Jaylinbridges Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Your World. Your Imagination. Join Now Experience and create anything you can imagine. Play games with friends, role-play with vampires, shop for unique fashions and attend live music performances! That was SL in 2011 when the Linden Realms was announced. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today the slogan is Our World, Our Rules, and Imagination is for the developers only, who work outside of SL. What happened to the Residents? Pay your USD and shop til you drop. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Jaylinbridges said: Your World. Your Imagination. Join Now Experience and create anything you can imagine. Play games with friends, role-play with vampires, shop for unique fashions and attend live music performances! That was SL in 2011 when the Linden Realms was announced. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today the slogan is Our World, Our Rules, and Imagination is for the developers only, who work outside of SL. What happened to the Residents? Pay your USD and shop til you drop. According the ToS and RoC, upon you had to agree when creating your account. Afteral, LL is a private company and they dictate the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: Absolutely not. I can go and have done to head to the SL welcome area where I can see badly created adults fully nude, with all female and male appendages as the first thing a newcomer sees. There is not even an age check to enter SL. Can you imagine the uproar if an RL parent saw their kid logging into SL even into the G and moderate areas, to see all sorts of undress and vulgarity in front of them? Bad enough I am sure a good majority of adult people would not wish to see XXX rated material in places they do not expect to see it. They are NOT policing SL properly, I said ALL residents not just the bias that the chosen scapegoats are hot topics. There is much...much more!! How will those new players learn second life, in a new comer area, if they don't learn how to wear their avatars? Also, if you start IDing people that will only start to drive people off because a lot of people like to protect their information. Though there are some of us that have purchased Linden, you're advocating for the I.D. system that not only failed but You're asking for I.D, Name, Address, Passport, Social Security Numbers or Passport I.D. what will happen when someone Have all that information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: According the ToS and RoC, upon you had to agree when creating your account. Afteral, LL is a private company and they dictate the rules. Yes but that too is under duress, if you look carefully there is nowhere to complain even if you did not agree. They would tell you to go inworld and place an inworld report if there was. How can one disagree if they have to agree to a TOS to even get a complaint in. And indeed, people have rights to complain, why should they lose assets and money just because a company makes you sign it under a form of duress? Its totally contrary ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: How will those new players learn second life, in a new comer area, if they don't learn how to wear their avatars? Also, if you start IDing people that will only start to drive people off because a lot of people like to protect their information. Though there are some of us that have purchased Linden, you're advocating for the I.D. system that not only failed but You're asking for I.D, Name, Address, Passport, Social Security Numbers or Passport I.D. what will happen when someone Have all that information? *facepalm* You don't rezz nekid as newbie, the first time you log into SL. My base avatar looked like a bag of potatoes in a pink polkadot dress with a flexi skirt and something that you couldn't recognize as hair. Edited May 7 by Dorientje Woller 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Dorientje Woller said: *facepalm* You don't rezz nekid as newbie, the first time you log into SL. My base avatar looked like a bag of potatoes in a pink polkadot dress with a flexi shirt and something that you couldn't recognize as hair. I never said you rezzed naked. Just like you didn't read my last post, you didn't read what I was replying to. Just going to put you on ignore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: *facepalm* You don't rezz nekid as newbie, the first time you log into SL. My base avatar looked like a bag of potatoes in a pink polkadot dress with a flexi shirt and something that you couldn't recognize as hair. i even think some of the old starteravi's in that time actually had underpants on....i don't have it clear in mind anymore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: How will those new players learn second life, in a new comer area, if they don't learn how to wear their avatars? Also, if you start IDing people that will only start to drive people off because a lot of people like to protect their information. Though there are some of us that have purchased Linden, you're advocating for the I.D. system that not only failed but You're asking for I.D, Name, Address, Passport, Social Security Numbers or Passport I.D. what will happen when someone Have all that information? Ok lets take this each question steps at a time ... 