Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Thanks again! I also forgot that the people who keep bringing it up, seemingly out of the blue, could also be trolling for responses. * critical thinking fail! * I'll be honest I very rarely ever even think of that! I usually just take people at face value, all that suspicion and doubt just gives me anxiety! 😅 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: Yeah, the average Asian woman is 5'1" to 5'2" average breast size is A cup to B cup, just like global average and compared to U.S. women, who average at 177Lbs, Asian women average around 122Lbs American Women, however, isn't that taller on Average because the average American woman is 5'3" 5'4". Japan, however, is Ranked at 118 in height, while America is I think 47? Well SL isn't real life and our avatars don't look like adult avatars if we model them around this criteria. So, while it may be true in RL it doesn't translate to SL at all. Not sure why people aren't getting that. Edited May 6 by Kathlen Onyx 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Thanks again! I also forgot that the people who keep bringing it up, seemingly out of the blue, could also be trolling for responses. * critical thinking fail! * I'll be honest I very rarely ever even think of that! I usually just take people at face value, all that suspicion and doubt just gives me anxiety! 😅 Hmmm...yeah...it can be easy to slip into thinking that because somebody bugs you they must be doing it on purpose to bug you!  ie, trolling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: 5 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: Yeah, the average Asian woman is 5'1" to 5'2" average breast size is A cup to B cup, just like global average and compared to U.S. women, who average at 177Lbs, Asian women average around 122Lbs American Women, however, isn't that taller on Average because the average American woman is 5'3" 5'4". Japan, however, is Ranked at 118 in height, while America is I think 47? Expand  Well SL isn't real life and our avatars don't look like adult avatars if we model them around this criteria. So, while it may be true in RL it doesn't translate to SL at all. Not sure why people aren't getting that. Why would this not translate to SL at all? For me it seems logical that it would... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Well SL isn't real life and our avatars don't look like adult avatars if we model them around this criteria. So, while it may be true in RL it doesn't translate to SL at all. Not sure why people aren't getting that. They don't look like adult avatars to you but your perception isn't really relevant is it?! Demanding that everyone conform to your definition of what an adult should look like when there are residents from all over the world with many different cultural perceptions is extremely narrow minded. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Why would this not translate to SL at all? For me it seems logical that it would... I'm not going over it again for you. Read the previous 153 pages to find out why not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Why would this not translate to SL at all? For me it seems logical that it would... I'm not going over it again for you. Read the previous 153 pages to find out why not. My heart is broken ♥ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: Why would this not translate to SL at all? For me it seems logical that it would... It's like Everything else real is allowed to translate to sl scept height. Then they're like "this isn't real." If it isn't real to them then no reason to get upset over it, so why did they reply in the first place? I don't understand. They're trying to make second life realistic, many people talking about I.Ding people, getting mad about real life things but this gets "it isn't real life." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: They don't look like adult avatars to you but your perception isn't really relevant is it?! Demanding that everyone conform to your definition of what an adult should look like when there are residents from all over the world with many different cultural perceptions is extremely narrow minded. I am not demanding anything. I even stated that I wouldn't AR anyone unless they were 1. An avatar that looked like a child in an Adult region or 2. An avatar that looked like a child on a nude beach. However, I have now changed my criteria for what and who I will be sending in an AR. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Mote Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Thanks again! I also forgot that the people who keep bringing it up, seemingly out of the blue, could also be trolling for responses. * critical thinking fail! * Glancing at an etymology dictionary, the word does seem to fit much of the thread quite well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydelle Zanzibar Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 2 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Well SL isn't real life and our avatars don't look like adult avatars if we model them around this criteria. So, while it may be true in RL it doesn't translate to SL at all. Not sure why people aren't getting that. Some people work really hard to make their avatar look JUST like their real life self. I'd guess those people will have a stronger reaction to being told they dont look "right" weather its cause they are too short, too flat chested, too fat too thin or whatever. I had an alt like that because i dated someone Long Distance and we could meet in SL sometimes for a virtual "date" evening. I'm not.. what that word someone brought up? FIctosexual, so i wanted to feel more connected to RL. If someone makes an avatar like that and is seen as a child, it would ruin the whole idea. DIfferent people make avatars for different reasons. For example I like being a kid, I get to behave in ways adults see as childish, jumping on trampolines, spinning in circles for hours, and skipping around instead of running. It's fun.  You shouldn't try to be the avatar police telling people what to model their avatar around. