring the new ToS right there.

 

"But... But... That's not me! Why don't they go after the real culprits?"

How? How do you find them without putting a Governance employee in every skybox?

If people don't SSEE it, they can't ARR it, and it won't get caught.

 

So plan B.

There's no practical way to stop people exchanging naughty IM's, but those are not visible and won't cause a media scandal anyway, so ignore that for now.

Visual activities how ever, will so let's eliminate those.

Now here's the question, do you BAN the 796,000 adults who present as adults to make sure you get rid of Participant Adult #1 in the crime scene above.

Or... Do you BAN 4000 AR Clickbait, to get rid of Participant Adult #2.?

 

Either will do, and losing 4000 clickbait and a couple of thousand clickbait accomplices, is less painful for the company than losing 796,000 customers.

 

So, who get thrown out of the boat to the sharks to stop it sinking? The AR Clickbait.

And LL KNOW that the action of Clickbait demanding M rated land be made G rated, and demanding nudity be banned on M rated land, and demanding that adult avatars have mandatory modesty patches, and demanding blah blah blah, in revenge for being the ones thrown out of the boat, will quickly erase any "empathy and compassion" for the clickbait.

 

So, let's clarify.

LL are banning you and your friends, but they are using a Zen-Ban, ban without banning.

They KNOW that 1 in 5 will try and comply, they KNOW that 3 in 5 will just sod off elsewhere, and they KNOW that 1 in 5 will turn "Tiny Terror Tots Against tyranny!", and openly violate the ToS, and get bans that the 796000 adults will approve of.

 

This was obvious last thursday when I read the new clauses.

I'm just shocked that so many haven't seen it yet.

 

The age of the SL Not-Child Avatar is OVER.