1 - if you are new, and this person was not new, it was a 7 year old account... they had no clothes on but sure found the time to find a collar and fully genitaled (three times over) and head to a welcome area. I have the pictures to prove that too. 2 -LL have IDed people before, I myself have been asked by LL email to hand over my own information to take out money from my own stores (by email). It was highly irregular and not within normal protocol even when i had full payment on file, paying my way into a weekly membership tier and purchasing Lindens. I told them I was uncomfortable and questioned where was my personal data going. They could not even tell me, it was hand the info over in photo ID or your account will be closed. But yes, you are right to mention that. is why I say LL are not policing things properly and suiting themselves (and not working in expectations and protocol in the expected hosted countries). We have laws about these things. But that's not the first time LL have harvested peoples data, yet people are allowed to make free accounts and cause issues without much accountability ( lets talk more about harassment and no policing of this either ) Asking for data is not an issue, if there are legitimate companies keeping that. After all if your account is hacked, its a sure way of checking identities to get your stuff back. its accountability . But yes you are correct in that concern what do they do with these data. As I said LL have done this before, bad policing, no real across the board protocol and another example in imbalance in consumer expectations and law most possibly too. Edited May 7 by Grayson Blakewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Starberry Passion said: Just going to put you on ignore. don't.. big chance you'd be still reading the posts out of curiosity 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 11 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: Also, if you start IDing people that's not new, would be 3rd time they'd do that.. they háve already a lot of that info.. wast of time to ask it again from older accounts. If they don't have that info anymore i'd like to get explanation where it went... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 23 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Your World. Your Imagination. Join Now Experience and create anything you can imagine. Play games with friends, role-play with vampires, shop for unique fashions and attend live music performances! That was SL in 2011 when the Linden Realms was announced. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Today the slogan is Our World, Our Rules, and Imagination is for the developers only, who work outside of SL. What happened to the Residents? Pay your USD and shop til you drop. In a nutshell, nail on the head there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Grayson Blakewell said: Ok lets take thiseach question steps at a time ... 1 - if you are new, and this person was not new, it was a 7 year old account... they had no clothes on but sure found the time to find a collar and fully genitaled (three times over) and head to a welcome area. I have the pictures to prove that too. 2 -LL have IDed people before, I myself have been asked in and LL email to hand over my own information to take out money from my own stores. It was highly irregular and not within normal protocol even when i had full payment on file, paying my way into a weekly membership tier and purchasing Lindens. I asked even them I was uncomfortable and where was my personal data going. They could not even tell me, it was hand the info over or your account maybe closed. But yes, you are right to mention that. is why I say LL are not policing things properly and suiting themselves ( and not working in expectations and protocol in the expected hosted countries. We have laws about these things. But that's not the first time LL have harvested peoples data, yet people are allowed to make free accounts and cause issues without much accountability ( lets talk more about harassment and no policing of this either ) Asking for data is not an issue, if there are legitimate companies keeping that. After all if your account is hacked, its a sure way of checking identities to get your stuff back. its accountability . But yes you are correct in that concern what do they do with these data. As I said LL have done this before, bad policing, no real across the bord protocol and another example in imbalance in consumer expectations and law most possibly too. ~ You didn't say anything about 7 year old accounts when you said about this before You just said and I quote "I can go and have done to head to the SL welcome area where I can see badly created adults fully nude, with all female and male appendages as the first thing a newcomer sees." • If it's a 7 year old account, my guess is either they are returning and relearning second life, or They're trolls and trolls troll in every platform, rather we like it or not. They are very hard to deal with. Not to mention, there are VPNs, and there are Backdoors. Even if you were to implement something, someone can still, if skilled enough, get that information. They did it with several like Netflix, Sony, Crunchyroll for example, all experienced a data breach. I believe that Linden Labs are good as they are and they are regulating what they need to more, they censored child avatars and that is the first step to moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 We really don't want to go back to "Your World. Your Imagination." Perhaps people don't remember the heyday of that slogan, with all the skeevy "banks" and "stock markets" and rigged "casinos" that were the "imagination" of some exploiting a totally hands-off approach. Now, after many laws (many to do with laundering terrorist financing) it's a tighter ship. So maybe they're now responding (again) to laws about depiction of children. Or maybe not, but its fine with me if they're making changes perhaps solely for business advantage, even if it's more window-dressing than substance. I just wish the steps made practical sense and preferably didn't unnecessarily reduce the platform's value for a particular class of ToS-compliant customers. (But admittedly, I don't understand most of the posts on the past page or so. Much abstract whining accompanied by vigorous verbal hand-waving but no concrete suggestions I can find.