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said: 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Why would this not translate to SL at all? For me it seems logical that it would... It's like Everything else real is allowed to translate to sl scept height. Then they're like "this isn't real." If it isn't real to them then no reason to get upset over it, so why did they reply in the first place? I don't understand. They're trying to make second life realistic, many people talking about I.Ding people, getting mad about real life things but this gets "it isn't real life." It seems like cherry picking doesn't it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIN Rain Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Just as a bot account is able to self-identify as a scripted agent - why hasn't the Lab implemented the ability for anyone who wishes to identify their account as "represents as under 18"? it could even be included as a checkbox when next agreeing to a new TOS and then accessible/editable in the dashboard. The benefit would be that as the Lab says in the FAQ: "We are relying on the community to use their best judgment to determine if they are using a child avatar or not" so by providing a checkbox, it could be a clear indicator in one's profile that the account represents as under 18. (the aim is to help reduce some of the ambiguity associated with the age of mid to late teens/early adults) Further to this, when the Lab implemented both "Server Side Baking (SSB)" for System Avatars and later "Bakes On Mesh BOM" for Mesh Avatars - would it now give them the ability to insert their own "Modesty" layer near to the top of the stack? (sure it'll only work with SLUV and SSB/BOM enabled bodies and would still have to allow an alpha layer to over-ride it, but it might help to take the onus away from skin/body creators and allow the Lab a way to clearly define what a Modestly layer should look like) Coupling this Lab implemented Modesty layer with the "represents as under 18" Checkbox could be a way toggle the Modesty Layer and provide a way forward (preferably as an OPT IN implementation) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 18 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: I'll be honest I very rarely ever even think of that! I usually just take people at face value, all that suspicion and doubt just gives me anxiety! 😅 You don't hit General Discussion often enough! We get trolling sock puppets here! It's truly something to watch.  2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sydelle Zanzibar said: Some people work really hard to make their avatar look JUST like their real life self. I'd guess those people will have a stronger reaction to being told they dont look "right" weather its cause they are too short, too flat chested, too fat too thin or whatever. I had an alt like that because i dated someone Long Distance and we could meet in SL sometimes for a virtual "date" evening. I'm not.. what that word someone brought up? FIctosexual, so i wanted to feel more connected to RL. If someone makes an avatar like that and is seen as a child, it would ruin the whole idea. DIfferent people make avatars for different reasons. For example I like being a kid, I get to behave in ways adults see as childish, jumping on trampolines, spinning in circles for hours, and skipping around instead of running. It's fun.  You shouldn't try to be the avatar police telling people what to model their avatar around. This is exactly why I try to make my avatar not look like me. I don't want to be picked on for the way I look irl. 10 minutes ago, SIN Rain said: Just as a bot account is able to self-identify as a scripted agent - why hasn't the Lab implemented the ability for anyone who wishes to identify their account as "represents as under 18"? it could even be included as a checkbox when next agreeing to a new TOS and then accessible/editable in the dashboard. The benefit would be that as the Lab says in the FAQ: "We are relying on the community to use their best judgment to determine if they are using a child avatar or not" so by providing a checkbox, it could be a clear indicator in one's profile that the account represents as under 18. (the aim is to help reduce some of the ambiguity associated with the age of mid to late teens/early adults) Further to this, when the Lab implemented both "Server Side Baking (SSB)" for System Avatars and later "Bakes On Mesh BOM" for Mesh Avatars - would it now give them the ability to insert their own "Modesty" layer near to the top of the stack? (sure it'll only work with SLUV and SSB/BOM enabled bodies and would still have to allow an alpha layer to over-ride it, but it might help to take the onus away from skin/body creators and allow the Lab a way to clearly define what a Modestly layer should look like) Coupling this Lab implemented Modesty layer with the "represents as under 18" Checkbox could be a way toggle the Modesty Layer and provide a way forward (preferably as an OPT IN implementation) Many play multiple avatars on the same account. I switch between avatars of various types multiple times per day, it's the whole concept that drew me to SL in the first place. This would negate all of that. Plus it doesn't solve the issue, would someone who wants to skirt really check a box to tell everyone their underage, I doubt it. That could even be an out for them. "But I didn't check the under 18 box, that's why I'm an adult." Edited May 6 by MissSweetViolet Spelling corrections. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: I am not demanding anything. I even stated that I wouldn't AR anyone unless they were 1. An avatar that looked like a child in an Adult region or 2. An avatar that looked like a child on a nude beach. Feel free to substitute the word "Expecting" for "Demanding" if it makes you feel any better but the point still remains that you're stating anyone that models their avatars on the RL proportions is essentially not an adult avatar which is imposing your perceptions on everyone else. 18 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: However, I have now changed my criteria for what and who I will be sending in an AR. Honestly, given your stated criteria on what constitutes a non-adult avatar, I'm not particularly worried about who you AR, since false reports will most likely be ignored. Edited May 6 by Fluffy Sharkfin typos n stuff 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 minute ago, MissSweetViolet said: This exactly why I try to make my avatar not look like me. I don't want to be picked for the way I look irl. Â True. A lot of people do tend to get cruel and nasty here, which I've experienced trying to love my body, in rl and on second life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: It's like Everything else real is allowed to translate to sl scept height. Then they're like "this isn't real." If it isn't real to them then no reason to get upset over it, so why did they reply in the first place? I don't understand. They're trying to make second life realistic, many people talking about I.Ding people, getting mad about real life things but this gets "it isn't real life." It's not at all about height for me. You've said it yourself,.multiple times. Asian woman look younger. Yes, they do but how young is too young to look like an adult.in SL. I don't care if your avatar is 6 feet tall. If she looks like an Asian teenager, people might think she's an Asian teenager less than 18.  It really is that simple. She would be fine in most of SL. Put her on some adult furniture with a average size male? People might AR. That's all people have been saying. Do you, boo. Just don't be surprised when people question. Edited May 6 by Rowan Amore 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: You don't hit General Discussion often enough! We get trolling sock puppets here! It's truly something to watch.  It's true I really don't come around that often, sadly life doesn't always afford me the opportunity to indulge in SL or the forums as much as I'd like.  I try not to post reactively though so trolls usually have a hard time ruffling my feathers. Threads like this however are a minefield because there's some very valid points on both sides and a lot of strong feelings about both the intent behind the new TOS and the precise implementation. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: You don't hit General Discussion often enough! We get trolling sock puppets here! It's truly something to watch.  It's really more fun to watch in SL when the 6 different avatars claim they are different people but in reality are the same and they come up with elaborate stories to explain things.  2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 17 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said: Glancing at an etymology dictionary, the word does seem to fit much of the thread quite well Not the "internet troll" meaning intended. Are you new, or..trolling? 😹 Google's definition: "An internet troll is someone who intentionally posts or comments online to upset others, or to provoke emotional responses that disrupt civil discussion. Trolls may use inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments, or perform other disruptive content. They may also attack people for the sake of creating an argument, whether it's on Twitter or during a Q&A session at an online conference." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 9 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: Feel free to substitute the word "Expecting" for "Demanding" if it makes you feel any better but the point still remains that you're stating anyone that models their avatars on the RL proportions is essentially not an adult avatar which is imposing your perceptions on everyone else.  Since LL has given no criteria whatsoever on what constitutes an under 18 avatar, we're only left with our own opinions biased as they may be.  6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 11 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: It's true I really don't come around that often, sadly life doesn't always afford me the opportunity to indulge in SL or the forums as much as I'd like. Don't hang around here too long...you seem very nice and I don't want to see you corrupted 😉 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Just now, Rowan Amore said: Since LL has given no criteria whatsoever on what constitutes an under 18 avatar, we're only left with our own opinions biased as they may be.  Unfortunately at the current time I have to agree that we are all in the dark and have nothing but conjecture, which is why having this circular discussion where we all voice our opinions on what does and doesn't look like an adult in our eyes is entirely pointless since it's not our eyes that will be making the final determination. I'll admit that, as someone who's been using realistically sized adult avatars for almost 20 years, I am being overly defensive and I apologise to @Kathlen Onyx for being so confrontational in my response but I really don't think that we should all be forced to conform to some arbitrary standard based on the common perception of what an SL adult avatar looks like because that standard is already so broken it's laughable. LL are, unfortunately for them I suspect, going to have to provide some clear definitions to go along with these new rules, if not it's just going to be chaos. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Maybe for temporary use, LL could release new senra skins for their mesh bodies that comply with the TOS. Then release 2 more body sizes to represent toddler and child type bodies with skins that have undies. The adult senra bodies they have now can be used for 13-17. They just need a skin with modesty coverage. They gave every other creater a couple months to make all new stuff, so they should be able to make stuff that fast, as well. Right? If child avatars use their current heads, they will still look like themselves until "real creators" get a chance to catch up to the surprise change to the TOS. (/me ducks and runs watching the skies for a lightning bolt knowing that some Linden or Mole created that Senra head and released it as acceptable.) It won't replace all the clothes people bought for their current child bodies, but it would be temporary and fulfill the requirements of the new TOS long enough for the real creators to catch up with new skins so you can get back to your wardrobe as soon as possible. If LL makes a modesty skin for a Senra can it be put on other bodies? That might help with the transition, too. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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