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 ~ To me, If It's marketed as a child avatar, then it's a child avatar. That should be the line that is drawn. Market the body as child, then it is a child avatar even though people are going to tell me "Well, Maitreya can be made into a child avatar" It's marketed as an adult body. When you go to their store, you see the body on the wall and it's an adult body, It's not a child's body. Now some people are like "Well, Maitreya should have a modesty layer" I don't wear Maitreya but I don't think it is Maitreya's fault or responsibility to cover someone's butt because they made an adult body to represent a child avatar, when it's an adult body. Same with Legacy, Reborn, Kupra and several other adult bodies. Child avatars are bodies like: • Rebirth • TotsiTeen • Toddledoo • Tweenster • Bebe and bodies like that, why? because they are marketed as child bodies, child avatars. Except Rebirth which is a hybrid body but it has a child body in it, by label. Same with child head vs adult heads. If it's an adult head, it should be looked at as an adult head. If it's a child's head, it should be looked at as a child's head. You don't have to agree with it but that's my opinion, because if you're marketing something as something, going to take that at face value and see it as such. AK makes child heads and you can tell that they are heads for children. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted May 7 Moles Share Posted May 7 (edited) 4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said: we'r adults.. threats aren't given here. I'm not threatening anything or anyone. Normally we don't lock threads, but simply allow them to run their course. I'm just drawing attention to some of the circumstances in which we would lock a thread, one of which is that it goes completely off topic because people have run out of things to say. This is clearly an issue about which a lot of people have strong views and is clearly causing a good deal of concern for a particular group. Many of the people affected who aren't regular forum users may well find themselves here for the first time, because they've asked friends or inworld groups what these changes are all about and been told there's a thread about them in the forums. Please let's try to ensure that people who haven't been following this thread from the beginning don't come here to catch up, only to find it's degenerated into a load of off-topic chatter, memes and jokes. Edited May 7 by Quartz Mole 14 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: ~ You didn't say anything about 7 year old accounts when you said about this before You just said and I quote "I can go and have done to head to the SL welcome area where I can see badly created adults fully nude, with all female and male appendages as the first thing a newcomer sees." • If it's a 7 year old account, my guess is either they are returning and relearning second life, or They're trolls and trolls troll in every platform, rather we like it or not. They are very hard to deal with. Not to mention, there are VPNs, and there are Backdoors. Even if you were to implement something, someone can still, if skilled enough, get that information. They did it with several like Netflix, Sony, Crunchyroll for example, all experienced a data breach. I believe that Linden Labs are good as they are and they are regulating what they need to more, they censored child avatars and that is the first step to moving forward. I disagree respectfully, I do not feel they are policing the grid accurately at all and I have many stories to state and back that up. I have often stated that LL have one rule for themselves and one rule for its residents. This TOS move is another example to pacify the angry mob for another band-aid, before these same irritated residents find another set of people to complain about. That is the truth, that is the system. Ask yourself who is responsible for that article even, where are they? But the irony is.... if they had accountability!! If people wished to take that to civil court, as a means to sue them for stress, bringing on a decision that has hampered peoples rights to SLs own freedom that all residents enjoy, have now limited their accounts in many ways (over than the topic people bang on about) and the rest. Which is a very small percentage than most think but yeah, people like to blow things out of proportion unless its subject that forces them to legitimize themselves. Censorship is all well and good but they forget, (please this is only one example) where LL does NOT control its creators nor those residents who graciously supply SL with content and places to visit. People have lives, whatever people do to mend LLs needs is on goodwill. They know very little of its consumers, had they realized that people who buy skins do not buy them from kid creators, in fairness there are very little. If these people cannot adhere to these TOS rules through no fault of their own, what do they do? And indeed, these people have paid for items (the same as you do) Why (on principle not ones own feelings on this mess), should others be held to account and throw good money away (at a time where price of living is skyrocketed), to fulfill a whim that governance have made without wait for it... cared enough to discuss this or with thought with its own consumers !!. To find items that are not in keeping with what they have bought in good will and forced to downgrade. Those that have have families and responsibilities, have no time to create or amend new ones nor are they at liberty to do so. Linden Labs never even bothered the ginger, to go and confer and talk with these communities first. That again is just one pointer of other issues that will go down the line, to affect other people who are not even SL kids. Really, its a mess. My message to the LL CEO if he is reading this, is to spend the time to find the person responsible for this mess. That there is the priority and for LLs customers to see there is transparency to who is held accountable. Not a band aid kneejerk reaction to sedate angry and intolerant people, using a situation to hijack on bias to others. !! Edited May 7 by Grayson Blakewell 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said: Please let's try to ensure that people who haven't been following this thread from the beginning don't come here to catch up, only to find it's degenerated into a load of off-topic chatter, memes and jokes. It's a challenge for certain, as those new to the thread often innocently rehash either side of many arguments which feel "completed" long ago, meanwhile giving a platform to those who are unsatisfied. Thank you! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: I disagree respectfully, I do not feel they are policing the grid accurately at all and I have many stories to state and back that up. I have often stated that LL have one rule for themselves and one rule for its residents. This TOS move is another example to pacify the angry mob for another band-aid, before these same irritated residents find another set of people to complain about. That is the truth, that is the system. Ask yourself who is responsible for that article even, where are they? But the irony is.... if they had accountability!! If people wished to take that to civil court, as a means to sue them for stress, bringing on a decision that hampered have now limited their accounts in many ways (over than the topic people bang on about) and the rest. Which is a very small percentage than most think but yeah, people like to blow things out of proportion unless its subject that forces them to legitimize themselves. Censorship is all well and good but they forget, (please this is only one example) where LL does NOT control its creators nor those residents who graciously supply SL with content and places to visit. People have lives, whatever people do to mend LLs needs is on goodwill. They know very little of its consumers, had they realized that people who buy skins do not buy them from kid creators, in fairness there are very little. If these people cannot adhere to these TOS rules through no fault of thier own, what do they do? And indeed, these people have paid for items (the same as you do) Why (on principle not ones own feelings on this mess), should others be held to account and throw good money away (at a time where price of living is skyrocketed), to fulfill a whim that governance have made without wait for it... cared enough to discuss this or with thought with its own consumers !!. To find items that are not in keeping with what they have bought in good will and forced to downgrade. Those that they have have families and responsibilities and have no time to create or amend new ones. They never even bothered the ginger to go and confer and talk with these communities first. That again is just one pointer of other issues that will go down the line and affect other people who are not SL kids. Really, its a mess. My message to the LL CEO if he is reading this, is to spend the time to find the person responsible for this mess. That there is the priority and for LLs customers to see there is transparency to who is held accountable. Not a band aid kneejerk reaction to sedate angry and intolerant people, using a situation to hijack on bias to people. !! I've already said that I did not believe the blog from the Medium, because there was not a lot of evidence to back up what was said, outside of a bunch of store items and avatars just at a beach. I don't believe the allegations were real and I believe it was one big troll to get everyone upset and Linden Lab for some reason or another. Either they were trying to make LL lose Residents, get it shut down or thought it would make people quit. This is my opinion. But It got a lot of attention and probably overseas and because linden don't want to upset its partners, they are putting a censorship over child avatars. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 55 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: But... through this TOS move you have also just cut off a pile of people A very, very small pile. 56 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: who are mostly customers who not only pay into a system but also pay thousands of dollars into the financial coffers that keep LL in business And I can already tell, you're going to start some nonsense waffle about how only your tiny friends are paying customers, and the groups you despise are all "filthy free to play riff-raff" right? 58 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: if you treat them differently and give them a third of a service lower than a freeloader Oh look I was EXACTLY right. Congratulations you just shot your own worthless argument down in flames. 59 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: we need to talk about free accounts too and how that's being abused regarding trolls and resident abuses No, we don't. In your earlier head-up-own-rectum rant, you blathered about why the "gimps" were not using Zindra. and other A rated land. Three of my friends own private estate regions, and not those "homestead" ones that "anti free-2-play" types like to boast about. Another friend owns a full mainland region on Zindra, and almost 30 Horizons parcels, the ones that sell for 400-1000 ussd each. Most of my friends are premium subscribers, and own parcels dotted about the grid. But you just assume that all the "gimps" who want AR Clickbaits banned from AA rated regions are "filthy-free-2-play riff-raff". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 hours ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: Legal, illegal, doesn't matter a tiny bit when it comes to the real problem that can break a company's back in a heartbeat. Corporate image. Destroy that, and you don't need any laws or legalese. When a big enough group of very vocal people come to the impression that SL runs under the headline "Join the world - your perversion is already waiting for you!" no lawyer will help anymore. And a little reminder: one person here in this forum, who attacks, insults and sprews hatred against kid avatars constantly and repeatedly said it herself about her community: we are perverts and want to live out our perversion without any kid avatars nearby. That in a climate where a book about two male penguins raising a chicken together leads to very real protests against libraries. No, this whole thing is not about sexual ***** being illegal. It is about the image of SL. But if we want to talk about legal aspects, lets talk about the real *giant* elephant in the room. Forget about the legality of any content - look at the accessibility! While many content not being illegal, having it easily accessible without any age verification actually *is* illegal in many places. Oh, and international law was mentioned. In my place of residence it is extremely illegal to show, glorify, promote and deal with WW2 related nazi stuff. SS uniforms, swastikas, running a virtual SS brigade. Big trouble ahead. Don't worry. They did mention age verification may be coming. 😁 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Starberry Passion said: I've already said that I did not believe the blog from the Medium, because there was not a lot of evidence to back up what was said, outside of a bunch of store items and avatars just at a beach. I don't believe the allegations were real and I believe it was one big troll to get everyone upset and Linden Lab for some reason or another. Either they were trying to make LL lose Residents, get it shut down or thought it would make people quit. This is my opinion. But It got a lot of attention and probably overseas and because linden don't want to upset its partners, they are putting a censorship over child avatars. Oh I get that totally, but there are other ways and better ones to deal with that, if they actually listened to its consumer base. Not react to it. As I said already, if you watch enough angry Karen police cam content on Youtube, then compare it to a majority of the "strong sisterhood" you see on here, you understand the system of intolerance . Again no misogyny, truth!! Others will be affected, that's it in a nutshell. Be careful what you wish for and who you side with, they be happy to turn on your when it suits. No loyalties here!! But with better policing and better rules for all, yeah its doable. But certainly not like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 52 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: The amount of straight people who were firing off a huge amount of anti LGBTQ speech was disgusting You DARE say that after branding a sizable percentage of SL's LGBTQ population as "gimps" and not so subtly accusing them of being "free-2-play riff-raff". 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyJoanne Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 51 minutes ago, Grayson Blakewell said: Yes but that too is under duress, if you look carefully there is nowhere to complain even if you did not agree. They would tell you to go inworld and place an inworld report if there was. How can one disagree if they have to agree to a TOS to even get a complaint in. And indeed, people have rights to complain, why should they lose assets and money just because a company makes you sign it under a form of duress? Its totally contrary ! There is NO duress. You agree, or you go away. SL is neither a necessity or a human right. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: You DARE say that after branding a sizable percentage of SL's LGBTQ population as "gimps" and not so subtly accusing them of being "free-2-play riff-raff". Nobody did that, you not reading, I am gay, I was expressing how others were stating that. You don't read, again another anger laden trigger happy retort from the stereotypes. Nobody stated LGBTQ were free to play "gimps" either, your words, not mine!! Seems you are projecting a lot here. But again most of you types do, used to that. People like you are the problem, sure not other people. Did we just not talk about angry, aggressive and intolerant people. But Thank You for backing up that claim. Edited May 7 by Grayson Blakewell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson Blakewell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) But your money is !! And it is forced yes, if you disagree with something, you have a right to air a complaint. It is a human right or should be, if you are lucky to live in a country of rights. Edited May 7 by Grayson Blakewell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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